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My assessment of OSU/RU...

jerzey devil

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Aug 16, 2004
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Couldn't start off any worse... Like Goodale said in post match.. 174 worst place to start... Tough going in knowing the outcome isn't really going to be in doubt... Definite lack of buzz in building.... Good crowd at over 5k.... Now onto wrestling...

125... Suriano... He doesn't care who he wrestles.. He goes out and "does what he does" Which is attack with excellent fundamental wrestling. .. He's not an exciting wrestler from a flashy standpoint.. But he is ALWAYS in good position, and a step ahead of his opponents...

133.. Delvecchio... Think he has to be on the attack from the start of he sees Pletcher again... Think he gave Pletcher just a lil too much respect... Def. feel Scotty can beat him...(Hopefully he realizes it also)

141... MVB... Tough matchup for him.. McKenna just on another level...MVB didn't back down...But needs to work on keeping his body in good positions against better wrestlers... He's gaining some valuable experience this year..Should serve him well down the road...

149.. DeLuca... Got a lil sloppy late in 2nd which hurt him at the time... Glad to see him stay on the attack in 3rd... It paid off... Crowd was waiting to explode.. He gave us a reason too!! Hopefully he can build on this as we get into the B1G season...

157 ...JVB... Double edges sword... He gets himself into weird positions.. Sometimes he winds up scoring big.. Today was the other side of the sword... One can never really count him out of a match though.. Today was just outclassed...

165... Lewis... Good match for him... Against a real strong kid...was able to finish when it counted... Hell of a scramble in I think 2nd period? Not too many can escape that without giving up anything... Get a couple more wins for confidence before Penn St... Still not sure where he fits in at this weight yet..

174... Grello... Needs to get bigger at this weight..Hopefully he puts in the work in the weight room this off season cuz he showed he belonged out there against a 3time AA... He's not at that level.. But he isn't as far behind as some on here were crowing about earlier this year... Good match for him..Now he has to build on it...

184... Pagano... I blinked and it was over...literally... Martin is a stud..Just ask Bo Nickal... Woulda been a real talk order for a healthy Gravina...

197... Messner... Did his job only giving up 1 bonus point... Good depth wrestler who wrestles hard in his limited opportunities...

285... Gross... Really disappointed here... He coulda beat that crumb bum!!! Lol.. 5000+ fans in NJ got a real treat... Not every day a 2 time works senior champ and Olympic gold medalist comes to town... I may not like Ohio State.. But I can watch Snyder wrestle all day long... A generational talent with a lunch pail work ethic... Haven't ever seen an opposing wrestler get a standing ovation in the RAC before... But deservedly so...

All in all... Some good, some bad... I thought 4 wins was absolute best case scenario..And we nearly achieved that.. OSU is the BEST dual team in the country.. I think head to head they're better than PSU.. As there isn't 1 hole in this lineup...
 
Couldn't start off any worse... Like Goodale said in post match.. 174 worst place to start... Tough going in knowing the outcome isn't really going to be in doubt... Definite lack of buzz in building.... Good crowd at over 5k.... Now onto wrestling...

125... Suriano... He doesn't care who he wrestles.. He goes out and "does what he does" Which is attack with excellent fundamental wrestling. .. He's not an exciting wrestler from a flashy standpoint.. But he is ALWAYS in good position, and a step ahead of his opponents...

133.. Delvecchio... Think he has to be on the attack from the start of he sees Pletcher again... Think he gave Pletcher just a lil too much respect... Def. feel Scotty can beat him...(Hopefully he realizes it also)

141... MVB... Tough matchup for him.. McKenna just on another level...MVB didn't back down...But needs to work on keeping his body in good positions against better wrestlers... He's gaining some valuable experience this year..Should serve him well down the road...

149.. DeLuca... Got a lil sloppy late in 2nd which hurt him at the time... Glad to see him stay on the attack in 3rd... It paid off... Crowd was waiting to explode.. He gave us a reason too!! Hopefully he can build on this as we get into the B1G season...

157 ...JVB... Double edges sword... He gets himself into weird positions.. Sometimes he winds up scoring big.. Today was the other side of the sword... One can never really count him out of a match though.. Today was just outclassed...

