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Lion Post Mortem - RU v Wagner

lion1983

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I am likely to do a post mortem on most RU games, time permitting. This one may be shorter than most (which some will laugh at given my tendency for lengthy posts).

So ... Here goes, with a high level summary:

1) To begin with, this game comes with a major caveat. Yes, Wagner went to the NCAA last year after winning the NEC tourney. And, yes, Wagner is favored, along with Central Connecticut St, as pre-season co-champions. But ... Last season, Wagner was 14-15 going into the NEC tourney (a losing record) ... and lost its top 3 players from last year. This year's starting line-up was made up of entirely of last season's next 5 top players (#4-8). I say all this because, though I thought RU played very good defense (other than its defensive rebounding), and was relatively efficient offensively (50% FG, though just 30% 3-point FG), and made Wagner look really bad for most of the game, I wonder ... Wagner did not LOOK like a pre-season co-champion favorite, even from a bad conference. Of course, this game, the 1st game, against a low level conference team, and without Bailey, does not mean much (unless RU really struggled) ... but maybe it means even less, if Wagner is actually NOT a good team.

2) RU had a real rebounding problem: both weak defensive rebounding (especially in the 2nd half), AND offensive rebounding. I do not know the answer. Does the coaching staff have an answer? Maybe the only answer is for the team to achieve in other areas to offset this weakness ... like scoring more, and more efficiently. Still ... a team with a strong scoring and rebounding frontcourt could cause real damage to RTU that cannot be offset, unless Pikiell and staff can figure out how to help the team be a better rebounding team.

3) RU won easily, even with flaws ... always a good sign. Here are the flaws RU overcame to win going away (by 23, but with 1 minute left it was a 29 point margin): a) RU was missing its #1 or #2 player; b) Very poor defensive rebounding, allowing WAY too many offensive rebounds, especially in the 2nd half; c) Very poor offensive rebounding - only 4, 2 of which were team rebounds; d) Poor FT shooting - though Harper was 1-6 FT, which would seem like an extreme anomaly, unlikely to repeat itself. Surely there were other team flaws, but those come to mind. Yet, it is a good sign, IMO, when a team can win easily without playing its "A" game, and missing its expected top scorer.. I am sure RU will struggle in some games, not even playing as well as they did vs Wagner ... AND ... I am sure RU will ALSO play better in other games, even against better teams.

Players (mostly quick comments):

Harper: Oddly enough, in my opinion, it is a GREAT sign that everyone (announcers, commentators post game, fans etc.) was "wowed" with his control, his ability to get to the rim at will, his ability to finish at the rim (make his at-rim shots) through contact, his improved defense (vs the St. John's game), his vision and passing ... all in a game in which I felt Harper did not even have his "A" game. Yes, he was good, and yes he of course keyed the game and was RU's best player in the game (as he often will). Still, I felt he forced things a little more than he should (more so than in the St. John's exhibition game),leading to his 4 TO ... and he was just 1-6 FT. Well, maybe I am nitpicking ... but I just felt while watching the game that we are going to see Harper play many games better ... which, IS very exciting.

Ogbole: Very poor game. Not just the fouls ... his few minutes were not because of fouls, but because he played poorly. His biggest issue in THIS game was a complete lack of good defensive footwork, and a lack of sound defensive fundamentals. That does not mean he will play like this in all games, but in THIS game he was very poor. His major defensive problem in THIS game was he played entirely behind Wagner's post player, and let him establish position way too close to the hoop, and never tried to reposition the offensive player by either his strength, partial fronting, or by moving his feet. Ogbole played much better defense against a better post player versus St. Johns - but was notably poor vs Wagner. He earned only getting 5 minutes of time.

Sommerville: Terrific start to his career. The offensive moves were obviously highly skilled, with excellent footwork and excellent body control. He was solid with defensive rebounding, as well. And his defense, even against a lesser player than he faced in the exhibition vs St. Johns, was vastly improved, with solid fundamentals and excellent defensive footwork. And what a passer, eh? Sommerville will struggle, surely, in some games. But he also showed some real potential. Maybe ... RU will get more games than not from Sommerville like this ... and maybe a few games of better than what he did in this game from Ogbole? One can hope, eh?

