OT: 2023 NY Giants Off Season Thread
- Thread starter Tango Two
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Had some fun playing with the PFF mock draft site . My top priorities are WR, Interior OL and LB.
Upcoming important dates for the Giants
https://www.bigblueinteractive.com/new-york-giants-important-dates/
https://www.bigblueinteractive.com/new-york-giants-important-dates/
Must get WR, interior OL and LB. Too many years with LB who are leagues lowest. Really highlighted the need again last night.
Talk of Bezos wanting to buy Washington
nypost.com
Jeff Bezos may sell Washington Post to buy Commanders, investors say: sources
Does Jeff Bezos love football more than he loves newspapers? That’s a question getting tossed around the nation’s capital as its NFL franchise hits the block.
nypost.com
I think fans are underestimating Jones' next contract.
Sounds like they are going with the "non-exclusive tag" for $31m. Basically restricted FA (Giants have option to match any offer or get compensation of two 1st picks if Jones signs elsewhere).
Note: Franchise Tag is approx $45m
$31m is going to be the minimum per year for any extension.
I would guess he's looking for closer to $40m/year overall.
He's going to sign for less than Goff, Wentz or Cousins? (approx $35)
Recent QB contracts:
Deshaun Watson $46m
Dak Prescott $40m
Kyler Murray $46m
https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback
Sounds like they are going with the "non-exclusive tag" for $31m. Basically restricted FA (Giants have option to match any offer or get compensation of two 1st picks if Jones signs elsewhere).
Note: Franchise Tag is approx $45m
$31m is going to be the minimum per year for any extension.
I would guess he's looking for closer to $40m/year overall.
He's going to sign for less than Goff, Wentz or Cousins? (approx $35)
Recent QB contracts:
Deshaun Watson $46m
Dak Prescott $40m
Kyler Murray $46m
https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback
If you think Jones is a Top 10 QB, then he needs to get paid like it.
$31m (Franchise tag) is the floor - not the contract average.
QBs are expensive.
I used one of the mock draft simulations and had some fun. One minor 3rd day trade but I tried not to go nuts. For 3rd day picks I went, with 1 exception, with the highest rated at any position of need.
Results
25. Michael Mayer TE Notre Dame
57. Jalin Hyatt WR Tennessee
89. Owen Pappoe LB Auburn
102. DeMavian Overshown LB Texas
128. Joe Timmerman OC Wisconsin
159. Nick Broeker OG Ole Miss.
162. Ronnie Bell WR Michigan
208. Christian Izien S Rutgers
242. Gabe Wallace OG Buffalo
245. Viliam Fehoke Edge San Diego St.
254. Josh Whyle TE Cincinnati
Opinions?
Results
25. Michael Mayer TE Notre Dame
57. Jalin Hyatt WR Tennessee
89. Owen Pappoe LB Auburn
102. DeMavian Overshown LB Texas
128. Joe Timmerman OC Wisconsin
159. Nick Broeker OG Ole Miss.
162. Ronnie Bell WR Michigan
208. Christian Izien S Rutgers
242. Gabe Wallace OG Buffalo
245. Viliam Fehoke Edge San Diego St.
254. Josh Whyle TE Cincinnati
Opinions?
Daboll Coach of the Year
"
Daboll took a team that had lost at least 10 games each of the previous five seasons and got them to the playoffs in his first year as head coach. He did it with a roster that was flawed and not overly talented. That is really what earned Daboll this honor.
The Giants won nine games despite having their preseason top four receivers either on injured reserve, stuck on the bench or not on the roster by the end of the season. Daboll set the tone right from the start, uniting this group and earning their trust when he went for the 2-point conversion and win against the Tennessee Titans in the final minutes of Week 1."
www.espn.com
"
Daboll took a team that had lost at least 10 games each of the previous five seasons and got them to the playoffs in his first year as head coach. He did it with a roster that was flawed and not overly talented. That is really what earned Daboll this honor.
The Giants won nine games despite having their preseason top four receivers either on injured reserve, stuck on the bench or not on the roster by the end of the season. Daboll set the tone right from the start, uniting this group and earning their trust when he went for the 2-point conversion and win against the Tennessee Titans in the final minutes of Week 1."
2023 NFL Honors: Who won the league's biggest awards?
Kansas City Chiefs QB Patrick Mahomes won his second MVP. Here's a look at Thursday's winners.