165... Lewis... Good match for him... Against a real strong kid...was able to finish when it counted... Hell of a scramble in I think 2nd period? Not too many can escape that without giving up anything... Get a couple more wins for confidence before Penn St... Still not sure where he fits in at this weight yet..

174... Grello... Needs to get bigger at this weight..Hopefully he puts in the work in the weight room this off season cuz he showed he belonged out there against a 3time AA... He's not at that level.. But he isn't as far behind as some on here were crowing about earlier this year... Good match for him..Now he has to build on it...

184... Pagano... I blinked and it was over...literally... Martin is a stud..Just ask Bo Nickal... Woulda been a real talk order for a healthy Gravina...

197... Messner... Did his job only giving up 1 bonus point... Good depth wrestler who wrestles hard in his limited opportunities...

285... Gross... Really disappointed here... He coulda beat that crumb bum!!! Lol.. 5000+ fans in NJ got a real treat... Not every day a 2 time works senior champ and Olympic gold medalist comes to town... I may not like Ohio State.. But I can watch Snyder wrestle all day long... A generational talent with a lunch pail work ethic... Haven't ever seen an opposing wrestler get a standing ovation in the RAC before... But deservedly so...

All in all... Some good, some bad... I thought 4 wins was absolute best case scenario..And we nearly achieved that.. OSU is the BEST dual team in the country.. I think head to head they're better than PSU.. As there isn't 1 hole in this lineup...

Very good assessment!!!!!!!
 
OSU is the BEST dual team in the country.. I think head to head they're better than PSU.. As there isn't 1 hole in this lineup...

We'll see. Rutgers did win one they "shouldn't have" and didn't really lose anything except points in ones they should have. The tossup at 133 went against them. I think Rutgers will win two weight classes against Penn State, but that's sort of where they were at today. With the exception of the DeLuca late comeback (what was Hayes thinking?), everything went chalk. Rutgers did wrestle much better overall than they did against Iowa at least.

The Penn State/Ohio State is definitely the dual of the year. I see it as Penn State winning 149-184, with Ohio State being favorites at 141 and 197 (and close matches at 174 and 184) but not huge favorites so the home match could play a role - a 5/5 match split. In the end, it could come down to bonus points and who Ryan holds back to protect seeds (Nato today, BoJo last season against Penn State, ....). Penn State has the bonus point edge.

It's going to be a good one.
 
We'll see. Rutgers did win one they "shouldn't have" and didn't really lose anything except points in ones they should have. The tossup at 133 went against them. I think Rutgers will win two weight classes against Penn State, but that's sort of where they were at today. With the exception of the DeLuca late comeback (what was Hayes thinking?), everything went chalk. Rutgers did wrestle much better overall than they did against Iowa at least.

The Penn State/Ohio State is definitely the dual of the year. I see it as Penn State winning 149-184, with Ohio State being favorites at 141 and 197 (and close matches at 174 and 184) but not huge favorites so the home match could play a role - a 5/5 match split. In the end, it could come down to bonus points and who Ryan holds back to protect seeds (Nato today, BoJo last season against Penn State, ....). Penn State has the bonus point edge.

It's going to be a good one.

Where do u see PSU having bonus edge vs OSU besides 149, 157, possibly 165? OSU has bonus potential at 125, 133, 141, 197, 285... 174, 184 PSU is slightly favored... I also don't see Ryan holding anyone back... Like I said, I stand by my statement of Ohio St being the better dual team... But in a tourney setting PSU is a slight favorite... I also disagree with ur last sentence... It won't be a good one... It will be the match of the year!! Thank God it's on BTN and not Flo this time!!
 
Where do u see PSU having bonus edge vs OSU besides 149, 157, possibly 165? OSU has bonus potential at 125, 133, 141, 197, 285... 174, 184 PSU is slightly favored... I also don't see Ryan holding anyone back... Like I said, I stand by my statement of Ohio St being the better dual team... But in a tourney setting PSU is a slight favorite... I also disagree with ur last sentence... It won't be a good one... It will be the match of the year!! Thank God it's on BTN and not Flo this time!!

