if we received any NCAA sanctions. Makes me feel a little better about Hobbs’ judgement. Putting that in the original contract was necessary as we were under investigation at the time. Another case of Thanks Flood?
NJ.com-Ash’s extension was in his original contract...
- Thread starter Rutgers Chris
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The misunderstanding of contracts here is vast (how much is owed over time vs present lump, offsets etc) and causes great angst.
The automatic extension was rightfully marketed by Hobbs as a show of confidence--if it was mandatory as indicated, definitely think Hobbs handled it all well, but have to understand the situation to know that, something the SL articles have not.
The automatic extension was rightfully marketed by Hobbs as a show of confidence--if it was mandatory as indicated, definitely think Hobbs handled it all well, but have to understand the situation to know that, something the SL articles have not.
I thought everyone knew this, extension to match any probation period when they first hired him
Head Coach Chris Ash's first "contact", MOU...
https://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/...he_contract_terms_for_new_rutgers_footba.html
His "extension" ...
https://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/..._chris_ashs_contract_extension_why_rutge.html
https://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/...he_contract_terms_for_new_rutgers_footba.html
His "extension" ...
https://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/..._chris_ashs_contract_extension_why_rutge.html
Here’s the problem. We fell on our sword and offered up 2 years probation for extremely minor infractions, while schools with extensive serious infractions tell the NCAA to f off. So basically we gave Ash a 7 year contract off the bat, because we knew we would capitulate and put ourselves on probation.
Hmmm....well if he hired the right guy in the first place this wouldn’t be a topic
Maybe coaches need a little less encouraging and pats on the back and a little more fear of whips behind them, like players, and workers.
The talk about the extension is really a red herring and not the concerning issue. The big problem is that all of Ash's compensation is "guaranteed." There was no good reason to guarantee all of his comp. Where else was he going to go? Not accept a head coaching position without all comp fully guaranteed?
I still can't get comfortable with it. I was told no one would take the job without that clause...and maybe that's true to an extent, but we essentially gave a complete unknown a guaranteed 5 year deal for 10 million (which is the earliest you could can him). I just have a hard time buying it. It's probably why Hobbs has gotten Ash every single thing he has asked for, because he is married to him for better or worse.
About the only positive in the contract from a firing without cause perspective is that Ash would be required to find work as a head or assistant coach in NFL or college and his guaranteed pay is offset by anything he earns.
Also worth noting that the guaranteed comp gets paid on its usual schedule. Rutgers doesn't have to pay Ash $10 million at once -- it keeps paying him every two weeks until 2022.
Still way more money than anyone could expect the school to commit to at this point. I think he's at Rutgers for at least 2019, and possibly 2020 too.
Also worth noting that the guaranteed comp gets paid on its usual schedule. Rutgers doesn't have to pay Ash $10 million at once -- it keeps paying him every two weeks until 2022.
Still way more money than anyone could expect the school to commit to at this point. I think he's at Rutgers for at least 2019, and possibly 2020 too.
Yea that's been discussed here but I don't think it was necessary. We didn't have a Baylor/PSU/Miami level problem here. If a coach demanded it to come, I would have moved onto the next guy. We would have had to have a major scholly loss to agree to that.
You're essentially giving a guy a 6-8 year contract because of your worry about sanctions. Rhule got a 7 year contract for Baylor level problems, why are we giving a 7 year contract for nothing even close to that.
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Lump sum payments and not even getting offsets for future employment has popped a little lately but it's still rare. Usually the contract is paid out on schedule with offsets for future employment but you can see coaches/agents keep pushing the envelop and AD are patsies for it.
Really, not that I've seen. Kevin Sumlin and Todd Graham recently, I don't remember Bielema but I don't think so. Those 2 didn't even have offsets for future employment and I think Sumlin's had to be paid in like 30-60 days or something.
But I don't recall seeing many other payouts like that for coaches who get fired. It might happen but I don't think it's the norm. I mean look at the joke about Weis' ND contract and how only recently it was paid off in the last year or two.
It may become the norm the way these things go lately but I don't think it is now.
