National Minimum Wage bill

Discussion in 'Current Events, Politics and Off Topic Banter' started by RUfinal4, Jun 14, 2019.

  1. RUfinal4

    RUfinal4 Heisman Winner
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    https://thehill.com/policy/finance/448499-centrist-democrats-raise-concerns-about-15-minimum-wage

    Interesting article and I kind of agree.

    In my opinion the minimum wage needs to go up with inflation each year but raising it to high will have negative impacts, especially on small businesses and traditional retailers.

    SF, NYC, and DC need to be at the $15 an hour but Harrisburg, Iowa City, and even Tuscon probably don't.

    The Fair minimum wage act of 2007 set the current rate of $7.25. Considering that is 12 years ago it probably needs to grow.

    Based on 1.5% inflation a year over the 12 years the rate should be $8.67 an hour now and $8.80 in 2020.

    I would support a bill moving the level to $8.75 in 2020 with an annual adjustment based on CPI. Maybe something like the avg of the CPI over the past 5 years to avoid a big jump based on a high 1 year CPI.

    Then places like NYC and SF can establish higher rates for their jurisdictions.
     
  2. ashokan

    ashokan All American
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    I'm in full agreement with the people who say higher minimums are bad for economy, and that younger, unskilled workers who will lose jobs. BUT - I cant hardly defend against it watching the way pols and business leaders waste billions and then cry over $15 an hour. China rips US off for 600 billion a year, and all the powers that be let it happen, but burger flippers making $15 an hour 30 minutes outside NYC is going to bomb out the economy.
     
    2 ashokan, Jun 14, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
  3. brianoc

    brianoc Heisman Winner
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    I dont like minimum wage laws and think individual would be better off organizing and being involved in groups of employees that work together in their interest
     
  4. RUfinal4

    RUfinal4 Heisman Winner
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    like a Union?

    either way supply and demand has not solved this issue. If it did then the minimum wage would have been raised in the last 12 years.

    In 2007 a minimum wage person could afford an apt much easier than in 2019 since rents have risen, energy prices have risen, cable tv costs are up, telephone costs are up, and food costs are up.

    The min wage person may work at burger king for the past 12 years where the wage has been stagnant but the cost of a Whopper has risen.
     
  5. vkj91

    vkj91 Hall of Famer
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    I'm all for raising it with inflation but not to 15 an hour. Also, not in service industries like waiters and bar tenders. I also think it's important to emphasize that minimum wage jobs are not intended to raise a family.
     
  6. brianoc

    brianoc Heisman Winner
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    Whatever they want to call it. The key is whatever it is be involved.
     
  7. rurx1228

    rurx1228 Sophomore
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    I never understood the bartender/waiter thing, why shouldn't the business owner pay them? I would rather that happen and the customary tip percentage lowered accordingly.

    If someone disagrees I would welcome an explanation on the current system
     
  8. RUfinal4

    RUfinal4 Heisman Winner
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    ha, I am guessing you mean min wage jobs are for the young or those in career transition where they can move up the ladder to higher paying roles.

    the problem though is that you have a segment of society that will never really rise above the minimum wage. maybe they are just dumb asses that barely made it through HS or could be immigrants with a language barrier.

    You can't tell someone that they are prohibited from getting married or having kids just because they are a min wage worker. We have seen sci fi movies like this where they give people drugs so they can't have kids until the govt allows it.

    The low min wage leads to a spiral of other issues with the family dynamic.
    - dumb ass min wage worker knocks up his min wage girlfriend
    - they live in Alabama so an abortion is not even an option
    - she has to quit her job 6 months into the pregnancy because she can't perform duties on her feet 7 hours a day.
    - he has 2 min wage jobs to be able to work 50 hours a week at $8 an hour (just above min wage) - $1600 a month before taxes
    - she is on medicaid now
    - she goes on SNAP and welfare
    - has the baby and can't go back to work because day care costs more than she can make in her min wage job. He is working 2 min wage jobs because neither job wants to give him enough hours to qualify for medical. He is either on medicaid or the ACA paying over a large portion of his earnings.

    So the low min wage has caused -
    - medicaid
    - SNAP
    - Welfare
    - a child in this world without proper family financial support
     
  9. rurx1228

    rurx1228 Sophomore
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    So are you suggesting that raising the minimum wage will lower the rate of out of wedlock children being born, or it will better enable the irresponsible to deal with it?
     
  10. vkj91

    vkj91 Hall of Famer
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    sorry can't agree. it's BS. Lots of jobs that pay way above minimum wage that even the most uneducated or simply dumb people can perform. Language barrier? maybe learn the language? shocking concept right?
     
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  11. rutgersdave

    rutgersdave Heisman Winner
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    The $15 rate is in 5 years. Would like to set at maybe $10 hr and review it every year.

    $15 hr is probably way too much in the Southern states.
     
