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Let's just get it out of the way with Schiano

yesrutgers01

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Wow- every time the guy is mentioned, people go crazy. So, let's just get some things out of the way.

1) Not everyone who doesn't want him back is a hater or does not appreciate what he did here for us.
2) He did NOT screw Rutgers when he took the Tampa job and later came back to take the staff.

Those are the two top items.

To be more granular:
*Right man, Right time, right place. I am not sure anyone else could have done what he did. Did not understand there was even a two letter word (no) in the dictionary and just outworked and got things done any way he could. If you were in his way, he convinced you, went around you, over you or just moved you. We would not be where we are without him.
*Decent recruiter but got better as his name got bigger. But he was also the architect behind his own brand that helped him recruit in later years.
*Early on, he found "football players" They did not have to be 4 star or higher or the perfect size or shape. And he had a way to develop those guys. They either became the best they could for him or they became the best they could to spite him. But it worked.
*Huge heart- See Eric...he also did a lot of small things you never hear of as well.
*Turned down Miami and Michigan. But how can you turn down the NFL. Anyone that thinks he should have is crazy.
*When he could not get an NFL staff, what did you expect him to do? Hire HS coaches. No, only thing he could do is come back and grab the guys he knew. This did not screw Rutgers as most schools have to deal with a complete new staff when a HC leaves. President/BOG screwed Rutgers by not allocating even bread crumbs to hire a staff.
*Got us to bowls, every year was exciting and fun and he created an identity and NFL players.
Let's name a bldg after the man or a statue. He DOES deserve it.

Now- All of that DOES NOT mean we have to think he should come back. It does not mean we hate him. Why can't anyone have a conversation and not just be called a hater if we agree with everything above and yet do not think he is anything above just an average HC and may not even be average?
Why can't we say we want more?
Some of us would now take him, as for me, I would because I believe he would be immediately better then what we have right now and could get the ship righted quickly. But, I only see him as an immediate cure to stop us from sinking. I do not see him long term and don't want him long term.

I would love real discussion about him that does not turn into "hater" which derails just about every single thread that ever even tries to discuss his pluses and minuses.

You see my thoughts very clearly above. Would love to hear others being honest but not attacking posters for their opinions or put words in their mouths.
 
TL;DR
hater!!!:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:




I think I agree with most of what you said.
Have said consistently that Greg should be highly respected for what he did here. He was the right coach, in the right place at the right time.
He should he be Rutgers' first, only, default choice if the HC job is available again, but he should be in the mix, even if he is currently a little dinged up. Cast a wide net, interview candidates and take the candidate with the best plan and the worst interview.
 
To put it more succinctly:
Greg Schiano was a Rutgers football fans first girlfriend. It was young, new , and exciting. However, at times it was maddening and drove you nuts. But you got to touch boob and it was your first taste of boob.
A portion of this fan base thinks boob is enough and think its the best boob they will ever get. Others want more, they want the sects.
 
I’m not a Greg hater, I just want RU to aim higher than what Greg can currently bring to the table.

The B1G is not the Big East. Also it’s now 2018, not 2006.

I want an up and coming guy who can elevate RU FB to be competitive in our conference. That isn’t today’s Greg Schiano.

I also doubt that Greg wants to come back to RU, only as a last resort for him. Not a match for either side imo.
 
To put it more succinctly:
Greg Schiano was a Rutgers football fans first girlfriend. It was young, new , and exciting. However, at times it was maddening and drove you nuts. But you got to touch boob and it was your first taste of boob.
A portion of this fan base thinks boob is enough and think its the best boob they will ever get. Others want more, they want the sects.
You are mis-characterizing why some of us want him. I equate it more to how I would hire a CEO.

If my company was losing money, I wouldn't hire a CEO whose experience is taking successful small companies and growing their market share. First, I have to get my company to where it is profitable, then I can worry about growing it bigger. I need a CEO that is a turnaround specialist to get my company on solid footing as step one. Then, I can hire the growth CEO.