You can’t move on to the next when one guy kills it on the interview. Hobbs and brown both knew they found their guy
I don't even blame Flood for this even though I know it was tied to what he did. We got to know if it was something that was necessary to dole out or not and IMO it wasn't. Essentially a 7 year contract to a first time P5 HC (be it coordinator/mid major HC) isn't justified or necessary given our situation at the time.
Clink on the actual link that says contract. Its the MOU which specifically says it will be expounded on in the actual contract.
I don't think you're looking in the right place. The link that was posted, if you scroll down, is to the "Employment Contract" signed on November 25, 2017 by Ash and Hobbs. It is 11 pages long.
Right below that button is a visible pdf of and link to the actual contract signed in 2017.
If the "extension" was contractually obligated, then the question becomes was it wise to enter such a contract, binding the school to an unproven HC for so many years. I find it hard to believe Rutgers had so little negotiating leverage. I mean, we're paying the guy $2+ million for a dream job -- coaching college FB at a high level.
Sounds like Ash's agent just bent Hobbs over. I mean, wow!
I've litigated a fair number of contracts in my career, and I fail to see the wisdom is this one. Contracts define rights and liabilities, but the best ones avoid any type of potential future problems. Didn't anyone ask themselves, before this contract was executed, what happens if he's not the right guy? This isn't metaphysical legal stuff; this is like "Law 101." Someone was definitely asleep at the wheel here.
Maybe a transactional lawyer can comment.
Sounds like Ash's agent just bent Hobbs over. I mean, wow!
I've litigated a fair number of contracts in my career, and I fail to see the wisdom is this one. Contracts define rights and liabilities, but the best ones avoid any type of potential future problems. Didn't anyone ask themselves, before this contract was executed, what happens if he's not the right guy? This isn't metaphysical legal stuff; this is like "Law 101." Someone was definitely asleep at the wheel here.
Maybe a transactional lawyer can comment.
giving a guy who never had head coaching experience a guaranteed 7 year contract makes Hobbs look bad in my eyes and clueless to how to run a football program
Seems to be a lot of Lawyers on this thread. What Coach would not ask in an interview, including after you just fired a Coach (Flood) for performance on and off the field, hey any NCAA violations known here? If so whatever the infractions i would need additional years if it handicaps recruiting/bowls,etc.
Its like buying a used car without checking Carfax..
This is one time that NJ.com has reported the facts with proper due dilligence
Its like buying a used car without checking Carfax..
This is one time that NJ.com has reported the facts with proper due dilligence
Because no kid worth a damn is going to commit to a coach on a 3 year contract
Again, the problem was not the contract. The problem is who they gave the contract to.
If Hobbs made the right choice to begin with we wouldn’t even be discussing the contract.
If Hobbs made the right choice to begin with we wouldn’t even be discussing the contract.
Exactly!!
Not as bad as everyone thinks.
Also there is room for a negotiated settlement.
In short, we could fire ash and not have to shell out $10 Million Dollars.
Maybe, he shouldn’t, but maybe he gets one more year.
That only puts us closer to full B1G money in 2019-2020.
My guess is Ash is done after next year.
I don't buy the recruiting argument. It sounds nice for coaches and their agents to peddle but in practice I don't think it matters.
There are only a limited number of spots and playing time and so many kids transfer for it all time. Nebraska's back up just did after he lost out and he might have actually got playing time as Martinez got hurt. The coach is under contract for your 5 years so why does the kid leave? On the other end of it what does the contract guarantee you, coaches leave all the time too while they're under contract. So again what are you gaining/guaranteeing? The kid isn't guaranteed to stay, the coach isn't guaranteed to stay so the upside is marginal but downside risk is much more to the school if things don't work out and they have to eat more money.
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Well that's basically 2 sides of the same coin. The overarching point is limiting your downside exposure whether it's less years because it's all usually fully guaranteed or smaller buyout because you've tacked on a more years (that is less the norm though). We got neither.
I'm telling coaches and agents these days have their cake and eat it too, it's heads I win tails you lose and ADs are generally patsies for it. They can leave practically at the drop of a hat if they're good but you're stuck with a bloated contract if they stink.
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