This would be amazing for New Bruns and Rutgers.
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/20...ication_to_lure.html#incart_river_mobile_home
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/20...ication_to_lure.html#incart_river_mobile_home
New Brunswick in race for HQ2- Amazon's East Coast Home
- Thread starter Zak57
- Start date
I think this would be great for NB and the region. But supposedly Amazon's HQ2 will employ 50,000 people. That is a huge number of people to put into downtown New Brunswick. I'm not sure that the transportation system can support that many additional people. (I also am dubious about the 50,000 claim. That is a huge number of people to put in one location. I could see putting 10-20K people in a HQ2 location, and another 20-30K in nearby satellite offices.)
Yeah it'll be tough. Newark and Jersey City at least have the light rail, the train, the PATH, and buses. New Brunswick basically has the Northeast corridor and not as many bus routes. Would be great for NB and rutgers though.
I think it would be between Newark and Jersey City but Newark has the lead because if I wanted to drive to Newark or Jersey City from a suburban town, it's easier to get to Newark than Jersey City.
Newark and jersey City both house Amazon currently.
Audible is in Newark and Amazon Fresh is in JC.
JC is probably a smarter choice since it is easily accessible for employees from NJ (via NJ Transit, light rail, and PATH with driving available), NYC (via subway to PATH), LI (via LIRR to PATH), Staten Island (via light rail from Bayonne), Rockland (via NJ Transit to Hoboken), and Westchester / CT (via Metro North to subway to PATH - probably not optimal but doable).
With Newark you will probably lose the Westchester / CT folks, LI folks, and some outer borogh NYC folks).
With New Brunswick you can add south jersey and philly folks but lose Westchester / CT, LI, most Rockland, and probably some NYC.
For a NJ perspective the state probably prefers Newark or New Brunswick since it will force Amazon to hire more NJ residents. The state will make the income tax revenue regardless but if NJ residents are hired you will have more in state spending (sales tax) and more demand for housing (housing market and real estate tax revenues).
Audible is in Newark and Amazon Fresh is in JC.
JC is probably a smarter choice since it is easily accessible for employees from NJ (via NJ Transit, light rail, and PATH with driving available), NYC (via subway to PATH), LI (via LIRR to PATH), Staten Island (via light rail from Bayonne), Rockland (via NJ Transit to Hoboken), and Westchester / CT (via Metro North to subway to PATH - probably not optimal but doable).
With Newark you will probably lose the Westchester / CT folks, LI folks, and some outer borogh NYC folks).
With New Brunswick you can add south jersey and philly folks but lose Westchester / CT, LI, most Rockland, and probably some NYC.
For a NJ perspective the state probably prefers Newark or New Brunswick since it will force Amazon to hire more NJ residents. The state will make the income tax revenue regardless but if NJ residents are hired you will have more in state spending (sales tax) and more demand for housing (housing market and real estate tax revenues).
Jersey City is accessible via NJ Transit? There is no NJ Transit train service to Jersey City. At best, you have to go to Hoboken and then use different transport to get to JC. And 4 of the 7 train lines that go to Hoboken stop in Newark first. For the other 3, you can transfer at Secaucus to get to Newark, which is probably easier than taking the train to Hoboken and then transferring to PATH or Light Rail to get to JC. Plus Newark also has PATH service, and Newark has additional NJ Transit and Amtrak service. There is pretty much nowhere in NJ/NY (other than Hudson County and a small portion of southwest Manhattan) where it is easier to get to Jersey City than Newark.
When I say NJ Transit it includes the light rail.
- North Jersey / Rockland can go to Hoboken and depending ont he location: walk, light rail or path
- Central and S jersey can take a train to Nwk and then PATH
Either way, for me NWK or JC works best if I was to work for Amazon. Camden would be an issue. If they chose Brooklyn it would be a hassle from NJ.
My point wasn't that JC was hatd to get to, but from a transportation perspective it is not easier to get to than Newark.
JC may have other advantages over Newark, but ease of transportation is not one of them.