Williams: Excellent, solid game. Even with the shoulder, he was controlled, played terrific defense, occasionally explosive offensively, and an important part of breaking down the Wagner defense, as well as pushing the pace in transition.

Derkack: He is going to be an important part of the rotation. His athleticism is evident, his defense is very strong, he can rebound a bit ... his offense is still a work in progress, especially against better teams. he will make some frustrating decisions and moves (especially in the half-court offense), and some electrifying ones (especially on defense and in transition). But he will play.

Davis: I thought he was excellent vs Wagner. His on-ball and recovery defense were simply outstanding - as I expect it will be in most games. And his decision-making was really good offensively this game. I did not see any forced shots. When he drove into the lane, he looked to pass out to open teammates. He kept the ball moving, passing - it did not stick to his hands ... including giving up several open shots to pass to better shooters on his team for better shots. Yes, he was 0-3 from 3-point range. But all were wide open, unforced, shots (I think 2 or all 3 were from Harper, costing Harper a couple of assists). He and Derkack will lose minutes when Bailey is available, but Davis was excellent, IMO ... oh yeah, 5 assists, 0 turnovers and 3-4 FT, plus a few rebounds.

Hayes and Martini: Did what they were brought in to do: Hit their open 3's. Hayes also was at least OK on defense (and certainly showed great willingness on D), and made several really good cuts to the basket. Martini his his 1st 3's and was solid on defense (not great but solid).

Acuff: I though he played a solid offensive floor game (though he did not hit many shots), though still not quite in full GAME shape ... my son felt the ball stuck to his hands too much in the half court, unlike with Davis or Williams, thus reducing the flow of RU's offense when he had the ball. Regardless, his defense was ... poor. Many times in his just 14 minutes he was unable to cover his man, fooled, beaten or out of position ... this would be a problem. Richie O thinks Acuff is RU's 6th man. Pre-season and injury I thought Acuff would likely be RU's offensive spark off the bench. My son thinks Acuff should be RU's TENTH (10th) man, behind the normal starters - Bailey, Harper, Williams, Martini and the Center - as well as Derkack, Hayes and Davis and the 2nd center. We shall; see. My early read currently is that Hayes should get minutes over Acuff, if that is the choice ... and that Davis and Derkack do things needed off the bench that Acuff cannot do (play-making and defense).

On Acuff, vs let's say Williams (not that the comparison is between those 2): Williams is the FAR better player - and during his full college career has ALWAYS been the better prospect and better player, last season's scoring explosion by Acuff notwithstanding. Derkack may also be better - other than 3-point FG% ... and Davis fills a totally different role.

Grant/Dortch: Glad Grant got a couple of minutes - and hope he does so in the next couple of game also. But he is clearly thw 11th man, and a prime candidate for a redshirt ... no judgment on his 2 missed shots ... but he did alos get 2 nice rebounds. Dortch si almost certainly going to be redshirted - and hopefully will return next year (rather than transfer) with another year of learning, physical strength improvement, etc.
 
Great recap. I think Hayes was better than just okay in D.
Its possible. I have to admit I was mainly looking at his willingness (i.e. effort), which was very good ... and for some reason, even while watching the game, I was comparing him to Acuff's defense - Hayes was much better than Acuff on defense. But that was also a low hurdle.

If Hayes is merely AVERAGE on defense, that is worlds better than I anticipated, and will allow him to be on the court for many more minutes than the 12-15 I had originally projected this Summer. Which would be huge, as he is clearly RU's best bench shooter and offensive player, by a margin.

And if Hayes gets more minutes ... well ...RU's top 2 scorers, barring injury, will clearly be Bailey and Harper. Odds are Williams seems likely to be the #3 scorer. If Hayes can play average defense, earning him more minutes, he has a chance to be RU's #4 - or MAYBE even #3 scorer. #3 scorer may be pushing it, just because of minutes ... but with RU's obvious increased pace of offensive play (due to Bailey and Harper), there is a chance RU could have 4 players averaging 10+ ppg - and Hayes and Williams would seem to be the best odds of being those2 additional double digit scorers, IMO, at this stage.

