Just remember we're a basketball school again!
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I'd say wrestling/lacrosse school before basketball school. If we post a winning record this year that'll change.
We might not be one now, but at least we can hope to be a basketball school. We're at least a year away even from having hope for football.
The minute Coach P loses a hoops game the masses don't think we "should" lose we will be a "football school" again.
I, for one, think Mr. Hobbs hired two HCs imminently qualified for their respective tasks and I will surely give them more than a year and a 1/6th to build their programs.
I, for one, think Mr. Hobbs hired two HCs imminently qualified for their respective tasks and I will surely give them more than a year and a 1/6th to build their programs.
This very well may become the case.
I like both Pikiell and Ash, and I think both hires had the potential to turn around our fortunes in their respective sports.
I think the potential is still very real for Pike, and we'll see what this season brings. For Ash, I think he missed his very narrow window of opportunity, and a poor hiring decision before we even saw the field may have triggered a domino effect that scuttled that potential.
Still too early to tell, but Pikiell's star is still very much on the rise, while Ash's star has dimmed a bit.
I like both Pikiell and Ash, and I think both hires had the potential to turn around our fortunes in their respective sports.
I think the potential is still very real for Pike, and we'll see what this season brings. For Ash, I think he missed his very narrow window of opportunity, and a poor hiring decision before we even saw the field may have triggered a domino effect that scuttled that potential.
Still too early to tell, but Pikiell's star is still very much on the rise, while Ash's star has dimmed a bit.
Football is a ton harder than Hoops to rebuild------can't judge Coach Ash till Year 4 IMO.
Ditto Coach Pike
Ditto Coach Pike
It is definitely harder in football, especially given our conference, and stumbling out of the gate doesn't do you any favors. Ash made a major blunder in hiring Drew Mehringer.... and it has had a ripple effect.
Without looking tell me who these people are:
Gary Tranquil
John Donovan
Don Treadwell
Mike Sanford
Irrelevant to the topic at hand, I can assure you.
The circumstances Ash walked into gave him a small window. He immediately capitalized on it with early recruiting, waving the banner of "big changes, strong pedigree"... and he brought in a "young and up and coming" staff.
One of his boom/bust hires was Mehringer, who had no particular resume to look at when he was hired. For a defensive coach who has never coached the offensive side of the ball and never called offensive plays, it was a massive risk - he didn't have the chops to step in and take over if things went off the rails. He compounded the risk by not bringing in any "mentor" figure as another offensive assistant, who could either help guide DM or even take over the reins if things went south.
If Mehringer worked out, Ash would have looked like a genius... but it was an extreme long shot. For a brand new head coach, it was a massive risk that he was essentially banking his career on.
It failed spectacularly.
DM was clearly way out of his depth. He force fit a team without a stable of WRs, without a proven mobile QB, and with questionable OLine depth into a system that went 4-5 wide, required a mobile quarterback, and required the OLine to give protection without help from a TE or FB. And he wanted them to move at break neck speed.
When that fell on its face, and his only WR threat went out with injury... he never adapted. Even after a 78-0 buzzsaw, he kept on forcing personnel into a system that they didn't fit.
Result: Multiple on-field embarrassments, and a promising recruiting class that didn't pick up another top recruit after the first kickoff.
So, the 2017 class could have been much stronger, but wasn't. Everyone paying attention knew that 2018 was going to be an uphill climb in NJ to get any of the top players, and the 2016 on field performance put us firmly off the radar for any who may have been on the fence. Switching OCs made the offense again start over with new plays, new formations, new personnel, which put 2017 in a hole right out of the gate.
When 2018 rolls around with its "easier" schedule, we'll have had two 40-60th ranked recruiting classes to stock the bare cupboard... in a season we need at least 5 wins.
The window isn't closed, per se.... but Ash definitely stumbled out of the gate in a way that Pikiell didn't.
I guess I'll answer my own question. Those are Nick Saban's, James Franklin's, Urban Meyer's and Mark Dantonio's first hires as OCs at their first major job. Not exactly a who's who.
