Jacob Young

bac2therac

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Young has at times been the difference maker in our games on both ends of the court. No one disputes his value to this team. He may be the quickest player in the Big 10. Young has always been guilty of overplaying his hand. Tonight we was pretty bad at decision making in his time and alot of turnovers in parts of the game that set the tone. For petes sake he couldnt even make a layup at the beginning when the defender had given up. Without 100% focus, we are not winning with Young. I have seen enough of his good and bad games. We need him to be on

So in the game thread alot of posters noted that Young was not in the game in that stretch of 7-8 minutes where RU got back in. It was largely Mulcahy, Geo, Myles, Ron and Tez. That combo played most of the rest of the game except for that illfated sub for Cliff that likely doomed RU. Hear me out on my argument. Pike built this team up what that core of players last year minus Paul although I think he did start a few times. RU had that hunger. Jacob struggled early in the season and then little by little became a force. So much a force this year that he was starting and taking over games but did we rely on Young too much. Did we rely on JY to always be on and focused and thus when he wasnt on, it was hurting us.

Listen I do not have the answers but it seems like we relied a little too much of fools gold with JY and Harper hitting at good clip early. JY is a great defender and can cause turnovers leading to easy transition but is our offense hurt by relying on him. I saw in our mini comeback the ball movement was better. RU was actually able to get inside with ease and make Penn State pay. Does JY cause a problem in our offense which hurts getting the ball to Myles and not letting Harper get spacing. This is just one game but again its telling Pike went with that rotation threst of the game.

Would like to get feedback on this. Maybe Pike needs to get back to basics with his rotation. Maybe we need to shorten with less Caleb who has really not been good overall since he came back. Young certainly needs to be a part of that but perhaps coming off the bench as it seems like RU is getting into sloppy start after sloppy start. Remember the MSU game where they played at a stupid ass ridiculous pace with turnovers by JY

I do not want to use this thread as a JY bash, there are certainly multiple issues with this team right now but I think getting the right combo and rotation of JY with others is one of the major sticking points we have.
 

RUBlackout

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Young is a spark to this team and without him we don’t win our first 7 games.
That said, I think he is a 6th man for that spark off the bench to change the pace of the game.
he has been ver my good to us.

By the way, his name is Jacob
 
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SleepingGiantIsAwake

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My preference, with a full roster available (eg Geo) would be to have JY play off the ball (not PG) or come off the bench.

No doubt JY earned the right to start, but IMO, I think we play better as a team with the aforementioned.
 
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RU848789

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Jacob. I love what he brings to the table, but agree he can also be inconsistent and make bad decisions/plays. I thought he had kind of gotten past that, but no. That's where coaching comes in and Pike seems to be struggling on all counts wih that. We're not a top ten team, but we're not as bad as we've shown the last 5 games, either. But the time for excuses is over, as our backs are against the wall. We could win anywhere from 3 to 7 more games, IMO. 7 would be awesome and get us a 9-10 seed, while 3 would mean the honeymoon is really over for Pike (not fired, but big pressure to do much better next year).
 

NewJerseyHawk

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If you subtract the steal before the ends of both 1st halves vs Wisconsin and PSU, you might have something.

But I don't think he's is the issue. I think in this specific game, it was more Penn State and Mulcahy took shots that were there...once those 2 3s went in, his defense went up...he hustled for that loose ball, which led to the Mathis dunk.

Once that dunk happened, they started making shots and energy went up....

The last 9 minutes looked like the RU of the 1st 7-8 games of the year.

The roster still needs Caleb to space the floor but Jacob is looking to score...when those layups are missed, it's just deflating. I think RU will be back on track, the last 9 minutes of actual effort is what Pike needs to figure why there's no sense of urgency....it was only there when they started making shots....when they miss, they start sagging and it's not the same roster.

Young is the only one that can get to the rim, so I think we ride it out with him. The talent is there....
 

Pils86

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When Pike pulled all the starters, I would have left Young in and not put in Palm. I like Palm's effort but he is just not ready for this level yet.
 

bac2therac

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What I would do. Revert to last year lineup:

- Have Jacob come off bench

- Don’t overplay Caleb. He s a 10-15 mpg player. He’s a role player

-

spot on and I have been saying that about Caleb forever when peeps wanted Caleb playing 30 minutes a game. It seems like Pike has fallen in love with HAVING to automatically put Caleb in rather than trying to put him in at the right time.
 
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Mr. Gerbz

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What’s with JY and his clear path layups? It’s like he doesn’t know if to dunk or not. I can think of 3 this season.
 

