NC State hit with Notice of Allegations
- Thread starter RU-Choppin-Ohio
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North Carolina schools cheat, period. I will see if this turns into anything more than a slap on the wrist like the last stop there by the ncaa.
They will go to the Waffle House with the NCAA investigators, have a double portion breakfast, be asked if they did anything wrong, answer no and then have a press conference stating that the NCAA’s allocations have not been found true
Wonder if the penalties will be as crippling as the ones given to the University of No Classes?
State will get treated almost as bad as Rutgers would. They are not Dook or UNC.
I would revise the original statement to say *power conference schools* in North Carolina
Very few power conference schools in America stay within the rules unfortunately. In NC State's case the rule breakers are no longer at the school. I'm really interested in what happens in their case.
Not even worth paying attention to. Nothing ever gets done. No reason to get hopes up
Not bothering to read it. NCAA isn’t really that serious in stopping illegal activity. Wake me up when they are.
Exactly. However, they might impose a penalty on NC State since no one outside of Raleigh cares. It takes pressure off them having to do anything regarding any potential scandals at UNC, Duke, ND, etc.
Not bothering to read what? I guess you don't have an opinion on what sanctions the NCAA should put on NC State then. Okay, fair enough. I just thought you had some kind of suggestion.
Rampant cheating and lawlessness will continue until the institutions are held responsible for the actions of the athletics staff and boosters. That's what "institutional control" is supposed to mean. So if there are no consequences once the rule breakers leave, then we will never end the cycle of hiring a known cheater, letting them cheat, win a bunch of games and sell a lot of tickets, and then let them go once the cheating surfaces. Rinse, repeat.
So what is the solution? What does "until the institutions are held responsible" look like in your mind?
As soon as I found out that non student-athletes were allowed to take those classes I knew they'd skate.
How about holding the schools responsible for hiring crooks and turning a blind eye?
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That is a very generic idea though. What specifically would you like the NCAA to do to hold NC State responsible for what former coaches did?
Oh and the AD that hired Mark Gottfried retired before the crap hit the fan.
Ideas.....
If a coach knows about a player in his program doing something illegal and does nothing about it that coach is out 2 years 1st offense and lifetime 2nd offense.
Put the onus on the program to police. Mandatory that in major conferences 2% of revenue has to be spent surveillance for illegal activities. Schools need to go above and beyond. Illegal activity needs real stiff penalties. Need to use death penalty.
If a coach knows about a player in his program doing something illegal and does nothing about it that coach is out 2 years 1st offense and lifetime 2nd offense.
Put the onus on the program to police. Mandatory that in major conferences 2% of revenue has to be spent surveillance for illegal activities. Schools need to go above and beyond. Illegal activity needs real stiff penalties. Need to use death penalty.
If the Coach is out for two years on his first offense will his players be allowed to transfer to other schools with immediate eligibility?
What if the first offense involves multiple violations? Does that coach get the same penalty as a coach that only violated one rule?
For example if for a first time violator the NCAA Notice Of Allegations includes: failure to properly oversee the drug-testing program, improprieties by a student ambassador program involved with recruiting, and attempts to have a player's grade altered?
Just a 2 year suspension for the head coach?
2 year postseason ban at minimum for the university. Allow the players to transfer and play immediately if they weren’t involved in any rule breaking. Universities will continually cheat or look the other way if there are no consequences.
I'd shut the program down for one season anytime there was a Level I violation unless the coach resigns or is fired.
If the coach is no longer at the school I would assess a postseason ban for each level one violation and a scholarship reduction for each level 2 violation.
Maybe the NCAA needs an independent body enforcing rules. Things can be cleaned up, but there is little effort.
Low lying fruit.....get sneaker companies out of the game.
Low lying fruit.....get sneaker companies out of the game.
If you see a player driving around in a new car it doesnt take a genius to think there is a chance he has the car illegally.
I think the NCAA does with the school president's want. Sort of like the commissioner does what the owners of teams in professional sports leagues want.
Call me an altruist but I believe the primary purpose of NCAA athletics is to educate young men and women and give those who participate in NCAA athletics an opportunity that in many cases would not be afforded.
I don't think the NCAA will or can do anything to clean up the mess. What specifically would I like to see done:
- Have the DOE get involved in college athletics and alert University leadership that their accreditation as a post secondary educational institution is in jeopardy if they don't effectively police their athletics programs. How different is the prevention and response at schools like Baylor or UNC or.... if those schools can't confer an accredited degree because their athletics programs are rogue? Day 1 of that plan is the day the crap in college athletics stops forever.
- In conjunction with the DOE appoint three commissioners/comminsioning bodies for college athletics: College Football, College Basketball, non-revenue sports. Each with subpoena and investigatory powers conferred by the Federal Government. These groups would function outside the purview of the NCAA.