Let's see what happens by the end of November, though.
 
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Wow that is an in depth analysis. Great job! I like it. Means I can take some nights off
And not even as detailed as some post mortems will be (the more important games).

But I love reading your work also, Bac - we have both always deeply analyzed the games, from slightly different perspectives and areas of emphasis - I view our analyses as complementary, not duplicative.

I had stepped away for a while for health reasons, but am back. And basketball is my passion, especially RU hoops. Unfortunately cannot go to as many games in person as I would hope for this year (health and travel schedule), but hopefully I can resolve before the end of the season. Meanwhile, thankfully everything is televised. A poor substitute, but it is what it is.
 
Until I see otherwise, my initial thoughts are what they were 8 months ago....that Dylan Grant and Lathan Sommerville have to be part of the regular rotation.....because the assumption was Cliff would not be back and that Wolf would be passed on the depth chart (he ultimately transfer out).

My other end of last season thoughts, never had RU backfilling so many roster holes with Martini, Acuff, Derkack, PJ Hayes. The portal transfers have so much versatility, that it is almost impossible to ask the staff to

A) Shorten the minutes of Ogbole against another teams center, just because Grant and Dortch are just better overall players.

B) Shorten the minutes of Martini, because he is capable of 2 to 4 3 point attempts per game.

C) Find a way for Ace Bailey and Dylan Harper to not only be a dynamic scorers, playmakers and solid defenders, BUT to also ask them to collect 8 rebounds per game (Ace 5, Dylan 3).

My initial thought is watching Grant in limited HS tape and seeing his leaping abilities, he can play bigger than his 6'7 or 6'8 appears to be. He is capable of shooting a corner 3, which didn't drop vs Wagner, BUT if he's on the court with Ace, Dylan and others, he's assuredly going to be left open.

Can we steal points from Grant AND allow him minutes to learn and grow, so he can help on the glass??

In my opinion, Grant is the only "plus" athlete on the front line, not named Ace Bailey and it's very difficult to see the rebounding improve unless Sommerville starts and averages almost a double-double most nights....Even if he does (which is not far fetched in a couple of years) it's not realistic to ask that of a frosh, who also has to grind and defend the 5 and score.

To me it is a Martini situation where I will live with him not rebounding vs B1G opponents and it will frustrate fans when we give up rebounds, but if Martini drains a couple of 3s, I'll live with it. The Grant situation is the solution and I hope Pike finds minutes for him sooner BUT it's tough to remove any other veterans, they're just better overall players in November 2024......by February 2025, who knows....
 
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Its possible. I have to admit I was mainly looking at his willingness (i.e. effort), which was very good ... and for some reason, even while watching the game, I was comparing him to Acuff's defense - Hayes was much better than Acuff on defense. But that was also a low hurdle.

If Hayes is merely AVERAGE on defense, that is worlds better than I anticipated, and will allow him to be on the court for many more minutes than the 12-15 I had originally projected this Summer. Which would be huge, as he is clearly RU's best bench shooter and offensive player, by a margin.

And if Hayes gets more minutes ... well ...RU's top 2 scorers, barring injury, will clearly be Bailey and Harper. Odds are Williams seems likely to be the #3 scorer. If Hayes can play average defense, earning him more minutes, he has a chance to be RU's #4 - or MAYBE even #3 scorer. #3 scorer may be pushing it, just because of minutes ... but with RU's obvious increased pace of offensive play (due to Bailey and Harper), there is a chance RU could have 4 players averaging 10+ ppg - and Hayes and Williams would seem to be the best odds of being those2 additional double digit scorers, IMO, at this stage.

Let's see what happens by the end of November, though.
Hayes dropping 20 lbs was enormous. He looked dumpy and slow in his highlights and had a terrible defensive rating last year so I was worried he would be too much of a liability on D especially with a jump up a level in competition.