For NJ folks yes
Ask those who live in Brooklyn, Queens, or LI if they prefer to go to the JC waterfront or Newark. I say prefer since the transit times of Newark vs JC may be within 5 mins of each other but there is a psychological thing of 1 city vs another. For those in Bergen County and Rockland the question would come down to driving to Newark vs a train to Hoboken and then a light rail / train to Secaucus and switch for Newark. I will assume that the Amazon Newark location will not be right next to the train station but a shuttle / light rail ride away similar distance as the Audible building to Newark Penn Station.
For the JC Waterfront my guess is a location near Exchange Place or Pavonia Newport.
Looking at the psychological thing I have a family member in LI that has worked in JC and downtown NYC. He would take the LIRR and then transfer to a subway for downtown or PATH for JC. Timing wise it is about the same but he prefers downtown because he has a psychological thing about staying on the NY side. I personally have a similar thing on the NJ side. It may be the same time to take mass transit to NYC as driving from cnj to JC, Parsippany, or Paramus during rush hour but I would prefer the NJ location.
I think you need to look at a transit map.
No one is taking a train to Hoboken, and then transferring to another train from Hoboken to Secaucus and then transferring to Newark. Every single train to Hoboken stops at either Newark or Secaucus first. They'd just get off the train in Newark or Secaucus before ever getting to Hoboken. I'm not denying that there may be psychological or other advantages for Jersey City over Newark. But transportation to Newark is vastly superior than transportation to Jersey City.
Either way there is a transfer
Central & North Jersey to JC- have to transfer in Hoboken or Newark
Brooklyn/Queens- have to transfer to PATH
JC is closer to Manhattan- Amazon could have its own ferry like Goldman. That's the lure. And JC reputation wise is better than Newark. DTJC is safer than Newark as well.
In theory Amazon could use many of the areas outside of downtown and on the water near Port Liberte, making it driveable for NJ and accessible to Manhattan by ferry.
Central & North Jersey to JC- have to transfer in Hoboken or Newark
Brooklyn/Queens- have to transfer to PATH
JC is closer to Manhattan- Amazon could have its own ferry like Goldman. That's the lure. And JC reputation wise is better than Newark. DTJC is safer than Newark as well.
In theory Amazon could use many of the areas outside of downtown and on the water near Port Liberte, making it driveable for NJ and accessible to Manhattan by ferry.
I was thinking of the ferry thing too. Every open parking lot in JC is being converted to buildings.
On the waterfront you have
- an open area that is fenced next to Goldman (may have infrastructure items for the Goldman building)
- a lot right behind Harborside by the light rail. NY Waterway just built a pier at Harborside that has service to the WFC and midtown. This may also lead to service from Brooklyn or Westchester if there is enough demand. There are boats from Belford that go to JC but they stop at Pier 11 and WFC 1st so it is a 60-70 min boat ride.
- construction by BJ's where Amazon can potentially buy the whole block and build a huge building where BJs, Shop Rite, and Bed Bath beyond can be housed on the ground level. I worked near there years ago and it was a 15 min walk from the Hoboken rail station for those who wanted to walk instead of the 5 min light rail ride that is free with a NJ transit train ticket.
- land closer to the Hoboken station
While I selfishly want Amazon to locate in New Jersey, specifically at the old Merck headquarters in Whitehouse Station, I don't think that is going to happen. I have heard from a number of sources that are 90% certain they will locate in Pennsylvania. One of three areas: Pittsburgh, Philadelphia or the Lehigh Valley. I hope I am wrong but I have heard this from both government and university folks.
Would government and university folks know at this point? The final proposals haven't even been submitted yet. I bet Amazon has an idea of where they'll pick, but I doubt anything has actually been decided.
You wouldn't think so but sometimes there is stuff going on behind the scenes. Didn't proposals have to be in by now?
No, they are due on the 19th. Which is why any "behind the scenes" talk is probably pretty one sided at this point.
