Frank Reich, OC of the Eagles, was fired from San Diego for a crappy offense and for not running the ball well. The OC who replaced him, also couldn't run the ball. Meanwhile, the Eagles are pretty much running the ball down everyone's throats. Ya think personnel has something to do with it?
OC Continuity - should have tried to keep DM?
- Thread starter NickRU714
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Thanks for taking notice!!
I've actually been lurking/rarely posting for years and only recently started actively posting.
Ive pretty much never post on the Current Events board either so that probably doesn't help.
As you are well aware, trying to have a civil conversation on what offensive philosophy will win Rutgers the Big Ten East is hard enough, let alone trying to have one over there.
You of all people should be interested in this thread. I'm trying to see just how hypocritical people are - blindly wanting to keep someone in power regardless of their job results or philosophy - just because they already have the job.
Very similar to some discussions you have to deal with on the CE board actually.
I'm assuming you wouldn't want to keep a coach just because of "continuity", right?
So far:
2017 avg time per drive 2.24min over 13.36poss/game
2016 avg time per drive 1.85min over 14.67poss/game
2017 is about 23 seconds on average longer per possession. But we are getting 1 less possession on average.
TOP:
2017 - 29.99
2016 - 27.17
2017 is about 2m49sec longer.
Plays per game:
2017 - 61.73
2016 - 69.00
I was already planning on posting a full comparison after the MSU game to accurately compare year over year.
Honestly it's not looking too different.
http://www.cfbanalytics.com/2017tempo.php
http://www.cfbanalytics.com/2016tempo.php
You slow the game down by not "going with tempo". Against Purdue we would run, snap the ball with 5 seconds on the play clock, run, repeat, for a 3 & out. Mehringer's offense would throw an incomplete, race up to the line, snap the ball with 25-30 seconds on the clock, throw another incomplete, repeat, for a 3 and out. After 6 series, we probably shaved 6 extra minutes off the clock using Kill's offense as opposed to Mehringer's.
Mehringers offense would Run for 1 yard, incomplete pass, screen pass to Harris on 3rd and 8 for a 2 yard gain and then punt. Kills offense just takes a longer time to go 3 and out.
TOP: Rutgers 27:54 - Purdue 32:06
Every game we won this year, we actually lost the TOP.
Maryland - 28:54
Illinios - 28:15
Purdue - 27:54
We won TOP in 4 games so far:
Wash - 38:09
EMU - 30:23
OSU 35:26
PSU - 32:29
TOP average on the season:
2017 - 29.99
2016 - 27.17
2017 is about 2m49sec longer.
Yes, which slows the game down. Fewer plays get run because the clock gets chewed up. Slower game does not mean more time on the clock, it means less.
When the spread was relatively new, Appalachian State could beat Michigan and Rich Rodriguez and Gus Malzahn were considered geniuses.
Now that teams have had some time to develop defensive countermeasures, there had been some regression to the mean.
It's still a good way to get non-power, speedy personnel on the field, but now you need skill talent to beat Goliath. Scheme alone isn't enough.
Now that teams have had some time to develop defensive countermeasures, there had been some regression to the mean.
It's still a good way to get non-power, speedy personnel on the field, but now you need skill talent to beat Goliath. Scheme alone isn't enough.
Don't forget New Hampshire beat us with the spread. Not just beat us, slaughtered us. Now everyone is doing it.
There were some who felt we just needed personnel better suited to his schemes.. they were trying to be supportive and helpful.. because slamming your coaches during recruiting season is not somehting to take lightly.
I can say that some of the things DM was criticized are still happening today. Example: On 3rd and 6 throwing 3 yard passes to covered receivers. Though we'd often get mismatches of down and distance to play called.. that happens far less often now.
The difference now, is that we just look like a bad offense, last year, we looked totally confused on top of being bad...
I'd rather confused than bad.
Confused can be fixed by teaching.
It was a completely new system that most of the players didn't fit or know. The point is to take the time to turnover the roster and get players who won't be confused.
Our current system is supposed to be better suited to the players and is still terrible.
I have come to the conclusion that we have parts of QBs and no complete QB. I don't see them all enough to KNOW this.. but I find it difficult to believe that every WR, TE and RB cannot be part of an effective passing game... and that the OL is so bad it cannot protect a QB no matter who the opponent is. I think the problem has to be the QB position.
I tend to agree but I do not want to put all of the blame on one person. We do not have a dynamic QB in that room that is ready to play. Hoping Lewis could be that guy. But to put a true freshmen in that position is less than desirable.
Our QB's do not see the field very well. Our receivers have been open. They just do not stay open and that is what the issue has been. The QB does not see them open. He does not trust his eyes and throws late or throws early. He has had a very difficult time throwing on time.
The O-line has shown improvement. They look good on downhill fire off the ball run blocking. Their issue has been prolonged pass protection. But since the QB has shown a propensity to hold onto the ball vs. throw the ball on time the D can be more aggressive upfront.
WR/TE's the younger guys have had issues getting off of press coverage consistently but as I have said they have been open. They just have not been open on the long verticals and routes that take time to develop. The quick hitters and slants have been there for the taking. The ball just has not been delivered on time.
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It was a confused that was not going to be corrected. Players were confused because of the communications between coaches that started with DM...
Well, one other thing to know is that he could not communicate to Blazek (the OL coach) what kind of protection schemes he needed for his plays.
I'll give Mehringer credit........... No one could run a 3-and-out faster than he could............