I think Rutgers has fallen so far, especially with another year of Ash recruiting, that there isn't going to be much for a new coach to work with. Even a good coach might not be able to win with the limited talent pool he inherits before he loses all momentum in recruiting.

The clock would not be ticking the same way for Schiano in recruiting because he is the only person who has proven he can win here. I don't know what his wins/losses would be (because I recognize his deficiencies as a coach). I am comfortable that worst case, after 3-4 years of Schiano, we would be in a better place than we are now and have a much better group of players in the program that would give the next coach a good chance of success.
 
Bring Him BACK!
usatsi_10396644_153192880_lowres.jpg
 
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You are mis-characterizing why some of us want him. I equate it more to how I would hire a CEO.

If my company was losing money, I wouldn't hire a CEO whose experience is taking successful small companies and growing their market share. First, I have to get my company to where it is profitable, then I can worry about growing it bigger. I need a CEO that is a turnaround specialist to get my company on solid footing as step one. Then, I can hire the growth CEO.

I think Rutgers has fallen so far, especially with another year of Ash recruiting, that there isn't going to be much for a new coach to work with. Even a good coach might not be able to win with the limited talent pool he inherits before he loses all momentum in recruiting.

The clock would not be ticking the same way for Schiano in recruiting because he is the only person who has proven he can win here. I don't know what his wins/losses would be (because I recognize his deficiencies as a coach). I am comfortable that worst case, after 3-4 years of Schiano, we would be in a better place than we are now and have a much better group of players in the program that would give the next coach a good chance of success.

What if he comes back, gets us to 4,5, or 6 wins, and no more.

How would we part ways if he wants to stay for say 10 years?
Would we be “stuck” if he didn’t want to leave?
No way we fire him and eat a $10+ million buyout for him and staff.
 
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I agree with most things the OP said and I would never fault anyone for taking the chance in the NFL. But he screwed Rutgers royally the way he did it. In addition, the competency of the administration when hiring his successor gave us a double screw.
 
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Gary was in the lead but DelanEy caught him on the turn.

Looks like Gary pulled ahead again but it’s only 9am so....
 
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Now- All of that DOES NOT mean we have to think he should come back. It does not mean we hate him. Why can't anyone have a conversation and not just be called a hater if we agree with everything above and yet do not think he is anything above just an average HC and may not even be average?
Why can't we say we want more?
Some of us would now take him, as for me, I would because I believe he would be immediately better then what we have right now and could get the ship righted quickly. But, I only see him as an immediate cure to stop us from sinking. I do not see him long term and don't want him long term.

I'm fine with this.
Bring him back to stop the bleeding. What we need now is the proverbial dutch boy to stick his finger into the hole in the dyke.
As far as his long term ceiling, it does not matter what you or I think. If he is here he will either succeed or fail long-term. Why worry about that when the dyke is about to collapse now.

Now of course this is moot since Ash is not going anywhere this year. I guess we will learn the answer about Ash's ability to pull this thing together. Not holding my breath.
 
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You are mis-characterizing why some of us want him. I equate it more to how I would hire a CEO.

If my company was losing money, I wouldn't hire a CEO whose experience is taking successful small companies and growing their market share. First, I have to get my company to where it is profitable, then I can worry about growing it bigger. I need a CEO that is a turnaround specialist to get my company on solid footing as step one. Then, I can hire the growth CEO.

I think Rutgers has fallen so far, especially with another year of Ash recruiting, that there isn't going to be much for a new coach to work with. Even a good coach might not be able to win with the limited talent pool he inherits before he loses all momentum in recruiting.