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What you do is you reduce scholarships (by way of eligible players for the following season) every time you are in direct violation of written rules no matter who is at fault and who is or isn’t still with the program.
Until you stop allowing school leadership to pass the buck attempting be absolved of fault by placing blame on the individual the problem will never solved for. The answer “you’re hurting the kids” or “you’re limiting kids opportunities” is total horse sh*t.
If a player takes money, plays, and is later found out and ruled ineligible, you punish the school. Same for any other situation where someone is claiming “we didn’t know”. You change that rule you force schools to do more homework. You take the 13th scholarship and you designate it as academic only, the player you sign has that requirement stated in the LOI and is notified as such throughout their recruitment, and he has extreme limited participation in all team activities not related to academic support.
@Russ Wood The way you pass the buck further and further down the line and ask for other people to provide solutions of which you never give but find ways to tear apart those suggestions is a prevalent attitude among those unwilling to fix the problem.
Until you stop allowing school leadership to pass the buck attempting be absolved of fault by placing blame on the individual the problem will never solved for. The answer “you’re hurting the kids” or “you’re limiting kids opportunities” is total horse sh*t.
If a player takes money, plays, and is later found out and ruled ineligible, you punish the school. Same for any other situation where someone is claiming “we didn’t know”. You change that rule you force schools to do more homework. You take the 13th scholarship and you designate it as academic only, the player you sign has that requirement stated in the LOI and is notified as such throughout their recruitment, and he has extreme limited participation in all team activities not related to academic support.
@Russ Wood The way you pass the buck further and further down the line and ask for other people to provide solutions of which you never give but find ways to tear apart those suggestions is a prevalent attitude among those unwilling to fix the problem.
Pass the buck? How did I do that simply by asking others what they would do? I posted what I would like to see happen to the cheaters. Clearly you missed that, but to read it click HERE.
Also, where did I "tear apart those suggestions" of others? Some people posted things like "hold the schools accountable." Well, yeah I'd like the schools to be held accountable but I was curious what that looked like to people.
I think @needmorecowbell was the first person to give some details to his thoughts and @RutgHoops had a pretty detailed solution that involved the DOE. You had some interesting ideas but then you decided to attack me at the end for some reason.
All I wanted was to read what people here think should happen to NC State and you somehow turned that into me passing the buck. Wow.
If you weren’t intending to stir the pot than my mistake but Eagletons reply imo was clearly stating allowing penalties already stipulated in ncaa by laws based on the severity of the violation still be imposed regardless of whether or not infractions were cause by players or ad staff no longer enrolled or employed by the institution.
I read your subsequent responses of going down a rabbit hole of one-off hypotheticals aimed at the conclusion that there is no good answer to solve the issue.
I singled out NC State because, to my knowledge, they are the first school to receive a NOA from the NCAA so we know what Level I and Level II violations they are facing. I was actually trying to avoid hypotheticals by focusing on the one school that made the NCAA sanctions public.
you want to get Betsy DeVos involved?
All the years of credibility you have built up over the years is lost in a paragraph..
:weary:
All the years of credibility you have built up over the years is lost in a paragraph..
:weary:
Maybe involve a fine of a certain percentage of the revenue that the sport pulls in for each level 1 violation. I'm just throwing a number out there: 20% of the revenue from the peak years for three years. I would also put a clause in place that if the team goes on a self-imposed postseason ban, the fine would be waived for that year.
Another way to punish the school without necessarily impacting the players that didn't cheat themselves (a common refrain from those who don't wish to punish old "crimes") would be to put a non-conference home game ban for a year for each level 1 infraction (and maybe put a minimum distance requirement for the road games, like 50 miles). This way you make it more challenging for the guilty school and deprive them of revenue of 6 or 7 games.
Another way to punish the school without necessarily impacting the players that didn't cheat themselves (a common refrain from those who don't wish to punish old "crimes") would be to put a non-conference home game ban for a year for each level 1 infraction (and maybe put a minimum distance requirement for the road games, like 50 miles). This way you make it more challenging for the guilty school and deprive them of revenue of 6 or 7 games.
Although I'm a big NC State fan, I agree with this in general. The institution must be punished regardless of personnel turnover. Let players transfer if they weren't involved...
I think level one violations do involve fines. One of my favorite parts of this particular saga is that NCSU cheated to get Dennis Smith, who started every game of the 2016-17 season. Yet NCSU finished 15-17 and lost 10 of its last 11 games. But hey, they'll always have the memories of that win at Duke when Smith had 32 points, six assists, four rebounds and two steals in 33 minutes of playing time.
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