NC State Extends Dave Doeren (Ash's Long Lost Brother) 5 Years

[Knight Shift]

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/26366849/nc-state-signs-coach-doeren-5-year-contract

Doeren and Chris Ash's careers are intertwined.
Both played at Drake, Ash 2 years behind Doeren.
Ash was a GA at Drake in 1997 when Doeren was DC.
Ash took over as DC at Drake in 1998-99 after Doeren left Drake.
Doeren was co-DC and DC at Wisconsin 2006-10, and Ash coached DBs at Wisconsin in 2010, and took over as DC after Doeren left to become Head Coach of NIU.


That's were the intertwining ends.
Ash is 7-29 as a Head Coach, and Doeren went 23-4 at NIU and 43-34 at NC State.

This raises questions. Why has Doeren succeeded as a head coach, and Ash has not?

As coordinators:
Wisconsin's last 2 years under Doeren:
2009- 22.4 points per game
2010- 22 points per game
Ash:
2011- 19.7 points per game
2012- 19.0 points per game.
Advantage- Ash.
https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/opponent-points-per-game?date=2013-01-07

One interesting point about Doeren's extension is that Tom O'Brien was fired at the end of the 2012 season after 5 years and posting a 40-35 record (22-26 conference) after going 9-4/5-3, 8-5/4-4 and 7-5/4-5 in his last 3 years.

Doeren's record after 5 years is marginally better at 43-34 (but worse in conference at 20-28), but he was 7-6/3-5, 9-4/6-2, and 9-4/5-3 in his last 3 years.

Doeren's overall body of work is about the same as O'Brien, but Doeren is trending up.

From Wikipedia on O'Brien's 2012 firing: "Athletic director Debbie Yow cited several reasons. She was concerned over lagging season-ticket sales, as well as his approach to recruiting. O'Brien's recruiting classes were frequently in the bottom half of the nation, and Yow wanted a coach who could bring top 25-type talent to Raleigh. NCSU was obligated to pay $1.2 million of non-state funds to O'Brien, as his contract ran through the 2015 season.[5] However, NCSU ended up only having to pay O'Brien $200,000 after the buyout was renegotiated so he could become an assistant at Virginia."

O'Brien's Recruiting Rankings (Rivals)
2009- 52
2010- 34
2011- 86
2012- 54
Doeren's Rankings:
2013- 57
2014- 30
2015- 35
2016- 43
2017- 53
2018- 34

Don't really see a huge difference in recruiting, except for the 86 ranking in 2011 for O'Brien.
In O'Brien's last year, NC State averaged 54,309 in attendance. Not too shabby.
In 2017, NC State averaged 56,850 in attendance.

Is Tom O'Brien available?

 

[BlockR]

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/26366849/nc-state-signs-coach-doeren-5-year-contract

Doeren and Chris Ash's careers are intertwined.
Both played at Drake, Ash 2 years behind Doeren.
Ash was a GA at Drake in 1997 when Doeren was DC.
Ash took over as DC at Drake in 1998-99 after Doeren left Drake.
Doeren was co-DC and DC at Wisconsin 2006-10, and Ash coached DBs at Wisconsin in 2010, and took over as DC after Doeren left to become Head Coach of NIU.


That's were the intertwining ends.
Ash is 7-29 as a Head Coach, and Doeren went 23-4 at NIU and 43-34 at NC State.

This raises questions. Why has Doeren succeeded as a head coach, and Ash has not?

As coordinators:
Wisconsin's last 2 years under Doeren:
2009- 22.4 points per game
2010- 22 points per game
Ash:
2011- 19.7 points per game
2012- 19.0 points per game.
Advantage- Ash.
https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/opponent-points-per-game?date=2013-01-07

One interesting point about Doeren's extension is that Tom O'Brien was fired at the end of the 2012 season after 5 years and posting a 40-35 record (22-26 conference) after going 9-4/5-3, 8-5/4-4 and 7-5/4-5 in his last 3 years.

Doeren's record after 5 years is marginally better at 43-34 (but worse in conference at 20-28), but he was 7-6/3-5, 9-4/6-2, and 9-4/5-3 in his last 3 years.

Doeren's overall body of work is about the same as O'Brien, but Doeren is trending up.

From Wikipedia on O'Brien's 2012 firing: "Athletic director Debbie Yow cited several reasons. She was concerned over lagging season-ticket sales, as well as his approach to recruiting. O'Brien's recruiting classes were frequently in the bottom half of the nation, and Yow wanted a coach who could bring top 25-type talent to Raleigh. NCSU was obligated to pay $1.2 million of non-state funds to O'Brien, as his contract ran through the 2015 season.[5] However, NCSU ended up only having to pay O'Brien $200,000 after the buyout was renegotiated so he could become an assistant at Virginia."

