Accumulating a roster of talented players and thinning the herd are two things a successful college coach masters. This year Dayton succeeded with a short lineup and short bench. All the Flyers were players. The coach did a masterful job of orchestrating.
Malik Ellison
- Thread starter seels2662
- Start date
Hopefully no one is suggesting ( or hoping) Lewis , or any Player, gives up his scholarship to open up a spot so a recruit can be added to roster.
When Lewis' name comes up, let us not forget he could have left, when the leaving was good., so I won't disrespect Greg's loyalty to RU by wanting him to pay for it.
I was merely suggesting that RU could finance his scholarship (or anybody else of that matter, I just picked Lewis because I'm assuming he already has his degree or is very close to it). I'm sure RU can find a way to finance someone else's scholarship on the roster in order to make room for Ellison.
What about this scenario? Hire Pervis as an assistant of some kind (doesn't have to be recruiting). Malik can attend Rutgers for free being the child of a university employee. Would this work?
"What about this scenario? Hire Pervis as an assistant of some kind (doesn't have to be recruiting). Malik can attend Rutgers for free being the child of a university employee. Would this work?"
Interesting idea. But I think if that was a way to get around the system and stay within NCAA rules, then we would have seen this kind of tactic happening all the time. So I kinda doubt that it is kosher.
Interesting idea. But I think if that was a way to get around the system and stay within NCAA rules, then we would have seen this kind of tactic happening all the time. So I kinda doubt that it is kosher.
Even in that scenario, you are talking about free tuition only and not room and board, etc.
From where are you hearing that.
Can't say it isn't true, but sometimes when you hear a kid is going to commit to one school, he goes to another.
How valid is your source(s) and can you share who you heard that from ?
It's much easier to sell this if you are SJU with spots open and RU technically without a current spot, but it's ironic to still hear RU mentioned vs not since Monday.....this is gravy here for RU, we are at our max on paper, where Ellison probably would be considered an SJU lean, has spots available.
Don't see Ellison as a long term solution for Mullin and SJU, but they need bodies now but will recruit over him with 2016 kids.
Don't see Ellison as a long term solution for Mullin and SJU, but they need bodies now but will recruit over him with 2016 kids.
Mullin and co are trying to bridge between this year and next year when they believe they will land major top talent (such as Heron, Alkins, Yakwe). So that is why you see them taking 5th year seniors Durand Johnson and Ron M'Vouika and JUCO Darien Williams who can come in immediately and can play with Obekpa and Jordan. They are mixing in freshman like Sima and transfer Tariq Owens (not eligible until next year) as depth and future potential.
They see Ellison that way to provide depth now and develop in the future and be a solid 4 year player.
I think Eli Carter wants to play with Durand but I don't believe SJU wants that.
They see Ellison that way to provide depth now and develop in the future and be a solid 4 year player.
I think Eli Carter wants to play with Durand but I don't believe SJU wants that.
Unfortunately michstfr has been spot on with calls like this before. bummer, but I am still THRILLED with our haul this year...
JP stealing my thunder LOL:
J.P. Pelzman@JPPelzman 20minutes ago
I'm told Malik Ellison will commit to St. John's, per source
J.P. Pelzman@JPPelzman 20minutes ago
I'm told Malik Ellison will commit to St. John's, per source
I agree, unfortunately, if what I heard tonight is true that he will be committing to SJU, he will be recruited over next year.
St. John's is making strong inroads with Alkins. I agree that he is still open to a number of schools at this point, including North Carolina. Duke may be trying to get involved, but they have no chance. There is no interest in Duke. Duke does not have any clout with the folks around Alkins. Alkins is very close with a couple of kids that are strong St. John's leans, and his high school coach, with whom Alkins is close, is a huge St. John's proponent for Alkins.
Ellison will have plenty of playing time at St. John's even if they obtain the two high level swingmen types they are recruiting for 2016. He is not being recruited over and the St. John's staff has been very open about their future plans involving Ellison and future recruits.
Right now Chris Mullin (& company) certainly appears to have constructed a reasonably persuasive recruiting story - but the real test will be what that story looks like when it is played out on the court.
Does the guy with -zero- games of coaching experience step in and perform like a wise & seasoned veteran head coach? does he masterfully utilize his assistants to compensate for any areas where he is still learning the ropes?
or - does this become another situation where learning curve issues become painfully apparent & self imposed 'pressure to deliver' - results in a dysfunctional atmosphere? - who knows.
Mullin does pass the sniff test - he has a savvy basketball mind (but one that has been soaking in the NBA for a long time) and he could do well - but think of the guys with extensive positive credentials who have gone into situations like this and ended up with mediocre results - or worse ... remember, the anointed 'savior of the program' - rarely is ....... so it would seem that it will be necessary (for fans & recruits) to view a number of episodes (maybe a few seasons) of the Mullin show before figuring if he has really forged a new highly attractive recruiting path to SJU's front door.