The idea the Mehringer hire "set Ash back" is message board nonsense. I don't know if Coach Ash is going to be great, good or bad. But I know I don't know. And no one else does either. But if folks admitted that fact that would make boards like this pretty boring I guess.
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The start of each of those coaching tenures was very different than the one we find ourselves in - hence, irrelevant.
BUT.... for sake of argument, let's compare:
Saban.... hired Tranquil at MSU as his OC. By that point, Tranquil had 24 years of experience at the FBS level, including 6 years experience as an OC at the P5 level and 4 as a HC (Navy).
Franklin.... hired Donovan at Vandy as his OC. By that point, Donovan had 13 years as a position coach, 12 at P5 schools.
Meyer.... hired Sanford at Utah as his OC. By that point, Sanford had 14 years as an assistant coach at the P5 level, including 1 as OC.
Dantonio... hired Treadwell at Cincy as his OC. By that point, Treadwell had 12 years as an assistant coach, 11 at the P5 level, and 1 as an OC (Ball State).
Not one of those guys hired a guy who had fewer than 12 years of FBS coaching experience. Only Franklin hired a guy with no prior FBS experience at OC. They all brought in an experienced coach to run their offenses. Not one of them was breaking in yet another OC in Year 2.
Ash.... hired Mehringer at RU as his OC. By that point, Mehringer had 1 season as an FBS position coach.
So, even based on your cherry picked list.... Mehringer is still a whole different ballgame.
A better, more experienced OC who knew how to better hide our personnel deficiencies (for example, shortening the game by using more play clock, bringing in extra blockers to protect the QB, etc) could have resulted in a 5-7 season (single score losses to Iowa, Minnesota, and Indiana) and less embarrassing losses overall (maybe not the worst loss since 1888? 56-7 is still bad, but it's not 78-0 with no 1st downs until the 4th quarter).
Ash still has time to turn this around... but instead of climbing the mountain from Day 1, we spent a lot of time digging ourselves a hole first. It's a tough enough climb with all good decisions... one crucial bad one was a major setback.
RUC
Jury still out on this hire-----like the HC you have to give an OC or a DC a couple of years to implement his system.
My issue with the Kill hire is that RU isn't running Jerry Kill's offense.
Jerry Kill's Minnesota offense was a lot of 2TE and a lot of 2 back
In the first 2 games I haven't seen too much of either.
Jury still out on this hire-----like the HC you have to give an OC or a DC a couple of years to implement his system.
My issue with the Kill hire is that RU isn't running Jerry Kill's offense.
Jerry Kill's Minnesota offense was a lot of 2TE and a lot of 2 back
In the first 2 games I haven't seen too much of either.
Being a basketball fan of RU gives me a great perspective of the football program. People are absolutely crazy with expectations. The unfortunate problem is football isn't men's basketball. In basketball lack of success is missing out on potential revenue where lack of success in football can be devastating to the bottom line.
The state of NJ is a financial mess. Yes we have B1G $s coming in, but at some point NJ is going to require sports to be self sufficient. There could be a mismatch between the reasonable time it should take Ash to turn things around and when we need to see revenues lift from the ultimate bottom we will find over the next few years.
The state of NJ is a financial mess. Yes we have B1G $s coming in, but at some point NJ is going to require sports to be self sufficient. There could be a mismatch between the reasonable time it should take Ash to turn things around and when we need to see revenues lift from the ultimate bottom we will find over the next few years.
It was about 20 years ago that we were considered a basketball school and I think we are gradually getting back to that point again.
Our two QBs last year wound up being 3rd string at Sand Diego State (and left the school) and a backup at Tennessee Tech (and left the school). Not saying Mehringer was any good, but Bill Walsh could have been resurrected and not made our offense any good.
I don't think there's been a college basketball program in the history of sports that has imploded and screwed themselves up as much as Rutgers basketball during the last 25 years. It's truly a historic run of futility and I wish it on nobody, except maybe a Syracuse fan.
Very true, unfortunately. Also, when you look at *most* hoops turnarounds, they take 4-5 years, which is just as long as most football turnarounds. Different challenges.
