NIL - Where to divert the $$

JayDogSmooth

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Aug 18, 2006
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Interesting takes here on NIL. Some love it, some not so much.

Facts:
1. NIL was happening before NIL (Bag man, free cars, no show jobs)
2. NIL isn't going away
3. NIL needs to be regulated in some form or fashion

I'd love for us to be all in for football. Joining the KTR and going last night, hearing them talk about it and going to the TD Club meeting w/Schiano on Thursday where they're talking about as well has me fired up about the possibilities.

But it remains to be seen whether we collectively will buy-in, and if so, to what extent. Also, which corporations will we solicit money from (big, medium, small), and how many new donors / living alumni / friends will help out.

Absent of getting a mega booster (Phil Knight) to hop on board, someone hitting Powerball or the fanbase buying in all the way, it's admittedly a tall task to ask us to compete on the $$ level of the big boys for football. With that being said, I wonder if internally Pat et. Co. are talking about putting their NIL resources into bball, while not completely screwing over FB, as FB pays the bills and we don't want to continue losing by 30 to the Bucks.

FB need a payrolls for 85 guys. Bball has 12 guys. and you need 2/3 guys in bball to make a serious run in March (they'd get paid more than the rest).

I'm wondering if internally, Pat is content w/cashing B1G checks, having football be at or near 500 most years, going to mid-level bowls, w/a couple of 8/4-9/3 years sprinkled in and higher level bowls, while having bball consistently make the tourney and start to make some deep runs.

In addition, he'd divert money to the Olympic sports (soccer, lax, baseball), making us more well rounded, essentially in the Stanford model. Interesting to think about what will happing moving forward
 

RUBlackout7

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I don’t think we need to spend as much money on NIL as the big boys to compete. We just need to spend enough for a good QB, OL, and a few skill players. This would be a fraction of what someone like TAMU is doing to appease a lineup of 4/5 star players and recruits.

Money needs to be diverted from facilities to NIL. That includes all of us who donate.
 

WhiteBus

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I don’t think we need to spend as much money on NIL as the big boys to compete. We just need to spend enough for a good QB, OL, and a few skill players. This would be a fraction of what someone like TAMU is doing to appease a lineup of 4/5 star players and recruits.

Money needs to be diverted from facilities to NIL. That includes all of us who donate.
Diverting funds from facilities to NIL is a really bad idea for many reasons.
 

JayDogSmooth

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Diverting funds from facilities to NIL is a really bad idea for many reasons.
It's 2 seperate baskets
TV $ doesn't go towards NIL

At least initially, hat's part of what makes it tricky - if you're soliciting donors, which basket would they prefer?
We're getting an IPF and a FB operations building
In addition to some renovations to stadium / other sports facilities

But moving forward, how many buildings can you build? That's why I think NIL $ will be the focus
 

WhiteBus

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It's 2 seperate baskets
TV $ doesn't go towards NIL

At least initially, hat's part of what makes it tricky - if you're soliciting donors, which basket would they prefer?
We're getting an IPF and a FB operations building
In addition to some renovations to stadium / other sports facilities

But moving forward, how many buildings can you build? That's why I think NIL $ will be the focus
He wasn't talking about TV money. He was talking donations. Upgrades in facilities are constant. You still have to recruit and everyone wants the best facilities. Putting money into facilities is long term. Paying players who can get hurt, transfer etc is a bottomless pit.
 

RUKen

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It's 2 seperate baskets
TV $ doesn't go towards NIL

At least initially, hat's part of what makes it tricky - if you're soliciting donors, which basket would they prefer?
We're getting an IPF and a FB operations building
In addition to some renovations to stadium / other sports facilities

But moving forward, how many buildings can you build? That's why I think NIL $ will be the focus
I believe NIL is an added cost for Rutgers. Need to do everything else we were planning on doing also. Need the grand plan sources of funds. State and donors (corporate and individuals). It can be done.
 

rutgersguy1

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Diverting funds from facilities to NIL is a really bad idea for many reasons.
Professional teams screw up personnel decisions on college players with some history to review and gauge potential performance and scouting departments that go over everything. Try that with fickle high school players and less resources to analyze it all can lead to a lot of wasted money. Unless, I had tons of money to burn, I'd prefer my money go to things that benefit the school longer term.
 

JayDogSmooth

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He wasn't talking about TV money. He was talking donations. Upgrades in facilities are constant. You still have to recruit and everyone wants the best facilities. Putting money into facilities is long term. Paying players who can get hurt, transfer etc is a bottomless pit.
For football, once you’ve built the standalone and the IPF, it’s essentially upgrades and keeping up with maintenance.