The clock would not be ticking the same way for Schiano in recruiting because he is the only person who has proven he can win here. I don't know what his wins/losses would be (because I recognize his deficiencies as a coach). I am comfortable that worst case, after 3-4 years of Schiano, we would be in a better place than we are now and have a much better group of players in the program that would give the next coach a good chance of success.
While I respect the viewpoint, I can’t agree because as far as CEO’s go, Greg sucked at it. He didn’t over see anything. He micro managed to the point he Burnt people out. He wasn’t great at Hiring. His coaching tree ain’t that hot. Don’t blame money his budget was similar to the rest of the Big East. And while we are romanticizing him, let’s not forget many HS coaches hated him, NFL scouts hated how he treated them, etc etc. maybe he’s changed. Maybe he’s learned, but his inability to adjust his D at OSU tells me he hasn’t. Again, boob is better than we have but it’s still just boob.
 
I'm fine with this.
Bring him back to stop the bleeding. What we need now is the proverbial dutch boy to stick his finger into the hole in the dyke.
As far as his long term ceiling, it does not matter what you or I think. If he is here he will either succeed or fail long-term. Why worry about that when the dyke is about to collapse now.

Now of course this is moot since Ash is not going anywhere this year. I guess we will learn the answer about Ash's ability to pull this thing together. Not holding my breath.

He would demand ridiculous money.

He would demand total control of the program.

We can't afford to overpay for "a finger in the dyke". Nor can we afford the long-term sustainability issues that we would invariably incur - again - when he leaves his essentially buttoned-up, proprietary program and the next guy has to come in and figure it all out for himself.

The flaw in Schiano's "house of bricks" logic was that the entire thing was specifically tuned to his operational cadence and there was no way to effect a clean transition when he left.
 
Probably 1 or 2 more years of Ash before the realistic stories of the return of our 2006 NCAA D1 Coach of the Year come to fruition.

PROs:
2 of his last 3 recruiting classes were in the 20s.
Put a lot of players in the NFL (compared to last 5 years)
Has, or had, the big charisma factor in NJ.
Some of his Spring games had higher attendance than current regular season games (how sad is that?)
Celebrities came to watch our big games
Students lined up to buy tickets
Helicopter attention getting recruiting.

Cons:
Micromanager
Abrasive at times
Some inexplicable losses


IMO, compared to what RU has gone through since he left, when Ash is gone in a year or 2, the possibility of Schiano's return will be Front Page in Big Font. And Barchi being gone by then will make it even more feasible.
 
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I just think theres better candidates out there. But im a prick because im not kissing his ring and not begging him to come back.

If he does come back, lets see what happens. But to make him THE ONLY CHOICE RUTGERS MUST CHOSE OR IT WILL DIE A HORRIBLE DEATH is shortsided at best
 
While I respect the viewpoint, I can’t agree because as far as CEO’s go, Greg sucked at it. He didn’t over see anything. He micro managed to the point he Burnt people out. He wasn’t great at Hiring. His coaching tree ain’t that hot. Don’t blame money his budget was similar to the rest of the Big East. And while we are romanticizing him, let’s not forget many HS coaches hated him, NFL scouts hated how he treated them, etc etc. maybe he’s changed. Maybe he’s learned, but his inability to adjust his D at OSU tells me he hasn’t. Again, boob is better than we have but it’s still just boob.
Agreed.
 
He would demand ridiculous money.

He would demand total control of the program.

We can't afford to overpay for "a finger in the dyke". Nor can we afford the long-term sustainability issues that we would invariably incur - again - when he leaves his essentially buttoned-up, proprietary program and the next guy has to come in and figure it all out for himself.

The flaw in Schiano's "house of bricks" logic was that the entire thing was specifically tuned to his operational cadence and there was no way to effect a clean transition when he left.
gee... 'total control of the program'
Could that just be what Football needs right now since its rudderless and both the AD and Head Coach are clueless how to fix it?
 
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Big name coach? ✔
Head coaching experience? ✔
Jersey guy? ✔
Record of building a program from the ground up? ✔

Objectively, what's not to like?

The fact that his program that he built from the ground up, that was ostensibly built to withstand anything, fell apart the minute he left.

The fact more than suggests that the processes put in place were not sustainable. Without fully understanding the "why" (and I'm not talking about nonsense finger-pointing like "Flood sucked" and what-not) I wouldn't be on board with letting him come back.

