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Mt. Edey: To double or not to double, that is the question

Degaz-RU

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Dec 19, 2002
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The question isn’t whether to start our third string center to avoid Cliff getting in foul trouble, but whether to employ the “no doubling” strategy we employed last year against Edey and Trevion Williams.

The rationale for this strategy is to “allow” Purdue to score 2s while guarding the perimeter and not allowing them to “go off” from 3-Pt range. It worked pretty well last year in the game at the RAC, as Edey/Williams scored 34 of Purdue’s 68 points but the Boilermakers only shot 7-26 from 3-Pt range.

But Purdue is only shooting about 30 percent from deep this year, and Edey is absolutely dominating their offense. So perhaps we mix up the strategy a bit.

The first thing is utilizing a full court press from time to time, and even when not full court pressing, utilizing a 3/4 court press just to burn 10-12 seconds and delay their half court sets.

The second thing is to guard their ballhandlers up tight to make it more difficult to make entry passes to the post. Combined with this, I’d like to see Cliff FRONT Edey. With our tight perimeter on-ball defense and Cliff fronting Edey, it will be difficult for Purdue to make lob passes to him.

But if Edey gets the ball on the block with Cliff behind him, to double or not to double?

Last year at the RAC, we almost exclusively did NOT double. I think this year, at Mackey (where you’d think Purdue could get more comfortable shooting from deep), we should continue this strategy, but with how much Edey dominates, I think we need to mix it up.

Our guards are very good at sagging and digging down without fouling, but our rotations will need to be quick and aggressive so that we don’t give too many open threes.

So, what say you?
 
The question isn’t whether to start our third string center to avoid Cliff getting in foul trouble, but whether to employ the “no doubling” strategy we employed last year against Edey and Trevion Williams.

The rationale for this strategy is to “allow” Purdue to score 2s while guarding the perimeter and not allowing them to “go off” from 3-Pt range. It worked pretty well last year in the game at the RAC, as Edey/Williams scored 34 of Purdue’s 68 points but the Boilermakers only shot 7-26 from 3-Pt range.

But Purdue is only shooting about 30 percent from deep this year, and Edey is absolutely dominating their offense. So perhaps we mix up the strategy a bit.

The first thing is utilizing a full court press from time to time, and even when not full court pressing, utilizing a 3/4 court press just to burn 10-12 seconds and delay their half court sets.

The second thing is to guard their ballhandlers up tight to make it more difficult to make entry passes to the post. Combined with this, I’d like to see Cliff FRONT Edey. With our tight perimeter on-ball defense and Cliff fronting Edey, it will be difficult for Purdue to make lob passes to him.

But if Edey gets the ball on the block with Cliff behind him, to double or not to double?

Last year at the RAC, we almost exclusively did NOT double. I think this year, at Mackey (where you’d think Purdue could get more comfortable shooting from deep), we should continue this strategy, but with how much Edey dominates, I think we need to mix it up.

Our guards are very good at sagging and digging down without fouling, but our rotations will need to be quick and aggressive so that we don’t give too many open threes.

So, what say you?
Excellent analysis. Cliff fronting Edey is definitely my number 1 adjustment. Pressing to get turnovers. Last year Purdue’s guards had a really hard team when pressed. This year they have 2 freshman. Put pressure and take time off shot clock because they run great sets. I truly think that Purdue will not beat us just hitting 2’s. Limit their made 3’s to around 5 , we will be in good shape.

Sometimes we will double Edey and sometimes not , depends on where he catches and where Mag is. Caleb or Paul sagging and swiping have to be smart and not leave the freshman Loyer or others open from 3.
 
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Mixed it up
I like pressuring their guards and make the pass inside difficult what I hope is the refs watch Edeys feet as he traveled at least 3 times against us in the paint last year
I don’t know if his foot work has improved but that has to be watched by the refs who of course don’t and as we know these guys don’t even see when a guy steps out of bounds!!
 
