Max Roster Limit for Lacrosse Set by NCAA
- Thread starter Caliknight
- Start date
Saw that - don’t think I like it. Will further the separation btw the BIG/ACC and the rest of the country.
May also make the cost of starting a men’s program too high for entry further hurting growth of the game.
May also make the cost of starting a men’s program too high for entry further hurting growth of the game.
It means that they can fully fund up to 48 but the roster is limited to 48. It’s an additional 35 scholarships
I think this will separate the ACC and Big10 from the pack of D1 conferences even more than currently. Will Bucknell, Holy Cross or Albany fund 48? It will likely hurt the Ivies as their tuitions continue to rise and a full ride elsewhere is more available.
Ivys have unlimited “financial aid”. They will be ok.
There are so many ways this can go but the general consensus is smaller conference schools are going to feel the pain.
There are so many ways this can go but the general consensus is smaller conference schools are going to feel the pain.
So is the prevailing speculation that many smaller conferences, albeit D1, will not fund 48 ? If the vast majority of 70 D1 lax playing schools DID fund the 48 per team that’s over 2,400 more scholarships. Would D1 vacuum up more D2 and D3 talent cause they can? Would more HS prospects find homes at D3 and D2 levels because of it?
Probably. Ivy's aside, they only school's I can see funding at the max level are Acc/B1G schools.
Don't forget, there is Title 9 considerations as well that will need to be funded.
There is a lot in play but few scenarios play out well for smaller conference schools. Their alumni are going to have to step up en masse if they want to keep pace.
The more I hear about NIL at big conference schools the more it's becoming obvious the smaller conference schools are going to have trouble competing. Not really sure how this is great for the game of lacrosse as a whole but it's good we are on the right side of the ledger.
Don't forget, there is Title 9 considerations as well that will need to be funded.
There is a lot in play but few scenarios play out well for smaller conference schools. Their alumni are going to have to step up en masse if they want to keep pace.
The more I hear about NIL at big conference schools the more it's becoming obvious the smaller conference schools are going to have trouble competing. Not really sure how this is great for the game of lacrosse as a whole but it's good we are on the right side of the ledger.
They have the resources to do it, but the Ivies cannot offer a full ride to most candidates. If they tried there would be admission office leaks that would quickly end it. Watch Duke swoop in with full rides. I think they will be the biggest winner.
Harvard, Princeton and Yale are absolutely gaming the financial aid system. I would wager a lot that UPenn is too. I can't speak to Dartmouth or Brown but it wouldn't shock me. Cornell I assume does.
It's fun to say for the Ivy powers that be at their cocktail parties that they are above offering athletic scholarships but don't kid yourself. They are doing even more.
Full rides for kids from wealthy parents? Didn't happen in my time. Saw All-Ivy football players in the dining hall with work-study jobs. Do the standards get stretched? Absolutely. Do all non-wealthy students get better financial aid packages because of large endowments? Absolutely. Where Penn would stretch standards was admissions to kids they kept out of undergraduate Wharton. Harvard set an all time low in SATs to get a kid for the hockey team who was on the 1976 Olympic team (not the Dream Team) after attending Framingham St. The schools also make promises about life after college athletics. Harvard used that to get a HS AA minority lax player out of Gilman who had 1250 SATs, and that was before the scores were boosted. But his family was lower income so he would have gotten a large grant if he didn't play sports.
Full scholies? I doubt it
It’s happening. I personally know of more than a few examples. It’s happening in women’s lacrosse too.
Full financial aid packages? It some cases yes. In many cases less than they’d pay at a state school.
Full financial aid packages? It some cases yes. In many cases less than they’d pay at a state school.
Yep, they are able to stack financial aid, athletic scholarship , and then awards to get coveted layers
My friends kid just committed to Sacred Heart U, roster size is currently 58 kids.
Wonder how that will work…
I think there is a gamble on the tv audience and markets paying more in the future. LAX is growing, but I don’t know if ther money is there yet. PLL guys are working on Wall Street Monday - Thursday before leaving town to play games.
Cuts. Starting next year there can only be 48 total players. Scholarships or not.
PLL is in it's infancy. Through the 70's NFL players routinely had second jobs. The funding for the PLL is strong and the numbers are getting better every year.
I think we will see a similar trajectory as the MLS though not as robust. Those franchises have increased in value significantly. The early buy in was $3MM-$5MM a little more than 20 years ago. San Diego's cost of entry was $500MM.
PLL is in it's infancy. Through the 70's NFL players routinely had second jobs. The funding for the PLL is strong and the numbers are getting better every year.
I think we will see a similar trajectory as the MLS though not as robust. Those franchises have increased in value significantly. The early buy in was $3MM-$5MM a little more than 20 years ago. San Diego's cost of entry was $500MM.
Only Power 5 schools are subject to the settlement agreement and thus the roster limits. Any nonP5 school may opt in but that seems unlikely. The only reason they'll have to opt in is if the American U wrestling coach's rumor is true:
No, Leonard23 is correct. The 48-man roster limit is only for Power 5 schools. Non-Power 5 schools can choose to opt in to the agreement to participate in revenue sharing and no scholarship limits but would then be limited by the roster cap. I think that it is very unlikely that service academies would opt to participate in revenue sharing, so they would essentially continue operating as usual. This is likely the case for the Ivies as well. JHU would likely opt out and continue business as usual.
