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Joey Downes on RU Basketball Culture

I don’t buy these kinds of homer feel-good analyses, even from insiders. Coaches all across America past and present have similar models and say the same things but what it comes down to is getting better players.

Does Rutgers have a better culture than Minnesota ? Does Purdue have the best culture and will their culture worsen when Edey leaves ?

How’s Schiano’s Chop culture working out ? Or remember F.A.M.I.L.Y. ?

There’s nothing interesting or insightful there. It’s just vapid internet blather/filler.
 
I don’t buy these kinds of feel-good analyses, even from insiders. Coaches all across America past and present have similar models and say the same things but what it comes down to is getting better players.

Does Rutgers have a better culture than Minnesota ? Does Purdue have the best culture and will their culture worsen when Edey leaves ?

There’s nothing interesting or insightful there.
did you not see the way Minnesota was playing defense yesterday? Would that have ever flown with Pike at any point in his Rutgers coaching career? You don’t think that same group of guys for Minnesota would’ve played with a different type of defensive intensity under pike? Culture 100 percent matters
 
I don’t buy these kinds of homer feel-good analyses, even from insiders. Coaches all across America past and present have similar models and say the same things but what it comes down to is getting better players.

Does Rutgers have a better culture than Minnesota ? Does Purdue have the best culture and will their culture worsen when Edey leaves ?

How’s Schiano’s Chop culture working out ? Or remember F.A.M.I.L.Y. ?

There’s nothing interesting or insightful there. It’s just vapid internet blather/filler.
Must suck to live in such a miserable glass half empty world

Douche
 
did you not see the way Minnesota was playing defense yesterday? Would that have ever flown with Pike at any point in his Rutgers coaching career? You don’t think that same group of guys for Minnesota would’ve played with a different type of defensive intensity under pike? Culture 100 percent matters
Geo, it so funny that you said this. I was thinking the exact same thing last night watching the game. Minnesota's defense was non existent last night. They had zero sense of commitment or pride on D. That all comes from coaching.
 
did you not see the way Minnesota was playing defense yesterday? Would that have ever flown with Pike at any point in his Rutgers coaching career? You don’t think that same group of guys for Minnesota would’ve played with a different type of defensive intensity under pike? Culture 100 percent matters
I attribute that to stark talent deficit. Recently-departed #0 and #24 began the talent upgrade, maybe you remember them ha ha ha.

Did RU culture not make the trip to Iowa ? What happened to our culture when #4 and #22 didn’t play earlier this year ?

I’m not criticizing the coach, the players, or the culture. I’m saying what differentiates team success is talent and that story is sizzle, not steak.

It’s just wrong to suggest culture is a significant reason for increasing success. Someday our success will wane. Culture won’t be why.

What conference teams have poor culture ? Show your work.
 
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I attribute that to stark talent deficit. Recently-departed #0 and #24 began the talent upgrade, maybe you remember them ha ha ha.

Did RU culture not make the trip to Iowa ? What happened to our culture when #4 and #22 didn’t play earlier this year ?

I’m not criticizing the coach, the players, or the culture. I’m saying what differentiates team success is talent and that story is sizzle, not steak.

It’s just wrong to suggest culture is a significant reason for increasing success. Someday our success will wane. Culture won’t be why.

What conference teams have poor culture ? Show your work.
Pike was dealing with a ‘stark talent deficit’ when he got here, but you saw an immediate upgrade in effort, especially with regard to defense and rebounding. He established a culture that serves us well today, and is still paying dividends. We have an identity now, and it’s one that fosters winning.
 
did you not see the way Minnesota was playing defense yesterday? Would that have ever flown with Pike at any point in his Rutgers coaching career? You don’t think that same group of guys for Minnesota would’ve played with a different type of defensive intensity under pike? Culture 100 percent matters
Don't bother Geo, trust us, it's not worth even 30-seconds of your time he's a stubborn one lol!
 
