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OT: Cold and Potentially Stormy (Snowy?) Pattern for 2nd half of January

RU848789

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Jul 27, 2001
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Haven't done a pattern thread in awhile, but things are aligning pretty well from a teleconnections perspective to establish a colder and possibly stormier than normal pattern for the 2nd half of January and whenever that kind of pattern forms, there is a greater probability of above average snowfall. Have done a bunch of these threads over the years and more often than not they have delivered on increased snowfall for our area (but definitely not every time). As always, I'm not a meteorologist, but when quite a few mets are predicting such a pattern, it's worth paying attention to.

With regard to what the thinking is behind this, there are links to a post by an excellent young met on AmericanWx (brooklynwx99) and a video by WxRisk (DT), below. Essentially, the medium range models are showing a robust ridge forming in the PacNW, coupled with an Aleution upper level low, forcing the polar jet stream up and over that ridge and then spilling SE as a trough drawing cold air from Canada (via Siberia) into the eastern half of the US and then sometimes heading NE driving potential storms towards our area. In the GIF below, from brooklynwx99, you can see the persistent ridge at 500 mbar (mid-level of the atmosphere) near Alaska (in orange) and the persistent resulting trough in the eastern US (in blue).

From a global perspective, the MJO (Madden-Julian Oscillation), a measure of equatorial convection from the Indian Ocean through the Pacific, is what is fueling this jet stream combination above, as the MJO enters phases 8 and then 1. In turn, the "teleconnections" that are favorable for cold/snow in the eastern US are a -NAO, a -AO, a -EPO and a +PNA, all of which are predicted to occur starting by mid-January and lasting through the end of the month (at least). The video, in particular, describes the MJO and the teleconnections in much better detail with excellent graphics, so I won't bother to try to provide more detail here, as I can't do it better than WxRisk did anyway.

In addition, there will likely be a "split flow" with the subropical jet stream being active in sending moisture from the Pacific across the southern US, leading to potential "phasing" of the two jet streams, which is often a key ingredient in major east coast snowstorms - the AmericanWx post describes this in very nice detail with graphics.

The first chance for a signficant storm is about a week from now, with the various global models all showing a winter storm of some sort next Sunday, but differing greatly in the details, such that anything from nada to a significant winter storm is possible. And there are additional signals after that for significant winter storms. Way, way, way too early to predict anything specific for any location, but this is the kind of pattern that needs to be watched closely. So, let's see what happens.

I know some will say, big deal, it usually snows in January, which is true, but this is about potentially getting more snow than usual and a greater probability of a significant snowstorm or two. All through December the pattern was warm and hostile for cold/snow in the eastern US, as we had a persistent ridge in the SE US pumping warm air into our area, so we got no snow at all. This pattern starting changing in early January a bit, but was still not particularly favorable for cold and/or snow and we got nothing until Friday for most of us, while the big storm for VA/DE/MD and SENJ on Monday just shows that it's always possible to get snow in a bad to neutral pattern in winter.

https://www.33andrain.com/topic/204...n-winter-21-22/?do=findComment&comment=299689



gfs-ensemble-all-avg-nhemi-z500_anom-1641686400-1642204800-1643068800-10-1.gif.8a35bafb6a66596ed073307034106d14.gif
 
Haven't done a pattern thread in awhile, but things are aligning pretty well from a teleconnections perspective to establish a colder and possibly stormier than normal pattern for the 2nd half of January and whenever that kind of pattern forms, there is a greater probability of above average snowfall. Have done a bunch of these threads over the years and more often than not they have delivered on increased snowfall for our area (but definitely not every time). As always, I'm not a meteorologist, but when quite a few mets are predicting such a pattern, it's worth paying attention to.

With regard to what the thinking is behind this, there are links to a post by an excellent young met on AmericanWx (brooklynwx99) and a video by WxRisk (DT), below. Essentially, the medium range models are showing a robust ridge forming in the PacNW, coupled with an Aleution upper level low, forcing the polar jet stream up and over that ridge and then spilling SE as a trough drawing cold air from Canada (via Siberia) into the eastern half of the US and then sometimes heading NE driving potential storms towards our area. In the GIF below, from brooklynwx99, you can see the persistent ridge at 500 mbar (mid-level of the atmosphere) near Alaska (in orange) and the persistent resulting trough in the eastern US (in blue).

From a global perspective, the MJO (Madden-Julian Oscillation), a measure of equatorial convection from the Indian Ocean through the Pacific, is what is fueling this jet stream combination above, as the MJO enters phases 8 and then 1. In turn, the "teleconnections" that are favorable for cold/snow in the eastern US are a -NAO, a -AO, a -EPO and a +PNA, all of which are predicted to occur starting by mid-January and lasting through the end of the month (at least). The video, in particular, describes the MJO and the teleconnections in much better detail with excellent graphics, so I won't bother to try to provide more detail here, as I can't do it better than WxRisk did anyway.

In addition, there will likely be a "split flow" with the subropical jet stream being active in sending moisture from the Pacific across the southern US, leading to potential "phasing" of the two jet streams, which is often a key ingredient in major east coast snowstorms - the AmericanWx post describes this in very nice detail with graphics.

The first chance for a signficant storm is about a week from now, with the various global models all showing a winter storm of some sort next Sunday, but differing greatly in the details, such that anything from nada to a significant winter storm is possible. And there are additional signals after that for significant winter storms. Way, way, way too early to predict anything specific for any location, but this is the kind of pattern that needs to be watched closely. So, let's see what happens.