We'll see. Sometimes these RFP's are for show...Amazon getting a lot of PR for being public about it.
Cities Dream Of Landing Amazon's New HQ And They're Going To Great Lengths To Show It
Officials in Tucson, Ariz., uprooted a 21-foot-tall saguaro cactus and tried to have it delivered to Amazon's Seattle headquarters. Birmingham constructed giant Amazon boxes and placed them around the Alabama city. In Missouri, Kansas City's mayor bought a thousand items online from Amazon and posted reviews of each one.
All of these cities are clearly trying hard to get Amazon's attention. Why? Because they know that otherwise, they don't stand a chance against some big-name cities that are all trying to win the contest to land Amazon's second headquarters.
Officials in Tucson, Ariz., uprooted a 21-foot-tall saguaro cactus and tried to have it delivered to Amazon's Seattle headquarters. Birmingham constructed giant Amazon boxes and placed them around the Alabama city. In Missouri, Kansas City's mayor bought a thousand items online from Amazon and posted reviews of each one.
All of these cities are clearly trying hard to get Amazon's attention. Why? Because they know that otherwise, they don't stand a chance against some big-name cities that are all trying to win the contest to land Amazon's second headquarters.
It wouldn't surprise me if they end up in PA.
The Philly area has a lot to offer.
- major airport
- easy transportation via the interstate highway system, various trains, other public transportation
- a lot of universities for partnering on research
- close to a lot of Amazon fulfillment centers in NJ, PA, and MD
- potentially less expensive to build a facility then NYC or Jersey City
- Lower taxes than NY and NJ (for the workers) since Amazon is working a sweet state tax deal everywhere
- potentially more housing for workers within 45 miles that is affordable
- almost as much talent as the NY area
- there could be politics behind it too since the PA is a mixed state between Dems and GOP where the current administration may try to work a deal to get them to PA over NJ, NY, MA, or MD (strong blue states).
- Amazon supposedly is looking to enter the mail order drug industry and Philly has a lot of pharma talent via USP and other colleges
I think Pitt would not be as good because there may not be 40-50k employees in the area. They may require new employees to relocate
Lastly, I was thinking about the desire for a 50k employee location. I wonder if they will be creating 50k new jobs or if a merger is in the works where it may be 20k new jobs and 30k from a merged company. (fyi Medco is in Franklin Lakes NJ if they are potentially an acquisition. Medco has 24k employees)
The Philly area has a lot to offer.
- major airport
- easy transportation via the interstate highway system, various trains, other public transportation
- a lot of universities for partnering on research
- close to a lot of Amazon fulfillment centers in NJ, PA, and MD
- potentially less expensive to build a facility then NYC or Jersey City
- Lower taxes than NY and NJ (for the workers) since Amazon is working a sweet state tax deal everywhere
- potentially more housing for workers within 45 miles that is affordable
- almost as much talent as the NY area
- there could be politics behind it too since the PA is a mixed state between Dems and GOP where the current administration may try to work a deal to get them to PA over NJ, NY, MA, or MD (strong blue states).
- Amazon supposedly is looking to enter the mail order drug industry and Philly has a lot of pharma talent via USP and other colleges
I think Pitt would not be as good because there may not be 40-50k employees in the area. They may require new employees to relocate
Lastly, I was thinking about the desire for a 50k employee location. I wonder if they will be creating 50k new jobs or if a merger is in the works where it may be 20k new jobs and 30k from a merged company. (fyi Medco is in Franklin Lakes NJ if they are potentially an acquisition. Medco has 24k employees)
DEVCO is proposing it next to the train station... http://www.mycentraljersey.com/stor...ition-heats-up-amazon-headquarters/681942001/
New Brunswick would need a light rail from a park and ride off 18. You would have 10,000 cars hitting the road between 5-6 pm every day if Amazon was there. You would have some on the train but many would drive.
I think traffic on 18 is bad already and would get worse.
I think traffic on 18 is bad already and would get worse.
