Law School Rankings Out

[NotInRHouse]

"Local" & B1G Schools in top 100:

Columbia 4
NYU 6
Penn 7
Michigan 9
Northwestern 9
Minnesota 21
Fordham 27
Iowa 27
Illinois 31
Indiana 38
Ohio State 38
Wisconsin 38
Maryland 47
UConn 50
Yeshiva 53
Temple 56
Cult 60
Seton Hall 62
Villanova 62
St John's 74
RU 76
Nebraska 76
Brooklyn 83
MSU 93
Drexel 93

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings

RU improved 1 spot over last year.

Fordham had a large increase, IU and Brooklyn a big drop.

 

[retired711]

Notice how far we are behind Seton Hall, Temple, and Villanova. Notice also that we are behind every other B1G law school except Michigan State (which took over a private law school some years ago.) Notice we're even behind Penn State (I assume that's what meant by "the Cult") even though their law school is derived from Dickinson. The much-vaunted merger between the Newark and Camden law schools does not seem to have done anything in the rankings. Rutgers needs to close either Camden's or Newark's law school and invest heavily in having a single outstanding school in the survivor. My impression remains that there is no possibility that RU will have a law school in New Brunswick.

I feel I worked really hard to make Camden Law a better place, and that a number of our deans (not all) did as well. It's a shame to see so little return for it.

EDIT: I cannot resist telling you about the most recent Rutgers master plan, which cited the law school as one area in which Rutgers was significantly behind its Big Ten peers -- and didn't say a word about trying to improve the law school. But, to be fair, the central administration has been willing thus far to subsidize the massive deficit at the merged law schools. That just keeps the schools alive, though, without improving them.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Notice how far we are behind Seton Hall, Temple, and Villanova. Notice also that we are behind every other B1G law school except Michigan State (which took over a private law school some years ago.) Notice we're even behind Penn State (I assume that's what meant by "the Cult") even though their law school is derived from Dickinson. The much-vaunted merger between the Newark and Camden law schools does not seem to have done anything in the rankings. Rutgers needs to close either Camden's or Newark's law school and invest heavily in having a single outstanding school in the survivor. My impression remains that there is no possibility that RU will have a law school in New Brunswick.

I feel I worked really hard to make Camden Law a better place, and that a number of our deans (not all) did as well. It's a shame to see so little return for it.

EDIT: I cannot resist telling you about the most recent Rutgers master plan, which cited the law school as one area in which Rutgers was significantly behind its Big Ten peers -- and didn't say a word about trying to improve the law school. But, to be fair, the central administration has been willing thus far to subsidize the massive deficit at the merged law schools. That just keeps the schools alive, though, without improving them.

Maybe I'm too out of it with everything happening at the moment, but in my view if all things are equal with tuitions and scholarships...RU would still be in play for candidates versus those 3 schools? But maybe they aren't...I know when I was applying, Temple and SHU gave me scholarship money to make them cheaper than RU.

I think everyone by now knows my view on moving the law school to NB...what happened in Central PA is evidence of the success it could bring.

 

[retired711]

Maybe I'm too out of it with everything happening at the moment, but in my view if all things are equal with tuitions and scholarships...RU would still be in play for candidates versus those 3 schools? But maybe they aren't...I know when I was applying, Temple and SHU gave me scholarship money to make them cheaper than RU.

I think everyone by now knows my view on moving the law school to NB...what happened in Central PA is evidence of the success it could bring.

Yes, we know Temple outcompetes us for good New Jersey students by offering scholarships that bring their tuition down below ours. As a Rutgers admissions officer once said to me, "We just can't compete."

 

[NotInRHouse]

Yes, we know Temple outcompetes us for good New Jersey students by offering scholarships that bring their tuition down below ours. As a Rutgers admissions officer once said to me, "We just can't compete."

Basically, it sounds like nothing will do it save a large cash infusion.

 

[retired711]

Basically, it sounds like nothing will do it save a large cash infusion.

Yep. It doesn't matter where the law school is if it doesn't have enough money for scholarships and other things it needs.

 

[Leonard23]

"Local" & B1G Schools in top 100:

Columbia 4
NYU 6
Penn 7
Michigan 9
Northwestern 9
Minnesota 21
Fordham 27
Iowa 27
Illinois 31
Indiana 38
Ohio State 38
Wisconsin 38
Maryland 47
UConn 50
Yeshiva 53
Temple 56
Cult 60
Seton Hall 62
Villanova 62
St John's 74
RU 76
Nebraska 76
Brooklyn 83
MSU 93
Drexel 93

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings

RU improved 1 spot over last year.

Fordham had a large increase, IU and Brooklyn a big drop.

Notice how far we are behind Seton Hall, Temple, and Villanova. Notice also that we are behind every other B1G law school except Michigan State (which took over a private law school some years ago.) Notice we're even behind Penn State (I assume that's what meant by "the Cult") even though their law school is derived from Dickinson. The much-vaunted merger between the Newark and Camden law schools does not seem to have done anything in the rankings. Rutgers needs to close either Camden's or Newark's law school and invest heavily in having a single outstanding school in the survivor. My impression remains that there is no possibility that RU will have a law school in New Brunswick.

I feel I worked really hard to make Camden Law a better place, and that a number of our deans (not all) did as well. It's a shame to see so little return for it.

