OC Continuity - should have tried to keep DM?

[NickRU714]

Pretty much all discussions about OC Kill are met with:

" We need continuity no matter what"
"How has changing OC every year worked for the past 150 years."

I didn't realize so many people wanted to try and keep DM last year, for continuity sake.

Glad so many agree that we should have kept DM.

 

[RUtix4me]

I was looking for one of those links that sends you to a song video. Check my calendar to see if it was April fools day. That kind of consistency was not what we needed.

 

[rurichdog]

I didn't realize Boy Blunder was fired

 

[rutgersal]

Simple question: why is the Kill run first slow the game offense the consistency we need and not the hurry-up power spread offense that DM (and Ash orginally) wanted?

Because our offense cannot consistently execute. So everything has been simplified. The idea is to slow the game down, and allow your opponent fewer possessions. It worked vs Illinois, Maryland, and Purdue. Just had no semblance of execution vs Indiana.

 

[RU-Nation]

Simple question: why is the Kill run first slow the game offense the consistency we need and not the hurry-up power spread offense that DM (and Ash orginally) wanted?

 

[NickRU714]

I didn't realize Boy Blunder was fired

That's why I said "tried to keep him". I'm sure we could have if Ash wanted to.

So you agree then?
Ideally we keep "Boy Blunder"?

I mean - it's all about continuity.

 

[bitnez]

Amazing that some fans think we have the talent to run anything other than what we have been doing. We can’t pass block, our QB isn’t great and we have a bunch of kids that don’t know how to play WR yet. Conversely, we have 2 talented RBs and our OL run blocks pretty well. I’d say that pulling in the oars and dumbing down the offense earlier this season during the bye week was very good coaching.

 

[NickRU714]

Simple question: why is the Kill run first slow the game offense the consistency we need and not the hurry-up power spread offense that DM (and Ash orginally) wanted?

I'm deleting this post.
I sidetracked my own thread.

Didn't want to turn this into an offensive philosophy thread. Will save that for another thread.

 

[NickRU714]

Because our offense cannot consistently execute. So everything has been simplified. The idea is to slow the game down, and allow your opponent fewer possessions. It worked vs Illinois, Maryland, and Purdue. Just had no semblance of execution vs Indiana.

To my original question - keep DM for continuity reasons?

 

[Knight Shift]

To my original question - keep DM for continuity reasons?

Spoiler: NSFW

 

[mildone]

I thought last season, and still think, Mehringer is very bright, and is likely to wind up being a very successful coach. And I'm not entirely convinced that, given an off-season to work on it, and perhaps a co-OC w/some more experience that can offload some of the responsibilities, he wouldn't have had us playing the type of game we're playing this season with equal success.

But after, last season, it would've been foolish to repeat the same mistake of all the high-speed 3 and outs. We simply don't have the people necessary to successfully pass the ball a lot right now.

Our much slower, run heavy offense this season has led to more wins than last season. Everybody has seen our passing issues so nobody can argue, rationally, that we'd have won more games by passing more often.

The two extra wins (a third against MSU would be awesome) will help with recruiting. If we finished another season with 2 wins, it would be very hard to point to any improvement when recruiting. Doubling it makes it a lot easier.

 

[kupuna133]

Amazing that some fans think we have the talent to run anything other than what we have been doing. We can’t pass block, our QB isn’t great and we have a bunch of kids that don’t know how to play WR yet. Conversely, we have 2 talented RBs and our OL run blocks pretty well. I’d say that pulling in the oars and dumbing down the offense earlier this season during the bye week was very good coaching.

What we see on the field this year is the results of not being able to redshirt a majority of the previous years classes. Most solid programs do not have a majority of position groups dominated by true freshmen, redshirt freshmen and true sophomores.

It also shows that there is a lack of leadership in the locker room in the upper classes. There is a vacuum of qualified leaders. Due to people no longer in the program and juniors/seniors passed on the depth chart by younger talent.

 

[Rufan922]

Hahahahahaha. No

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Amazing that some fans think we have the talent to run anything other than what we have been doing. We can’t pass block, our QB isn’t great and we have a bunch of kids that don’t know how to play WR yet. Conversely, we have 2 talented RBs and our OL run blocks pretty well. I’d say that pulling in the oars and dumbing down the offense earlier this season during the bye week was very good coaching.

