Meanwhile the mess in South Orange...

[bac2therac]

I will say its uncanny that both Rutgers and Seton Hall in a hotbed of talented NYC/NJ players cannot get out of their own way and have good success. Everytime it looks like either program is ready to turn the corner the program starts blowing up in their faces. These programs seem to take turns with the curse

The hate for Willard on their board is strong. I know if we were going through the same thing most of us would want him gone. 5 years without a NCAA appearance despite coming into a fairly solid situation when Gonzo left does not seem to warrant more time especially given the implosion of this season and all the behind the scenes mayhem. He probably gets one more year to see how his supposed great recruiting class develops but I wouldn't want him back given how badly things played out in the lockerroom

so more stuff last night....first a 22 point beatdown to an awful Marquette and then reports of a SHU fan spitting on Willard after the game plus reports that the lockerroom was left a mess post game by the players who bolted leaving the assistants to clean it up.

shu

 

[PatrickRU92]

5 years with nothing to show for it is definitely cause of concern for SHOE fans. I think he has prohibitively high buy out though--don't think it's chump change. They have a lot of guys who can make shots they have no excuse for getting hammered by Marquettes worst team in 20 years.

Will be interesting to see if Gibbs comes back or chooses to use that last year somewhere else. I don't see him coming to RU btw so thats not what I'm implying alhtough if he and Sina wanted to come I woudln't be adverse.

Is Whitehead going to be the next NYC star that was highly overrated? There is a very long list of those.

Still they seem to be sitting in a better position than we are right now.

 

[bac2therac]

the buyout is $3.2 million...their board is currently in the midst of a thermonuclear meltdown for the past 18 hours. I would say that 90% want him out.

 

[PatrickRU92]

Originally posted by bac2therac:

the buyout is $3.2 million

Thats a pretty big matzo ball for a school like SHOE

 

[bac2therac]

not sure why he was given such a big extension based off of mediocre results his first few years. I realize that coaches need extensions after 3 years but in the case of guys who have done nothing results wise you have to find ways to figure out a clause...I worry about what will be done with Eddie after 3 years, I am assuming the contract is not extended and we just let it play out until he leaves.

 

[higgins3]

As they should be. Year 5. EJ is on yr 2, some would say yr1. Willard had a ton of talent this year, couldn't get a tourny. It was a young team though that was immature.

I would be mad though,too. Any good coach can pull a couple more wins out of that team. Talent was definitely there. They had a lot more talent than Rutgers had this year and we both had pretty bad seasons.

Next year if you bring in a new coach to South Orange you have a tournament team. You should.

 

[scottsdaleal]

Misery loves company.

 

[mikefla]

Loved watching SH who? tank this year

Perfect blend of unmet expectations, futility, drama and inner strife.......

 

[RUfinal4]

With SHU I think the old Big East breaking apart hurt them. With the old BE they were able to sell to recruits the ability to play Cuse, Pitt, ND, UConn, Rutgers, Louisville, and a number of schools not in the BE. The replacements were smaller basketball only name that are not local. While they have good players they may have lost out on a player or 2 that would have went to SHU in the past.

On top of that the BE is a strong conference with no weak links to beat down on. 6 of the 10 teams had 19 or more wins. There are only 3 weaker teams (Marquette, DePaul, and Creighton).

Gone (the semi-locals):
- UConn
- Rutgers
- Syracuse
- Pitt

Gone (not local):
- Louisville (Natl Powerhouse)
- Notre Dame (premier Catholic sports school)
- USF (Fl alums and able to go to FL for a game)
- Va Tech

Replaced with (not local):
- Creighton
- Butler
- Xavier

 

[ScarletRunner]

I have been reading their board since the Marquette game and I have to say I would be extremely, extremely upset also. The problems with Willard go far beyond the team's performance... his total lack of poise/presence with the media, constant excuses and deflection of blame, and general disregard for their fanbase.

He declined to play several senior starters in last night's game, despite being down ~25 at one point. His post-game comments were embarrassing and come off as a complete abdication of responsibility for their performance. He was mic'd for the game also, and was at a total loss in terms of adjustments and/or motivation.

 

[Aggs]

It's incomprehensible to bring Willard back for another year. I think the fans have every right to be upset. This is their flagship program.

The buyout is saving his butt.


This post was edited on 3/12 2:45 PM by Aggs

 

[PatrickRU92]

Another thing to consider --lets say SHOE cans Willard, I assume the new coach is going to want his own staff. Does that mean Tiny gets the heave-ho too? Not sure Whitehead would appreciate that given that its likely he wouldn't have gone to SHOE without him.

The only way around that would be to promote from within and keep the same staff other than Willard, and I don't think Shaheen Holloway is going to be the HC, although I will admit I don't know much about SHOE's staff.

