NJ College Students Leaving By the Thousands

[RU Husky]

Interesting article in todays NYT. Ratio of out going to incoming students in NJ public colleges (of which RU is the flagship) is astounding. NJ ranks 47 out of the 48 Lower US states in number of out of state students enrolling in NJ public colleges -only Wyoming has fewer. Rutgers has always done poorly in attracting non-athlete out of staters. Each states total are shown.

NJ is definitely the cuckoo state-it lays its eggs in others nests.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...t-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Hasn't this always been the case? There are many reasons for it, as well, from the % of our high school students who get a secondary education (IIRC the highest in the nation) to our location. Not the end of the world, IMHO, but of course we need to continue doing a better job of keeping the BEST students at home.

 

[RU Husky]

Hasn't this always been the case? There are many reasons for it, as well, from the % of our high school students who get a secondary education (IIRC the highest in the nation) to our location. Not the end of the world, IMHO, but of course we need to continue doing a better job of keeping the BEST students at home.

Yes, but I never appreciated the extent of the migration until you see it graphically illustrated in the context of the other states. It was interesting to see which states had the positive ratio and which the negative. NJ's is off the charts and the worst in the country.

In addition to keeping more of the best at home, it would be nice to attract more of the best from outside NJ's borders, if the two were both possible.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

It is simple, NJ has one Flagship school, with the population so high here, it is hard for out of state students to get into Rutgers-NB. But going around campus we do well with international students from what I can see.

Besides Rutgers in NJ, there is Princeton, but that school is super hard to get into for everyone.

The rest of the Jersey schools do not have much appeal outside of the state. Maybe Seton Hall and Steven's does, but most students are not coming here to go to Rowan, Montclair State or Kean or even College of New Jersey, etc.

 

[RU Husky]

It is simple, NJ has one Flagship school, with the population so high here, it is hard for out of state students to get into Rutgers-NB. But going around campus we do well with international students from what I can see.

Besides Rutgers in NJ, there is Princeton, but that school is super hard to get into for everyone.

The rest of the Jersey schools do not have much appeal outside of the state. Maybe Seton Hall and Steven's does, but most students are not coming here to go to Rowan, Montclair State or Kean or even College of New Jersey, etc.

The incoming numbers do not include Princeton or Seton Hall- only to public colleges, of which, as you note, there are few attractive ones in NJ.

 

[chrisru99]

The incoming numbers do not include Princeton or Seton Hall- only to public colleges, of which, as you note, there are few attractive ones in NJ.

TCNJ is extremely difficult to get into and its small freshmen class each year is one of the reasons. My kid had a blast at this school and most kids who attend are all business. Most graduate in 4 years not 5 or 6 which is becoming a norm everywhere.

 

[mdk01]

Can't that be attributed, at least partially, to RU historically having little to no outreach to top out of state academic prospects? In particular, in comparison to UNC and UVA. UNC actually opens it's Morehead Scholarships to students in the top prep schools in the country and actively recruits them. And even if they don't get the scholarship, it puts UNC on the map for students at those schools who fall just short of Ivy/Stanford admission. UVA does extensive interviewing in top HS's at least in the Northeast, if not nationwide.

RU wants more top tier out of state students it has to make the commitment and efforts necessary to get them.

 

[srru86]

Hasn't this always been the case? There are many reasons for it, as well, from the % of our high school students who get a secondary education (IIRC the highest in the nation) to our location. Not the end of the world, IMHO, but of course we need to continue doing a better job of keeping the BEST students at home.

Yes, this has been the case for decades.
You identify one of the two key reasons. We have a lot of relatively affluent kids with better than average high school educations.
The second part is we have a low number of seats available for students in all colleges, particularly the publics relative to that popualtion.
For decades NJ has been in the top 5 states for funding elementary and secondary ed, while in the bottom five for higher ed.

Longer thread on RU issues Board

This has been a thing at least since the 60s and Richard Hughes

 

[mdk01]

SRRU - And you can probably tie in the funding difference to Abbott

 

[kapyoche]

College is way overrated. It is a lot cheaper to go on a cruise for four years reading books and taking online courses. I am surprised why cruise ships are not in education business. They can make more money that way.

 

[rutgersdave]

New Jersey is in the top 5 richest state in the country and our students can afford to go out of state. Do you think you can go out of state if you live in Georgia, Alabama, Miss, or Tenn where you probably make $50,000 a year? These are the people with no savings because you need to make over $80k to save substantially.

Our state doesn't want to pay for more in state students because it's financially doesn't make sense since we lose money per student and need subsidies from the state budget. We would need to build 2 more campuses to house the in state students. The out of state students pay for their cost but if we accept more OOS students, the public and newspaper would go wild about openings going to out of state students when it can go to deserving in state students. It's already extremely hard to get into the NB campus.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

TCNJ is extremely difficult to get into and its small freshmen class each year is one of the reasons. My kid had a blast at this school and most kids who attend are all business. Most graduate in 4 years not 5 or 6 which is becoming a norm everywhere.

It is a great school but not too many out of state students are lining up to go there.

 

[mdk01]

It is a great school but not too many out of state students are lining up to go there.

