OT: 2021 NY Giants Off Season Thread

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Postman_1

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I definitely feel they are trending in a better direction then last offseason. Resigning Leonard Williams is probably their number one priority. At what price is too high though? He did have a career year. They still have a lot of holes to fill
 

RU-05

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I definitely feel they are trending in a better direction then last offseason. Resigning Leonard Williams is probably their number one priority. At what price is too high though? He did have a career year. They still have a lot of holes to fill
I think you have to accept that he will be amongst the highest paid d-linemen in the league.

With Williams and the interior guys, if we were to get another pass rusher on the opposite end, this defense goes to another level. We might not have had a great pass rush this past year, but I think all our guys take up alot of space, add a true pass rusher and that guy gets alot of room to roam, or if they want to focus on that other guy, then Williams and the interior guys find even more space.

Our 2 most recent super bowl runs were built around a d-line that terrorized opposing QB's. I'd follow that blue print.

Williams ability to play the run or the pass and his ability to stay on the field make him a guy we need to keep.
 

NickRU714

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Here is the Giants current Cap situation going into next year.
https://overthecap.com/calculator/new-york-giants/

About 16m available.
This doesn't include Leonard Williams, Dalvin Tomlinson or the new deal for Logan Ryan (approx 7mil I saw).

If the Giants want to keep Williams it is going to have to start at close to $20m per year.
He already made $16mil in 2020 on the Franchise Tag. Can't expect that to go down.

I've read it might be an either/or for Williams and Tomlinson.
 
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RU-05

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Here is the Giants current Cap situation going into next year.
https://overthecap.com/calculator/new-york-giants/

About 16m available.
This doesn't include Leonard Williams, Dalvin Tomlinson or the new deal for Logan Ryan (approx 7mil I saw).

If the Giants want to keep Williams it is going to have to start at close to $20m per year.
He already made $16mil in 2020 on the Franchise Tag. Can't expect that to go down.

I've read it might be an either/or for Williams and Tomlinson.
Would love to keep them both but if I had to choose it's Williams pretty easy.
 

Postman_1

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Here is the Giants current Cap situation going into next year.
https://overthecap.com/calculator/new-york-giants/

About 16m available.
This doesn't include Leonard Williams, Dalvin Tomlinson or the new deal for Logan Ryan (approx 7mil I saw).

If the Giants want to keep Williams it is going to have to start at close to $20m per year.
He already made $16mil in 2020 on the Franchise Tag. Can't expect that to go down.

I've read it might be an either/or for Williams and Tomlinson.
Now what if they cut the cap to $175 million like is rumored? Gettleman was talking about this today at his presser saying we just dont know what it will be yet. Of coarse most would rather have Williams over Tomlinson but Tomlinson will come a lot cheaper IMO but doesn't get to the QB as much as Williams and thats something the Giants need/lack. Not to mention there is a glaring hole for a #1 WR. There are a few good FA WR's that may become available but depends on the cap situation.
 

mdk01

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Here is the Giants current Cap situation going into next year.
https://overthecap.com/calculator/new-york-giants/

About 16m available.
This doesn't include Leonard Williams, Dalvin Tomlinson or the new deal for Logan Ryan (approx 7mil I saw).

If the Giants want to keep Williams it is going to have to start at close to $20m per year.
He already made $16mil in 2020 on the Franchise Tag. Can't expect that to go down.

I've read it might be an either/or for Williams and Tomlinson.

Looks like cutting Solder gets them another 6M of 2021 space.
 

NickRU714

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Looks like cutting Solder gets them another 6M of 2021 space.

Cut Solder (6m) Zietler (12m) and Tate (6m) brings vap space up to about $40m.

Minus 7m (Logan Ryan) and 20m (Williams) brings it back down to about $13m.

A free agent WR1 is basically out of the picture.

I also would like them to invest in a veteran QB2 as well. In case Jones gets injured or has another "uneven" season.
 

RU-05

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Cut Solder (6m) Zietler (12m) and Tate (6m) brings vap space up to about $40m.

Minus 7m (Logan Ryan) and 20m (Williams) brings it back down to about $13m.

A free agent WR1 is basically out of the picture.

I also would like them to invest in QB2 as well. In case Jones gets injured or has another "uneven" season.
Use the first pick on a WR. Pass rusher is another option but I think a #1 wr is a bigger need.

I'd like a better option then McCoy, but I'm also not looking to spend money on a backup QB.
 