The other thing I meant to mention is that Edey is really good at finding open guys and passing out of double teams. He has come to expect double teams, so he is constantly turning and looking for shooters and cutters. He keeps the ball high above his head, so it’s really difficult to get deflections.

So we have to mix up WHERE the double comes from. It doesn’t always have to be a guard on the strong side sagging/digging. It can be a guy on the weak side running on the baseline BEHIND Edey.
 
Our biggest obstacle in my opinion isn’t Edyey but is the consistency of their guards - not so much in scoring but in playing in control. Turning our opponents over and forcing them to take bad shots that create run outs for us has been a big part of our success. I’m not sure this team is equipped to win a half court game on the road against a highly efficient offense. We’ll see.
 
I like pressuring their guards and make the pass inside difficult what I hope is the refs watch Edeys feet as he traveled at least 3 times against us in the paint last year
I don’t know if his foot work has improved but that has to be watched by the refs who of course don’t and as we know these guys don’t even see when a guy steps out of bounds!!
He is much improved this year including foot work
 
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Their guards are very good but Loyer and Smith are both freshman. We have an advantage here, especially defensively. Defense travels and should keep us hanging around unless the refs call it closely. If we were a little mentally tougher than we’ve shown, I’d expect us to win this game.
 
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Their guards are very good but Loyer and Smith are both freshman. We have an advantage here, especially defensively. Defense travels and should keep us hanging around unless the refs call it closely. If we were a little mentally tougher than we’ve shown, I’d expect us to win this game.
Admittedly, I don’t know a lot about their team - but their frosh obviously were not fazed about playing Gonzaga, Duke and WVU on neutral floors, so I doubt that will be too much of a factor at home against us. We’re going to need to play really well to win this.
 
The game is whether RU can score or get to the FT line. Can Mulcahy draw fouls....can Spencer score in a rowdy environment??

There's been a section of the fanbase completely in love with Mag over Hyatt, but I understand it's not an either/or situation.

If Mulcahy is off the ball and Simpson plays 20-25 minutes and finds space and gets past Loyer and Smith, RU "should" score and get good shots.

If you get a fair whistle and can set the 3/4 press, then yes it helps. But you have to score and that means some Mulcahy on post ups/Caleb/Hyatt etc

It's going to be difficult unless Purdue ignores Spencer.....OR Simpson plays more and gets some 1 on 1 opportunities vs their frosh guards.

Anyone complaining that Simpson has a couple of mistakes early, has to allow him to keep playing through those mistakes. He's the one player on offense who has an advantage against their defense, off the bounce......it's how Geo handled Purdue, same with RHJ and at times, Jacob Young.

The perimeter defense should allow mid range 2s all day for the RU offense.....Take those clean shots and get back on defense is what impacts Edey.
 
The question isn’t whether to start our third string center to avoid Cliff getting in foul trouble, but whether to employ the “no doubling” strategy we employed last year against Edey and Trevion Williams.

The rationale for this strategy is to “allow” Purdue to score 2s while guarding the perimeter and not allowing them to “go off” from 3-Pt range. It worked pretty well last year in the game at the RAC, as Edey/Williams scored 34 of Purdue’s 68 points but the Boilermakers only shot 7-26 from 3-Pt range.

But Purdue is only shooting about 30 percent from deep this year, and Edey is absolutely dominating their offense. So perhaps we mix up the strategy a bit.

The first thing is utilizing a full court press from time to time, and even when not full court pressing, utilizing a 3/4 court press just to burn 10-12 seconds and delay their half court sets.

The second thing is to guard their ballhandlers up tight to make it more difficult to make entry passes to the post. Combined with this, I’d like to see Cliff FRONT Edey. With our tight perimeter on-ball defense and Cliff fronting Edey, it will be difficult for Purdue to make lob passes to him.

But if Edey gets the ball on the block with Cliff behind him, to double or not to double?