Most out of state students don't even know it exists! And that's not their fault.

 

[UMRU]

More than twice as many students from around the country go to Rhode Island and Connecticut (almost 2k each) as compared to New Jersey (only 970).

I am very surprised by this.

 

[ru66]

our tuition is way too high

 

[RU Husky]

More than twice as many students from around the country go to Rhode Island and Connecticut (almost 2k each) as compared to New Jersey (only 970).

I am very surprised by this.

Most of those are from neighboring states. For some reason I would have thought that most of the NJ out of staters would have come from PA, not NY, but with NY's population, I guess that makes sense.

Way back in 1961, my freshman roommate was from California and he wasn't a jock. That was a rarity.

 

[srru86]

SRRU - And you can probably tie in the funding difference to Abbott

Abbot is more a symptom than a cause. The bigger issue is we have a lot of affluent suburbanites willing to pay for good schools but aspire to send their offspring to "elite" colleges. Only so many seats at Princeton... so....They don't call Duke the University of New Jersey at Durham for nothing.

 

[cicero grimes]

Add Fred H to the list of those migrating out of state.

 

[RU Husky]

Abbot is more a symptom than a cause. The bigger issue is we have a lot of affluent suburbanites willing to pay for good schools but aspire to send their offspring to "elite" colleges. Only so many seats at Princeton... so....They don't call Duke the University of New Jersey at Durham for nothing.

Understood, but NJ has no offset to compensate for the fleeing elitists. I was startled to see that with over 10,000 leaving the state, less than 1,000 come in to go to Public U. NJ is missing out on the higher tuitions and geographic diversity that distinguishes other leading State U.

 

[mdk01]

our tuition is way too high

Actually, RU's out of state tuition is lower than UConn's and about equal to URI's.

 

[mdk01]

Understood, but NJ has no offset to compensate for the fleeing elitists. I was startled to see that with over 10,000 leaving the state, less than 1,000 come in to go to Public U. NJ is missing out on the higher tuitions and geographic diversity that distinguishes other leading State U.

Also missing is the outreach to bring them in.

 

[ecojew]

Back in the 60s and 70s, NJ "exported" around 40% of its high school graduates who went to college. That was largely due to the lack of capacity in-state. The percentage doesn't distinguish between public and private. The 40% figure was always the highest in the nation, and would only have been surpassed by Long Island (60%) if it had been a state. LI also has a big deficit in the capacity of its universities, relative to population size.

Isn't Rutgers, by law, limited in the % of its undergraduate student body that comes from out of state? I always thought that the figure was around 5%, no more than 10%.

There is one possible factor that can explain the figures for the various states in addition to what people have already mentioned above. It might have to do the very poor performance of the public schools in many states, especially in the south, which would make it difficult for graduates of those schools to gain admission in states with more competitive secondary education systems (like NJ).

As for income levels, NJ ranks very highly - #2 in most years, occasionally #1 in per capita income. That allows many NJ high school grads to attend public universities in other states despite the higher out-of-state tuition as well as to be able to afford private college tuition. It's hard to visit any campus around the country without running into students from NJ and LI.

 

[rutgersdave]

Understood, but NJ has no offset to compensate for the fleeing elitists. I was startled to see that with over 10,000 leaving the state, less than 1,000 come in to go to Public U. NJ is missing out on the higher tuitions and geographic diversity that distinguishes other leading State U.

New York has 10,000 out and 3,000 in and everyone wants to go to NYU and COLUMBIA.

 

[RU Husky]

New York has 10,000 out and 3,000 in and everyone wants to go to NYU and COLUMBIA.

Neither of those are public. The 3,000 go to SUNY or CUNY schools.

 

[imbazza2]

Old news back in the 60s we were the safety school to the Ivys ( all the geeks hated being here because they did not get into an Ivy) and that is the point we have 1 state U with a student population (over 70% go on to college) that exceeds capacity.
Still true today

 

[RUMBA-JK]

NJ would have to create several new high caliber institutions to have the capacity to actually significantly alter the numbers - but a huge problem is the
(1.) scarcity of land that would be sufficient / appropriately located to permit the development of a large scale university campus -
(2.) the prohibitive cost - even if such land could be found
(3.) the resistance to such a thing by the local population - NIMBY to the max
(4.) the power wars that would occur over control of any new institution

also - Honors programs at state schools have become attractive to ambitious high schoolers seeking a path to high credentials / Grad school / jobs - and in NJ if for one reason or another RU-Honors does not match what you want - and you want a larger school - you look out of state .