NickRU714

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Also, not to completely sidetrack this thread but since everyone keeps bringing up needing an elite WR1.
It is quite funny reading back on all the OBJ trade threads.
One of the reasons I was against the OBJ trade was that a new young QB sure could use a high-end WR to help him out.
Turns out OBJ wasn't a WR1 anymore (seems injury-prone at this point).

A lot of people shouted back:
"Look at the Patriots! They don't have elite WRs."
"Only 3 WRs have made the Pro-Bowl and the Super Bowl in the same year in the last 20 years."
"Paying big money for a WR is a waste of cap space."
 

RU-05

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Also, not to completely sidetrack this thread but since everyone keeps bringing up needing an elite WR1.
It is quite funny reading back on all the OBJ trade threads.
One of the reasons I was against the OBJ trade was that a new young QB sure could use a high-end WR to help him out.
Turns out OBJ wasn't a WR1 anymore (seems injury-prone at this point).

A lot of people shouted back:
"Look at the Patriots! They don't have elite WRs."
"Only 3 WRs have made the Pro-Bowl and the Super Bowl in the same year in the last 20 years."
"Paying big money for a WR is a waste of cap space."
My argument was always he was too much of a headache, not that a player of that ability is not a good thing to have.

Now I don't think we need a player quite at that level, but a guy you can call a legit #1 would have a big impact. Then you slot in Smith, Slayton, and perhaps Engram and I think we are solid in that regard.

Plus the return of Barkley.
 
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RUInsanity

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Cut Solder (6m) Zietler (12m) and Tate (6m) brings vap space up to about $40m.

Minus 7m (Logan Ryan) and 20m (Williams) brings it back down to about $13m.

A free agent WR1 is basically out of the picture.

I also would like them to invest in a veteran QB2 as well. In case Jones gets injured or has another "uneven" season.


Thanks for the link to the salary cap tool, pretty cool. Thing that is confusing to me is that if you switch teams in the tool, every team has a different Salary Cap limit/ceiling - so this is confusion. I.e ....Giants cap limit is $182M, Eagles is $199M and Cowboys is $203M.
 
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RU at the shore

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Thanks for the link to the salary cap tool, pretty cool. Thing that is confusing to me is that if you switch teams in the tool, every team has a different Salary Cap limit/ceiling - so this is confusion. I.e ....Giants cap limit is $182M, Eagles is $199M and Cowboys is $203M.

Not sure if this accounts for what you are talking about , but there is some opportunity for teams to carry-over some portion of unused cap space
 

RU at the shore

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Giants have plenty of needs

Unfortunately, the money is tight. Signing L. Williams to a huge deal is unavoidable. Hopefully he can live up to it.

Would like to get Tomlinson to return as well, but the Giants usual m.o. is to draft DTs and then let them walk on the second contract. I think hes gone.

Will probably cut both Soldier and Zietler. I would prefer that they kept and started both. Solder started out as a RT. I am certain he could be restructured. Zietler could be extended. Both moves would open up some (not a lot) of cap space.

Gallman is a FA. Not huge money , but would like to see him back.
Hopefully CB Beal returns from the Covid list. If he comes back and is effective, I think the DBs are strong. Gettleman deserves credit for overhauling this unit.

In the draft we will need a WR and DL early. If Tomlinson leaves, probably 2 DLs.

New backup QB.

Fill in the gaps.

Draft well.

Again, i don't see money available for big free agents.
 

NickRU714

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Thanks for the link to the salary cap tool, pretty cool. Thing that is confusing to me is that if you switch teams in the tool, every team has a different Salary Cap limit/ceiling - so this is confusion. I.e ....Giants cap limit is $182M, Eagles is $199M and Cowboys is $203M.

I randomly came across that site
I had to force myself to stop playing with it.

NFL contracts are confusing as hell though with all the segments (workout bonus, etc).

For example, I added Logan Ryan contract as just a 1 year 7m base salary and left the rest blank.

Also had the team cutting everyone to make cap space.
Do we really need a full 53 players???
 

rutger80

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WR choices: Smith, Waddle or Chase.
Get a pass-rushing DE
Linebacker with speed...really want to see the Giants draft and develop a linebacker...been a long time. Reese and Gettleman seem to like signing FA LBs.
 
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RUInsanity

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I randomly came across that site
I had to force myself to stop playing with it.

NFL contracts are confusing as hell though with all the segments (workout bonus, etc).

For example, I added Logan Ryan contract as just a 1 year 7m base salary and left the rest blank.

Also had the team cutting everyone to make cap space.
Do we really need a full 53 players???