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Good summary. I think Philly area would have the inside track as well. Hard to believe they have 3MM sq ft of fulfillment space in Lehigh Valley alone and ABE is their pilot site to take over the entire door-door supply chain.
Every city in America is pandering to get this. I moved to Pittsburgh 2 months ago and it's all anyone talked about for weeks. Pittsburgh has a lot going for it all stemming from Carnegie Mellon. Amazon, apple, and facebook all have small operations here. Google has a large office here. Pushing 800 people and Uber has their advanced technologies center here and it's arguably the center of self driving technology and robotics. With that being said there aren't enough people with the skills they'll need for 50k jobs.
Every city has their own issues and none tick all amazons boxes. Either to the to expensive or not enough talent etc.
Christie just announced that NJ will bend over backwards to put them in Newark.
Every city has their own issues and none tick all amazons boxes. Either to the to expensive or not enough talent etc.
Christie just announced that NJ will bend over backwards to put them in Newark.
Another article
http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf...e_amazon_war_editorial.html#incart_river_home
It seems Christie wants Newark.
From a NJ perspective it is probably better than Camden or JC where up half those hired may live out of state. Newark would still get some PA and NYers but I am guessing the % would be less than JC or Camden.
The article states that the winner of the 2nd HQ would lose out with huge tax breaks but as a potential employee I think individuals would win. It would create competition for a lot of roles and even if me or others are not hired by Amazon there may be a vacancy at another company because of employees leaving for Amazon. With up to 50k people hired it will require a lot of administration dept roles in HR, Legal, IT, real estate, vendor management, and other departments not related to Amazon's core business but required to have like every other company.
http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf...e_amazon_war_editorial.html#incart_river_home
It seems Christie wants Newark.
From a NJ perspective it is probably better than Camden or JC where up half those hired may live out of state. Newark would still get some PA and NYers but I am guessing the % would be less than JC or Camden.
The article states that the winner of the 2nd HQ would lose out with huge tax breaks but as a potential employee I think individuals would win. It would create competition for a lot of roles and even if me or others are not hired by Amazon there may be a vacancy at another company because of employees leaving for Amazon. With up to 50k people hired it will require a lot of administration dept roles in HR, Legal, IT, real estate, vendor management, and other departments not related to Amazon's core business but required to have like every other company.
It was a topic in the debate last night. Christine and now Kim want Newark and I get why. No way Camden...we have a building there that we are selling and while it's an attractive market because of the Grow NJ tax credits, as a realtor told me "In Camden....You are either in the bad or really, really bad section". (Fortunately, we are in the bad section...lol).
Selfishly, I'd love to see Amazon take over the Merck campus in Whitehouse Station. 500,000 sq.ft. of office on 1,000 acres. (and vacant). Would really boost our property values, but transportation options is a huge problem. That ain't happening though.
I think NJ will be in the final 3 choices for Amazon. If the state only allows the tax credits in Newark then we may lose. Not sure if Amazon desires to grow out their foot print in Newark to the extent of 50k new Newark employees.
They are smart so they may work a deal where the HQ2 goes in Newark but they also get credits to build out their presence in JC and other places in NJ. I passed buy a new fulfillment center next to the Walmart on rt 27 in Edison. If they can get the same tax credits applied to all their NJ fulfillment centers then it may be too good a deal to pass up and good for NJ residents who are looking for work.
As for the Merck building, it may happen. There was a rumor about Google going there 2 years ago. If Amazon gets the deal to build out outside of the HQ2 location they may look to a place like Whitehouse station if they build out a mail order Pharma business.
My neighbor is a Google exec and that rumor was just that. (Once again, I was hopeful only to get my bubble burst...there was a Hasidic community from Monsey that wanted the Merck property to rezone for residential/religious...that didn't happen luckily).
Good insight.
I think that Newark will be in the top 3-5 candidate with Philadelphia and Boston. Maybe Amazon might consider a combination of Newark/ New York, only a 30 min ride on the Path.