Sure they will always be new things, but moving forward and NIL will be the big ticket item

That’s why it’s essential to get those two facilities built ASAP
 

JayDogSmooth

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I believe NIL is an added cost for Rutgers. Need to do everything else we were planning on doing also. Need the grand plan sources of funds. State and donors (corporate and individuals). It can be done.
Agree
Very interested to see what GS says about it tomorrow at TD Club meeting
 

NickRU714

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He wasn't talking about TV money. He was talking donations. Upgrades in facilities are constant. You still have to recruit and everyone wants the best facilities. Putting money into facilities is long term. Paying players who can get hurt, transfer etc is a bottomless pit.

So then where exactly is the doubling of tv money to over $100m going?
Even after getting over $100m a year the AD is still going to need all of the alumni donations just to keep the lights on?
 

NickRU714

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Professional teams screw up personnel decisions on college players with some history to review and gauge potential performance and scouting departments that go over everything. Try that with fickle high school players and less resources to analyze it all can lead to a lot of wasted money. Unless, I had tons of money to burn, I'd prefer my money go to things that benefit the school longer term.

"Benefit the school longer term"
That keeps being throw around for the moral reason for donations to AD instead of donations directly to players.

This is all well and good until the AD is using donation money to send players to Big Ten Media Day on a private jet.
That doesn't seem to fall under the "benefit the school longer term" bucket.
 

JayDogSmooth

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"Benefit the school longer term"
That keeps being throw around for the moral reason for donations to AD instead of donations directly to players.

This is all well and good until the AD is using donation money to send players to Big Ten Media Day on a private jet.
That doesn't seem to fall under the "benefit the school longer term" bucket.
Yes and no

Miami was a ho-hum university until the started winning

Then applications went through the roof, new buildings were popping up left and right and their prestige rose dramatically

Penn State was a nice college in the middle of a farm pasture with the 45,000 seat stadium, they’ve now become a world class institution in large part thanks to football (And no, I certainly don’t condone the way that they got there with that monster in prison)

Point is, is that academics and athletics are not mutually exclusive of one another.

Rather they should be mutually inclusive as a good athletics program boosts academics dramatically.

If that means buying players and sending them on private jets to press conferences, winning conference titles, going to Rose Bowl‘s and winning national championships, I would wholeheartedly advocate that that is the right move
 

rutgersguy1

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"Benefit the school longer term"
That keeps being throw around for the moral reason for donations to AD instead of donations directly to players.

This is all well and good until the AD is using donation money to send players to Big Ten Media Day on a private jet.
That doesn't seem to fall under the "benefit the school longer term" bucket.
Nothing moral about it. I'm looking at value for money. Facilities and such will be there and can be used by players and students longer term.

I don't have a problem paying players. I have a problem spending (limited) resources on players who don't pan out, transfer, get hurt etc.. It's the same as paying tons of money to coaches whose contracts get eaten up by the school way too often. I complain about coaching contracts here all the time. It's varying degrees of a crap shoot, even for professional teams and all the resources they have at their disposal to evaluate talent.

I'm looking at bang for buck. Most bang for buck is in things that will last. I'm not some rich billionaire who can burn money and not care.
 
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LETSGORU91

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Sorry to break it to you but most 4/5 stars have NIL being a top priority of their recruitment.
That's a damn shame. I thought college was supposed to be first and foremost about education. Welcome to the amateur, semi-professional league,
 

Plum Street

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That's a damn shame. I thought college was supposed to be first and foremost about education. Welcome to the amateur, semi-professional league,
It’s a shame but it’s been the truth for a long time . I think most people knew this and looked the other way . We puffed our chests out when a legit student like a Myles Johnson came along.
Now it’s just all out in the open and we can’t look the other way
 

JayDogSmooth

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That's a damn shame. I thought college was supposed to be first and foremost about education. Welcome to the amateur, semi-professional league,
Initially it was
Until $$ started taking over

When we joined the B1G, the time for amateur athletics quickly ceased

Some would say we sold our soul - I prefer to think we’ve evolved with the times
 

NickRU714

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Basketball is where the real NIL value is at.
Individual players can influence a team much more than football.

Also, the elite basketball recruits are much less of a crapshoot than football.
Because they can influence a game on their own so much.