DING DING DING DING DING DING ****ING DING!!!!!

 

[RUfromSoCal?]

Nobody could run out and get a Grande Caramel Machiato like DM...................

Even Drew Mehringer knew Drew Mehringer sucked.

 

[MGSA99]

2016 - 4 shutouts.
2017 - 2 shutouts.

Double the victory total. Cut the shutout rate by half. That is improvement.

 

[hiwater]

Because our offense cannot consistently execute. So everything has been simplified. The idea is to slow the game down, and allow your opponent fewer possessions. It worked vs Illinois, Maryland, and Purdue. Just had no semblance of execution vs Indiana.

This is the mantra/excuse, but it is not true. How are you limiting other teams touches when you have so many 3 and out. We had six straight 3 and outs at the end of the Purdue game. How many more chances did we need to give them? We did not "slow the game down, and allow opponents fewer possesions" in that case. The same can be said for most of our games. This argument only hold water if you can move the ball and get first downs.

 

[rutgersal]

This is the mantra/excuse, but it is not true. How are you limiting other teams touches when you have so many 3 and out. We had six straight 3 and outs at the end of the Purdue game. How many more chances did we need to give them? We did not "slow the game down, and allow opponents fewer possesions" in that case. The same can be said for most of our games. This argument only hold water if you can move the ball and get first downs.

Well that's the idea: to move the ball and get first downs. It obviously didn't work a lot of the time.

 

[G- RUnit]

Amazing that some fans think we have the talent to run anything other than what we have been doing. We can’t pass block, our QB isn’t great and we have a bunch of kids that don’t know how to play WR yet. Conversely, we have 2 talented RBs and our OL run blocks pretty well. I’d say that pulling in the oars and dumbing down the offense earlier this season during the bye week was very good coaching.

Don't we have four rb's including one that ran for over 200 yards in a bowl game?

 

[MrsScrew]

I see the entries for "Stupid Post of the Year " are still coming.

 

[zappaa]

Amazing that some fans think we have the talent to run anything other than what we have been doing. We can’t pass block, our QB isn’t great and we have a bunch of kids that don’t know how to play WR yet. Conversely, we have 2 talented RBs and our OL run blocks pretty well. I’d say that pulling in the oars and dumbing down the offense earlier this season during the bye week was very good coaching.

So next year we are minus our two talented running backs, with basically the same OL that can’t pass block returning, we can’t run basic screens or WR screens either.
So even with a serviceable QB, how will things change?

 

[AreYouNUTS]

So next year we are minus our two talented running backs, with basically the same OL that can’t pass block returning, we can’t run basic screens or WR screens either.
So even with a serviceable QB, how will things change?

Shocker how =bad the O was under Schiano as well - the guy so many here still worship - while he was building the program with D and ST's. Everyone seems to forget this fact lol! We all know the O stinks - and mainly why (talent/youth) - but Greg had 2 top 50 O's in 11 seasons OTB. Give Ash 11 seasons and I'll bet you a Stewart's Root Beer we get 2 top 50 O's as well!

BTW - at RB I'm sure that Blackshear and Smead won't miss a beat picking up for Martin and maybe Ash finds another 5th year bruiser to come in and fill Edwards role? That would be nice. Also, I mean, the OL has GOT to improve, right?

 

[bitnez]

So next year we are minus our two talented running backs, with basically the same OL that can’t pass block returning, we can’t run basic screens or WR screens either.
So even with a serviceable QB, how will things change?

Two things — player development and recruiting. If the current players don’t get better and we don’t improve the talent pool we will not be good. I don’t think installing a system this year without the talent to run it would’ve made a difference. I expect that as our players get better the offense will open up.

 

[newwavedave1]

Continuity is great if the coaches are good. Not the case with Mehringer.

 

[mildone]

I see the entries for "Stupid Post of the Year " are still coming.

I'm a competitive guy and a winner. So I keep trying to win it.

But people keep one-upping me. :)

 

[DJ Spanky]

I see the entries for "Stupid Post of the Year " are still coming.

There is real competition for that award this year!

Continuity is great if the coaches are good. Not the case with Mehringer.

Nice to have an OC who knows how to communicate with the OL coach!