 

[RUfinal4]

this is because of a combination of factors:
1- heavy NJ immigrant population from Asia. Many of the spots in Rutgers are being taken up by kids whose parents immigrated from Asia. These individuals take up a lot of spots in Engineering, math, and the sciences.
2 - cost of attendance. At Rutgers all in it is about $31k. Out of state at comparable schools it is about 45k. Some of these out of state schools have well funded scholarships where the difference shrinks to about 5k more for out of state.
3 - Rutgers is an urban campus with Piscataway offering some of a suburban feel. Some out of state schools are more rural and spread out without the city feel of New Brunswick.
4 - NJ is a small state. Many in the Somerset, Middlesex, and Northern Monmouth areas feel Rutgers is a little close and not a true go away to college feel. For those who want to commute from home, it works though. I have spoken to a number of people in their 50s who sent their kids out of state saying that going to college 10 miles from home is not truly going away since they commute further to work.
5 - some kids don't attend Rutgers because there are 20-30 kids a year from their HS that go to Rutgers and they feel it is not a fresh experience if they constantly see HS classmates on campus. I know of 1 scenario where there were 3 kids from the same hs in the same dorm floor with 2 others on other floors.
6 - Money, money, money - NJ is a wealthy state so some parents / kids don't mind spending an extra 15k a year for an out of state school. To some the 60-75k total extra expense is worthwhile for a true go away to school feel. Especially if the kid is looking at Private schools along with out of state publics. A Lafayette, Drew, Lehigh, or Drexel will cost more than going to PSU or Delaware.

 

[Caliknight]

NJ's greatest export. College students.

Rutgers must attract and get more out of state students. They are working on it.

 

[LC-88]

Students stay in NC for two main reasons. UNC system is extensive both in geography, and top programs of study. Plenty of seats. Big one is instate tuition highly taxpayer subsidized. Have not looked in a while, but in the top 5.

 

[RU Husky]

Students stay in NC for two main reasons. UNC system is extensive both in geography, and top programs of study. Plenty of seats. Big one is instate tuition highly taxpayer subsidized. Have not looked in a while, but in the top 5.

Also no show / no test=A classes are very popular at UNC

 

[PaKnight]

I was not surprised by the number leaving, it was how few are coming in from other states.

New Jersey sent 991 to Delaware.

 

[RUScrew85]

The incoming numbers do not include Princeton or Seton Hall- only to public colleges, of which, as you note, there are few attractive ones in NJ.

And the attractive NJ public colleges are in New Jersey.

 

[srru86]

NJ would have to create several new high caliber institutions

A huge opportunity has been missed in not converting the old Fort Monmouth into a new State college. It already has a campus with dorms, classrooms, labs and recreational facilitates. It is a once in a century chance to build a ~5000 seat undergraduate college at a fraction of the cost of from scratch price. It would be in an area that is fairly desirable and has a significant local population that is not heavily served already.

We are not talking about trying to keep the best of the best. It is that echelon below. These are the NE transplants that fill corporate office parks from Atlanta to the Research Triangle.

 

[srru86]

Isn't Rutgers, by law, limited in the % of its undergraduate student body that comes from out of state? I always thought that the figure was around 5%, no more than 10%.

Sort of. Some years ago the legislature inserted language in the appropriation bill that penalized all the sate colleges for each out of state enrolled. They did not want to pay for out of staters.
That has been removed but all the college presidents understand that anything more than about 10% OOS is going to be looked at negatively by the boys under the golden dome.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

Rutgers Tuition is dirt cheap when compared to other private schools and some public schools in the northeast. CUNY and SUNY are cheaper. But Uconn and PItt and Penn State are the same or more.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

New Jersey is trying to build up other public schools.

For example Rowan and Kean, both are night and day from where they were 10 years ago.

NJIT btw, the other D1 state college has much higher tuition than Rutgers as well.

 

[RUJohnny99]

50,000 kids graduate from NJ high schools every year
7,000 spots for Freshman at RU-NB & TCNJ.

Not so hard to figure out why students leave. If you were a 3.5 student crowded out of RU & TCNJ would you rather go to Pitt or Montclair? Maryland or Rowan?

 

[sct1111]

The quality of students at Rutgers in terms of SAT scores and GPA is very good and is in the top half of the Big Ten. It continues to improve every year. Rutgers gets quality students from NJ. There just are not that many college seats when you include all NJ publics. Combine that with the fact that NYC and Philly have a lot of colleges and you get kids going to school out of state.

 

[knightfan7]

50,000 kids graduate from NJ high schools every year
7,000 spots for Freshman at RU-NB & TCNJ.

Not so hard to figure out why students leave. If you were a 3.5 student crowded out of RU & TCNJ would you rather go to Pitt or Montclair? Maryland or Rowan?

That kind of puts it in perspective doesn't it.

Both my kids stayed in state but that was pretty much an economic reason. I couldn't have afforded 2 overlapping in expensive out of state schools.

 

[RobertG]

A huge opportunity has been missed in not converting the old Fort Monmouth into a new State college. It already has a campus with dorms, classrooms, labs and recreational facilitates. It is a once in a century chance to build a ~5000 seat undergraduate college at a fraction of the cost of from scratch price. It would be in an area that is fairly desirable and has a significant local population that is not heavily served already.

We are not talking about trying to keep the best of the best. It is that echelon below. These are the NE transplants that fill corporate office parks from Atlanta to the Research Triangle.

When Fr. Monmouth was being BRACed Monmouth, Rutgers and Brookdale were all inquiring, don't know where those negotiations went or how far they got. But It would be a great place for a University. But as it stand right now the Charles Woods area has already been taken up with Commvault, Trinity Hall and some other companies. They are planning on demolishing the old Hex building.