Everyone talks about football NIL but you can build a championship caliber team with 3-4 players in basketball.
 

JayDogSmooth

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Basketball is where the real NIL value is at.
Individual players can influence a team much more than football.

Also, the elite basketball recruits are much less of a crapshoot than football.
Because they can influence a game on their own so much.

Everyone talks about football NIL but you can build a championship caliber team with 3-4 players in basketball.
Yep

And this is why I posed that question any initial start of the thread, as it’s much more affordable and possibly more realistic to do this via basketball

We can’t completely hose football as that pays the bills, but I’m trying to gauge if Bball is where we will ultimately put the majority of the big NIL money

If Kante and Harper come here in 2024, that could be and probably will be a program changing situation for hoops

And Iwould be wisely spent there as we could potentially make a very deep run in the tourney and change the trajectory of this program with those two in addition to the guys we currently have
 

koleszar

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"Benefit the school longer term"
That keeps being throw around for the moral reason for donations to AD instead of donations directly to players.

This is all well and good until the AD is using donation money to send players to Big Ten Media Day on a private jet.
That doesn't seem to fall under the "benefit the school longer term" bucket.
First, they need to get out of debt. The additional $60 mil. will accomplish that and then some. However, initially it's not going to be the money bonanza everyone thinks it is.

-There's over $20 mil. in University loans to be paid back at 5.65% interest.

-They're running a deficit of close to $20mil. in direct institutional support as well.

-Student fees are at around $12 mil. and although those aren't going anywhere, I'm sure they'll make a good faith gesture to eliminate some of that.

-You'll also have the added expenses of costs of doing business do to inflation and coaching salaries.

So add it all up and they'll eat through that $60 mil. pretty quickly. But they'll be debt free and have some left over to give to infrastructure projects which benefit all athletes.
 
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NickRU714

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First, they need to get out of debt. The additional $60 mil. will accomplish that and then some. However, initially it's not going to be the money bonanza everyone thinks it is.

-There's over $20 mil. in University loans to be paid back at 5.65% interest.

-They're running a deficit of close to $20mil. in direct institutional support as well.

-Student fees are at around $12 mil. and although those aren't going anywhere, I'm sure they'll make a good faith gesture to eliminate some of that.

-You'll also have the added expenses of costs of doing business do to inflation and coaching salaries.

So add it all up and they'll eat through that $60 mil. pretty quickly. But they'll be debt free and have some left over to give to infrastructure projects which benefit all athletes.

Those are all Rutgers problems - not "college athletics" problems.
Just because Rutgers has no extra money because of poor historical financial management doesn't mean the entire system needs to change rules to just to accommodate Rutgers.

"Rutgers has no extra money for NIL so NIL should be banned. Rutgers can't compete. It's rich getting richer."

Why not just change the words:
"Rutgers has no extra money for a dedicated basketball practice facility so nobody should be able to build one".
"Rutgers has no extra money or donor money to fire a coach and pay a buy out so nobody should be able to fire a coach early and pay a buy out or have donors pay a buy out".
 

rutgersguy1

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Those are all Rutgers problems - not "college athletics" problems.
Just because Rutgers has no extra money because of poor historical financial management doesn't mean the entire system needs to change rules to just to accommodate Rutgers.

"Rutgers has no extra money for NIL so NIL should be banned. Rutgers can't compete. It's rich getting richer."

Why not just change the words:
"Rutgers has no extra money for a dedicated basketball practice facility so nobody should be able to build one".
"Rutgers has no extra money or donor money to fire a coach and pay a buy out so nobody should be able to fire a coach early and pay a buy out or have donors pay a buy out".
I think that's true and more reason to be judicious in our use of limited resources.
 
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koleszar

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Those are all Rutgers problems - not "college athletics" problems.
You do know there's only about 25 to 30 Athletic departments in the entire NCAA that actually make money on a consistent basis.
 
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You do know there's only about 25 to 30 Athletic departments in the entire NCAA that actually make money on a consistent basis.
You are correct in this thread. Inflation will have a big negative impact on all of this. I know the football players look at the giant TV contracts and say, where's my share? But that money is all accounted for and every day they walk into the stadiums, practice fields, training facilities, special dorms... they are walking through a giant share of that money.
 
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NickRU714

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"Sorry, no raises this year NickRU714. We can't afford it as a company. But remember, we renovated the pantry on the floor. Also, we gave you a new laptop for work. Don't forget, we flew a couple employees to a conference on a private jet. Just think - one day you might be able to get on that jet."