Scarlet Shack

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One of the common denominator we have When our offense is an issue is the ball tends to stick too much in one persons hands....and another common denominator when the offense is good is the ball is moving ...don’t over look the fast that offensive stagination and lack of ball movement starts when screens are ineffective

in a different post, I think we need to move Harper to the three for 20 of his 30 minutes, and let myles and cliff play 25-27 minutes a game...with Oscar and Reiber filling the remaining 15-20 minutes at the 4 and 5

playing bigger helps with defense and boards and gets back to our identity ...but it does something else. Bigger guys set better screens. Both on the Ball and away from the ball. Think that is a big issue when the offense stagnates ...Too many Guys not capable of setting the screens and we end up with no ball spacing advantage as the shot clock winds down ....

thibk we need to play bigger ...even if that means sacrificing a perimeter shooter ....
 

BigEastPhil

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spot on and I have been saying that about Caleb forever when peeps wanted Caleb playing 30 minutes a game. It seems like Pike has fallen in love with HAVING to automatically put Caleb in rather than trying to put him in at the right time.
He’s a role player. He ll have the unusual game when he does well but Pike should not be overplaying him extensively. His profit margin dilutes with additional minutes.
 
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Greene Rice FIG

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I’ll be honest I don’t know where I stand with him. I think he needs to have the ball in his hands less. We need him defensively. He can be dynamite for us on offense but can also be kryptonite. I don’t see geo and Jacob effective together.
 

BigEastPhil

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I’ll be honest I don’t know where I stand with him. I think he needs to have the ball in his hands less. We need him defensively. He can be dynamite for us on offense but can also be kryptonite. I don’t see geo and Jacob effective together.
They’re not. They don’t play off each other well. Need Jacob off the bench to give us a spark.
 
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RW90

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I’ll be honest I don’t know where I stand with him. I think he needs to have the ball in his hands less. We need him defensively. He can be dynamite for us on offense but can also be kryptonite. I don’t see geo and Jacob effective together.
I think JY plays much better defense and it isn't close.
 

RU_kidding_me

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I think majority of the problem is obscenely poor shooting. Doesn’t matter who is out there if they are going to shoot 30%. It’s a night and day difference with this team when the shots start to fall.

A lot of people have been downplaying the bad foul shooting, but that gets in their heads and becomes demoralizing and effects other aspects of their game when things are not going their way.
 

kcg88

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I think majority of the problem is obscenely poor shooting. Doesn’t matter who is out there if they are going to shoot 30%. It’s a night and day difference with this team when the shots start to fall.

A lot of people have been downplaying the bad foul shooting, but that gets in their heads and becomes demoralizing and effects other aspects of their game when things are not going their way.
We shot 7-17 on three pointers tonight. The problem is when guys brick easy layups or just throw the ball near the rim as if a magnet will pull it into the net. So many undisciplined throw-it-up-there shots.
 
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Duff366

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I see Caleb and Paul pretty much equal right now, slight edge to Paul. So I am ok with either Caleb or Paul getting a reduced role. Paul does seem a little more disciplined, when he plays well he is a plus player. Caleb can provide better offense at times than Paul and can be a plus player when he has confidence. They both hustle and can rebound.

I am all for shortening the bench for some chemistry and maybe going with a taller line up for rebounding. Maybe bring back Young as the 6th man if he can accept that role.

Miss Yeboah like crazy. Pike needed to replace him with a veteran inside presence.
 
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goru7

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Interesting topic. Jacob is way too talented to not be a part of what we do and has to continue to attack the glass. He should be practicing driving layups and 10 foot teardrops. The defense knew Corey was going to drive but he always got back to his right hand and made most drives to the hole. Jacob in the MSU game and tonight is missing layups he has no right missing. He is too talented. He has to get that worked out.
The other day in a thread I said I do not think Geo and Jacob should play together. I thought Geo was really struggling off the ball and if you subbed him in 7-8 minutes in and let him run the offense and give Jacob a blow , it would get Geo going again. We saw some of that in the comeback tonight. I do not think playing Jacob , Geo and Paul together works. Pike’s rotations and who he plays and who he sits for too long is bad , almost real pathetic and his playing of Reiber late against Iowa and playing Cliff instead of Myles tonite was just bad. Like you I can make an argument it cost us both games although not getting a damn defensive rebound tonight was a screwup by the players. All of them. Jacob I think can be taken out and put back in in 2-3 minutes , not buried for 6-7 minutes. One thing I do not like about Pike is he buries players that make a couple of bad plays. He does it to Montez , he did it to Caleb last year , and he did it to Jacob tonight. He might have made a difference defensively down the stretch.
 