LOL - I agree - I was playing with it for a while. I've used Spotrac for this before but the OvertheCap site seems easier to use. That said, I think the Giants will either rework or cut Solder & Zeitler - can't be sure but I think if they wait until June 1 they appear to get more cap relief. They should also cut Tate.

Probably enough room to bring back Williams. I would not pay a #1 WR free agent, instead draft Edge / LB in round 1 and look to a 2nd / 3rd round WR in the draft. If they can swing it, bring in a Tier 2 WR as a FA (JuJu, Davis, Samuel, Fuller, Watkins). JuJu will likely be too expensive but I actually think a healthy Fuller (assuming he's clear of PEDs) has close to OBJ type skills. I wait on back-up RBs off the scrap heap - Giants will be riding with Barkley and his salary - so not worth spending anything significant for a backup and 2020 proved the team can plug in any number of equal type guys (Freeman, Gallman, Morris).
 

mdk01

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I agree that Edge is #1 on the draft priority. And I think the WRs are deep enough to take one in the 2nd or 3rd.

Has anyone thought about TE? On the periphery, anyone think Kaden Smith can't take the place of Toilolo as the #2 TE and free up Toilolo's almost 3 Mil. cap hit? And then there is Engram. That's 6 million and I don't know what to do.
 
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Postman_1

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I agree that Edge is #1 on the draft priority. And I think the WRs are deep enough to take one in the 2nd or 3rd.

Has anyone thought about TE? On the periphery, anyone think Kaden Smith can't take the place of Toilolo as the #2 TE and free up Toilolo's almost 3 Mil. cap hit? And then there is Engram. That's 6 million and I don't know what to do.
Edge is definitely a major need and so is CB along with numbah 1 WR. Taking a WR with first round pick seems riskier then other positions. So many hyped receivers bust. I think the O line still isn’t as good or complete like people say. Zeitler is a big cap hit but he is out most consistent O lineman. Engram gotta go. He hurts the team more then he helps. Hopefully Gettleman can find a trade partner.
 

brad1218

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What about trading a third or fourth for Julio Jones? Somewhat risky but it is a relatively cap friendly contract. Would be a steal if he could stay healthy.
 

RU Cheese

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Strong no to Julio Jones.

In the NHL, contracts are gaurunteed and tracking cap math is straight forward. In the NFL, its not, and its best to think about cap space as being directional rather than absolute. There's lots of ways to restructure existing deals that basically free up a few million dollars here or there. ("Free" is misleading as technically your just postponing some of the hit)
 

Sec127

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Julio Jones for a third or 4th? I'd hate to be Atlanta's soon to be ex-GM if that trade is made.
 

DJ Spanky

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Losing Barkley was a double edged sword this season. Obviously the loss of his production was huge. But it forced them to develop other parts of the offense, and I think they will benefit significantly from that next season as long as Barkley comes back 100%.
 

NickRU714

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Losing Barkley was a double edged sword this season. Obviously the loss of his production was huge. But it forced them to develop other parts of the offense, and I think they will benefit significantly from that next season as long as Barkley comes back 100%.

Barkley's production wasn't exactly a huge loss.
The rushing offense was just about the same as the last 2 years.
Although not great (or even good) it wasn't like the rushing offense fell off a cliff with Barkley.

Moral of the story: Gettleman better not give Barkley a contract extension this offseason. However, there is zero chance DG doesn't pick up the 5th year option for 2022 (approx $10m).

2020
399att 1,768yards
13TD 20Fmb

2019
362 att for 1,685yards
11TD 31Fmb

2018
352 att for 1,650 yards
13TD 16Fmb

Yards per game:
2020: 110.5 (19)
2019: 105.3 (19)
2018: 103.1 (24)

Yards per attempt:
2020: 4.4 (13)
2019: 4.7 (7)
2018: 4.7 (10)

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2020/index.htm
 
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brad1218

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Julio Jones for a third or 4th? I'd hate to be Atlanta's soon to be ex-GM if that trade is made.
That was a rumor I read on a blog. They are rebuilding and nobody will trade a second rounder for him.
 

Sec127

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Still he was 6th in yds per game and only 24th in targets. Should be productive next year and depending on injuries maybe another season or two. Worth a 3rd or 4th.
 
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czxqa

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Can't cut Zeitler unless they draft a plug and play OL in round 1 . He was the most consistent guy on a pretty bad line. Hernandez lost his starting spot to Shane Lemieux, so clearly they don't have confidence in him. Agree on Tate and Solder, they should both be gone. Also agree with the consensus that EDGE/WR should be rounds 1 and 2, in that order in my opinion. Then I'd like to see them go LB/OL in some order, maybe a TE or RB in 5. Once you get to those later rounds, it's just best guy available, I always believed.
 