He now looks like he has an extra spring in his step and i think he can be fine defensively which is all he needs to be to get on the court and have a major role
 
One thought about our lack of offensive rebounding. I can’t recall a Pike team that had so many outside shooting threats.

Of the 11 guys that have seen floor time in either the St.John’s or Wagner games, 7 of them are legitimate threats to score from beyond the arc, and 3 others took at least one shot attempt from deep. Only Ogbole did not attempt a trey in either game.

So, with 10 out of 11 guys given the green light to shoot from outside the arc, as a team we collectively might be a step behind our opponents for offensive rebounds.

If we’re gonna play a 4-out or even 5-out offense at times, we’ll have to have everyone but the shooter crashing the boards.
 
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I am likely to do a post mortem on most RU games, time permitting. This one may be shorter than most (which some will laugh at given my tendency for lengthy posts).

So ... Here goes, with a high level summary:

1) To begin with, this game comes with a major caveat. Yes, Wagner went to the NCAA last year after winning the NEC tourney. And, yes, Wagner is favored, along with Central Connecticut St, as pre-season co-champions. But ... Last season, Wagner was 14-15 going into the NEC tourney (a losing record) ... and lost its top 3 players from last year. This year's starting line-up was made up of entirely of last season's next 5 top players (#4-8). I say all this because, though I thought RU played very good defense (other than its defensive rebounding), and was relatively efficient offensively (50% FG, though just 30% 3-point FG), and made Wagner look really bad for most of the game, I wonder ... Wagner did not LOOK like a pre-season co-champion favorite, even from a bad conference. Of course, this game, the 1st game, against a low level conference team, and without Bailey, does not mean much (unless RU really struggled) ... but maybe it means even less, if Wagner is actually NOT a good team.

2) RU had a real rebounding problem: both weak defensive rebounding (especially in the 2nd half), AND offensive rebounding. I do not know the answer. Does the coaching staff have an answer? Maybe the only answer is for the team to achieve in other areas to offset this weakness ... like scoring more, and more efficiently. Still ... a team with a strong scoring and rebounding frontcourt could cause real damage to RTU that cannot be offset, unless Pikiell and staff can figure out how to help the team be a better rebounding team.

3) RU won easily, even with flaws ... always a good sign. Here are the flaws RU overcame to win going away (by 23, but with 1 minute left it was a 29 point margin): a) RU was missing its #1 or #2 player; b) Very poor defensive rebounding, allowing WAY too many offensive rebounds, especially in the 2nd half; c) Very poor offensive rebounding - only 4, 2 of which were team rebounds; d) Poor FT shooting - though Harper was 1-6 FT, which would seem like an extreme anomaly, unlikely to repeat itself. Surely there were other team flaws, but those come to mind. Yet, it is a good sign, IMO, when a team can win easily without playing its "A" game, and missing its expected top scorer.. I am sure RU will struggle in some games, not even playing as well as they did vs Wagner ... AND ... I am sure RU will ALSO play better in other games, even against better teams.

Players (mostly quick comments):

Harper: Oddly enough, in my opinion, it is a GREAT sign that everyone (announcers, commentators post game, fans etc.) was "wowed" with his control, his ability to get to the rim at will, his ability to finish at the rim (make his at-rim shots) through contact, his improved defense (vs the St. John's game), his vision and passing ... all in a game in which I felt Harper did not even have his "A" game. Yes, he was good, and yes he of course keyed the game and was RU's best player in the game (as he often will). Still, I felt he forced things a little more than he should (more so than in the St. John's exhibition game),leading to his 4 TO ... and he was just 1-6 FT. Well, maybe I am nitpicking ... but I just felt while watching the game that we are going to see Harper play many games better ... which, IS very exciting.