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SBP

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IMO
1) The bad far outweighs the good with him. 2) Many times he plays out of control.
3) The turnover points he gives up, counterbalances the point production.
4) selfish drives, and me first attitude
5) ball hog
6) freezes other players out

He’s a spark, and role player, not a starter.
 

Night Man

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Not sure why number zero is getting a free pass tonight as our senior captain.
Yeah, this was one of his worst games in a while. However, I think something may have clicked that the stepback long 2 from him is just not a good use of a possession this year when he's not money. He looked a little better late.
 

bac2therac

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Mathis was particularly terrible tonight and he cannot hit free throws, thats another thing to factor in as well. He appears to play better with JY than Geo but he is just taking shots that he has no business putting up
 

RU_kidding_me

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We shot 7-17 on three pointers tonight. The problem is when guys brick easy layups or just throw the ball near the rim as if a magnet will pull it into the net. So many undisciplined throw-it-up-there shots.
I agree, not focusing all on 3’s. Bricking break away lay ups and air-balling 2 foot floaters is obscenely bad shooting I am talking about. Not sure but it seems like their overall FG % has got to be well under 40% lately.
Seems to me like their bad shooting is causing them to second guess themselves and is altering their game leading to more of the bail out fade aways and forced blind drives to the basket. When they play with confidence they seem to be a step ahead of the defenders but they are tentative and that split second of indecision I think is really hurting them
 
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Greene Rice FIG

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Jacob needs to think pass 1st when penetrating. He needs to play 25 minutes per game. He brings it defensively. We desperately need that.
 
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Greene Rice FIG

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Mathis was particularly terrible tonight and he cannot hit free throws, thats another thing to factor in as well. He appears to play better with JY than Geo but he is just taking shots that he has no business putting up
That backwards fling can never happen.
 

bac2therac

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I really liked those 3s they took during the comeback...I think at one point we hit 6 of 8 treys. We were smooth, we had Harper getting to the rim and easy passes to Myles....perhaps catching PSU flat footed because they were expected JY and our stagnant one on one offense
 

RUBlackout

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We need to shorten our Rotation. Lock it down to 8 people total for now. The constant rotations Pike does makes me want to throw my remote through the TV as it kills momentum. Look at when Geo hit the 3 tonight and then he does a massive change..crushed it.

my starting lineup:
Harper
Myles
Mulcahy
Mathis
Geo

first off bench Young and that is when you start to press and move to a zone to change the pace of the game for transition and steals where he is best at. You sub in Cliff at that point also within the 2-3 zone so he isn’t exposed 1:1 on defense right now.

you use McConnell to spell certain players here or there and go with hot hands or defensive momentum. If you have McConnell and Mathis In together than you go man to man.

i would also like to see is play Cliff and Myles together at some point to create mismatches and get the back inside.
 
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bac2therac

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I think if we were truly a good team headed for something we would have won that game....we got it to 4 with plenty of time

if was a 5 point game with 5:13 left and a 4 point game with 4:16 after a Geo 3, We gave up a rebound and let PSU hit a 3 pushing it to 7 but Ron hit a 3 to get it to 4

Honestly we should have won, two possession game plenty of time and we had absolutely zero on defense....just like we did vs Wisconsin late, just like we did vs Iowa...no stops common theme in those 3 losses
 

bac2therac

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We need to shorten our Rotation. Lock it down to 8 people total for now. The constant rotations Pike does makes me want to throw my remote through the TV as it kills momentum. Look at when Geo hit the 3 tonight and then he does a massive change..crushed it.

my starting lineup:
Harper
Myles
Mulcahy
Mathis
Geo

first off bench Young and that is when you start to press and move to a zone to change the pace of the game for transition and steals where he is best at. You sub in Cliff at that point also within the 2-3 zone so he isn’t exposed 1:1 on defense right now.

you use McConnell to spell certain players here or there and go with hot hands or defensive momentum. If you have McConnell and Mathis In together than you go man to man.

i would also like to see is play Cliff and Myles together at some point to create mismatches and get the back inside.

agree,,..back to basics
 

bac2therac

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the key is to use JY the most effectively, it seems like this is a pile on, he isnt the reason why RU is struggling but maybe he can be the answer
 
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RUBlackout

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We wouldn’t even have 7 wins without young...you take the good and the bad but what I have seen is that he is playing really well and just having some lapses here and there. Much more confident with him on the floor.
it was heartbreaking watch us miss that rebound on the second missed FT where we were only down 4. Just killer.
 

cm_13

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I really liked those 3s they took during the comeback...I think at one point we hit 6 of 8 treys. We were smooth, we had Harper getting to the rim and easy passes to Myles....perhaps catching PSU flat footed because they were expected JY and our stagnant one on one offense
Agreed. They were capitalizing on some good looks, and even some of the not so good ones were starting to fall at that point (specifically that 3 Harper sank from the top of the arc with the shot clock expiring).