Greg had his shot at program building. His effort didn't meet the true definition, in that the team was only successful while he was here.
 
I just think theres better candidates out there. But im a prick because im not kissing his ring and not begging him to come back.

If he does come back, lets see what happens. But to make him THE ONLY CHOICE RUTGERS MUST CHOSE OR IT WILL DIE A HORRIBLE DEATH is shortsided at best

99% of the people here who advocate for GS, want him as the alternative if we can’t hire a proven winner.
I’ll take a proven head coach winner from FCS and non P-5.
I don’t want to take a chance on an up and coming coordinator or position coach.
 
The fact that his program that he built from the ground up, that was ostensibly built to withstand anything, fell apart the minute he left.

The fact more than suggests that the processes put in place were not sustainable. Without fully understanding the "why" (and I'm not talking about nonsense finger-pointing like "Flood sucked" and what-not) I wouldn't be on board with letting him come back.

Greg had his shot at program building. His effort didn't meet the true definition, in that the team was only successful while he was here.
His players afforded Flood several winning seasons, Flood fell apart
 
His players afforded Flood several winning seasons, Flood fell apart

Good job. Your explanation is exactly the explanation that I said wasn't acceptable as an explanation.

You're missing the point. Schiano said that the program he was putting in place would last forever, would withstand anything. This is factually incorrect. Therefore, he didn't meet his stated goal.

You guys want to redefine "success" after the fact. I'm not willing to do that. Schiano had some successful seasons. The program itself was not, long-term, successful.
 
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The fact that his program that he built from the ground up, that was ostensibly built to withstand anything, fell apart the minute he left.

The fact more than suggests that the processes put in place were not sustainable. Without fully understanding the "why" (and I'm not talking about nonsense finger-pointing like "Flood sucked" and what-not) I wouldn't be on board with letting him come back.

Greg had his shot at program building. His effort didn't meet the true definition, in that the team was only successful while he was here.
nothings sustainable if your management was incompetent= Julie Hermann.
Coach; was violating NCAA rules=Flood.
But continue onwards with your hatred campaign on Schiano. Cool story..
 
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Wow- every time the guy is mentioned, people go crazy. So, let's just get some things out of the way.

1) Not everyone who doesn't want him back is a hater or does not appreciate what he did here for us.
2) He did NOT screw Rutgers when he took the Tampa job and later came back to take the staff.

Those are the two top items.

To be more granular:
*Right man, Right time, right place. I am not sure anyone else could have done what he did. Did not understand there was even a two letter word (no) in the dictionary and just outworked and got things done any way he could. If you were in his way, he convinced you, went around you, over you or just moved you. We would not be where we are without him.
*Decent recruiter but got better as his name got bigger. But he was also the architect behind his own brand that helped him recruit in later years.
*Early on, he found "football players" They did not have to be 4 star or higher or the perfect size or shape. And he had a way to develop those guys. They either became the best they could for him or they became the best they could to spite him. But it worked.
*Huge heart- See Eric...he also did a lot of small things you never hear of as well.
*Turned down Miami and Michigan. But how can you turn down the NFL. Anyone that thinks he should have is crazy.
*When he could not get an NFL staff, what did you expect him to do? Hire HS coaches. No, only thing he could do is come back and grab the guys he knew. This did not screw Rutgers as most schools have to deal with a complete new staff when a HC leaves. President/BOG screwed Rutgers by not allocating even bread crumbs to hire a staff.
*Got us to bowls, every year was exciting and fun and he created an identity and NFL players.
Let's name a bldg after the man or a statue. He DOES deserve it.

Now- All of that DOES NOT mean we have to think he should come back. It does not mean we hate him. Why can't anyone have a conversation and not just be called a hater if we agree with everything above and yet do not think he is anything above just an average HC and may not even be average?
Why can't we say we want more?
Some of us would now take him, as for me, I would because I believe he would be immediately better then what we have right now and could get the ship righted quickly. But, I only see him as an immediate cure to stop us from sinking. I do not see him long term and don't want him long term.

