lol. Yes, BE sucked when he was there.
Nobody here doesn't want Schiano because he failed at Tampa.
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Not the year to be looking for a coach
- Thread starter Caliknight
- Start date
people keep bringing up Schiano's time in Tampa DESPITE no improvement from the team with Lovie Smith in charge...
I don't remember anyone bringing up his time in Tampa as a mark against him. Am I missing something?
Some might but most don't. There's enough to debate about his time here. I don't hold the NFL stint against him even though he's not my choice at all.
BTW with regards to Herman and his buyout. I posted this in another thread but figured I'd post it here too.
I've said Herman's buyout can be an impediment for most schools trying to hire him but it's not like you can't be creative to get around that. There's always room for negotiating around it.
McElwain had even a bigger buyout of 7M at Colorado State and Florida worked around it. They gave CSU a game in Florida which would pay them 2M. McElwain had to pay 2M and Florida paid 3M in 500K installments over 6 years.
So there are creative ways to work around it if this is the guy an AD really wants.
A LOT of people bring it up. And actually if you're discounting the Tampa situation, you totally prove my point that you don't believe someone can learn or change because you're basing his entire ability to be a game day coach based on one job.
Yes, you have many years to build a case, but you're assuming he didn't learn anything from the NFL experience, getting fired, or the time off. Personally, I think that's rather stupid. People generally learn from their mistakes and different situations.
Would I like him back? Possibly. It depends if rock solid names aren't interested. My top choice would be Bo Pellini. I think he would make us a better team quickly. But part of me would love to see what Schiano could do selling the Big Ten rather than a conference that was falling apart. Schiano coached through the Big East falling apart, the emergence of Louisville and a nice period for the Big East with RU, Louisville and West Virginia all fielding good teams. And he coached through a second round of the conference falling apart and dealing with the possibility of losing the BCS bid. I'm one that thinks he would be a top recruiter if he could sell a top conference.
The tired old falling apart argument. One, I believe he was gone before the second falling apart episode. Flood was here for Pitt and Cuse IIRC. Second, still doesn't explain why he couldn't out recruit teams in his conference finishing third more often than not. As for learning, I's sure he could have but let's not forget it was his stubbornness that helped him build the program. You don't just change that overnight. Second, as long as he is coming back here to run a Pro Style then thanks but no thanks.
Yes, anyone ever heard their employer say:
"Well we want to fire incompetent employee, his results suck, we had to suspend him, and 6 people who report to him were arrested for violent felonies...BUT....we may have to pay his replacement more?"
The 5% must be a doozy in real life. I hope none of them work in HR.
"Well we want to fire incompetent employee, his results suck, we had to suspend him, and 6 people who report to him were arrested for violent felonies...BUT....we may have to pay his replacement more?"
The 5% must be a doozy in real life. I hope none of them work in HR.
7 openings and perhaps more to come this year, read this, yes Rutgers is mention:
http://www.campusrush.com/al-golden-miami-usc-coaching-corousel-1423076703.html
SIAP
http://www.campusrush.com/al-golden-miami-usc-coaching-corousel-1423076703.html
SIAP
I didn't verify this but sherrane posted this as a response to one of my posts in another thread. Actually seems like a light year as of now but of course we can expect more in the offseason. If these numbers are true then it probably seems like a lot more because so many happened during the season.
From sherrane:
There were 6 P5 coaching changes in 2014 and 7 in heading into this season, for 13 over the last two seasons. The previous seasons? 12 in 2011, 14 in 2012, and 13 in 2013. On average there are about a dozen head coaching changes that happen every year at the P5 / BCS level and the last two seasons were well below average. It is reasonable to expect 15 -- 20 P5 openings over each of the next two seasons.
According to football scoop there were 7 P5 changes last season.
http://footballscoop.com/news/2014-2015-head-coaching-changes/
Ok like I said I didn't look it up but 6 vs 7 isn't too big a deal for me. The double digit 12,13,14 numbers he was quoting seemed more surprising to me. It seems like a lot but I don't pay attention to know but if those numbers are true then this isn't even that many as of now. It may just seem like a lot because they all happened in season.
Thanks for the link. It has the changes for the 2012, 2013 as well. So last year, 2014 there were 7 P5 changes. 2013 there were also 7 by my count on the list. 2012 there were 13 changes. 2011 14 changes 2010 12 changes and 2009 10 changes.