Pike was dealing with a ‘stark talent deficit’ when he got here, but you saw an immediate upgrade in effort, especially with regard to defense and rebounding. He established a culture that serves us well today, and is still paying dividends. We have an identity now, and it’s one that fosters winning.
This. It was night and day when he got here. The fans noticed too and started coming back to the RAC. Did we still get overwhelmed on many nights, particularly in league? Sure, but you could see the complete change in effort. Going to games was fun again and not something that felt like an obligation because I paid for the tickets. I think Shelby just enjoys being a board contrarian and he knows he’s full of it many times.
 
I attribute that to stark talent deficit. Recently-departed #0 and #24 began the talent upgrade, maybe you remember them ha ha ha.

Did RU culture not make the trip to Iowa ? What happened to our culture when #4 and #22 didn’t play earlier this year ?

I’m not criticizing the coach, the players, or the culture. I’m saying what differentiates team success is talent and that story is sizzle, not steak.

It’s just wrong to suggest culture is a significant reason for increasing success. Someday our success will wane. Culture won’t be why.

What conference teams have poor culture ? Show your work.


I think you’re missing the point. Culture is what keeps and develops talent. Culture is why guys like cliff, mag, reiber, and palm stay in the program for 3 years when they easily could have found a bigger fish, more playing time, etc.. Did you see the ace Bailey commitment video? I think culture played a major role in his choice.
 
How keen ! Culture is measured by the standings. Purdue has the best culture this year, and the Alcindor and Walton teams had the best all-time culture.

The teams toward the bottom of the standings have equal or better talent but don't try very hard. I get it now.

Must not work like that in football though. Schiano's instilling of culture is unparalleled right ? Surprised no conference titles in his glorious career yet.
 
I completely understand work ethic, expectations, etc., and I promise you #0 would agree RU doesn't have a culture advantage over other teams either in any season or since Pike took over. That's ridiculous. Makes no sense.

Does Pike instill a specific brand or identity ? Absolutely. A specific culture, yes. But that is not why the program has improved. The assertion in the story attributing it to culture is nonsense, which is my only point. Every team has a culture, and most are perfectly suited to winning basketball but only with superior talent.

RU's rise is due to increasing talent, period.
 
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I don’t buy these kinds of homer feel-good analyses, even from insiders. Coaches all across America past and present have similar models and say the same things but what it comes down to is getting better players.

Does Rutgers have a better culture than Minnesota ? Does Purdue have the best culture and will their culture worsen when Edey leaves ?

How’s Schiano’s Chop culture working out ? Or remember F.A.M.I.L.Y. ?

There’s nothing interesting or insightful there. It’s just vapid internet blather/filler.
Everyone has these same things but actually implementing, and running a program by them are two different things.

Pike absolutely is a culture over winning guy. And that pays off in the long term.
 
I completely understand work ethic, expectations, etc., and I promise you #0 would agree RU doesn't have a culture advantage over other teams either in any season or since Pike took over. That's ridiculous. Makes no sense.

Does Pike instill a specific brand or identity ? Absolutely. A specific culture, yes. But that is not why the program has improved. The assertion in the story attributing it to culture is nonsense, which is my only point. Every team has a culture, and most are perfectly suited to winning basketball but only with superior talent.

RU's rise is due to increasing talent, period.
Increasing talent is showing up because we won. We won with underrated culture guys who bought in top to bottom. Now we can bring in elite players who fir the culture model. That is how long term success in any athletic program is created.
 
Not even a random guy. A significantly below replacement level poster.
I didn't know you were measuring our contributions with analytics. I need to be more careful around you. Never know when you can get traded to another board or designated for assignment. 😄
 
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Increasing talent is showing up because we won. We won with underrated culture guys who bought in top to bottom. Now we can bring in elite players who fir the culture model. That is how long term success in any athletic program is created.
I understand your logic, but i believe the opposite. No one has answered the ‘which teams’ cultures are poorest ?’ question because they’d first look at the standings to answer, which would disprove their view.
 
I completely understand work ethic, expectations, etc., and I promise you #0 would agree RU doesn't have a culture advantage over other teams either in any season or since Pike took over. That's ridiculous. Makes no sense.