Disagree
Drew id a pompous ass and I couldn't wait for him to go
His post game press conferences were an exercise in "not my fault, the players suck". It was over the top
The comments he made about Odin and trouble at the one press conference were baffling
He has a lot of growing up to do in order to become a successful coach and this wasn't the place for it
That's you but when people said stuff about him when he was hear the usual people defended him.
Nick- at first I thought your OP was pure trolling or delusional. Now, I am not sure if it was intended to be either but in a way, it really is. You pointed out a few posts ago you were baiting the fanbase on this one...Trolling and then I see some of your arguments and I see...delusional
I don't know if Kill is the best OC but he at least knows something about it and if he had the talent, it could be very successful even if not super exciting. Let's see what happens if he stays for 3 years and then if we could have a line of succession to someone like Blaze and see what happens when you have a QB/OL/WR/RB etc with the same coaching for more than 1 year. Kill also brings so much more to the table for this team.
Anyway- nice trolling
I don't know if Kill is the best OC but he at least knows something about it and if he had the talent, it could be very successful even if not super exciting. Let's see what happens if he stays for 3 years and then if we could have a line of succession to someone like Blaze and see what happens when you have a QB/OL/WR/RB etc with the same coaching for more than 1 year. Kill also brings so much more to the table for this team.
Anyway- nice trolling
I guess it is a bit trolling but what's this called:
Pretty much every time anyone suggest maybe Kill should be replaced the response is "but continuity. How did changing OC every year work for the last 10 years? We need continuity for continuity sake. Doesn't matter how the team performed."
"Ok, but didn't that apply last year too? So you think we should have tried to keep DM?"
"Oh no. He was a terrible coach. He cried! He needed to go. He ran fast 3 and outs."
Regarding Kill, everything you said could have applied last year. My understanding is that Kill hasn't been OC in many years and at Minny he didn't call the plays - his longtime OC did.
Kill needs his players. I would argue the players are even further from what is needed for the offense DM wanted. It makes sense the offense was so bad - the players were a terrible fit. The Kill offense was supposed to better fit the current players. "But we have no talent. No QB." Ok, same applied last year - didn't seem to matter. DM and his system needed to go anyway.
I disagree that a heavy run based, slow down offense will ever win Rutgers the Big Ten East. I don't see how we ever run over OSU PSU UM MSU consistently.
And it's not about "exciting". It's about effective. Id rather we go all the way and run the triple option if that's how we are going. At least that might provide a schematic advantage. Because Rutgers will never have a talent advantage against those teams.
I was fine throwing away last year and even this year to implement the system ASH said he wanted. Turn over the roster, get the players in shape to go up tempo and see where we were after 3 years.
Unfortunately Coach Ash went the opposite way and hired Kill and reverted to the same offense Rutgers has been running for years to limited success.
The problem is this...DM could have had a offense that had Britt/Rice/Leonard as his skill players and it still was not going to work. The man designed plays and then told his OL coach to figure out how to block for it. And then to make matters worse, since he had NO clue about OL, there was no further discussion or tweaks to a play. The plays he had in his mind had no foundation and vision as to how to make them work with a few changes.
I don't know about the conflict with Blaze but I'll assume this is the case. I've seen it come up a few times now.
That seems like a great reason to move on from DM then. You need the entire offense to be on the same page. Can't have someone causing conflict like that. Especially with a new coaching staff.
See, continuity for continuity sake isnt a good idea. Every situation is different.
Not a reason to move on from a more progressive offense IMO.
Bring in an another OC that will run the system Ash himself said said he wanted.
I tend to get what Nick is saying. If DM wasn't such a fragile milksop and had grown up through all the adversity from last season and learned how to work with Blaze, it might've been to the program's advantage to have kept him. Assuming he actually learned and adjusted the offense based on personnel, we 'could've' been a step ahead by now, but I doubt we would've had a similar or even better record now. But all the above is a lot to ask for. DM was damaged goods by the end of the season and I'm not sure if he'll recover. Being back under Hermann could help, but I'm not sure if he has the internal fortitude to be 'the man', either as an OC or even Co-OC.
That Ash went to other end of the spectrum in terms of experience & type of offense was a bit step back, despite the perceived improvement. Could he have achieved the same perceived improvement & stability by going with another OC who had more experience but tended to more the spread than the power? Maybe, but the budget & available candidates narrowed his choices and it is doubtful he wanted another tyro to be his OC again. At least Kill helped stabilize the ship, which is a none too important factor when it comes to recruiting. Whether Kill can really progress and transition to a more spread offense that Ash really wants is in question, though, and it will be interesting to see how the staff changes over the off-season. Besides a QB coach, I would like to see a Co-OC brought in who could incorporate a more spread option/up-tempo bias for the future. I don't see Kill lasting past next season, whether due to his health or lack of offensive progression, and Ash needs to move forward on his plan.
That Ash went to other end of the spectrum in terms of experience & type of offense was a bit step back, despite the perceived improvement. Could he have achieved the same perceived improvement & stability by going with another OC who had more experience but tended to more the spread than the power? Maybe, but the budget & available candidates narrowed his choices and it is doubtful he wanted another tyro to be his OC again. At least Kill helped stabilize the ship, which is a none too important factor when it comes to recruiting. Whether Kill can really progress and transition to a more spread offense that Ash really wants is in question, though, and it will be interesting to see how the staff changes over the off-season. Besides a QB coach, I would like to see a Co-OC brought in who could incorporate a more spread option/up-tempo bias for the future. I don't see Kill lasting past next season, whether due to his health or lack of offensive progression, and Ash needs to move forward on his plan.
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