Does the guy with -zero- games of coaching experience step in and perform like a wise & seasoned veteran head coach? does he masterfully utilize his assistants to compensate for any areas where he is still learning the ropes?
or - does this become another situation where learning curve issues become painfully apparent & self imposed 'pressure to deliver' - results in a dysfunctional atmosphere? - who knows.
Mullin does pass the sniff test - he has a savvy basketball mind (but one that has been soaking in the NBA for a long time) and he could do well - but think of the guys with extensive positive credentials who have gone into situations like this and ended up with mediocre results - or worse ... remember, the anointed 'savior of the program' - rarely is ....... so it would seem that it will be necessary (for fans & recruits) to view a number of episodes (maybe a few seasons) of the Mullin show before figuring if he has really forged a new highly attractive recruiting path to SJU's front door.
I think the league they play in is going to be a knock against St. Johns. Add that to the fact their glory days are long gone and will probably never come back makes it much harder for them to recruit. Top it off with a first year coach their admin is really rolling the dice on. Outside of Georgetown and Nova there isn't a single team in that league that speaks big-time. Why on earth do high major recruits consider them?
Do you really think someone like a Barry Rohssen leaves a program like Kentucky because he thought Chris Mullin can't coach and SJU is in a bad league and won't be able to recruit.
Really?
I didn't say Mullin was a bad coach, I said he was a first year coach. And yes, after the league fell apart, the Big East is only a shell of its former self. Like I said, outside of Nova and Georgetown not a single team in that league has national relevance St Johns included. How St. Johns is able to recruit is a mystery to me. Why would a high major player want to play in the Big East when there are at least five better leagues to play in. Playing a Big Ten or ACC schedule is way more attractive and that can't be disputed.
I am in the court that is closer to VirginiaRUfan than Mich at this stage....we are at a point in time where SJU is really in "no-mans land" as a program......they are not getting elite kids and outside of problem child Rysheed Jordan (who is extremely talented and talked himself out of other recruiting options because there were playing time demands/requirements), they are not landing a class this year or next that would be nationally recognized as a Top 10-15 class....
Slice is a great recruiter, but he's not going to take St. John's to any new levels as a program, he will fix recruiting in the NYC area, but that remains to be seen as the resource that guarantees success like 15-20 years ago.........St. Johns' really has not ever had a recruiting issue at any point in time, they are just not a big ticket item and have settled into a range that when they do well, they are a 8-9 seed and in an off year, they are in the NIT.
The problem that St John's has, is the same problem Villanova now has....the rest of the Big East as a league doesn't have Notre Dame, Louisville, Syracuse and Pitt as statement programs to establish quality road wins or home upsets against....the league is just not a Power 5 league or feels that way when watching most of the games on TV this year.
The other problem is Villanova as your statement or standard program isn't what many people think of today......Nova thrived on being the "underdog" that upset the big boys and suddenly, all the big boys left and they are the hunted.....they don't recruit piles of talent that make anyone think they are going to dominate college basketball anytime soon. Nova was grossly overseeded in the last two tournaments and bounced in Round 2 in both seasons as a 2 and 1 seed. I think the general public in Year 3, isn't going to be so quick to "sign-off" on publically thinking another 27 win season and BE tourney title is another 1 or 2 seed, if they are ranked in the Top 5.
St. Johns will need to significantly schedule up in November and December and travel to Power 5 conference schools like they have been doing to change the perception of the league and their school. Mullin does that in our region (reputation wise), because we are in the shadows of NYC, but it's not a national brand any longer. I won't be shocked if they finish 2nd or 3rd in conference this year, it's a balanced league from top to bottom, but not impossible to move up quickly in the standings in either.
If they land Ellison and RU is his 2nd or 3rd choice, great.....but that problem is RU and St. John's are targeting the same caliber of player, which is great for RU and signals SJU is not landing the Sampson type kids that decommitted and went to LSU and not landing the Cheick Diallo national recruit types, from right in their backyard of NYC.....
Diallo and Sampson would have signaled a major shift for SJU....they didn't get either and put in a ton of effort on both. I'm more apt to see what happens over a longer term, because I've always maintained that improvement and decline in a program is never swift or quick.....it's usually gradual and doesn't appear that way on the surface, until 4 to 5 years pass and then people ask "what happened"......?? That's how I see the Big East right now, sliding backwards slowly but certainly not moving up or improving. St. John's can improve on paper quickly, but the rest of the league may not.