Ogbole: Very poor game. Not just the fouls ... his few minutes were not because of fouls, but because he played poorly. His biggest issue in THIS game was a complete lack of good defensive footwork, and a lack of sound defensive fundamentals. That does not mean he will play like this in all games, but in THIS game he was very poor. His major defensive problem in THIS game was he played entirely behind Wagner's post player, and let him establish position way too close to the hoop, and never tried to reposition the offensive player by either his strength, partial fronting, or by moving his feet. Ogbole played much better defense against a better post player versus St. Johns - but was notably poor vs Wagner. He earned only getting 5 minutes of time.

Sommerville: Terrific start to his career. The offensive moves were obviously highly skilled, with excellent footwork and excellent body control. He was solid with defensive rebounding, as well. And his defense, even against a lesser player than he faced in the exhibition vs St. Johns, was vastly improved, with solid fundamentals and excellent defensive footwork. And what a passer, eh? Sommerville will struggle, surely, in some games. But he also showed some real potential. Maybe ... RU will get more games than not from Sommerville like this ... and maybe a few games of better than what he did in this game from Ogbole? One can hope, eh?

Williams: Excellent, solid game. Even with the shoulder, he was controlled, played terrific defense, occasionally explosive offensively, and an important part of breaking down the Wagner defense, as well as pushing the pace in transition.

Derkack: He is going to be an important part of the rotation. His athleticism is evident, his defense is very strong, he can rebound a bit ... his offense is still a work in progress, especially against better teams. he will make some frustrating decisions and moves (especially in the half-court offense), and some electrifying ones (especially on defense and in transition). But he will play.

Davis: I thought he was excellent vs Wagner. His on-ball and recovery defense were simply outstanding - as I expect it will be in most games. And his decision-making was really good offensively this game. I did not see any forced shots. When he drove into the lane, he looked to pass out to open teammates. He kept the ball moving, passing - it did not stick to his hands ... including giving up several open shots to pass to better shooters on his team for better shots. Yes, he was 0-3 from 3-point range. But all were wide open, unforced, shots (I think 2 or all 3 were from Harper, costing Harper a couple of assists). He and Derkack will lose minutes when Bailey is available, but Davis was excellent, IMO ... oh yeah, 5 assists, 0 turnovers and 3-4 FT, plus a few rebounds.

Hayes and Martini: Did what they were brought in to do: Hit their open 3's. Hayes also was at least OK on defense (and certainly showed great willingness on D), and made several really good cuts to the basket. Martini his his 1st 3's and was solid on defense (not great but solid).

Acuff: I though he played a solid offensive floor game (though he did not hit many shots), though still not quite in full GAME shape ... my son felt the ball stuck to his hands too much in the half court, unlike with Davis or Williams, thus reducing the flow of RU's offense when he had the ball. Regardless, his defense was ... poor. Many times in his just 14 minutes he was unable to cover his man, fooled, beaten or out of position ... this would be a problem. Richie O thinks Acuff is RU's 6th man. Pre-season and injury I thought Acuff would likely be RU's offensive spark off the bench. My son thinks Acuff should be RU's TENTH (10th) man, behind the normal starters - Bailey, Harper, Williams, Martini and the Center - as well as Derkack, Hayes and Davis and the 2nd center. We shall; see. My early read currently is that Hayes should get minutes over Acuff, if that is the choice ... and that Davis and Derkack do things needed off the bench that Acuff cannot do (play-making and defense).

On Acuff, vs let's say Williams (not that the comparison is between those 2): Williams is the FAR better player - and during his full college career has ALWAYS been the better prospect and better player, last season's scoring explosion by Acuff notwithstanding. Derkack may also be better - other than 3-point FG% ... and Davis fills a totally different role.

Grant/Dortch: Glad Grant got a couple of minutes - and hope he does so in the next couple of game also. But he is clearly thw 11th man, and a prime candidate for a redshirt ... no judgment on his 2 missed shots ... but he did alos get 2 nice rebounds. Dortch si almost certainly going to be redshirted - and hopefully will return next year (rather than transfer) with another year of learning, physical strength improvement, etc.

Ha - my buddies from Michigan were like “wow, he could be POY”. And I was like, “really, it was a kind of pedestrian night for him”.
 
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