PSU bonus potential at 149, 157, 165 (Joseph majored Campbell last year), no way is tOSU getting bonus at 133 or 141. McKenna the favorite vs Lee but he better pack a lunch because Lee will keep coming and could pull upset

I see PSU at 149, 157, 165, 174, 184. That’s five favored with 3 potential bonus. tOSU is favored at Heavy and 125. 133 is edge to Pletcher but he don’t win by much. 197 Moore will have his hands full with rasheed or Cassar

Like Matter I have it 5-5 with potential upsets at 133, 141 and 197 for PSU. TOSU can get potential upsets at 174 and 184. Should be good dual but PSU usually embarrasses teams that thought they had a shot (see Okie State and tOSU last year

In last 3 yrs the only time PSU has lost is on message boards

Rutgers will win at 125 and probably 133 vs PSU but that’s not a definite. Lewis won’t come close to a Joseph
 
Where do u see PSU having bonus edge vs OSU besides 149, 157, possibly 165? OSU has bonus potential at 125, 133, 141, 197, 285... 174, 184 PSU is slightly favored... I also don't see Ryan holding anyone back... Like I said, I stand by my statement of Ohio St being the better dual team... But in a tourney setting PSU is a slight favorite... I also disagree with ur last sentence... It won't be a good one... It will be the match of the year!! Thank God it's on BTN and not Flo this time!!
Pletcher''s career bonus rate is 20.5%. The only guys he has ever bonused have Wrestlestat rankings of at least 150, most in 200s.
 
I think OSU wins 125, 133, 141, 191 and 285. Then I think they will win 1 of the bouts from 149-184.
 
Where do u see PSU having bonus edge vs OSU besides 149, 157, possibly 165? OSU has bonus potential at 125, 133, 141, 197, 285... 174, 184 PSU is slightly favored... I also don't see Ryan holding anyone back... Like I said, I stand by my statement of Ohio St being the better dual team... But in a tourney setting PSU is a slight favorite... I also disagree with ur last sentence... It won't be a good one... It will be the match of the year!! Thank God it's on BTN and not Flo this time!!

One, you saw Moore yesterday. I think his bonus potential against either of the two PSU 197 guys is very limited.

Two, Pletcher is not a bonus point machine and neither is McKenna - so a "fluke" event for any bonus at those 3 weights.

Three, the last time Snyder and Nevills wrestled, Snyder won by ten. I think 1 bonus point for tOSU is about right.

Four, who knows if Nato even wrestles. But, yeah, one or two points there if he does.

Five, Zain gets 3 bonus by himself. Nolf gets 2 or 3. Right there, PSU has the edge on bonus.

Six, last year at tOSU's home match against Penn State, with the largest crowd in the program's history, Ryan held out BoJo. If he did that, I see him holding someone back at any time, any place - even if it costs him a dual.
 
One, you saw Moore yesterday. I think his bonus potential against either of the two PSU 197 guys is very limited.

Two, Pletcher is not a bonus point machine and neither is McKenna - so a "fluke" event for any bonus at those 3 weights.

Three, the last time Snyder and Nevills wrestled, Snyder won by ten. I think 1 bonus point for tOSU is about right.

Four, who knows if Nato even wrestles. But, yeah, one or two points there if he does.

Five, Zain gets 3 bonus by himself. Nolf gets 2 or 3. Right there, PSU has the edge on bonus.

Six, last year at tOSU's home match against Penn State, with the largest crowd in the program's history, Ryan held out BoJo. If he did that, I see him holding someone back at any time, any place - even if it costs him a dual.

Guess we'll find out in a few weeks...
 
I think OSU wins 125, 133, 141, 191 and 285. Then I think they will win 1 of the bouts from 149-184.

You are correct on the favored bouts for tOSU. The difference will be bonus which PSU will have more and which team could pull an upset..I feel better chance of PSU upsetting one of the 133,141 and 197 bouts than I do tOSU upsetting one of 174/184..we'll see soon enough
 
The DeLuca match is one of the highlights of the 2017-18 year in Rutgers sports. I do not think I have seen a more exciting sports moment this year.
Suriano is a take down machine. I have seen him 3 times now and he teched all 3 opponents. And he can do it without back points.