I would love real discussion about him that does not turn into "hater" which derails just about every single thread that ever even tries to discuss his pluses and minuses.

You see my thoughts very clearly above. Would love to hear others being honest but not attacking posters for their opinions or put words in their mouths.
How can you think so cogently at eight o'clock in the morning? While you were posting I was still sleeping.
 
Good job. Your explanation is exactly the explanation that I said wasn't acceptable as an explanation.

You're missing the point. Schiano said that the program he was putting in place would last forever, would withstand anything. This is factually incorrect. Therefore, he didn't meet his stated goal.

You guys want to redefine "success" after the fact. I'm not willing to do that. Schiano had some successful seasons. The program itself was not, long-term, successful.



I've followed RU very closely since 1971, I don't remember Schiano saying what you wrote in the 2nd paragraph. Maybe you could find the article where he said those things and link them.
I do remember him saying winning a National Championship was his goal.
 
I've followed RU very closely since 1971, I don't remember Schiano saying what you wrote in the 2nd paragraph. Maybe you could find the article where he said those things and link them.
I do remember him saying winning a National Championship was his goal.

He said repeatedly that he was building a program to last.

I quoted him on it in the piece that I wrote back in '02ish. Variations of the same quote appeared in many places.
 
Good job. Your explanation is exactly the explanation that I said wasn't acceptable as an explanation.

You're missing the point. Schiano said that the program he was putting in place would last forever, would withstand anything. This is factually incorrect. Therefore, he didn't meet his stated goal.

You guys want to redefine "success" after the fact. I'm not willing to do that. Schiano had some successful seasons. The program itself was not, long-term, successful.

This is an unfair standard.
Any coach that takes over any program still has to recruit.
Flood failed at recruiting. Plain and simple.
He also created new problems (lack of discipline, NCAA sanctions, etc.) But his main failure was recruiting.
Not even Alabama's program is built strong enough to survive a coach who fails at recruiting.
 
Big name coach? ✔
Head coaching experience? ✔
Jersey guy? ✔
Record of building a program from the ground up? ✔

Objectively, what's not to like?
Head coaching experience, Jersey guy, building program from ground up: yes. But only RU fans who were fans when he was here would call him a "big name coach".

Everybody else would look him up and see his NCAA head coaching record is 1 game over .500, and even worse when factoring out the cream-puff OOC competition. Then they'd say, well he coached in the NFL, so that's good, right? Only to look at that record and conclude, nope, not so good.

They would see that he once was a head coach, then an NFL head coach, and now is a coordinator. And they'd wonder why.

To most of the country, I'm pretty sure his name is either largely unknown or negatively viewed (see Tennessee debacle, Tampa Bay fans, or folks who commented on him trying to cause a fumble when the other teams took a knee in the NFL).

@vkj91 has the right spin on him and on RU fan perception of him. We have an overly romanticized perception based on him being the guy who got us to a bunch of bowl games, almost unheard of in RUFB history.

Would he probably do better than Ash, sure. Does he deserve huge credit for taking RU from absolutely nowhere to repeated bowl games, sure. But that's about it, in terms of accolades he actually deserves.
 
The fact that his program that he built from the ground up, that was ostensibly built to withstand anything, fell apart the minute he left.

The fact more than suggests that the processes put in place were not sustainable. Without fully understanding the "why" (and I'm not talking about nonsense finger-pointing like "Flood sucked" and what-not) I wouldn't be on board with letting him come back.

Greg had his shot at program building. His effort didn't meet the true definition, in that the team was only successful while he was here .
 
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What if he comes back, gets us to 4,5, or 6 wins, and no more.

How would we part ways if he wants to stay for say 10 years?
Would we be “stuck” if he didn’t want to leave?
No way we fire him and eat a $10+ million buyout for him and staff.
Why couldn't we fire him? Why would we have a $10 million buyout? Is Hobbs going to give the next coach automatic extensions even when we aren't under threat of sanctions?