Hard not to be impressed with what he did in his first year here.Daboll Coach of the Year
"
Daboll took a team that had lost at least 10 games each of the previous five seasons and got them to the playoffs in his first year as head coach. He did it with a roster that was flawed and not overly talented. That is really what earned Daboll this honor.
The Giants won nine games despite having their preseason top four receivers either on injured reserve, stuck on the bench or not on the roster by the end of the season. Daboll set the tone right from the start, uniting this group and earning their trust when he went for the 2-point conversion and win against the Tennessee Titans in the final minutes of Week 1."
2023 NFL Honors: Who won the league's biggest awards?
Kansas City Chiefs QB Patrick Mahomes won his second MVP. Here's a look at Thursday's winners.
True.
The coaches he brought in were a big help too
Thankfully Wink isn't in the running for Colt job anymore
Kafka is still in running for AZ job but some say he should stay away and avoid Kyler - better to start somewhere with his own QB,
Coach Reid and Mahomes have been endorsing Kafka to AZ.
The thing I like about Daboll is that he exists near interface where animal spirits and calm insight meet.
He gets really psyched-up but he's not a ding-dong
When I watched him the fist weeks I could tell he knew what he as doing and had 100% confidence in his abilities - something that was missing with Judge, Schurmer and McAdoo.
Daboll likes people too - he even likes media (Schurmer hated media)
"Players don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care. Taking time and investing in people helps down the road when adversity strikes." BD
Jones gets new reps
Daniel Jones changes agent ahead of impending free agency
Daniel Jones making moves amid negotiations with the Giants
clutchpoints.com
Jones gets new reps
Daniel Jones changes agent ahead of impending free agency
Daniel Jones making moves amid negotiations with the Giantsclutchpoints.com
Lot of wasted verbiage. Could have just said "Jones changes agent and we don't know why"
More info in a NYP article.
Athletes First does a lot of QBs while CAA is out in LA doing actors etc
DJ felt CAA wasn't bringing its A game for him and he's probably right.
"Athletes First previously negotiated the largest deal in NFL history (at the time) five times, including for quarterbacks Aaron Rodgers and Dak Prescott. The agency also represents highly paid quarterbacks Deshaun Watson and Matt Ryan, as well as Sterling Shepard. Jones and Shepard became close friends as Giants teammates.
The Post’s Ryan Dunleavy reports that negotiations between the Giants and Jones had gotten off to a much bumpier start than expected. "
Giants’ Daniel Jones switching agents as contract negotiations loom
Daniel Jones already seems to be in the midst of change.
nypost.com
Here is how I would approach the Giants offseason:
-Sign Jones to a 4-5 year deal, which I still think is possible. Probably looking at $30-35 million per season.
-Franchise Barkley for now and continue to work on long term deal either this year or next.
-Extend Lawrence, arguably the best player on the team for another 4-5 years.
-Try to sign Julian Love if possible, but see what the market dictates.
-Draft a WR in the 1st round and/or see if you can get a guy like Deandre Hopkins on the cheap
-Try to use higher draft picks on CB, LB, and interior O-line
-Plan for the following year when hopefully more of the Gettleman bad contracts come off the books.
-Sign Jones to a 4-5 year deal, which I still think is possible. Probably looking at $30-35 million per season.
-Franchise Barkley for now and continue to work on long term deal either this year or next.
-Extend Lawrence, arguably the best player on the team for another 4-5 years.
-Try to sign Julian Love if possible, but see what the market dictates.
-Draft a WR in the 1st round and/or see if you can get a guy like Deandre Hopkins on the cheap
-Try to use higher draft picks on CB, LB, and interior O-line
-Plan for the following year when hopefully more of the Gettleman bad contracts come off the books.
It takes 2 to sign a contract.
I would guess that no way Jones signs for only 30-35m/year.
Everyone keeps saying he's so good but constantly wants to under pay him compared to other QBs.
Yes it's an outlier a bit but Kyler Murray is making $45m. Don't see a playoff win on his resume.
Why would Jones sign long term for $35m?
He's going to make Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, Kirk Counsins (who he just beat in the playoffs) money?
The changing agent is a bad sign for these estimates of underpaying Jones.
Best realistic case is Jones plays on the Franchise Tag.
The cap hit will be a lot of he's only had one year of productivity and clean health. Signing a long term high value contract might not be the best move yet.
I would guess that no way Jones signs for only 30-35m/year.