 

[knights1212]

Many SHU fans are pushing for Shaheen to become the new HC so that they do not lose many of their players. One guy claims that Delgado will declare for the NBA after next season and if that is true that would be a major loss.

 

[RutgHoops]

Originally posted by PatrickRU92:
Another thing to consider --lets say SHOE cans Willard, I assume the new coach is going to want his own staff. Does that mean Tiny gets the heave-ho too? Not sure Whitehead would appreciate that given that its likely he wouldn't have gone to SHOE without him.

The only way around that would be to promote from within and keep the same staff other than Willard, and I don't think Shaheen Holloway is going to be the HC, although I will admit I don't know much about SHOE's staff.

Tiny is the biggest "problem child" at SHU right now. No way another HC, even if it is Sha, keeps him around. You could see this coming a mile away.

 

[PatrickRU92]

Originally posted by RutgHoops:

Originally posted by PatrickRU92:
Another thing to consider --lets say SHOE cans Willard, I assume the new coach is going to want his own staff. Does that mean Tiny gets the heave-ho too? Not sure Whitehead would appreciate that given that its likely he wouldn't have gone to SHOE without him.

The only way around that would be to promote from within and keep the same staff other than Willard, and I don't think Shaheen Holloway is going to be the HC, although I will admit I don't know much about SHOE's staff.

Tiny is the biggest "problem child" at SHU right now. No way another HC, even if it is Sha, keeps him around. You could see this coming a mile away.

Interesting. Care to elaborate on any specifics?

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

I don't think the Willard buyout is anywhere near 3.2M, it's probably half of that or less and that's the problem....it's perhaps 1M to 1.5M and they are unwilling to buy it out, because Whitehead and others would implode or leave OR they actually don't have the 1M to 1.5M plus what it would pay to get another coaching staff with pedigree in the building.

When Gibbs leaves after this season (not a lock but strongly rumored to be graduating in May and eligible to depart for a 5th year elsewhere), they are not going to be drastically better next year anyway, although there really isn't a reason to be worse next year with one guard as the focal point vs 2 or 3 guards needing the ball to be effective. Gibbs and Sina and Whitehead was never going to work without an elite Head Coach managing egos and minutes.

The myth that continues to make rounds is the elite local talent over the last 5 to 10 years here in NJ....it's simply incorrect at every level....sure, if you count Karl Towns and Kyrie Irving or Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, then OK yes there is NBA caliber players that are never going to Seton Hall, RU for a one and done situation.

The gap between Kyrie Irving or Kyle Anderson types and what it takes to build a 20-10 type of bubble program is alarming and there frankly isn't enough NYC/NJ talent able to support as many programs as this region requires for basketball. There are too many teams in the tri-state area and too many schools willing to pay top dollar to lure kids that are truly elite, to go to other schools.

The fact that St. Johns, Seton Hall and RU could not put together an 8 or 9 seed if you merged all three rosters is the issue....There is too much "overlap" of the same type of player, at the same talent level, at the same positions (undersized shooting guards, hybrid point guards, undersized power forwards and no true Small Forwards on any of the rosters).

The faster one of the three schools drops the ridiculous myth that you must recruit locally to win, is when that school breaks away from the pack.....Nova certainly stopped recruiting NJ at a high level and went to the DMV and PA suburbs and St Johns has made recruiting waves beyond NYC and NJ. They are the most successful of the three programs in the area and ironically the most "funded" on and off the court.

RU will be fine down the road, once revenue starts funding itself and that doesn't mean practice facility, but just dropping the notion that funds are not there for better assistants and other factors that are basic to being a decent program. SHU and RU don't have donors or the money today to make the moves needed. RU will eventually fund itself in a few years with other revenue streams. SHU is really in the boat where they rent their arena at an absurdly high amount per game, just to say they play in a "big time arena".....well not at the price tag I'm hearing about per game, no wonder they have no money to buy out Willard, it's all going to pay Prudential Center "rent".......

 

[PatrickRU92]

Originally posted by NewJerseyHawk:

The myth that continues to make rounds is the elite local talent over the last 5 to 10 years here in NJ....it's simply incorrect at every level.

I have been saying this forever and it's been longer than 10 years IMHO. In addition the so called 4 and 5 stars from NY and NJ are overrated (with exceptions of course as you noted--and as you also noted those are the guys who won't come here anyway)--think back to Roderick Rhodes and Felipe Lopez, I believe they were both #1 in the country were they not?

I can put together a very long list of NY/NJ "stars" from HS who were anything but that in college and were severely overhyped.

In fairness to RU we have tried mining the DC/MD corridor with mixed results.

 

[Aggs]

I'd say the more important region is from Canada to Vermont and to the prep powerhouses in the Connecticut/New England area.

The best players in NYC leave the state anyway - Rawle Alkins is going prep next year because his eligibility is up.