The competition in the Big East is very balanced, so a 24-7 record in Year 1 for Mullin is entirely possible, and would come with some hesitation before believing that the Big East as a league, provides a good litmus test for supporting that 23-24 wins as a statement that they have arrived again.
Ellison playing at RU makes more sense, but RU will add elsewhere a similar player now or next year, if SJU is the choice later today as many now expect.
Slice is a great recruiter, but he's not going to take St. John's to any new levels as a program, he will fix recruiting in the NYC area, but that remains to be seen as the resource that guarantees success like 15-20 years ago.........St. Johns' really has not ever had a recruiting issue at any point in time, they are just not a big ticket item and have settled into a range that when they do well, they are a 8-9 seed and in an off year, they are in the NIT.
The problem that St John's has, is the same problem Villanova now has....the rest of the Big East as a league doesn't have Notre Dame, Louisville, Syracuse and Pitt as statement programs to establish quality road wins or home upsets against....the league is just not a Power 5 league or feels that way when watching most of the games on TV this year.
The other problem is Villanova as your statement or standard program isn't what many people think of today......Nova thrived on being the "underdog" that upset the big boys and suddenly, all the big boys left and they are the hunted.....they don't recruit piles of talent that make anyone think they are going to dominate college basketball anytime soon. Nova was grossly overseeded in the last two tournaments and bounced in Round 2 in both seasons as a 2 and 1 seed. I think the general public in Year 3, isn't going to be so quick to "sign-off" on publically thinking another 27 win season and BE tourney title is another 1 or 2 seed, if they are ranked in the Top 5.
St. Johns will need to significantly schedule up in November and December and travel to Power 5 conference schools like they have been doing to change the perception of the league and their school. Mullin does that in our region (reputation wise), because we are in the shadows of NYC, but it's not a national brand any longer. I won't be shocked if they finish 2nd or 3rd in conference this year, it's a balanced league from top to bottom, but not impossible to move up quickly in the standings in either.
If they land Ellison and RU is his 2nd or 3rd choice, great.....but that problem is RU and St. John's are targeting the same caliber of player, which is great for RU and signals SJU is not landing the Sampson type kids that decommitted and went to LSU and not landing the Cheick Diallo national recruit types, from right in their backyard of NYC.....
Diallo and Sampson would have signaled a major shift for SJU....they didn't get either and put in a ton of effort on both. I'm more apt to see what happens over a longer term, because I've always maintained that improvement and decline in a program is never swift or quick.....it's usually gradual and doesn't appear that way on the surface, until 4 to 5 years pass and then people ask "what happened"......?? That's how I see the Big East right now, sliding backwards slowly but certainly not moving up or improving. St. John's can improve on paper quickly, but the rest of the league may not.
The competition in the Big East is very balanced, so a 24-7 record in Year 1 for Mullin is entirely possible, and would come with some hesitation before believing that the Big East as a league, provides a good litmus test for supporting that 23-24 wins as a statement that they have arrived again.
Ellison playing at RU makes more sense, but RU will add elsewhere a similar player now or next year, if SJU is the choice later today as many now expect.
How could anyone possibly know whether he's a good coach?
Good guy? Yeah
Good player? Heck yeah
Good coach? ????
Was Rohrson a good coach?
SJU has done everything right to give Mullin a chance to show his stuff but his acumen as a coach is going to be in question until he walks that walk.
anyone whose ever met or spoken to Mullin or knows his work ethic, will tell you he's second to none as a person to talk or look up to, even as a booster or donor that watched him develop as a SJU fan.
The key is Billy Donovan, Steve Kerr and Fred Hoiberg all mastered ourworking their coaches in the NBA or college by being more than a college All American and NBA all star/ NBA GM.....Mullin has a relatively easy league to coach and learn in, while he can win games. I would be shocked if he fell flat on his face....At the same time, what is SJU's current ceiling as a program?? If SJU thinks it's a top 4 seed that wins 2 games in the NCAA's every other year or every 2 out of 3 years, they are in for disappointment....the climate of college sports has changed and the results will dictate that Power 5 schools will be armed with more financial horsepower to now compete and compete with the hoops only schools for talent like Ellison or others down the road.
The Big East and local media members NEEDS Mullin to succeed in the worst way, hence the media frenzy and hype is off the charts. Normal upsets will be blown out of proportion....it will take at least 3 years to see if it sticks and I never thought SJU had a talent issue anyway, it was always game day coaching and player "development"....You will know right away after one year whether Mullin has it or doesn't, because he has resources at his disposal that other local schools don't right now.