Snyder is so smooth and quick for a heavy weight. He fooled Gross into giving him an opening and then pinned in one quick move.
 
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Couldn't start off any worse... Like Goodale said in post match.. 174 worst place to start... Tough going in knowing the outcome isn't really going to be in doubt... Definite lack of buzz in building.... Good crowd at over 5k.... Now onto wrestling...

125... Suriano... He doesn't care who he wrestles.. He goes out and "does what he does" Which is attack with excellent fundamental wrestling. .. He's not an exciting wrestler from a flashy standpoint.. But he is ALWAYS in good position, and a step ahead of his opponents...

133.. Delvecchio... Think he has to be on the attack from the start of he sees Pletcher again... Think he gave Pletcher just a lil too much respect... Def. feel Scotty can beat him...(Hopefully he realizes it also)

141... MVB... Tough matchup for him.. McKenna just on another level...MVB didn't back down...But needs to work on keeping his body in good positions against better wrestlers... He's gaining some valuable experience this year..Should serve him well down the road...

149.. DeLuca... Got a lil sloppy late in 2nd which hurt him at the time... Glad to see him stay on the attack in 3rd... It paid off... Crowd was waiting to explode.. He gave us a reason too!! Hopefully he can build on this as we get into the B1G season...

157 ...JVB... Double edges sword... He gets himself into weird positions.. Sometimes he winds up scoring big.. Today was the other side of the sword... One can never really count him out of a match though.. Today was just outclassed...

165... Lewis... Good match for him... Against a real strong kid...was able to finish when it counted... Hell of a scramble in I think 2nd period? Not too many can escape that without giving up anything... Get a couple more wins for confidence before Penn St... Still not sure where he fits in at this weight yet..

174... Grello... Needs to get bigger at this weight..Hopefully he puts in the work in the weight room this off season cuz he showed he belonged out there against a 3time AA... He's not at that level.. But he isn't as far behind as some on here were crowing about earlier this year... Good match for him..Now he has to build on it...

184... Pagano... I blinked and it was over...literally... Martin is a stud..Just ask Bo Nickal... Woulda been a real talk order for a healthy Gravina...

197... Messner... Did his job only giving up 1 bonus point... Good depth wrestler who wrestles hard in his limited opportunities...

285... Gross... Really disappointed here... He coulda beat that crumb bum!!! Lol.. 5000+ fans in NJ got a real treat... Not every day a 2 time works senior champ and Olympic gold medalist comes to town... I may not like Ohio State.. But I can watch Snyder wrestle all day long... A generational talent with a lunch pail work ethic... Haven't ever seen an opposing wrestler get a standing ovation in the RAC before... But deservedly so...

All in all... Some good, some bad... I thought 4 wins was absolute best case scenario..And we nearly achieved that.. OSU is the BEST dual team in the country.. I think head to head they're better than PSU.. As there isn't 1 hole in this lineup...


My thoughts:

Somehow, this felt like a win. Maybe it was leaving on a high note but I think we performed well.

125-- Believe it or not, I am worried about NS title shot. He has beaten up on weak competition but ranked guys have been 1 point wins (unless I missed some of his matches?)-- Something isn't right. I think it'll get corrected.

133-- I was impressed with SDV. I hope he knows JUST how close he is to being a top 3 guy at this weight.

141--- I loved the effort, HATED the after match. MVB stormed off the mat in a huff, even Coach G was looking at him like "wtf". I don't know why he was upset.

149-- Go Greco every match!! If he can set-up the top guys in the weight (and have them flat out pinned), there is no reason he shouldn't be throwing chumps around and scoring huge team points. I loved seeing this match!!

157-- JVB is much closer than I thought to an AA. Micah is another well coached work-out machine whose technique and mat IQ are impressive. His dad is arguably the best high school coach ever. To have kept that match as close as it was should give JVB some confidence, no?

165--- Richie had a good win, but he doesn't like hands to the head. He is leaning out of hand fighting before it starts. It's an easy thing to scout, so I hope he fixes it before March and gets the success he is capable of.