O'Brien's Recruiting Rankings (Rivals)
2009- 52
2010- 34
2011- 86
2012- 54
Doeren's Rankings:
2013- 57
2014- 30
2015- 35
2016- 43
2017- 53
2018- 34

Don't really see a huge difference in recruiting, except for the 86 ranking in 2011 for O'Brien.
In O'Brien's last year, NC State averaged 54,309 in attendance. Not too shabby.
In 2017, NC State averaged 56,850 in attendance.

Is Tom O'Brien available?

Ash should stay in touch with him..good landing spot for Ash come December when hes looking for a new gig.

 

[RUskoolie]

Ash was put in a situation with very little room for error and his tenure here has basically been one step forward three steps back. I also doubt Doren has run only one trick play on special teams in 3 years, routinely punts on the opponents side of the 50 with 4 and less than 5 and pissed all over any tradition NC State had when he showed up.

 

[Plum Street]

Ash was put in a situation with very little room for error and his tenure here has basically been one step forward three steps back. I also doubt Doren has run only one trick play on special teams in 3 years, routinely punts on the opponents side of the 50 with 4 and less than 5 and pissed all over any tradition NC State had when he showed up.

Yes, ash did have very little room for error. And all he has made is errors. Not a good combo .

 

[Knight Shift]

Ash was put in a situation with very little room for error and his tenure here has basically been one step forward three steps back. I also doubt Doren has run only one trick play on special teams in 3 years, routinely punts on the opponents side of the 50 with 4 and less than 5 and pissed all over any tradition NC State had when he showed up.

Exactly right on Ash's situation and Ash's progress and approach to the game. Ash's predecessor was a disaster in most areas, but at least he had some balls when it came to play calling and trick plays.

Maybe Ash will wind up on Saban's staff with his predecessor in 2020 . . . .

 

[RUSK97]

Ash and Doeren had a brother from another mother from Drake who ascended to HC at FIU IIRC. He was the first to be canned. Now it’s a race for who’s next: Ash or Doeren. Easy call is Ash, but I don’t think Hobbs will ever do it. Ash will achieve just enough to escape the hangman’s noose.

 

[Abro1975]

Doeren's HC experience in the MAC did him a world of good learning the job, same as Babers at Syracuse, same as Nick Saban in the MAC, and many others who learned the job at the MAC and other G5 places.

I still think Lance Leipold will be a big time HC at the P5 level when he moves on after Buffalo.

 

[Knight Shift]

Doeren's HC experience in the MAC did him a world of good learning the job, same as Babers at Syracuse, same as Nick Saban in the MAC, and many others who learned the job at the MAC and other G5 places.

I still think Lance Leipold will be a big time HC at the P5 level when he moves on after Buffalo.

Agreed. And just for the record, Doeren does not come across as Mr. Excitement either.

 

[Knight Shift]

Ash and Doeren had a brother from another mother from Drake who ascended to HC at FIU IIRC. He was the first to be canned. Now it’s a race for who’s next: Ash or Doeren. Easy call is Ash, but I don’t think Hobbs will ever do it. Ash will achieve just enough to escape the hangman’s noose.

Ever?

 

[BlockR]

Ash and Doeren had a brother from another mother from Drake who ascended to HC at FIU IIRC. He was the first to be canned. Now it’s a race for who’s next: Ash or Doeren. Easy call is Ash, but I don’t think Hobbs will ever do it. Ash will achieve just enough to escape the hangman’s noose.

after going zero for entire B10 schedule whats 'just enough"?
the amount of empty seats this season at Rutgers game combined with Ash overall record will force Hobbs to can Ash,unless Hobbs wants to test the waters on his own tenure here.
The fan base should STOP conditioning themselves to accepting three or 4 wins wins and no B10 wins(but golly gee some were Close games!) as "progress."

 

[RUskoolie]

Doeren's HC experience in the MAC did him a world of good learning the job, same as Babers at Syracuse, same as Nick Saban in the MAC, and many others who learned the job at the MAC and other G5 places.

I still think Lance Leipold will be a big time HC at the P5 level when he moves on after Buffalo.

I am curious to watch him without his star QB and AA WR, but I think he would be a terrible, terrible fit in NJ. I watched multiple videos of him on Youtube and you practically fall asleep listening to him. That will not get it done in NJ with the state of the program when Ash is gone. We need a recruiter 100% before anything else.

 

[Knight Shift]

I am curious to watch him without his star QB and AA WR, but I think he would be a terrible, terrible fit in NJ. I watched multiple videos of him on Youtube and you practically fall asleep listening to him. That will not get it done in NJ with the state of the program when Ash is gone. We need a recruiter 100% before anything else.

I'm curious to see how NC State does this year with their star QB graduating, and I believe their two 1,000 yard WRs Harmon and Meyers are going to the NFL.

Remember when Ash made a hard push for Harmon?
https://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/2016/01/njs_top_wr_kelvin_harmon_recieves_in-home_visit_fr.html

 

[Yeah Baby]

Doeren's HC experience in the MAC did him a world of good learning the job, same as Babers at Syracuse, same as Nick Saban in the MAC, and many others who learned the job at the MAC and other G5 places.