EDIT: I cannot resist telling you about the most recent Rutgers master plan, which cited the law school as one area in which Rutgers was significantly behind its Big Ten peers -- and didn't say a word about trying to improve the law school. But, to be fair, the central administration has been willing thus far to subsidize the massive deficit at the merged law schools. That just keeps the schools alive, though, without improving them.

Rutgers Law School ranking is abysmal and a joke. Having 2 campuses in terrible areas is a negative. Open a law school in New Brunswick and close Newark and Camden. Enough of halfassing it already.

 

[RUhobbit]

Rutgers NB is in the B1G. NB doesn’t have a Law School. What am I missing?

 

[retired711]

MIchigan State doesn't have a law school at its main campus either. Penn State's law school -- a private law school that Penn State took over -- is split between Happy Valley and another location; an attempt to move it entirely to Happy Valley failed. Yes, the law school should be in NB and should be the only one in the state. But NB is so crowded already, and there would be huge political headaches in trying to abolish Newark and Camden. We're stuck with what we have.

That's not the end of the world: a lot can be done to improve the present merged institution. But it takes leadership and money, and the law school does not have the benefit of either.

 

[srru86]

Open a law school in New Brunswick and close Newark and Camden.

The one good argument I have heard over the years for the superiority of Camden and Newark as sites is the fact that federal courthouses and the associated legal activity, and student learning opportunities, exist in those places, not in New Brunswick.

The obvious counter is all that is NYC Law. and to a lesser extent Philly, is still a fairly easy commute even from New Brunswick. It's not like New Brunswick is some isolated town on the prairie like State College.

 

[retired711]

The one good argument I have heard over the years for the superiority of Camden and Newark as sites is the fact that federal courthouses and the associated legal activity, and student learning opportunities, exist in those places, not in New Brunswick.

The obvious counter is all that is NYC Law. and to a lesser extent Philly, is still a fairly easy commute even from New Brunswick. It's not like New Brunswick is some isolated town on the prairie like State College.

There is a direct train to Penn Station, of course, but not to Philadelphia unless one spring for the once-a-day Amtrak service to Philly.I guarantee that you do not want to take the SEPTA train from Trenton to Philadelphia -- it's a very long trip. Even NY is no bargain; the train takes an hour. And driving to and parking in either city is difficult and expensive.

But I don't think this is a big deal either way. I think the chief argument fora law school in NB is that the central administration cares a million times more about NB than about Newark, and ten million times about NB than about Camden. A law school in NB would get a lot of financial support. But does the central administration want to spend the $100 plus million dollars it would take to have a law school building in NB? I doubt it, and beside it would be a total non-starter politically.

 

[srru86]

I guarantee that you do not want to take the SEPTA train from Trenton to Philadelphia

I have taken the NJ Transit/SEPTA ride from NB to Philly and I won't dispute that it is a less than seamless commute. The change in Trenton is clunky at best.

 

[retired711]

I have taken the NJ Transit/SEPTA ride from NB to Philly and I won't dispute that it is a less than seamless commute. The change in Trenton is clunky at best.

There has been talk for years of a NJ Transit connection (as opposed to an Amtrak connection) from NY to Philadelphia's 30th street station. But it never has happened. Even if it did, 30th street is not near any law firms, and the student would have to take a bus or taxi/uber.

I wonder how often Yale students have part-time jobs in Boston or NYC. I know it's quite a hike to NYC, and my guess is that it's not easy to go to Boston from New Haven.

 

[RU-ROCS]

There is a direct train to Penn Station, of course, but not to Philadelphia unless one spring for the once-a-day Amtrak service to Philly.I guarantee that you do not want to take the SEPTA train from Trenton to Philadelphia -- it's a very long trip. Even NY is no bargain; the train takes an hour. And driving to and parking in either city is difficult and expensive.

But I don't think this is a big deal either way. I think the chief argument fora law school in NB is that the central administration cares a million times more about NB than about Newark, and ten million times about NB than about Camden. A law school in NB would get a lot of financial support. But does the central administration want to spend the $100 plus million dollars it would take to have a law school building in NB? I doubt it, and beside it would be a total non-starter politically.

Screw the politics. Virtually everyone realizes one centralized law school in NB would lead to a dramatic improvement in rankings, quality of students, quality of education, etc. The merged schools are a bit of a joke with "Co-deans" and a bloated administration. They have done little to gain the economies of scale that the merging the schools should have brought. And like it or not, Camden and Newark are deterrents to a lot of potential students. I know a woman who recently chose Brooklyn over RU -Newark only because she felt much safer in beautiful Brooklyn Heights. It's time for RU to show some real leadership and move the schools to NB. Over time that move will pay for itself.

 

[knightfan7]

There has been talk for years of a NJ Transit connection (as opposed to an Amtrak connection) from NY to Philadelphia's 30th street station. But it never has happened. Even if it did, 30th street is not near any law firms, and the student would have to take a bus or taxi/uber.

I wonder how often Yale students have part-time jobs in Boston or NYC. I know it's quite a hike to NYC, and my guess is that it's not easy to go to Boston from New Haven.

I took the trains from MetroPark to Philly and back to have lunch with my daughter and nephew who happens to be 2nd year at Penn Law. That is one long commute. One positive is I didn't have to call Uber because my daughter was an Uber driver on weekends at the time so she picked me up.....no charge lol.