Last year at the RAC, we almost exclusively did NOT double. I think this year, at Mackey (where you’d think Purdue could get more comfortable shooting from deep), we should continue this strategy, but with how much Edey dominates, I think we need to mix it up.

Our guards are very good at sagging and digging down without fouling, but our rotations will need to be quick and aggressive so that we don’t give too many open threes.

So, what say you?
All good strategies, with the keys being pressure and mixing up defenses. Also, try to beat Edey to his spot down low, play to his strong hand, and push the ball up court to tire him out. On offense, go at him and maybe get him in foul trouble.
 
The rationale for this strategy is to “allow” Purdue to score 2s while guarding the perimeter and not allowing them to “go off” from 3-Pt range.

Big difference this year is there are fewer deep threats. Last season, Purdue had 6 guys who shot more than 2.0 threes per game, and 5 of them shot .358 or better. This year, 4 of those 5 are no longer on the roster (Ivey/Stefanovic/Thompson/Hunter). Their team 3P% has dropped from .384 to .305 (somehow even lower than ours at .307)

I have a feeling we'll have guards dig down on Edey more often than we have in the past, even if it's just to show a token double-team and swipe at the ball to throw off his rhythm. We'll probably have Mag come over to trap him against the baseline at times, too.
 
All good strategies, with the keys being pressure and mixing up defenses. Also, try to beat Edey to his spot down low, play to his strong hand, and push the ball up court to tire him out. On offense, go at him and maybe get him in foul trouble.
I don't think Edey has ever been in foul trouble.
I'm not expecting that to happen tonight vs. a league opponent AT HOME.
 
Admittedly, I don’t know a lot about their team - but their frosh obviously were not fazed about playing Gonzaga, Duke and WVU on neutral floors, so I doubt that will be too much of a factor at home against us. We’re going to need to play really well to win this.
Agree with you and don’t think they will be fazed. Just saying I’d take Mulcahy, McConnell, and Simpson over Loyer, Smith, and Newman right now.
 
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From experience, I can say that the one thing about fronting is that takes a lot more energy. You really have to work your butt off. Cliff is in good shape, but I don’t think it’s something we could do all game.
 
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From experience, I can say that the one thing about fronting is that takes a lot more energy. You really have to work your butt off. Cliff is in good shape, but I don’t think it’s something we could do all game.
Then mix it up. Give their guards a different look all game and eventually those freshmen should turn it over. Our team defense which is really good will be tested tonight.
Another good point is going directly at Edey and getting him in foul trouble with shot fakes. A lost art but something that everybody including Cliff has to break out tonight.
They also have this back up center that played a couple of games in the last 2 as Edey was out , not sure the injury , and he played really well. Wolf will be on lock down mode.
 
I think we doubled TJD when we played Indiana, right?

Regardless, and I’ll have to admit I haven’t watched any Purdue games this season, Cliff needs to hold his own against elite bigs, if he’s serious about getting drafted. Unless Edey is the next coming of Hakeem Olajuwon, there are going to be a lot better bigs in the league than Edey.
 
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Pikes going to double him every time. He does it to every big we play that is any good.
The point of this thread is that Pike did NOT double Edey or Trev Williams when we played them at the RAC last year, so wondering how we will handle a much better Edey this year.

You might be right, as many teams’ strategy has been to swarm Edey and make others beat you. But I’m more inclined to think that our defense will be a big mix tonight.
 
I believe Pike will employ all the strategies mentioned above. With that said, we have a real shot at pulling off the upset if the game is called fairly, something Pike doesn't have control over. If Cliff is made to sit the majority of the first half because of 2 quick fouls, we could be in trouble.
 
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@NewJerseyHawk - I’m cherry picking your one comment about Hyatt / Mag and joining you off topic in this thread.

I don’t get the Mag v Hyatt comparison at all because they are two completely different players. Mag is a great defender and athletic defensively. Hyatt can shoot the 3’s and is athletic Offensively. Both can rebound but Hyatt gets up there. His alley oops were pretty great last game. We need both of these guys equally IMO.