Does Pike instill a specific brand or identity ? Absolutely. A specific culture, yes. But that is not why the program has improved. The assertion in the story attributing it to culture is nonsense, which is my only point. Every team has a culture, and most are perfectly suited to winning basketball but only with superior talent.

RU's rise is due to increasing talent, period.
This is flawed because the guy has been killed many times on this board for not recruiting better talent and relying too heavily on the development model. I have read numerous posts dismissing players early in their careers because they were supposedly under-the-radar recruits who would never cut it at this level. One particular favorite of mine was the thread suggesting Caleb would transfer down a level after his first year following his first Big 10 game. Another gem was the thread with folks being done with Mag earlier this season.

He has established a culture and identity here that requires hard work with a commitment to defense and unselfish basketball to earn playing time. No shortcuts, no excuses. I mean, one of our most highly rated recruits didn't buy in and he's gone after a year. You're doubling and tripling down on a poor argument because you like to be that guy,
 
Pete, which main players were cited here as over-recruited ?
Not sure I understand your question but I was clear in my post - out of the starting five Mag and Caleb. People have questioned his recruiting all the way from Simpson to Geo to EO. That has been a constant source of bitching here and now you’re trying to argue that he is rolling in talent that walked in the door and he and the culture he established had nothing to do with it. You’re as wrong as two left shoes.
 
You're missing the point like everyone else. I keep asking: point out a team with a weak culture. Culture doesn't lead to winning.

How come culture isn't working for Schiano ? Lack of talent. What's Purdue's culture ? Tell me all about the '96 Yankees culture while you are at it. Was it better than the Mets culture ?

What happened to the Popovich Spurs culture without Duncan, Robinson or later, Kawhii Leonard ?
 
You're missing the point like everyone else. I keep asking: point out a team with a weak culture. Culture doesn't lead to winning.

How come culture isn't working for Schiano ? Lack of talent. What's Purdue's culture ? Tell me all about the '96 Yankees culture while you are at it. Was it better than the Mets culture ?

What happened to the Popovich Spurs culture without Duncan, Robinson or later, Kawhii Leonard ?
Eh i tried to ignore but alright I’ll bite lol. Nebraska is the perfect example of a team with no culture. Last year their backcourt was arguably the most talented in the league. But when you keep having your entire roster transfer in and out, you don’t emphasize the little things it takes to win, you don’t emphasize staying out of trouble off the court, bad shit happens lol. I remember seeing their assistant coach laughing and joking after we snuck past them at their place last year. You would NEVER see a Rutgers coach do that after a loss.


The reason freshmen usually struggle: they aren’t used to the culture. They have no idea what it takes to win a college basketball game regardless of talent. The ones who adjust to the culture end up playing. Or sometimes in Kentucky’s case, the freshmen never adjust which is when they end up not being as good as people expect them to be.

Rutgers 1st year of Pike vs the year before. Basically all the same guys. culture change led to improvement. The list can really go on
 
did you not see the way Minnesota was playing defense yesterday? Would that have ever flown with Pike at any point in his Rutgers coaching career? You don’t think that same group of guys for Minnesota would’ve played with a different type of defensive intensity under pike? Culture 100 percent matters
*1,000,000
 
Eh i tried to ignore but alright I’ll bite lol. Nebraska is the perfect example of a team with no culture. Last year their backcourt was arguably the most talented in the league. But when you keep having your entire roster transfer in and out, you don’t emphasize the little things it takes to win, you don’t emphasize staying out of trouble off the court, bad shit happens lol. I remember seeing their assistant coach laughing and joking after we snuck past them at their place last year. You would NEVER see a Rutgers coach do that after a loss.


The reason freshmen usually struggle: they aren’t used to the culture. They have no idea what it takes to win a college basketball game regardless of talent. The ones who adjust to the culture end up playing. Or sometimes in Kentucky’s case, the freshmen never adjust which is when they end up not being as good as people expect them to be.