The point is when Schiano is gone, even if it is only 3-5 years after he comes, the program will be in much better shape for the next coach than it is now. The best X's and O's coach in the world is going to have trouble winning quickly, while he has recruiting momentum, with what Ash will be leaving him.
 
This is an unfair standard.
Any coach that takes over any program still has to recruit.
Flood failed at recruiting. Plain and simple.
He also created new problems (lack of discipline, NCAA sanctions, etc.) But his main failure was recruiting.
Not even Alabama's program is built strong enough to survive a coach who fails at recruiting.

Schiano hired Flood.

Flood's inadequacies were broadly discussed well before Schiano left. There was much talk about him needing to be the next person out the door.

First Rule of Management: Everything is your fault.

Schiano is, at best, a $1.5M / year band-aid. He's a guy with very clear, documented limitations and a fair amount of baggage. I would not sign off on a premium contract. He is not the long-term answer.
 
Schiano hired Flood.

Flood's inadequacies were broadly discussed well before Schiano left. There was much talk about him needing to be the next person out the door.

First Rule of Management: Everything is your fault.

Schiano is, at best, a $1.5M / year band-aid. He's a guy with very clear, documented limitations and a fair amount of baggage. I would not sign off on a premium contract. He is not the long-term answer.
source.gif
 
While I respect the viewpoint, I can’t agree because as far as CEO’s go, Greg sucked at it. He didn’t over see anything. He micro managed to the point he Burnt people out. He wasn’t great at Hiring. His coaching tree ain’t that hot. Don’t blame money his budget was similar to the rest of the Big East. And while we are romanticizing him, let’s not forget many HS coaches hated him, NFL scouts hated how he treated them, etc etc. maybe he’s changed. Maybe he’s learned, but his inability to adjust his D at OSU tells me he hasn’t. Again, boob is better than we have but it’s still just boob.
That exactly how turnaround CEO's are. you don't keep them around for the long term because they aren't good at the day to day running of a successful company, they are good are taking the steps to get a struggling company profitable (and they aren't liked because a lot of those steps are pretty hard on their employees).

I wouldn't expect, or want, Schiano to be here for more than 3-5 years. I just think that you can take the best young coach and bring him here in a year (and, let's face it, it might be 2 years because Ash's buyout is still pretty big next year and Hobbs still won't want to admit he made a mistake) and he is going to have trouble taking what he inherits and winning in the short window before his recruiting momentum runs out.
 
Schiano hired Flood.

Flood's inadequacies were broadly discussed well before Schiano left. There was much talk about him needing to be the next person out the door.

First Rule of Management: Everything is your fault.

Schiano is, at best, a $1.5M / year band-aid. He's a guy with very clear, documented limitations and a fair amount of baggage. I would not sign off on a premium contract. He is not the long-term answer.
He doesn't have to be the long term answer, he would be hired to fix the short term problems (mainly recruiting and perception).

You call it a band aid, I would say that when the pipes are burst in your house, you need to turn off the water and fix the plumbing before you hang new drywall and worry about what color you are going to paint it.
 
Schiano hired Flood.

Flood's inadequacies were broadly discussed well before Schiano left. There was much talk about him needing to be the next person out the door.

First Rule of Management: Everything is your fault.

Schiano is, at best, a $1.5M / year band-aid. He's a guy with very clear, documented limitations and a fair amount of baggage. I would not sign off on a premium contract. He is not the long-term answer.

This is nonsense.
Schiano did not make Flood the head coach.

He did a good job while he was the head coach.
He left behind a very talented roster.
What others did after that is not his responsibility.
 
This is nonsense.
Schiano did not make Flood the head coach.

He did a good job while he was the head coach.
He left behind a very talented roster.
What others did after that is not his responsibility.
but it fits his Hate Schiano narrative and makes him happy.
#fakeNews.
 
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