I found a better link that goes back farther but the years are off depending on if you want to use the start or end of the season to identify the year the changes were made. But anyways looking back about 5 years, sherrane is right and there have been usually a double digit number of changes in P5 jobs. You can look back farther if you like but that's as far as I went.
http://www.collegefootballpoll.com/coaching_changes_2014.html
I wish this was true but AAC schools like UCF will probably pay about the same we will. As much as this is a better job that may be a better career builder than facing B1G East gauntlet every year.
There are no guarantees, even coaches some think are "proven" aren't guaranteed. That's just an illusion that some have. There are just a select few coaches that are locks most others aren't. Risk is always there.
If you make a change and fail, then guess what as with anything in life you try again. Not just for this but with anything you can't be scared into not acting because of the chance of failure. That's not to say act impulsively without thought, but if you've done that deliberation/analysis and come to the conclusion that taking action is the right course then you should do so and not be afraid of the chance of failure. If you fail then try again.
Two things as well. It's not as if you can say we're going to do much better with the current coach too. We may we may not. Everyone will have an opinion on that. A slow erosion isn't any better than a quick one and some may say it's worse. Second, we'll be getting a lot more financial support when we finally get a full share of B10 revenue. While I've said it's not some bottomless pot of gold and that we'll still need a lot of donor support to raise our entire AD, it is going to help a lot.
In basketball I see it with mid majors in football I'm not so sure. To get any real big career accomplishments it's going to be in the P5. In basketball you can make runs in the tourney and from multiple mid major spots. In football only 1 G5 a year is making a BCS bowl and pretty much never has a chance at the playoff and most of the other big bowls. It's also tough to stay ranked unless you have that magical season with just 1 or maybe 2 losses at most.
Speaking specifically at UCF yea they probably are one of the better mid major jobs with more potential. But I don't think you can say that about many others even ones that may be doing well currently like Memphis or Temple. Fresno State had a nice run with Derek Carr a few years ago and Tim Deyruter's name was mentioned from time to time, what's he up to now? Not much and again has become an afterthought if that.
So if you're a coach who has confidence in his ability, you will take just about any job in the P5. I can probably only count out about 3-5 destinations I wouldn't and we're not one of them. Now some coaches may be and can be a little more picky but that's not everyone. And contrary to what some idiot reporters might write we have a lot more potential than many other P5 spots between recruiting grounds, market and conference membership. We're obviously not at the top of the food chain but we're not at the absolute bottom either like some think.
Exactly and if you fail at a P5 you can always go back. No doubt Hoke could get job somewhere. One or two bad years in the AAC and your are never heard from again.
Agree with this. It's like what I mentioned Art Briles told Babers when he was deciding whether to take the Eastern Illinois job. It's the job that no one wants that you get and you can always go back to being a position coach any time. You can go back to position coach, coordinator or HC at a lower level.
Like I said maybe 3-5 P5 jobs I'd avoid if I'm someone who can afford to be a little pickier but not the rest. We certainly aren't in that bottom of the barrel group despite what anyone may write or think.
Yup that's another one but still it's not really out of the norm yet if you go back beyond the last couple years. What is it now? 8 openings. Going beyond the last 2 years, there were anywhere from 10-14 P5 openings in a given year.
The strangest thing is that so many have happened during the season as opposed to the end of the season. I can't really say it's going to be any more than normal yet. As of now it's kind of just pulling forward what would have happened later anyway.
The strangest thing is that so many have happened during the season as opposed to the end of the season. I can't really say it's going to be any more than normal yet. As of now it's kind of just pulling forward what would have happened later anyway.
We might not be - but USc hire will likely open up another job that will be at our level (or if its not - its because they took someone at the level we could attract.)
Where this could really hurt would be if a guy like Mark Richt gets fired. In a normal year, RU would be in prime position to pick up a guy like that - because the USC's of the world dont want a retread, and there just usually arent that many schools looking. Think of 2013 - at the end of the season the only jobs open were Wake and USC. USC quickly took Washington's coach - but being a West Coast team, there isnt alot of overlap in who we would hire. Basically until Mack Brown resigned in mid-December, we were the top job in the East. We would have had two weeks to find a coach without any real competition (sorrry Wake).