The service academies are essentially 100% scholorship already so opting out makes sense.
They would probably be bound by the roster cap, if they opted into this settlement, but they won't opt in.
Here is a pretty good summary.
For lacrosse it is. The way I read it is that any school that offers athletic scholarships I’ll now have a cap on players. So Hopkins can give out 48 ships but can not exceed the 48 cap. I believe that the P5 part is the revenue sharing piece
Did you read the article Cali linked to above? Terry Foy notes "That means that, in men’s lacrosse, this situation may only affect 11 programs: Duke, Maryland, Michigan, North Carolina, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Penn State, Rutgers, Syracuse, Utah and Virginia."
Non-Power 5 schools can opt to not participate in revenue sharing. This will apply to JHU.
I actually think there are two parts to the settlement one is for the Big 4 schools and the roster limits are for any school that offers athletic scholarships, the biggest issue right now is that the College guys that I have spoken to don't know the full scope of the limits. 1- can they have practice players? 2- can they have team managers that practice with the team? all issues brought up in the past week.
"While Division I schools are on the hook for the payback from the settlement, they do not have to opt in to the new proposal.
Karen Weaver, adjunct assistant professor at the University of Pennsylvania’s Graduate School of Education, focuses on how college sports and higher education coincide. A former Division I and Division III head coach and athletics administrator, she has been following the settlement and written about it in Forbes.
“If a Division I school like James Madison or someone that is not in a Power 4 conference decides not to do revenue sharing, then none of this applies for them,” Weaver said. “The revenue sharing becomes the trigger.”
That opt-out route seems more likely for schools in the Ivy League, which cannot offer scholarships anyway. It’s predicted that things would be status quo for a program that does not opt in aside from contributing the back pay to the settlement.
“If you were content offering exactly what you’re offering now, then you can keep doing it,” McGlade said.
Schools can opt in individually, or whole conferences can vote whether to opt in. And they can opt in for just one sport, though doing so would trigger the new regulations and compliance required with the settlement.
“All these schools are going to have to come up with an additional $20 million every year to pay these students and they just have to figure out where that's going to come from,” Penn men’s lacrosse coach Mike Murphy said. “It’s actually going to tighten some belts, I think, at other places more than it will affect the Ivy League.”
Division I schools’ different approaches raises more questions about competitive balance. The playing field could tilt more toward the haves than the have nots.
“There is definitely that fear of the more financially stable schools getting richer,” Gallagher said.
Weaver has written in Forbes that every school without big media contracts like those in the SEC and Big Ten “will likely face difficult financial choices to be competitive in NCAA Division I, including sport sponsorship.”
What the NCAA Antitrust Settlement Means for College Lacrosse
More scholarships, less money, unanswered questions — how a seismic change in the college athletics landscape could affect the sport.
www.usalacrosse.com
I actually think it will be all schools, what schools are going to offer full 48 schollies or more importantly the extra few hundred scholarships for all non revenue sports? You are more likely to see schools simply cut sports and focus on a much smaller number of sports. The general consensus from the people I am speaking to believes that it will not be a hollow alone but inclusive on NIL. There have already been several kids giving back the Ships because of the amount they were making with NIL which then gives those schools extra scholarships ( one school reportedly had enough NIL for 13 additional scholarships) which would be a huge recruiting advantage, this way the NCAA does not care where the money comes from but that simply a limit of players"While Division I schools are on the hook for the payback from the settlement, they do not have to opt in to the new proposal.
Karen Weaver, adjunct assistant professor at the University of Pennsylvania’s Graduate School of Education, focuses on how college sports and higher education coincide. A former Division I and Division III head coach and athletics administrator, she has been following the settlement and written about it in Forbes.
“If a Division I school like James Madison or someone that is not in a Power 4 conference decides not to do revenue sharing, then none of this applies for them,” Weaver said. “The revenue sharing becomes the trigger.”
That opt-out route seems more likely for schools in the Ivy League, which cannot offer scholarships anyway. It’s predicted that things would be status quo for a program that does not opt in aside from contributing the back pay to the settlement.
“If you were content offering exactly what you’re offering now, then you can keep doing it,” McGlade said.
Schools can opt in individually, or whole conferences can vote whether to opt in. And they can opt in for just one sport, though doing so would trigger the new regulations and compliance required with the settlement.
“All these schools are going to have to come up with an additional $20 million every year to pay these students and they just have to figure out where that's going to come from,” Penn men’s lacrosse coach Mike Murphy said. “It’s actually going to tighten some belts, I think, at other places more than it will affect the Ivy League.”
Division I schools’ different approaches raises more questions about competitive balance. The playing field could tilt more toward the haves than the have nots.
“There is definitely that fear of the more financially stable schools getting richer,” Gallagher said.
Weaver has written in Forbes that every school without big media contracts like those in the SEC and Big Ten “will likely face difficult financial choices to be competitive in NCAA Division I, including sport sponsorship.”
What the NCAA Antitrust Settlement Means for College Lacrosse
More scholarships, less money, unanswered questions — how a seismic change in the college athletics landscape could affect the sport.
I'm sorry ru, I am obviously not understanding your point. You "actually think it will be all schools" to do what exactly? My point is that not all Div 1 schools are subject to the roster caps if they choose not to participate in revenue sharing and that the vast majority of those schools with Div 1 men's lacrosse programs outside the P5 will choose to not participate.
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