 

[Scarlet_Monster]

Shocker how =bad the O was under Schiano as well - the guy so many here still worship - while he was building the program with D and ST's. Everyone seems to forget this fact lol! We all know the O stinks - and mainly why (talent/youth) - but Greg had 2 top 50 O's in 11 seasons OTB. Give Ash 11 seasons and I'll bet you a Stewart's Root Beer we get 2 top 50 O's as well!

BTW - at RB I'm sure that Blackshear and Smead won't miss a beat picking up for Martin and maybe Ash finds another 5th year bruiser to come in and fill Edwards role? That would be nice. Also, I mean, the OL has GOT to improve, right?

Eh, I don't know where you got your numbers but;

01 - Dead Last
02 - Dead Last
03 - 56th
04 - 68th
05 - 47th
06 - 22nd
07 - 34th
08 - 39th
09 - 53rd
10 - 103rd
11 - 65th
12 - 97th

That's 4 times he had an Offense in the top 50, and twice the team was mere spots out of the top 50.

01 and 02 were acceptable as to why the offense and well team as a whole was a complete disaster.

2010 had the LeGrand injury which demoralized the entire team.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Eh, I don't know where you got your numbers but;

01 - Dead Last
02 - Dead Last
03 - 56th
04 - 68th
05 - 47th
06 - 22nd
07 - 34th
08 - 39th
09 - 53rd
10 - 103rd
11 - 65th
12 - 97th

That's 4 times he had an Offense in the top 50, and twice the team was mere spots out of the top 50.

01 and 02 were acceptable as to why the offense and well team as a whole was a complete disaster.

2010 had the LeGrand injury which demoralized the entire team.

Wow - FOUR!! I was wrong - new culpa shoulda looked it up was thinking off top of my head STILL nothing to “write home about” lol - but com’on are you really going to defend those %’a??exactly ONE time inside the Top 30 abd sorry 2010 would’ve been horrible regardless. I guess 2012 doesn’t count either?

My point stands: this program was build on D and ST’s while our O stunk. [cheers]

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

2010 had the LeGrand injury which demoralized the entire team.

While true.. imo.. the 2010 season was foretold by the Syracuse game in 2009. Marone found the Achilles heel in that Flood-Ciarocca offense.. and all you had to do was send an LB aimed at 5-7 yards behind center and you will blow up every play.. run or pass.

This was because 99% of plays began with the QB dropping back with the back of his head to the LOS.. he would either drop deep to a waiting RB and handoff or turn around and look to pass.

It was the most inane scheme I have even seen.

For it to "work".. the OL had to stand up and, essentially, pass block on every down.. run or pass.. to not tip off that it was a run or pass. Gone was the idea of seeing an OL fire out and get tot eh 2nd level to block guys as an RB sped by.

Furthermore.. the QB only had a pre-snap glimpse as to who might blitz or what the coverage was.. with the back of his head to the LOS.. he had no idea what the coverage was.. whether his WRs ran the correct routes.. would be wide open in a few more steps... if a defender fell down on the snap.. all he knew was that he was either supposed to hand off.. or turn around then find his hot target.

Now.. that wasn't an every down thing. We still had shotgun snaps.. but it was enough.. when coupled with no way to punish a D for blitzing even if you saw it pre-snap.. it got ugly. If you have any games from 2010.. or that dreadful 2009 Syracuse game.. in your video library.. take a look with what you just read.

Legrand definitely had a huge impact... but that offense was solved by every defense because of the blueprint provided by 2009's Syracuse game. 9 sacks in that game. Disgusting.

 

[Scarlet_Monster]

Wow - FOUR!! I was wrong - new culpa shoulda looked it up was thinking off top of my head STILL nothing to “write home about” lol - but com’on are you really going to defend those %’a??exactly ONE time inside the Top 30 abd sorry 2010 would’ve been horrible regardless. I guess 2012 doesn’t count either?

My point stands: this program was build on D and ST’s while our O stunk. [cheers]

My point is, it's not very common for a team to be ranked very highly in ALL FACETS OF THE GAME.

As big of fans of Rutgers as we might be, is it realistic to be in the top 15-20% of all College Football in all 3 phases of the game?

 

[Rutgers'02]

So next year we are minus our two talented running backs, with basically the same OL that can’t pass block returning, we can’t run basic screens or WR screens either.
So even with a serviceable QB, how will things change?