  12. vkj91

    vkj91 Hall of Famer
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    Because there profit margins as a whole are ridiculously thin.
     
  13. rurx1228

    rurx1228 Sophomore
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    Perhaps, but there are other businesses (retail pharmacy, pharmacy wholesalers) that work on razor thin margins and don't pay their employees $2.10/hr
     
  14. vkj91

    vkj91 Hall of Famer
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    when you pick up your viagra do you tip the kid?
     
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  15. rurx1228

    rurx1228 Sophomore
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    why would I, the kid makes $15/hr
     
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  16. RUPsyched

    RUPsyched Sophomore
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    From where did 15 come? Always sounded arbitrary to me.

    In a perfect world Uneducated Joe/Jane would get a minimum wage job to start and get raises, get an education and rise to better things. We don't live in a perfect world, do we? It's just not that simple and probably never was. Many people from all walks of life work minimum wage jobs for many different reasons.

    I believe that a lot of these people are cut off from the tools used to improve their lives like a college or trade school education. If the choice were food or school, what would you choose? Conservatives like to believe that all these people are lazy and that opportunities are there if they would just get off there butts and find them. An overwhelming majority are off their butts and working several jobs. Where are they going to find the time and money to chase those opportunities?

    Bottom line for me is that I don't want this country to become like India,which is the direction we are heading now. In India, the majority are dirt poor with no education and no opportunities trying to get by on meager earnings selling or stealing whatever they can get their hands on.
     
  17. rutgersdave

    rutgersdave Heisman Winner
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    All this will do will increase inflation and then retirees that barely had enough saved up will be in deep trouble. You see it with McDonalds when the meals were $3-4 dollars and now the meals are $8-9 dollars but some specials bring it down to $6-7. In the future, McDonalds meals will be $12-14 dollars and everything will increase relatively.

    People currently are able to live on social security, maybe $1,500 mth, by watching every penny in the Southern states. Next 10-15 years, might need at least $2,500 mth.
     
  18. wheezer

    wheezer Hall of Famer
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    Pharmacies can afford current minimums and more. They can have a problem with $15
    For all
     
  19. wheezer

    wheezer Hall of Famer
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    Just a random thought here, but maybe the minimum wage could be variable. Small mom and pop operations could have a lower
    Minimum. And your Amazon’s and
    The like with the higher number. This assuming the larger operations are paying their ceo’s And upper management outrageously high salaries

    I guess there would be an number of employee cutoff for exemption
     
  20. Scarlet_Monster

    Scarlet_Monster All Conference
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    But a minimum wage job should be enough for a single person to be able to suffice off of. It's not in the bulk of America.
     
  21. brianoc

    brianoc Heisman Winner
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    I thought under a certain level of employee number the business was exempt
     
  22. wheezer

    wheezer Hall of Famer
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    You may be right and that would make sense
     
  23. wheezer

    wheezer Hall of Famer
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    It used to be that working a Burger King was a nice part time job for a college student or a supplementary income for someone

    It might be unfair to the business to assume now that the pay scale should enable someone to live off of that.

    When I was in business only one employee was full time and paid enough to live on

    The rest were part timers with salaries a buck or two over minimum

    Some may disagree with this
     
  24. Scarlet_Monster

    Scarlet_Monster All Conference
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    Yes, and back in the 50s and 60s people could walk out of HS, enter a factory job, make enough to buy a house, and then raise a family.

    That doesn't exist anymore.

    When entry-level jobs in white-collar America are looking for 5+ years experience, you can see where issues will arise.
     
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  25. RutgHoops

    RutgHoops All Conference
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    As wage rates rise in lower skilled fields, companies are more incented to look to technological improvements to replace low skilled workers with (now) higher wages. Simple economics.

    "Does a merchant increase his sales by raising prices? Does higher pay of domestic servants induce more housewives to hire help? The situation is no different for other employers. The higher wage rate decreed by Congress for low-paid workers will raise the cost of the goods that these workers produce—and must discourage sales. It will also induce employers to replace such workers with other workers—either to do the same work or to produce machinery to do the same work or to produce machinery to do the work."

    -Milton Friedman (1966 Op-Ed)

    http://www.aei.org/publication/milt...onument-to-the-power-of-superficial-thinking/
     
    25 RutgHoops, Jun 14, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
  26. rurx1228

    rurx1228 Sophomore
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    My comment was not whether pharmacies can afford to pay their employees more but rather why restaurants are not able to pay their wait staff more than $2 an hour
     
  27. NorthernKnight

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    Raising the minimum wage is a dumb idea and has unintended consequences with union contracts tied to the national minimum wage.
     