There is no longer a recruiting base in NYC and NJ is loaded at the top (Towns/MKG/Kyrie) but the rest of the state is very similar to anywhere else in the country.

I'd like to recruit Ohio - they have players Ohio State overlooks because its a national brand (Esa Ahmad, Kipper Nichols, Khalil Iverson) and they have two Nike sponsored programs All-Ohio Red and Lebron James All-Stars.

Rutgers has recruited players from Virginia (Goode), North Carolina (Bishop, R. Johnson, Diallo), Florida (Corey Sanders, target Laurent), Georgia (Kejuan Johnson), and overseas (Doorson).

It's obvious the current regime has to go outside the state for recruits, which isn't a bad idea in theory.


This post was edited on 3/12 4:25 PM by Aggs

 

[MadRU]

From zags blog an interview with Gibbs he states:

"Oh no, I'm definitely coming back," Gibbs said. "I'm at Seton Hall and that's where I'm going to be. That's where I'm going to finish it out."

Asked if it was something he might reconsider or if he's already made that decision, he said, "That's already made."



Not sure about any rumors but sure shoulds like he is staying.

 

[Knightmoves]

Did I just read that RU MBB will be fine down the road ?

 

[higgins3]

The faster one of the three schools drops the ridiculous myth that you must recruit locally to win, is when that school breaks away from the pack.....Nova certainly stopped recruiting NJ at a high level and went to the DMV and PA suburbs and St Johns has made recruiting waves beyond NYC and NJ. They are th
e most successful of the three programs in the area and ironically the most "funded" on and off the court.

This.

 

[rufeelinit]

SHU board seems to be consistently throwing out $3.2MM as the buyout figure which is why no one thinks he is leaving. But heres the question: Do you have any reason to believe EJ would have done better than 16-15 with that roster? The jury is out on that one as far as I am concerned.

 

[Knightmoves]

Originally posted by rufeelinit:
SHU board seems to be consistently throwing out $3.2MM as the buyout figure which is why no one thinks he is leaving. But heres the question: Do you have any reason to believe EJ would have done better than 16-15 with that roster? The jury is out on that one as far as I am concerned.

That's a hypothetical that cannot be answered. Do you also wonder how Willard would have done coaching RU this season ?

cause most of us don't think about those things.

 

[toby83]

they would prob love to have Danny Hurley, though he's not going anywhere with a strong returning squad.

Massielo will come up again, though Seton hall has had bad experience with shopping the MAAC. it is amazing what Masiello got out of that team which graduated their top two guys. he's nuts though.

This post was edited on 3/12 9:54 PM by toby83

 

[rufeelinit]

Originally posted by Knightmoves:

Originally posted by rufeelinit:
SHU board seems to be consistently throwing out $3.2MM as the buyout figure which is why no one thinks he is leaving. But heres the question: Do you have any reason to believe EJ would have done better than 16-15 with that roster? The jury is out on that one as far as I am concerned.

That's a hypothetical that cannot be answered. Do you also wonder how Willard would have done coaching RU this season ?

cause most of us don't think about those things.

Sure its a hypothetical but those who still think EJ can get it done believe it is unfair to judge him because the cupboard is so bare. Have you seen a game where you thought he clearly out coached the other side? Do you see evidence the guys are getting better under his tutelage or still making the same mistakes? I guess the point is that it did not seem like the most coachable bunch up there in South Orange, and I doubt EJ would have done much better based off what I have been watching the last two years. I don't see much disciplined play from his teams. This not meant to be an endorsement of Willard but its hard to be critical of anyone else's program given our situation.

 

[RU82]

I'd rather have SHU's mess than ours.

Sigh

 

[satnom]

PatRU,

Roderick Rhodes and Felipe were both national #1 players. Remember attending Hurley Sr. bball camp with Roderick and Danny. Rhodes went to Kentucky then ended up transferring to USC.

GO RU

 

[PatrickRU92]

Originally posted by satnom:
PatRU,

Roderick Rhodes and Felipe were both national #1 players. Remember attending Hurley Sr. bball camp with Roderick and Danny. Rhodes went to Kentucky then ended up transferring to USC.

GO RU

Yes neither one came anywhere close to living up to their high school billing. Neither one was even the best player on their team!

 

[e5fdny]

Originally posted by RUfinal4:
With SHU I think the old Big East breaking apart hurt them. With the old BE they were able to sell to recruits the ability to play Cuse, Pitt, ND, UConn, Rutgers, Louisville, and a number of schools not in the BE. The replacements were smaller basketball only name that are not local. While they have good players they may have lost out on a player or 2 that would have went to SHU in the past.

On top of that the BE is a strong conference with no weak links to beat down on. 6 of the 10 teams had 19 or more wins. There are only 3 weaker teams (Marquette, DePaul, and Creighton).