Everyone keeps saying he's so good but constantly wants to under pay him compared to other QBs.
Yes it's an outlier a bit but Kyler Murray is making $45m. Don't see a playoff win on his resume.
Why would Jones sign long term for $35m?
He's going to make Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, Kirk Counsins (who he just beat in the playoffs) money?
The changing agent is a bad sign for these estimates of underpaying Jones.
Best realistic case is Jones plays on the Franchise Tag.
The cap hit will be a lot of he's only had one year of productivity and clean health. Signing a long term high value contract might not be the best move yet.
Because giants could still franchise him . And then he’s in another prove it year .
Giants have around 47 million cap space next year.
Franchising Jones would put all of his salary to the 2033 cap and bugger Giants cap (says Tiki)
Jones and Saquon are looking for big paydays but so will Dexter Lawrence and soon Andrew Thomas. Giants have 21 FAs to sort. Somebody will be gone imo
Franchising Jones would put all of his salary to the 2033 cap and bugger Giants cap (says Tiki)
Jones and Saquon are looking for big paydays but so will Dexter Lawrence and soon Andrew Thomas. Giants have 21 FAs to sort. Somebody will be gone imo
Chiefs' Travis Kelce Praised Giants Tight End Daniel Bellinger
Giants tight end Daniel Bellinger caught the eye of Chiefs tight end Travis Kelce this season.Leonard Williams may have to go because of the dopey Gettleman deal that has Williams earning $32 million next year.
If I’m the Giants, I just can’t sign Jones for over 30-32 per year and much less than that guaranteed. I loved him this year and he really had no targets but man- what did he throw, 15 TD?
He does fit this team and I love his attitude but you can’t franchise him and improve and you can’t pay him near 40 mil when you were ready to cut him.,,
He does fit this team and I love his attitude but you can’t franchise him and improve and you can’t pay him near 40 mil when you were ready to cut him.,,
I like Williams and he's been a good player but he' skewing the payroll. Imagine what Lawrence wants looking at the Williams deal.
Here's a NYG cap/salary list
New York Giants Salary Cap | Over the Cap
New York Giants salary cap, contracts, bonus money, dead money, and cap savings for every player
overthecap.com
100% sure that they will...unless the new agents really do want 40+ and most guaranteed
Williams had a good year, not a great one, and certainly not one that entitles him to $32 million, or even $25 million, or maybe even $21 million. I don't think the Giants are going to be able to restructure it in a way that works going foward. And Williams won't give up a penny of that $32 million unless it comes back to him in the future in a way that's attractive to him. In other words, I think he's gone.
His cap hit is $32m but his guarantee is $20m. Giants could cut him and add an extra $12m of cap space (they would still be on the hook for $20m in guarantee/cap). They could as an example offer him another $16m and extend him for 3 years. They would then be able to spread the $36m guaranteed (20 + 16) and split it over the term to reduce his cap hit to $12m per season while retaining his services.
Why would he do this? Because he likely is not worth a huge salary on the open market anymore.
Thanks for this. I wonder, though, whether even the extra $16mm over the next 3 years on top of his guaranteed $20ish mm would be enough. I recall that his agent was a "don't budge" guy, which allowed him to bulldoze Gettlemen while Gettlemen was vulnerable.
It's a good point. Based on interior lineman salaries he's probably worth about $10m+ average per season on open market. I imagine he could get up to $20m guaranteed and something like $36m overall in a back-loaded 3 year deal. This would mean the Giants would have to up the ante another $4m guaranteed to be at that level. I guess we'll see how good Schoen is as a GM at the negotiating table.
Yes, true.
Sometimes, though, a GM can't really play his hand well because the other guy can see your cards. That happened to Schoen last year when, despite holding on forever and doubtlessly trying lots of different ways out, he ultimately had to simply release James Bradberry.
Sometimes, though, a GM can't really play his hand well because the other guy can see your cards. That happened to Schoen last year when, despite holding on forever and doubtlessly trying lots of different ways out, he ultimately had to simply release James Bradberry.
What better option is out there? Maybe Carr. The others (jimmy G, tanneyhill, Bridgwater) are not.
This goes to my prior point.
You (not you but the general you) can't say Daniel Jones is the best option available and then try to sign him for less money than all the other options.
If he's the best option then need to expect to pay him more than all the other options.
Likely close to $40m/year with significant guarantees.
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