  28. vkj91

    vkj91 Hall of Famer
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    I’m sorry but unless someone is handicapped, can barely speak English, or has a 3rd grade grade education,no adult should be living off of minimum wage job
     
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  29. vkj91

    vkj91 Hall of Famer
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    What McDonald’s are you going to? All these places still have 99 cent menus and and you can get Big Mac or chicken sandwich for like 5 bucks
     
  30. vkj91

    vkj91 Hall of Famer
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    How many states or counties in this country don’t offer Tech school as a HS option? How many places don’t have construction jobs available? Hair salons? Can we stop making believe all these people chose to drop out of Hs or get a basic education because they were taking care of siblings or ill parents. You need a college degree to become a truck driver?
     
  31. wheezer

    wheezer Hall of Famer
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    I always thought it was strictly because the tips would result in a good overall reimbursement. In a high end restaurant the $2 is probably not necessary but required by law
     
  32. ashokan

    ashokan All American
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    I don't even get too deep into the economics of it all because I'm not for a lot of stuff theoretically.

    Its just that politically its a hard message to keep sending to people being squeezed out by the gougers that $15 an hour is a crisis when elites in colleges, corporations and gov are ripping everybody off.

    How many colleges preach about "income inequality" while scamming eager students with debilitating costs that are allowed because colleges play the financial aid system to THEIR benefit at the students expense?
     
  33. rutgersdave

    rutgersdave Heisman Winner
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    The meals are more expensive with a drink and fries. I don’t order them but when they were 4-5 dollars it was reasonable but since I’m always on a diet, try not to have fries. I only get a coffee in the morning and an occasional chicken nuggets in the afternoon.

    My father taught me to buy off the dollar menus but not everyone is as thrifty as us.
     
    33 rutgersdave, Jun 14, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
  34. RUPsyched

    RUPsyched Sophomore
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    I am sure you are enjoying life in the confines of the small world you live in where everyone is wealthy and things are just honky dory.

    However, how does one get to the vocational school or construction job or to the truck or.......if transportation just isn't there. And if that doesn't get you, how about this? The time spent going to class or studying is spent on things like another job so one can eat and pay rent and maybe, just maybe, both at the same time. Yea, being poor sucks!

    Can we stop making believe all these people choose to drop out of HS or get a basic education or a great trade job because they are lazy?
     
    34 RUPsyched, Jun 14, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
  35. RUfinal4

    RUfinal4 Heisman Winner
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    also, with the franchise / big corp model many entrepreneurs are forced out of business.

    Home Depot used to hire a lot of former hardware store owners who were not able to compete.

    When Ford and GM close plants the workers making $25 an hour are sometimes forced to go to pep Boys for $15 an hour.

    Those who went to culinary school and worked as a chef at a restaurant that went under may becomes a line cook at a Fridays.
     
  36. vkj91

    vkj91 Hall of Famer
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    Please, I’m surrounded by wealthy people with no HS education. We aren’t talking about wealthy. We are talking about the basic skills it requires to get a job above minimum wage. It ain’t hard. What cities don’t have transportation? What school districts don’t Offer bussing? Your arguments are all hollow. I’ve lived in NJ, Pa, Albany, Seattle, and Iowa. No issues getting around without a car. That was all before Uber
     
  37. rutgersdave

    rutgersdave Heisman Winner
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    My famous friend, who’s mother went to the nursing home and passed away recently, was a blue collar worker and was a copier repair man for Sharp, then a cashier machine repair man for several years until they didn’t need these repair men. Worked at Chucky Cheese for a few years repairing their machines. Tries to take a few Microsoft tech classes to upgrade his skills but got nowhere. His bright future ended working at Walmart for the last 8 years, now at 66 years old. Luckily, he found low income housing for the elderly but I can see if he can’t work anymore in about 8 years, he might end up homeless surviving on social security which barely pay the rent with a little left over.

    His mistake was thinking he was getting some money from his parent house and maybe some stocks from his father that either disappeared or never existed. The father lefted with a lot of debt before he passed. I guess it was his own fault for dropping out of college after only two years. Good communication skills but I guess lazy. Yeah, I know someone that became a truck driver also.
     
    37 rutgersdave, Jun 14, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
  38. RUPsyched

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    Like the poor could afford uber. Ha ha. Is transportation to vo-techs available everywhere? You argument may be correct about today's teenagers. It has no value to those that are older. Look at my other argument about time.

    However, those that are older do have a responsibility to make sure their kids take advantage of the public schools and vo-techs and the bussing to get there.
     
  39. vkj91

    vkj91 Hall of Famer
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    Lazy? Maybe maybe not. Definitely a poor planner and obviously made some poor decisions. He went to college for two years in the the 70’s Which wasn’t exactly common, so he obviously started with a leg up. He sounds like another one of your made up people where every possible worst case scenario occurred.
     
  40. rutgersdave

    rutgersdave Heisman Winner
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    Make up for what? You’re that important that I have to make up stories. Lol

    There are no poor people in the world, right. Sounds like your father would be considered poor when you were growing up. Just because you are a success story doesn’t mean everyone can be successful.

    My family is very successful so you don’t have to worry about us.
     

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