Gone (the semi-locals):
- UConn
- Rutgers
- Syracuse
- Pitt

Gone (not local):
- Louisville (Natl Powerhouse)
- Notre Dame (premier Catholic sports school)
- USF (Fl alums and able to go to FL for a game)
- Va Tech

Replaced with (not local):
- Creighton
- Butler
- Xavier

I have relatives (by marriage) who are NOVA guys and think the BE now is better than the old (and real) BE.

When that comes out I just take another sip of my beer which is my version of the facepalm.



.
This post was edited on 3/13 10:30 AM by e5fdny

 

[batts]

Originally posted by rufeelinit:
SHU board seems to be consistently throwing out $3.2MM as the buyout figure which is why no one thinks he is leaving. But heres the question: Do you have any reason to believe EJ would have done better than 16-15 with that roster? The jury is out on that one as far as I am concerned.

Hawk's post above is much closer to the actual buyout. I don't know where they came up with 3.2 Million.

I heard that Danny Hurley would love to come back to coach in NJ. Perhaps more important than money, is that he receive unconditional support, financially and otherwise, from whatever school that hires him.

 

[rutgersnyc]

Re: They have had some good years...

But we have had nothing for 25 years.

 

[TheBluePirate]

Originally posted by RU82:
I'd rather have SHU's mess than ours.

Sigh

Holy crap, 82, man, them's amazing words.

We'd have to duke it out over a beer somewhere, you know, playing some reverse snap - "MY program is so bad that the league removed our logo from the league banner" - nooooo - "MY program is so bad that.....


Honestly, you all can see how miserable and awful it is "over there" - misery does love company.

My take for you guys is that Eddie will learn - Willard demonstrated that he has been completely unable to learn. You do not comprehend the level of hopelessness around that statement.

I know the road is tough for you all - damn - until Barchi is gone and true facilities are built, it will be tough. But - as to Eddie, I swear man, he would have done something, anything better than Willard with the raw talent on our roster (such as it is, with its various flaws, etc).

I did enjoy rooting for you guys in games where you had it close, somehow, I hope the damned root canal stops for both of these programs.

 

[bac2therac]

Originally posted by e5fdny:

Originally posted by RUfinal4:
With SHU I think the old Big East breaking apart hurt them. With the old BE they were able to sell to recruits the ability to play Cuse, Pitt, ND, UConn, Rutgers, Louisville, and a number of schools not in the BE. The replacements were smaller basketball only name that are not local. While they have good players they may have lost out on a player or 2 that would have went to SHU in the past.

On top of that the BE is a strong conference with no weak links to beat down on. 6 of the 10 teams had 19 or more wins. There are only 3 weaker teams (Marquette, DePaul, and Creighton).

Gone (the semi-locals):
- UConn
- Rutgers
- Syracuse
- Pitt

Gone (not local):
- Louisville (Natl Powerhouse)
- Notre Dame (premier Catholic sports school)
- USF (Fl alums and able to go to FL for a game)
- Va Tech

Replaced with (not local):
- Creighton
- Butler
- Xavier

I have relatives (by marriage) who are NOVA guys and think the BE now is better than the old (and real) BE.

When that comes out I just take another sip of my beer which is my version of the facepalm.



.

This post was edited on 3/13 10:30 AM by e5fdny

for Villanova it is, much less competition and now they can dominate. They have not won a Big East tournament in 20 years despite their success...no Pitt, UConn, Syracuse, Louisville, Notre Dame and UConn make it a lot easier to win it.

 

[RutgHoops]

Originally posted by PatrickRU92:

Originally posted by RutgHoops:

Originally posted by PatrickRU92:
Another thing to consider --lets say SHOE cans Willard, I assume the new coach is going to want his own staff. Does that mean Tiny gets the heave-ho too? Not sure Whitehead would appreciate that given that its likely he wouldn't have gone to SHOE without him.

The only way around that would be to promote from within and keep the same staff other than Willard, and I don't think Shaheen Holloway is going to be the HC, although I will admit I don't know much about SHOE's staff.

Tiny is the biggest "problem child" at SHU right now. No way another HC, even if it is Sha, keeps him around. You could see this coming a mile away.

Interesting. Care to elaborate on any specifics?

I have had a bunch dribbled to me over the year. And being I knew Tiny when I played AAU ball (we are about the same age) none of it is surprising.

Some I just wouldn't post because it is all, even the below one, 2nd hand so the more "edgy" stuff I don't feel comfortable writing. But if you've read my posts at all you know I have beat this same drum all year. Tiny is bat sh-t crazy. Here you go:

When the SHU fans on the Pirate board were killing Sina about minutes and production (lack of), Tiny would print out the board posts and put them in Sina's locker.

 

[potbelly]

SJU never played up to expectations with Brian Mahoney but Lopez did score over 2000 points in his career. Sign me up for that and I'll take my chances with the rest of the team