Rutgers 1st year of Pike vs the year before. Basically all the same guys. culture change led to improvement. The list can really go on
Geo - it's hard, but try to ignore him. He's an ill-informed troll, who has no understanding of the importance of culture in team sports and probably in the work world. It's no surprise that the companies that score best in profitability and other bottom line measures happen to be the ones with the best culture scores (see the link for an insight into the Towers-Watson culture surveys/results). Culture is critical to every cooperative endeavor.

https://www.corpmagazine.com/features/why-companies-should-do-culture-right/
 
Eh i tried to ignore but alright I’ll bite lol. Nebraska is the perfect example of a team with no culture. Last year their backcourt was arguably the most talented in the league. But when you keep having your entire roster transfer in and out, you don’t emphasize the little things it takes to win, you don’t emphasize staying out of trouble off the court, bad shit happens lol. I remember seeing their assistant coach laughing and joking after we snuck past them at their place last year. You would NEVER see a Rutgers coach do that after a loss.


The reason freshmen usually struggle: they aren’t used to the culture. They have no idea what it takes to win a college basketball game regardless of talent. The ones who adjust to the culture end up playing. Or sometimes in Kentucky’s case, the freshmen never adjust which is when they end up not being as good as people expect them to be.

Rutgers 1st year of Pike vs the year before. Basically all the same guys. culture change led to improvement. The list can really go on
Shelby, you’ve been eviscerated. Take a lap.
 
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did you not see the way Minnesota was playing defense yesterday? Would that have ever flown with Pike at any point in his Rutgers coaching career? You don’t think that same group of guys for Minnesota would’ve played with a different type of defensive intensity under pike? Culture 100 percent matters

Yes sur

To Add to your point and about your other post…- a good example

There was another #0 before you arrived here from pikes first year …talented player who we know transfered to UVa.

There was a couple of early November games In season 1….when the RAC crowds were small and early in the game , against lower out of confrence games , you would hear Coach Pike yell across the RAC (and I sit in 105 row B, a good 75 feet from pike ) when #0 would be sleepwalking on defense effort and rotation

“Wake uo #0”

And you never hear Pike yell like that now…..

He would yell it twice …and the third time , Mike Williams would come in two minutes into the game ….and #0 would have a seat on the bench for 5-6 minutes . This even happened once after #0 had a quick offensice start in the first four minutes …and sone people weee like “Huh???”

Pike has a great quote that I really appreciate …”I play the best and am fair to the rest “…..

And he expects the same from everyone or your not playing, no matter who you are….

It’s that level of expectation and consistency of applying the rules across the board that helps get the entire team and roster to buy in ….and when that happens , you get guys, in time , that all are on the same page. When you have that level of buy, it gives a team a chanxe , through repetition and hard work , a chance to become “connected “ on the court …and thsr does , in time , lead to better team basketball on the court and increase the chances for success .
 
never denied culture is a thing. am saying talent wins. I am sure there are plenty of F.A.M.I.L.Y (ha ha) and other admirable cultures out there, but what separates teams in the standings is talent.

Purdue has been the top team in the league 2 years in a row because of Edey, Ivey, etc. Does this mean Purdue's culture will collapse next year ? Losing teams can have laudable culture too. Speaking of us, JY, EO and MM transferred in the last few years. You can't cherry pick specific years without transfers to suggest great culture. Weak.

Anyhow, time to move on. Y'all can think what you want and I will believe our rise is from talent. What will you say in 5 years if Rutgers is on a downturn ? Culture problems ?
 
It’s not binary. Sure talent helps a lot. So does culture. Two things can be happening at the same time. As others have mentioned, Duke and Kentucky aren’t exactly performing at the level you’d expect if talent was the only indicator of success.
 
It’s not binary. Sure talent helps a lot. So does culture. Two things can be happening at the same time. As others have mentioned, Duke and Kentucky aren’t exactly performing at the level you’d expect if talent was the only indicator of success.
maybe you are non-binary, but....

yes, several factors. age/experience too, which we have in spades. and a loud gym. etc. but it's talent that matters most, by far.
 
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