NickRU714

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Had to look up these stats for another thread so figured I would throw them in here.
I get that an Edge rusher is a priority but considering Leonard Williams is likely to get a $20m contract and the limited Cap Space the Giants have, they can't waste additional resources on defense.
Offense needs to be the #1 priority of the draft and Free Agency.

2020 Giants Offensive Stats:

Total Yard/Game: 299.6 (#31) - ahead of only the Jets
Passing Yard/Game: 189.1 (#29) - ahead of Patriots, Jets and Ravens
Rushing Y/G: 110.5 (#19)

Points/G: 17.5 (#31) - ahead of only the Jets
Total TD: 27 (#31) - ahead of only the Jets
Pass TD: 12 (t#32) - Other than the Patriots, every team threw more TDs. Even the Jets (16 passing TDs).
RushTD: 13 (#26)

Not going to get into in-depth stats but overall the offense needs to improve.
It's gone backwards since last year.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2020/index.htm
 
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NickRU714

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Interesting comment on Barkley's 2022 5th year option.

Since Gettleman is coming back - 100% it will be picked up.

But if it was up to Judge? How closely is he aligned to a Belichick roster building design?
Zero chance Belichik would pick it up.

"Exercise the option? Yes

I still believe Barkley can produce at an elite level, even coming off the knee injury that cost him almost all of 2020. The big question is, will first-year coach Joe Judge, who wasn't around when Barkley was drafted, feel Barkley is worth the financial commitment? Or will he hew closer to the philosophy of his mentor, Bill Belichick, who is historically loath to pay big bucks to running backs?"

https://www.nfl.com/news/weighing-fifth-year-options-for-2018-nfl-draft-s-first-rounders
 

RUInsanity

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Same hot take here on Defense. Outside of 3 or 4 players, the Giants D has been pretty much a "No-Name" group, relying on sets, flexibility and rotations. That said, assuming Judge has any input into following the the Belichick playbook, they would not choose to pay a huge amount for Williams, instead draft a replacement and bring in a more reasonably priced replacement.

I agree that they should not (and will not be able to afford) pursue and Edge rusher as a Free Agent. Draft however is different IMO. At 11, they should take the best player available - especially if a talented prospect slips.

On Offense I'll assume they are continuing with Engram @ - Giants will likely target OL & WR. If Waddle slips, they would be hard pressed to pass him up - but he still does not satisfy their need for a big / physical target. Beyond Sewell - who will be gone in the first 3-5 picks, they will have to reach to grab an OL - and likely should probably trade down if they are considering this option (Pick #11 is worth a mid tier 1st and 3rd rounder). Likewise, if a player like Parsons slips at LB/Edge - they should grab him at 11 regardless of need.
 

NickRU714

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If the Jets get Watson, I'm going to be pissed.

Giants should absolutely be willing to trade Jones + 2-3 picks.
Watson is only 2 years older and led the league in passing with similar weapons to the Giants.
4,800 yards, 31td, 7int
444 rushing yards, 3td
With our defense, could be an instant SB contender.

And this isn't a "You hate Jones" thing.
Every team should be willing to give up their "promising" QBs who haven't proved it yet.
Watson is what you hope these QBs turn into.

Miami/Tua and Jets/#2 appear to be the leaders.

Jax/#1, Bengals/Burrow and even Ravens/Jackson should at least think about it probably.

Maybe Chargers/Herbert and Arizona/Murray hold off.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WatsDe00.htm
 
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brad1218

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If the Jets get Watson, I'm going to be pissed.

Giants should absolutely be willing to trade Jones + 2-3 picks.
Watson is only 2 years older and led the league in passing with similar weapons to the Giants.
4,800 yards, 31td, 7int
444 rushing yards, 3td
With our defense, could be an instant SB contender.

And this isn't a "You hate Jones" thing.
Every team should be willing to give up their "promising" QBs who haven't proved it yet.
Watson is what you hope these QBs turn into.

Miami/Tua and Jets/#2 appear to be the leaders.

Jax/#1, Bengals/Burrow and even Ravens/Jackson should at least think about it probably.

Maybe Chargers/Herbert and Arizona/Murray hold off.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WatsDe00.htm
I really like Jones, but I am with you. I don’t think Arizona, the Chargers or Bengals would trade. I do think it would come down to Miami or NY and I think our package is potentially better than the Jets. I guess it depends on if the Texans line Fields or the kid from BYU.
 
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