174-- I like the future with Grello.

184-- No comment since it wasn't Gravina.

197 -- Same since it wasn't mulligan

HWT -- we got to see the GOAT!! Gross wasn't up for the challenge (he looked defeated before he stepped on the mat). I hope gross can qualify the weight for us.
 
I was most impressed with Lewis then what I saw of him at Midlands.... His quickness and scrambling ability vs Campbell was off the charts. Hope he continues on this path, will be a tough out for most

The DeLuca match is what wrestling fans live to see... I replayed it about a dozen times
 
Gross is hard to figure. The first time he wrestled Snyder, it was a very entertaining and relatively competitive match. I was impressed by his attitude, approach and effort. The last couple of times, not so much.

I don't hold as high an opinion of Micah Jordan as you do. I think he is pretty much like his ranking (6) or a bit lower. Wouldn't shock me to see him R12. So if someone is thinking AA, they'd better beat Micah, not keep it close (which JVB's match wasn't - 5 takedowns to 0).
 
RU Takedowns vs tOSU Takedowns
125: 11 - 0
133: 0 - 1
141: 0 - 5
149: 2 - 0
157: 0 - 5
165: 1 - 0
174: 0 - 3
184: 0 - 1
197: 0 - 8
HWT: 0 - 3

Disagree with keeping the match close is a good sign, keeping a match close doesn't mean you're in the match at all.
 
RU Takedowns vs tOSU Takedowns
125: 11 - 0
133: 0 - 1
141: 0 - 5
149: 2 - 0
157: 0 - 5
165: 1 - 0
174: 0 - 3
184: 0 - 1
197: 0 - 8
HWT: 0 - 3

Disagree with keeping the match close is a good sign, keeping a match close doesn't mean you're in the match at all.

That's good data. But I think Lewis had two takedowns (or am I recalling incorrectly?). Fact is that if you take away Suriano's 11, Rutgers had 3 or 4 takedowns on the day, which is not being competitive.
 
RU Takedowns vs tOSU Takedowns
125: 11 - 0
133: 0 - 1
141: 0 - 5
149: 2 - 0
157: 0 - 5
165: 1 - 0
174: 0 - 3
184: 0 - 1
197: 0 - 8
HWT: 0 - 3

Disagree with keeping the match close is a good sign, keeping a match close doesn't mean you're in the match at all.
Hard to get takedowns when you don't shoot or wait for the last 20-30 seconds of the match to shoot. We need to be more offensive and shoot a lot more. Enough of the counter BS.
 
Hard to get takedowns when you don't shoot or wait for the last 20-30 seconds of the match to shoot. We need to be more offensive and shoot a lot more. Enough of the counter BS.

I've said it before - it's a problem with the culture. More often than not, Rutgers seems to be looking to win 1 takedown matches instead of scoring and going for bonus at every opportunity. The only guy who is an exception started his college career somewhere else.
 
Fact is that if you take away Suriano's 11, Rutgers had 3 or 4 takedowns on the day, which is not being competitive.
Good point. I felt Rutgers was generally passive & counter wrestling with few exceptions. Mostly trying to keep it close. Lewis & Nick the exceptions. DeLuca let it all hang out when he had no choice. Give him credit for showing team how to not be afraid to attack

Watching tOSU shooting and scoring showed how far Rutgers still needs to go.. At least they are making strides
 
I've said it before - it's a problem with the culture. More often than not, Rutgers seems to be looking to win 1 takedown matches instead of scoring and going for bonus at every opportunity. The only guy who is an exception started his college career somewhere else.
I don't believe that it's a cultural thing, as the coaches preach attacking and being offensive and always looking to score. Instead, it comes down to talent and confidence. The lesser talented need to be more confident to attack and go for it, and we need more talent.
 
I don't believe that it's a cultural thing, as the coaches preach attacking and being offensive and always looking to score. Instead, it comes down to talent and confidence. The lesser talented need to be more confident to attack and go for it, and we need more talent.