I honestly thought this years team would be worse than last years. We lost a LOT of players from D and O line (JPO, Hamilton, Denman, Mueller, Nelson), WR (Agudosi, Tsimis, Grant (essentially)). I assumed this would be our downfall, but I’ve been pleasantly surprised. Guys developed. Granted, the passing game is bad beyond comprehension, but I’m still surprised by how we’ve played up front despite the fact I expected us to be worse.

While I think Edwards is a big loss, you cant convince me that Gus Edwards is irreplaceable. If things don’t change, HCCA seat starts to feel warm, as it should.

 

[RUSK97]

Wow - FOUR!! I was wrong - new culpa shoulda looked it up was thinking off top of my head STILL nothing to “write home about” lol - but com’on are you really going to defend those %’a??exactly ONE time inside the Top 30 abd sorry 2010 would’ve been horrible regardless. I guess 2012 doesn’t count either?

My point stands: this program was build on D and ST’s while our O stunk. [cheers]

I’d kill for mediocrity like a top 60 offense right now.

 

[miketd1]

I think it was the right scheme, but the wrong coach. DM was far too green for a P5 coordinator gig.

The guy at PSU would be a perfect fit.

Ironically, I think Kill would be a perfect fit for them too where he has the luxury of having top shelf players and would really be able to open up the playbook.

FYI: Folks on the PSU site aren't too fond of the spread offense and it's inability to properly feature a once-a-generation talent like Barkley.

 

[Rufaninga]

This is the mantra/excuse, but it is not true. How are you limiting other teams touches when you have so many 3 and out. We had six straight 3 and outs at the end of the Purdue game. How many more chances did we need to give them? We did not "slow the game down, and allow opponents fewer possesions" in that case. The same can be said for most of our games. This argument only hold water if you can move the ball and get first downs.

run the ball, keep click moving. Hike the ball when play clock is down to 2 seconds. Repeat 3 times and punt- run145 off play clock Last year, run up to line, hike the ball with 20 seconds remaining and throw incomplete pass. Repeat 3 times, punt - possession total 30 seconds. Do this 12 times.
This year game is over, last year go into half time and repeat.

 

[madchuck]

Most people actually weren't calling for Mehringer to be fired. Most posters said once he gets Lewis and Melton, the offense would look different. After Mehringer left/fired, people started bashing him. But if he was criticized when he was here, the holier than thou posters came out of the woodwork to defend him.

 

[FanuSanu52]

I see the entries for "Stupid Post of the Year " are still coming.

OP is an absolute phenom in the "most annoying poster of the year," too.

Don't recall ever seeing his name until a month or two ago and already I find myself rolling my eyes every time I see it again.

 

[Roy_Faulker]

Most people actually weren't calling for Mehringer to be fired. Most posters said once he gets Lewis and Melton, the offense would look different. After Mehringer left/fired, people started bashing him. But if he was criticized when he was here, the holier than thou posters came out of the woodwork to defend him.

What was the mess about him and Blaz not liking each other...what was the cause of that bad blood? Interesting that DM leaves and his subordinate is promoted to co-coach...

 

[Pils86]

all you had to do was send an LB aimed at 5-7 yards behind center and you will blow up every play.. run or pass.

With our current offense can't defenses do the same thing? I was at a party Sat night and caught glimpses of Cal. I don't know who is coaching or how their recruiting has been going but their offense was tough to defend. Wr racing past the los, sometimes a handoff to the wr, sometimes a handoff to the rb up the middle, sometimes qb runs or rolls out. Defenses don't know who to key on or what space to cover. It doesn't seem that difficult to run this type of play and many other teams can do it.

 

[RUSK97]

Most people actually weren't calling for Mehringer to be fired. Most posters said once he gets Lewis and Melton, the offense would look different. After Mehringer left/fired, people started bashing him. But if he was criticized when he was here, the holier than thou posters came out of the woodwork to defend him.

Absolutely. I criticized Mehringer about four games in (and it wasn't even severe criticism because he was so new at that point) and the "He's the second coming of Lincoln Riley" crowd attacked me as though I was talking trash about their mother.

 

[RU old timer]

I love to run the ball on 3rd and 7.