The key is Billy Donovan, Steve Kerr and Fred Hoiberg all mastered ourworking their coaches in the NBA or college by being more than a college All American and NBA all star/ NBA GM.....Mullin has a relatively easy league to coach and learn in, while he can win games. I would be shocked if he fell flat on his face....At the same time, what is SJU's current ceiling as a program?? If SJU thinks it's a top 4 seed that wins 2 games in the NCAA's every other year or every 2 out of 3 years, they are in for disappointment....the climate of college sports has changed and the results will dictate that Power 5 schools will be armed with more financial horsepower to now compete and compete with the hoops only schools for talent like Ellison or others down the road.
The Big East and local media members NEEDS Mullin to succeed in the worst way, hence the media frenzy and hype is off the charts. Normal upsets will be blown out of proportion....it will take at least 3 years to see if it sticks and I never thought SJU had a talent issue anyway, it was always game day coaching and player "development"....You will know right away after one year whether Mullin has it or doesn't, because he has resources at his disposal that other local schools don't right now.
You have no idea what I am talking about.
Barry Rohrssen was an assistant for John Calipari at Kentucky. SJU did not hire him off the street.
Meaning he had arguably the best paying and best assistant job in the country ALREADY!!!!!
Do you think he leaves UK for similar position at Rutgers even if they could pay him, yes or no? The answer is no.
Do you think he leaves UK and Calipari for a similar position at SHU even if they could pay him, yes or no? The answer is no.
Why? Because he doesn’t think those are good jobs and good positions and doesn’t think they will win. You can disagree with him and think he is wrong but he is not leaving UK for a position on the staff at RU or SHU. Not in a million years.
So why did he leave for SJU when he had a great position already? Because he think they will win and win big. And he knows he can get players selling them with Matt and Chris.
Does that mean the winning is guaranteed? No. But my point was these coaches joined Chris Mullin because they believe it will happen or they would not have left Iowa St and Kentucky who have become perennial NCAA teams for SJU. Why would they otherwise?
I think the point is about the actual coaching of the St. John's staff not whether Rohrssen is a great recruiter. Mullin has no coaching track record and at Manhattan I'm not sure Rohrssen proved himself a good coach.
I'm sure there's a thought if not something promised that Rohrssen would be in a good position to succeed Mullin when/if Mullin rides off into the sunset. As good as a recruiting assistant Rohrssen has proven to me, I don't think big-time schools will be knocking down his door for a top job based on that and his Manhattan stint.
We must just move on. It would have been nice to land a Jersey guy but the Johnnies had more playing time available.
For those that care, says St. John's is still involved with Eli Carter too.
I am not trying to knock Mullin here nor question Rohrsen. I think SJU got it right with this staff, but these questions are ridiculous.
Do I think Barry Rohrsen would leave UK for RU if he and Eddie Jordan were buddies from HS, grew up in the same neighborhood and had been close friends for 30 years? Sure why not. Same goes for SHU. If Willard and Rohrsen grew up in Brooklyn together and went to HS together and have been close friends for 30+ years. Yes, I could see it.
Are you suggesting he left Kentucky because he thinks Mullin is a better HC than Cal and thinks SJU is a better program than Kentucky? If that is not the case (which it isn't) then why did he leave?
That would SUUUUUUUCK. The last thing I need is to see Carter put a 30 spot against us.
Great post RutgHoops
Mich - you're getting a litte defensive here. It's ok that Slice is coming back primarily for Mullin. But the suggestion that he's doing it for the SJU brand is simply silly
SJ fans should be thrilled...its a coup to get him back here...but pump the breaks a little on the rationale.
My opinion: Slice missed the East Coast action and even at Pitt felt he was a part of the NYC scene .
Kentucky wasn't a place he really liked but would have stayed unless a good offer from a known East Coast team fell in his lap.
That did when Mullin was hired by St.John's and offered him a good salary to come back to the area he is most comfortable in.
As for St John's , congrats for getting Malik and kudos to Mich for replying to my question with the day Ellison would commit and have it proved right.
Now I can go back to not caring about if the Johnnys are any good or not on the court and just consider them a school RU needs to out-recruit
in the metro area.
Jordan's ( & staff) recruiting is looking up, so maybe Slice might have to hustle his butt off to out recruit Rutgers "Shoes " :p
Kentucky wasn't a place he really liked but would have stayed unless a good offer from a known East Coast team fell in his lap.
That did when Mullin was hired by St.John's and offered him a good salary to come back to the area he is most comfortable in.
As for St John's , congrats for getting Malik and kudos to Mich for replying to my question with the day Ellison would commit and have it proved right.
Now I can go back to not caring about if the Johnnys are any good or not on the court and just consider them a school RU needs to out-recruit
in the metro area.
Jordan's ( & staff) recruiting is looking up, so maybe Slice might have to hustle his butt off to out recruit Rutgers "Shoes " :p
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