That would go over great.
Just because the AD is incurring expenses, doesn't automatically make them more important than other new expenses (such as NIL).

It's on the AD to reprioritize and adjust and compensate.
 

NickRU714

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You do know there's only about 25 to 30 Athletic departments in the entire NCAA that actually make money on a consistent basis.

So then the entire college athletic system is built on a house of cards?
Why exactly is everyone saying it needs to be saved at all costs if it's in sure dire straits for most schools?
 

JayDogSmooth

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Agree 100% with this. BAD idea.
Initially it’s a bad idea because you have to get the football only facility and the IPF built. Once that’s done, in addition to other maintenance around the stadium etc. as well as other athletic updates like the rack across stadium etc., NIL will be the driving force moving forward and you’ll see a significant amount of money go towards that
 

AdventureHasAName

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Basketball is where the real NIL value is at.
Individual players can influence a team much more than football.

Also, the elite basketball recruits are much less of a crapshoot than football.
Because they can influence a game on their own so much.

Everyone talks about football NIL but you can build a championship caliber team with 3-4 players in basketball.
This has become a common refrain on this board in the last week and I hate to break it to you, but compared to football, nobody cares about basketball. Football drives the bus. There's a term for college athletic departments that emphasize basketball over football (UConn, Syracuse, Kansas, Duke) - "irrelevant."
 
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rutgersal

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I don’t think we need to spend as much money on NIL as the big boys to compete. We just need to spend enough for a good QB, OL, and a few skill players. This would be a fraction of what someone like TAMU is doing to appease a lineup of 4/5 star players and recruits.

Money needs to be diverted from facilities to NIL. That includes all of us who donate.
This is incorrect. Right now we should focus on facilities because there just isn’t enough support to play the NIL game. we can’t come close to the NIL amounts that OSU, Texas A&M, Miami, Bama, Texas, and LSU are offering. At least facilities will have a 100 year impact, so focus on that first.
 

JayDogSmooth

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This is incorrect. Right now we should focus on facilities because there just isn’t enough support to play the NIL game. we can’t come close to the NIL amounts that OSU, Texas A&M, Miami, Bama, Texas, and LSU are offering. At least facilities will have a 100 year impact, so focus on that first.
It can’t be either / or
Money needs to be allocated for both

assuming a check was written today, the earliest the IPF / FOF would open is 2024

Conversely, big schools are already forming war chests for the best players

I’m very intersted to see what schiano has to say about it Thursday at the TD club meeting
 
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This has become a common refrain on this board in the last week and I hate to break it to you, but compared to football, nobody cares about basketball. Football drives the bus. There's a term for college athletic departments that emphasize basketball over football (UConn, Syracuse, Kansas, Duke) - "irrelevant."
Can't both of you be correct? That basketball would be easier to wing NIL deals for a couple stars who elevate the entire program which might then pull in some big donors who want to jump on board? AND it would also be correct thta football "drives the bus"... and without football we'd not even sniff the Big Ten members shares.

Both might be correct.
 
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koleszar

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So then the entire college athletic system is built on a house of cards?
Why exactly is everyone saying it needs to be saved at all costs if it's in sure dire straits for most schools?
I don't know what you mean by this? But Athletic Departments were never meant to make money. Only recently and I mean in the last decade or so has it gone from maybe 3 or 4 to those 25 to 30 Athletic Departments who started to make money. It's typically always been a losing proposition for the overwhelmingly vast majority.
 

AdventureHasAName

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Can't both of you be correct? That basketball would be easier to wing NIL deals for a couple stars who elevate the entire program which might then pull in some big donors who want to jump on board? AND it would also be correct thta football "drives the bus"... and without football we'd not even sniff the Big Ten members shares.

Both might be correct.
You want to be Gonzaga? I don't.
 
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You want to be Gonzaga? I don't.
What makes you think that would happen?

If Rutgers basketball won like Gonzaga then Rutgers football would benefit. Same the other way around. Think Michigan State. You are forcing this into a binary choice that just doesn't make sense.

Besides, NIL is name, image and likeness and no two athletes, regardless of sport, shares the same name, image and likeness (twins notwithstanding). Each can get whatever it is their name, image and likeness can generate for themselves. And it is up to those providing the funds to decide whom they wish to invest in.. to leverage off their name, image and likeness. At least that is supposed to be how that works.. but that is not what is happening in all.. or even most.. cases. They are being paid according to their percieved value in helping a program achieve its goals.
 
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