I still think Lance Leipold will be a big time HC at the P5 level when he moves on after Buffalo.

Totally agree plus NC State plays in the ACC. All good teams but not the grind of the BIG East. Even the Big West is tougher than the ACC with the crossover games. It’s Clemson and everyone else. Plus I’m sure he’s a good coach. His NIU record speaks volumes.

Why did Schiano lose early, then do well and then start losing again at Tampa? I think he learned on the job here and also had no depth against a very tough schedule his first few years. In the NFL I think he had to learn again but they didn’t give him 5 years to start winning. I don’t think he was a bad coach then a good coach and then a bad coach again. I think the circumstances had a lot to do with his records. He’s a good Football coach and great DC imo.

 

[Jimpeg]

Doeren's HC experience in the MAC did him a world of good learning the job, same as Babers at Syracuse, same as Nick Saban in the MAC, and many others who learned the job at the MAC and other G5 places.

I still think Lance Leipold will be a big time HC at the P5 level when he moves on after Buffalo.

..amen on the training wheels that CA needed before RU.....any idea what Leopold buyout would be after signing a new 5 year deal?

 

[BlockR]

..amen on the training wheels that CA needed before RU.....any idea what Leopold buyout would be after signing a new 5 year deal?

need the next HC to have had some power 5 or at least AAC head coaching experience..NOT from Buffalo..
program is a mess and going on the cheap has gotten us Flood and Ash..
how has that worked out?

 

[beaced]

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/26366849/nc-state-signs-coach-doeren-5-year-contract

Doeren and Chris Ash's careers are intertwined.
Both played at Drake, Ash 2 years behind Doeren.
Ash was a GA at Drake in 1997 when Doeren was DC.
Ash took over as DC at Drake in 1998-99 after Doeren left Drake.
Doeren was co-DC and DC at Wisconsin 2006-10, and Ash coached DBs at Wisconsin in 2010, and took over as DC after Doeren left to become Head Coach of NIU.


That's were the intertwining ends.
Ash is 7-29 as a Head Coach, and Doeren went 23-4 at NIU and 43-34 at NC State.

This raises questions. Why has Doeren succeeded as a head coach, and Ash has not?

As coordinators:
Wisconsin's last 2 years under Doeren:
2009- 22.4 points per game
2010- 22 points per game
Ash:
2011- 19.7 points per game
2012- 19.0 points per game.
Advantage- Ash.
https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/opponent-points-per-game?date=2013-01-07

One interesting point about Doeren's extension is that Tom O'Brien was fired at the end of the 2012 season after 5 years and posting a 40-35 record (22-26 conference) after going 9-4/5-3, 8-5/4-4 and 7-5/4-5 in his last 3 years.

Doeren's record after 5 years is marginally better at 43-34 (but worse in conference at 20-28), but he was 7-6/3-5, 9-4/6-2, and 9-4/5-3 in his last 3 years.

Doeren's overall body of work is about the same as O'Brien, but Doeren is trending up.

From Wikipedia on O'Brien's 2012 firing: "Athletic director Debbie Yow cited several reasons. She was concerned over lagging season-ticket sales, as well as his approach to recruiting. O'Brien's recruiting classes were frequently in the bottom half of the nation, and Yow wanted a coach who could bring top 25-type talent to Raleigh. NCSU was obligated to pay $1.2 million of non-state funds to O'Brien, as his contract ran through the 2015 season.[5] However, NCSU ended up only having to pay O'Brien $200,000 after the buyout was renegotiated so he could become an assistant at Virginia."

O'Brien's Recruiting Rankings (Rivals)
2009- 52
2010- 34
2011- 86
2012- 54
Doeren's Rankings:
2013- 57
2014- 30
2015- 35
2016- 43
2017- 53
2018- 34

Don't really see a huge difference in recruiting, except for the 86 ranking in 2011 for O'Brien.
In O'Brien's last year, NC State averaged 54,309 in attendance. Not too shabby.
In 2017, NC State averaged 56,850 in attendance.

Is Tom O'Brien available?

I watch a lot of NCSU FB. My Grand daughter was on their Dance Team.Not impressed with their team. Killer instinct not there and IMO the OC could be better.They have RU's colors though and wins are wins. Someday we will have W's too.

 

[beaced]

I'm curious to see how NC State does this year with their star QB graduating, and I believe their two 1,000 yard WRs Harmon and Meyers are going to the NFL.

Remember when Ash made a hard push for Harmon?
https://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/2016/01/njs_top_wr_kelvin_harmon_recieves_in-home_visit_fr.html

I was going to mention Finlay's departure but forgot to do it. Thanks for the bailout.Doeren didn't get it done with the best QB since Wilson.Should be interesting to see this year's O.