This year is completely different and pretty unprecedented - and frankly, probably not likely to happen again. So many P5 jobs from top to bottom. A Richt or Rich Rod type could go to any of a half a dozen places, and RU would have to overpay vs other years to get him.
Minnesota, Illinois, Miami, Maryland, probably Virginia. Thats just the teams on our level in the East. Either USC could poach a coach from an RU level school opening up even more competition.
So basically, the main effect on us is going to be that the price of a good coach is going to go up - and should we fire Flood this year, we will likely end up getting a worse coach that we would had we fired him in 2013, or after next season - assuming our budget it roughly the same for each year.
The problem is how you define incompetent. Thats the whole issue here. We all think he sucks. But his record doesnt reflect that. Again - go find me a coach with a similar record who got fired in years 2 or 3 with a similar record at a P5 school. Im sure its happened, but its rare, and almost surely that school was a top 15 or so school historically.
The last 2 years seem more like an aberration of fewer openings than normal. If you look farther back to around 2009-2010 there were about 10-14 P5 openings every year. The last 2 years were probably better to hire a coach because of less competition but this year seems more like reversion to the norm than an aberration.
My counterargument would be find me another coach with the record that he has on top of a similar amount of off the field nonsense who was not fired. The only coaches who survive that are your Sabans and Meyers, but even then, they are too smart to engage in Flood's type of chicanery.
Maybe his W-L looks OK, but dig below the surface, and his best win is one of Syracuse, Maryland, Cincy or Navy. That would not fly at most P5 schools either.
He also has more player arrests than wins in any of the 3 conferences we've been in with him.
He also has never beaten our main rival.
His recruiting is bad.
All taken together really tell the whole story.
So I did a quick look and took it even farther back on all the years available on the link I posted. So going from 2009 to 2001 here are the number of P5 openings.
11, 11, 12, 4, 13, 4, 11,8, 17
So the high water mark dating back to 2001 is 17 and the low was 4 a couple times. More years than not though there were a double digit number of openings in the P5.
11, 11, 12, 4, 13, 4, 11,8, 17
So the high water mark dating back to 2001 is 17 and the low was 4 a couple times. More years than not though there were a double digit number of openings in the P5.
If we don't move this year, we most likely will hire one of the retreads like Golden or Hazell next year. All possible good candidates will be gone after this year and any new coaches from the lower level will need 2-3 years to judge their results. A coordinator without any head coaching experience might be the other answer.
I thought you copied my response but realized I deleted the comment before it was posted. There really is a good chance Flood stays for 2-3 more years. Fans, about 80%, before this year were happy with him. So this is year 1 of a bad season, normally it takes 3 years of bad football to get rid of a coach. Fans like us realize how bad Flood is but it take 2 more years to have everyone in the administration convinced. Decisions aren't made so swiftly.
I knew he was bad after the second game of his first year.
Remember there was a movement to can him in 2013. Julie and 95% of fans want him gone. If the donors will pay, Flood is toast, or any coach at any college for that matter.
All true. And I want the guy gone yesterday.
But, here's the thing. This guy is the Gingerbread Man. He's like the stink in Seinfeld's car. He's Belushi making long distance calls from your house. He. Will. Never. Leave.
He'll do just enough to make it possible for the gutless/cash-poor/incompetent/(insert your thing here) admin to NOT get rid of him. At least until the big bucks kick in.
His career is like Mindfreak, only more sadder/amazing because its real.
I hope I'm wrong, but at least this board will provide endless entertainment on the issue.
I would not be so sure this time. We are looking at 4 wins on top of scandal, and donors who have told the media they don't support him.
If one of those donors is who the rumors say it is, Flood is done.
Not even close. He is winning more than a number of coaches, all with higher salaries.
Flood is here in 16. Some of the queens on this board don't understand it, but it he is here for the foreseeable future.
Then Flood must be the luckiest SOB in the world. He rarely wins against winning teams. He is a horrible recruiter. He has shown poor judgment in managing his players. He has acted unethically. And, yet ,in spite of all of this, he cannot be fired and may be here for several more years because Rutgers has no money and the administrators are incompetent. 2022 cannot come soon enough.
But Flood is such a lucky SOB.