It's complicated. A lot of coaches preach or say the same kind of thing, but it doesn't show up on the mat. So I think the culture goes deeper than coaches' soundbites. But you are right about the talent. That certainly plays into it.
 
The NCAA Wrestling rules committee should have a rule making it a necessity for each wrestler to shoot at least twice a minute from neutral. Penalty if you don’t. Free style has something similar. Too much dancing.


Back points should be given quicker as well, maybe just a quick exposure or a 1 count for 1 point.
 
It's complicated. A lot of coaches preach or say the same kind of thing, but it doesn't show up on the mat. So I think the culture goes deeper than coaches' soundbites. But you are right about the talent. That certainly plays into it.

If we put PSU to the side, who is the program that has the culture you are always talking about? Who is the aggressively coached program that comes out of a dual with OSU with a comparable amount of takedowns?
 
If we put PSU to the side, who is the program that has the culture you are always talking about? Who is the aggressively coached program that comes out of a dual with OSU with a comparable amount of takedowns?

Probably almost every top 20 team gets 4 takedowns, most would get more.

But that's kind of the point. Coaches see Penn State's success and say the right things, but there is something preventing them from breaking through and changing the culture. Kids remain afraid to shoot. Even Ohio State was a bit on the unaggressive side yesterday.

I was watching the Illinois/Nebraska match last week and they were struggling to get 100 match points between them. That's kind of typical.
 
Probably almost every top 20 team gets 4 takedowns, most would get more.

But that's kind of the point. Coaches see Penn State's success and say the right things, but there is something preventing them from breaking through and changing the culture. Kids remain afraid to shoot. Even Ohio State was a bit on the unaggressive side yesterday.

I was watching the Illinois/Nebraska match last week and they were struggling to get 100 match points between them. That's kind of typical.

To be fair..PSU has the best coaching staff, the GOAT in Sanderson who was one of a kind. Cunningham is the best assistant coach in the business. Sanderson gets to pick and choose which wrestlers "fit" his philosphy and then coaches them up to National Championship status like no other.

To try to compare Goodale and all these other programs to that is unfair IMO. By the time these other programs catch up to what PSU is doing, they're already doing something else. Bottom line Cael and his ways have changed the game.

It's like trying to compare a QB to Tom Brady..you can teach all the things he does but he's still the best in the business..

I am a PSU fan first, RU 2nd. I like what Goodale's trying to do. Delvechio should have pushed the pace more from the beginning, but other than that, who underperformed from RU?

I think a key for RU and a lot of these other programs is trying to find the DeSanto types..kids that just go after it offensively but have holes in other areas. I think you can fix the holes, but it's hard to get kids to go after it that never had in the past
 
Delvechio should have pushed the pace more from the beginning, but other than that, who underperformed from RU?

I have to choose between 7 guys who didn't get a single takedown? I don't mind the win/losses, I think Rutgers performed pretty much to expectations there, but 7 guys with no takedowns?
 
I have to choose between 7 guys who didn't get a single takedown? I don't mind the win/losses, I think Rutgers performed pretty much to expectations there, but 7 guys with no takedowns?

Cmon now..was Gross going to get a takedown against Snyder? A bumped up Pagano to Martin? A backup to Moore? Maybe you can say VanBrill, but other than that, I don't see it..these guys were outclassed

And they didn't perform to expectations..they exceeded them. No one was picking more than 2 for RU (Suriano/Lewis). DeLuca far exceeded and threw around Hayes like a rag doll
 
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Probably almost every top 20 team gets 4 takedowns, most would get more.

But that's kind of the point. Coaches see Penn State's success and say the right things, but there is something preventing them from breaking through and changing the culture. Kids remain afraid to shoot. Even Ohio State was a bit on the unaggressive side yesterday.

I was watching the Illinois/Nebraska match last week and they were struggling to get 100 match points between them. That's kind of typical.

Okay. So its just PSU. Glad we settled that. I definitely think you can stop harping on it now. I mean, if you, as a PSU fan, are going to harp on this "culture" and attacking style, and it all really boils down to PSU is awesome and everyone else sucks, its kind of meaningless.

You have no point. All you do is trash our program, and put enough window dressing on it that you don't get banned.
 