Even if NY wins, then NJ wins with thousand more commuters or other companies moving to NJ if NY rental prices go any higher. I wonder having so many drug companies HQ in NJ will have any influence if they want to get into the drug distribution business. Part of Medco is still in Franklin Lakes.
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Seattle Warns Cities as Amazon Looks For a Second Home
Today is the final deadline for pitches for those hopeful cities, but one place already knows the impact Amazon can have — Seattle — and it’s not all good.
"It was like this firehose coming at us," says Carolyn Adolph,a reporter covering growth for public radio station KUOW in Seattle. "And we found out some horrible things. We found out we should have built a proper transit network 50 years ago. We found out that our housing shortage was going to completely blow out of control. Now we've doubled the cost of the rent. And we've doubled the cost of buying a house, and there isn't any stock anyway. It's not a good situation for people who live in the city."
http://www.wnyc.org/story/hq2-and-seattle-and-after-amazon/
Today is the final deadline for pitches for those hopeful cities, but one place already knows the impact Amazon can have — Seattle — and it’s not all good.
"It was like this firehose coming at us," says Carolyn Adolph,a reporter covering growth for public radio station KUOW in Seattle. "And we found out some horrible things. We found out we should have built a proper transit network 50 years ago. We found out that our housing shortage was going to completely blow out of control. Now we've doubled the cost of the rent. And we've doubled the cost of buying a house, and there isn't any stock anyway. It's not a good situation for people who live in the city."
http://www.wnyc.org/story/hq2-and-seattle-and-after-amazon/
Well, with all the people supposely leaving NJ for North and South Carolina and Florida, people will be able to sell their homes. Quite a few Corporate HQ have gone South also.
Seatlle and the NY area are very different. Seattle is much smaller and adding a behemoth like Amazon probably strained their transit and housing.
With Newark the strain will come with those driving to work. Amazon pays for parking for associates in their Newark and JC offices currently. I can see a lot of individuals from towns without a train station deciding to drive to Newark. I have a train in my town and would probably drive if parking was free or heavily subsidized. I can just imagine how backed up 280 and rt 21 will be in the Newark area if you are adding 5-10k more cars to the roads.
I'm hoping NB gets the Amazon HQ selfishly because I think it would absolutely transform NB in a few years which would be an incredible advantage for Rutgers. I think the traffic issues would be a problem, but my ultimate utopia hope is that they decide to do a light rail which goes right through each RU campus and the curse of the busses is removed forever.
Newark/JC would also be great for NJ. The public transportation aspect, housing availability, education/job market couldn't be stronger anywhere else in the country (outside the tri-state)
Newark/JC would also be great for NJ. The public transportation aspect, housing availability, education/job market couldn't be stronger anywhere else in the country (outside the tri-state)
McCarter Highway is a disaster during rush hour & when it rains you need a boat. If Amazon goes to Newark, the roads won't be able to handle it...gridlock will be an understatement.
238 cities from 54 states / territories / provinces submitted bids.
One odds maker likes Atlanta. I personally believe it will be a location in the eastern or central time zone. For central it would need to be a Dallas, Chicago, or place that is equal to an Atlanta, Philly, Boston, DC or NY metro area.
One odds maker likes Atlanta. I personally believe it will be a location in the eastern or central time zone. For central it would need to be a Dallas, Chicago, or place that is equal to an Atlanta, Philly, Boston, DC or NY metro area.
The problem with Austin is it lacks a major airport. They may get direct flights from Seattle to Austin but if execs need to fly to various fulfillment centers across the country or other Amazon offices it will require connecting flights. That is why Dallas is a better choice.
Newark / JC has a huge advantage there with 3 major airports and Philly 90 mins away. Plus NJ has a lot of Amazon jobs already with multiple fulfillment centers, Audible, and Amazon Fresh.
Newark / JC has a huge advantage there with 3 major airports and Philly 90 mins away. Plus NJ has a lot of Amazon jobs already with multiple fulfillment centers, Audible, and Amazon Fresh.
You don't need a major airport for executive travel using private planes & jets, or even charters.
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