As for Edey, I trust Pike to do the right thing. Perhaps the 1-3-1 trapping game is our best option to shut him down he will find the open cutters so could go either way. Let’s find out in a few hours!
 
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From experience, I can say that the one thing about fronting is that takes a lot more energy. You really have to work your butt off. Cliff is in good shape, but I don’t think it’s something we could do all game.
Also, who will rebound with Cliff fronting Edy?
 
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The question isn’t whether to start our third string center to avoid Cliff getting in foul trouble, but whether to employ the “no doubling” strategy we employed last year against Edey and Trevion Williams.

The rationale for this strategy is to “allow” Purdue to score 2s while guarding the perimeter and not allowing them to “go off” from 3-Pt range. It worked pretty well last year in the game at the RAC, as Edey/Williams scored 34 of Purdue’s 68 points but the Boilermakers only shot 7-26 from 3-Pt range.

But Purdue is only shooting about 30 percent from deep this year, and Edey is absolutely dominating their offense. So perhaps we mix up the strategy a bit.

The first thing is utilizing a full court press from time to time, and even when not full court pressing, utilizing a 3/4 court press just to burn 10-12 seconds and delay their half court sets.

The second thing is to guard their ballhandlers up tight to make it more difficult to make entry passes to the post. Combined with this, I’d like to see Cliff FRONT Edey. With our tight perimeter on-ball defense and Cliff fronting Edey, it will be difficult for Purdue to make lob passes to him.

But if Edey gets the ball on the block with Cliff behind him, to double or not to double?

Last year at the RAC, we almost exclusively did NOT double. I think this year, at Mackey (where you’d think Purdue could get more comfortable shooting from deep), we should continue this strategy, but with how much Edey dominates, I think we need to mix it up.

Our guards are very good at sagging and digging down without fouling, but our rotations will need to be quick and aggressive so that we don’t give too many open threes.

So, what say you?
And great OP, Degaz!
 
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I'm in the shut down the guards camp. Edey will get his points. The Edey/Williams combo went for 26 and 34 points in our two games last year. Their average combined point total for the year was 26.4. This year Edey is averaging 22 by himself. He's going to get 20 tonight, and I don't want Cliff to get in foul trouble trying to entirely shut him down. Play smart defense, don't commit stupid fouls and make sure the guards don't beat us off the dribble or from 3.
 
The question isn’t whether to start our third string center to avoid Cliff getting in foul trouble, but whether to employ the “no doubling” strategy we employed last year against Edey and Trevion Williams.

The rationale for this strategy is to “allow” Purdue to score 2s while guarding the perimeter and not allowing them to “go off” from 3-Pt range. It worked pretty well last year in the game at the RAC, as Edey/Williams scored 34 of Purdue’s 68 points but the Boilermakers only shot 7-26 from 3-Pt range.

But Purdue is only shooting about 30 percent from deep this year, and Edey is absolutely dominating their offense. So perhaps we mix up the strategy a bit.

The first thing is utilizing a full court press from time to time, and even when not full court pressing, utilizing a 3/4 court press just to burn 10-12 seconds and delay their half court sets.

The second thing is to guard their ballhandlers up tight to make it more difficult to make entry passes to the post. Combined with this, I’d like to see Cliff FRONT Edey. With our tight perimeter on-ball defense and Cliff fronting Edey, it will be difficult for Purdue to make lob passes to him.

But if Edey gets the ball on the block with Cliff behind him, to double or not to double?

Last year at the RAC, we almost exclusively did NOT double. I think this year, at Mackey (where you’d think Purdue could get more comfortable shooting from deep), we should continue this strategy, but with how much Edey dominates, I think we need to mix it up.

Our guards are very good at sagging and digging down without fouling, but our rotations will need to be quick and aggressive so that we don’t give too many open threes.