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I'll mention something that hasn't been brought up too much so far, that I think was impressive about Richie's win: Campbell is freaking ripped.

That actually got me thinking, nearly EVERY OSU wrestler they have, is in ridiculous shape. It's clear they have very low body fat %.

Is that something that is holding us back? I can't think of any of our wrestlers besides Suriano that are overly muscular who can use brute strength for a take down.

I am aware that there are plenty of great wrestlers that aren't overly muscular (Jack, Nickal, etc), but those are guys who have mastered wrestling technique(s). Attacking in wrestling at the college level is all about being quick to an ankle/leg, and being strong enough to finish through an opponent who's strength is equal to or greater. Lewis did this yesterday against Campbell, he got in on a leg and was able to finish. That was impressive.

The next step we need to make offensively is finishing our attacks, like top quality guys do.
 
How many take downs will Minn get? NW get? Nebraska get? Once you get past OSU , PSU and maybe Ok St. Things drop off fast.

Matter has accomplished one thing. He will have everyone rooting for Ohio St to beat Penn St.
 
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Is that something that is holding us back? I can't think of any of our wrestlers besides Suriano that are overly muscular who can use brute strength for a take down..

Honestly, I think that has nothing to do with it. tOSU obviously like their guys to look like bodybuilders to each their own. You can be ridiculosuly strong without having bodybuilder muscles. Some would say those huge guys lack in the flexibility department/scrambling.
 
RU Takedowns vs tOSU Takedowns
125: 11 - 0
133: 0 - 1
141: 0 - 5
149: 2 - 0
157: 0 - 5
165: 1 - 0
174: 0 - 3
184: 0 - 1
197: 0 - 8
HWT: 0 - 3

Disagree with keeping the match close is a good sign, keeping a match close doesn't mean you're in the match at all.

Honestly, these stats are very situational. It's about the identity of each wrestler and how they achieve wins. The amount of take downs you expect Jason Tsirtsis/ Dean Heil , to get is different from the amount you expect from Bo Nickal / Seth Gross.

A lot of our guys were actually trying to keep it close, not giving up major points. By having that mindset, they didnt take the risks they normally would.
 
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A lot of our guys were actually trying to keep it close, not giving up major points. By having that mindset, they didnt take the risks they normally would.

And this is why I would never want a dual format to choose our National Championship team. Do you want the championship team to have the most turtles or the team that gets after it and scores the most points?
 
All you do is trash our program, and put enough window dressing on it that you don't get banned.

Trash the program? Where? I said they wrestled a lot better against Ohio State than they did against Iowa. I said they wrestled to expectations Sunday. How is that trashing them?

And they didn't perform to expectations..they exceeded them. No one was picking more than 2 for RU (Suriano/Lewis). DeLuca far exceeded and threw around Hayes like a rag doll

I kind of expect one guy to surprise in front of a big home crowd. DeLuca was that guy, but it wasn't like DeLuca was ranked that much below Hayes. I think they performed pretty much in line with expectations.

But they looked like they were trying not to lose big, and being very conservative in doing it, which basically meant they wrestled to keep the dual score respectable, not to win.
 
I would have loved to see if matter was this pessemistic about PSU in the early 2000s when they had losing records and didnt have a team loaded with national champs.
 
I kind of expect one guy to surprise in front of a big home crowd. DeLuca was that guy, but it wasn't like DeLuca was ranked that much below Hayes. I think they performed pretty much in line with expectations.
.

Lol..now you're moving the goal posts. If you predict 2 winners and they have 2 winners they "met" expectations. If they got 1, they were below, if they got 3 they exceeded.

Hayes was ranked 5 or 6 last time I checked, and Deluca was barely in top 20, so I'd say that's a big upset. Hayes may have been a little over rated to begin with, but still..did you or ANYONE you know think Deluca had a shot against Hayes? Be honest..
 
I would have loved to see if matter was this pessemistic about PSU in the early 2000s when they had losing records and didnt have a team loaded with national champs.

Dark days. Couldn't wait to see Sunderland go. At least there three champs and three top 10 finishes mixed in there.
 
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