It was also nice to see him start attacking late. There were stretches early in the season where he would get to the basket seemingly at will and finish through contact and no one really had an answer for him.

Also really liked some of the two man game Harper and Myles had going down the stretch. Myles had a couple of absolute dimes to Harper including that set they love to run where Harper fakes like he’s going to come to the top and then flashes to the basket for the lob, and then a nice play where Harper penetrated, drew two defenders and found a wide open Myles fading to the basket.

The offense just looked so much more fluid at that point in the game, night and day from what they did in the first half and the first ten minutes of the second half.
 

bac2therac

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We wouldn’t even have 7 wins without young...you take the good and the bad but what I have seen is that he is playing really well and just having some lapses here and there. Much more confident with him on the floor.
it was heartbreaking watch us miss that rebound on the second missed FT where we were only down 4. Just killer.

what you say is true, but is RU putting the best foot forward early with JY starting....just going off memory, it doesnt seem like we have that many good starts, maybe at maryland but most of our starts have been slow or getting down big early
 

RUsojo

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Young has at times been the difference maker in our games on both ends of the court. No one disputes his value to this team. He may be the quickest player in the Big 10. Young has always been guilty of overplaying his hand. Tonight we was pretty bad at decision making in his time and alot of turnovers in parts of the game that set the tone. For petes sake he couldnt even make a layup at the beginning when the defender had given up. Without 100% focus, we are not winning with Young. I have seen enough of his good and bad games. We need him to be on

So in the game thread alot of posters noted that Young was not in the game in that stretch of 7-8 minutes where RU got back in. It was largely Mulcahy, Geo, Myles, Ron and Tez. That combo played most of the rest of the game except for that illfated sub for Cliff that likely doomed RU. Hear me out on my argument. Pike built this team up what that core of players last year minus Paul although I think he did start a few times. RU had that hunger. Jacob struggled early in the season and then little by little became a force. So much a force this year that he was starting and taking over games but did we rely on Young too much. Did we rely on JY to always be on and focused and thus when he wasnt on, it was hurting us.

Listen I do not have the answers but it seems like we relied a little too much of fools gold with JY and Harper hitting at good clip early. JY is a great defender and can cause turnovers leading to easy transition but is our offense hurt by relying on him. I saw in our mini comeback the ball movement was better. RU was actually able to get inside with ease and make Penn State pay. Does JY cause a problem in our offense which hurts getting the ball to Myles and not letting Harper get spacing. This is just one game but again its telling Pike went with that rotation threst of the game.

Would like to get feedback on this. Maybe Pike needs to get back to basics with his rotation. Maybe we need to shorten with less Caleb who has really not been good overall since he came back. Young certainly needs to be a part of that but perhaps coming off the bench as it seems like RU is getting into sloppy start after sloppy start. Remember the MSU game where they played at a stupid ass ridiculous pace with turnovers by JY

I do not want to use this thread as a JY bash, there are certainly multiple issues with this team right now but I think getting the right combo and rotation of JY with others is one of the major sticking points we have.
Good topic - short answer for me is we have to ride with Young in the starting five and he actually needs to be playing MORE minutes (he's playing a lot already - so really this more to the point that it's important not to abandon him in game after a short rough patch). There are a few misconceptions about Young...

First, the Young turn over narrative is actually a trick on the eye, and it's because his usage rate is highest on the team this season. It would probably surprise people to know that his TOV% per 100 is 7th on the team - for context Paul is third - if you remove Reiber and Mag Paul has the highest TOV% (not bashing Paul).

Young's assist percentage is by far the highest on the team as well.

I think early in the year the ball movement on offense was better as a whole and Young was part of that. I'd like to get back to that. I think offensively we are really at a loss from direction from the staff on how to get going. And when that happens, we find ourselves down, and often Young probably feels really forced to push the tempo and make something happen.

The lay up thing is annoying because he's missed a few fast break layups as well looking back for contact from the trail defender.

Ultimately i think the opposite of what someone above said - and in the case of Young the GOOD far OUTWEIGHS the BAD. The defense is exceptional. He's the only one who can create half court penetration. He has the most assists on the team. His turnover is not cancerous. His eFG% is 52%.

I mean we really cannot be asking much more from JY IMO.

Tonight, if I'm Pike I bring Young back around the 4 min mark. But, Pike finally road a hot lineup for once so in that sense, in a bubble, I understand the move.