So, what say you?
Degaz nails it as usual. Excellent post. Essentially my exact thoughts

Switch it up then adjust to the game. If Purdue is having a hot 3 point shooting night then you have to make Edey go one on one. If they are shooting bricks then the double is more viable

Mag was masterful at the double against TJD but Edey is a different animal. Caleb Cam and Paul are all good ad digging down. We need to be fast and in sync with rotations. If a player is hot make sure we rotate to that person and give up an open look to someone else

Really think our defensive pressure against their guards can be the real key to this game
 
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All very good points, but the key to us winning is shooting at a 45+ FG %, hitting our foul shots, and keeping them out of the bonus before the 5 minute mark of the halves.
 
Edey is good only because of his height not his talent. He is entirely unimpressive talent wise.
 
Edey is good only because of his height not his talent. He is entirely unimpressive talent wise.
I don't care for the guy, but his hands are pretty good. He rarely fumbles with the ball when it's passed to him. He seems pretty good at passing to his teammates when the double-team comes.
And he's pretty efficient when he gets position down low.
I'll be glad when he uses up his eligibility.
 
I don't care for the guy, but his hands are pretty good. He rarely fumbles with the ball when it's passed to him. He seems pretty good at passing to his teammates when the double-team comes.
And he's pretty efficient when he gets position down low.
I'll be glad when he uses up his eligibility.
Yea but he's not a next level (NBA) player. Only clean up and layups around the rim not actual jump shot ability. Very clumsy with his body. He did have those two wild passes out of a double team. One that Painter caught in the first and one in the second that his player luckily saved at the byline. Again, if he's not as tall as he is, he's not a college basketball player.
 
Yea but he's not a next level (NBA) player. Only clean up and layups around the rim not actual jump shot ability. Very clumsy with his body. He did have those two wild passes out of a double team. One that Painter caught in the first and one in the second that his player luckily saved at the byline. Again, if he's not as tall as he is, he's not a college basketball player.
I mean, that's like saying "If Randy Johnson wasn't 6-10 and didn't throw a 98 MPH fastball, he wouldn't have been a major league pitcher."

Fact is, Edey IS 7-4, and is dominant at the college level. You can't argue with 22 ppg and 13 rpg. To borrow a phrase from Pike, Edey "is a problem," and if Purdue had better/more experienced guard play, they'd be a lock to win the Big Ten regular season title.
 
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Was anyone else surprised that on the final possession, Edey kept kicking it out to the perimeter instead of turning around and shooting? Either he makes the two pointer to go up one, or he takes the free throws that he's almost guaranteed to get from the refs. We were a little lucky that dude that took the three missed. He had an open look. But after being on the wrong side of it against Miami, OSU, and SHU, it was nice to get a close win in this game. Karma still owes us a few more.
 
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Was anyone else surprised that on the final possession, Edey kept kicking it out to the perimeter instead of turning around and shooting? Either he makes the two pointer to go up one, or he takes the free throws that he's almost guaranteed to get from the refs. We were a little lucky that dude that took the three missed. He had an open look. But after being on the wrong side of it against Miami, OSU, and SHU, it was nice to get a close win in this game. Karma still owes us a few more.
He was a little further from the basket than he likes to be ….think that has something to do with itn
 
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Yea but he's not a next level (NBA) player. Only clean up and layups around the rim not actual jump shot ability. Very clumsy with his body. He did have those two wild passes out of a double team. One that Painter caught in the first and one in the second that his player luckily saved at the byline. Again, if he's not as tall as he is, he's not a college basketball player.
Played Hockey and baseball so yeah likely one of those if he were smaller
 
Yea but he's not a next level (NBA) player. Only clean up and layups around the rim not actual jump shot ability. Very clumsy with his body. He did have those two wild passes out of a double team. One that Painter caught in the first and one in the second that his player luckily saved at the byline. Again, if he's not as tall as he is, he's not a college basketball player.
I have almost no interest in "the next level"...haven't watched a game in years.
So, I'll take your word that his skills don't translate into a successful NBA career.
 
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