I know some will say, big deal, it usually snows in January, which is true, but this is about potentially getting more snow than usual and a greater probability of a significant snowstorm or two. All through December the pattern was warm and hostile for cold/snow in the eastern US, as we had a persistent ridge in the SE US pumping warm air into our area, so we got no snow at all. This pattern starting changing in early January a bit, but was still not particularly favorable for cold and/or snow and we got nothing until Friday for most of us, while the big storm for VA/DE/MD and SENJ on Monday just shows that it's always possible to get snow in a bad to neutral pattern in winter.

https://www.33andrain.com/topic/204...n-winter-21-22/?do=findComment&comment=299689

I know some will say, big deal, it usually snows in January, which is true, but this is about potentially getting more snow than usual and a greater probability of a significant snowstorm or two.

Ok, let’s get some accountability in this thread.
  • How much does it usually snow during the last half of January? A snowy pattern needs to be how far above that?
  • How many inches does a snowstorm need to be considered significant? If there’s a greater probability of them hitting, what baseline are we using?

I’m assuming a small amount above the average run-of-the-mill January (like 3”) would not meet the definition of a snowy pattern? Similar question on the “greater probability of a significant snowstorm.” Let me know if I’m wrong.

For the Numbers critics… put up or shut up. Post your guesses and we’ll check back February 1st to see who won this friendly.
 
Thanks for the interesting info #s

btw the “weather trolls” are BY FAR the most annoying thing on this message board.

T2k essentially trolls ALL topics and doesn't really seem to know a damn thing about any of them. His bit is almost as played as the old "phantom thread rater" bit from a certain alleged board moderator.

As for this thread, it's got real value. The message, here, is that global conditions are setting up for a late January that will be colder / snowier than normal in NJ. If people genuinely can't intuit what "colder than normal" and "snowier than normal" might look like, then they probably need to just go on the welfare and stay in bed.
 
T2k essentially trolls ALL topics and doesn't really seem to know a damn thing about any of them. His bit is almost as played as the old "phantom thread rater" bit from a certain alleged board moderator.

As for this thread, it's got real value. The message, here, is that global conditions are setting up for a late January that will be colder / snowier than normal in NJ. If people genuinely can't intuit what "colder than normal" and "snowier than normal" might look like, then they probably need to just go on the welfare and stay in bed.
I don’t get too deep into this stuff - eg can’t say I read the whole of #s post ;)

I come here for the graphs and the maps and #s didn’t disappoint😀

look at the eastern US vs Alaska (stays red through that whole period).

it’s interesting

obviously this isn’t predicting particular storms on particular days

but it is very interesting (and good to know) what the future weather may be

thanks again #s
 
I believe there was a "cold spell" thread a few tears ago. It kept on being "pushed back" from January till March. Hmmmmmm....where I have seen this before? Ima gonna have to dig that up.
 
Ok, let’s get some accountability in this thread.
  • How much does it usually snow during the last half of January? A snowy pattern needs to be how far above that?
  • How many inches does a snowstorm need to be considered significant? If there’s a greater probability of them hitting, what baseline are we using?

I’m assuming a small amount above the average run-of-the-mill January (like 3”) would not meet the definition of a snowy pattern? Similar question on the “greater probability of a significant snowstorm.” Let me know if I’m wrong.

For the Numbers critics… put up or shut up. Post your guesses and we’ll check back February 1st to see who won this friendly.
FYI....#'s doesn't do guess. He already stated that.
 
I’ll allow this to continue, @RU848789 as long as you continue to do the individual event, individual thread thing too.😉

This kind of thread really is just for you while the latter IMO is much more important to the community as a whole.
 
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Jesus Christ, a bunch of full blown jerks in this thread. Go to any weather forum and what #'s posted is appreciated information and par for the course on that given board. I appreciate the information #'s posts and hope he continues without the bulls#**t trolling in this thread. Bac, love your recaps after each of the basketball games. They are truly great. But your over the top attempts to undercut #'s at every turn is tiresome. #'s, keep doing what you do...........i'm a fan.
 
Jesus Christ, a bunch of full blown jerks in this thread. Go to any weather forum and what #'s posted is appreciated information and par for the course on that given board. I appreciate the information #'s posts and hope he continues without the bulls#**t trolling in this thread. Bac, love your recaps after each of the basketball games. They are truly great. But your over the top attempts to undercut #'s at every turn is tiresome. #'s, keep doing what you do...........i'm a fan.
The reports for the individual events are very important and much appreciated.

Especially for those of us who work outside and have to deal with the weather on a daily basis.

But trend stuff? Not so much.
 
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Awww, it's so cute seeing you guys trolling together - were you spooning when you wrote your posts?
Do you suppose they argue over who gets to be the inner spoon? T is like 8 feet tall, so probably he has to be the outer spoon. But Bac has those giant biceps with which to wrap up T and make him feel all warm and cozy. Tough choice for them. 🙂
 
Maybe I'll start a daily weather observation thread. That's appreciated and par for the course on any other meteorology board.

What's that? This isn't a meteorology board? Huh.
If this forum were restricted to nothing but purely on-topic threads, it would dry up and die during the off-season. The wonderful thing about internet forums and personal freedom is that one can skip past any threads one wishes.
 
Do you suppose they argue over who gets to be the inner spoon? T is like 8 feet tall, so probably he has to be the outer spoon. But Bac has those giant biceps with which to wrap up T and make him feel all warm and cozy. Tough choice for them. 🙂
Dude, why did you create that image? I think I just went blind.
 
The reports for the individual events are very important and much appreciated.

Especially for those of us who work outside and have to deal with the weather on a daily basis.

But trend stuff? Not so much.
Should we peruse all the current threads and see where they stand against a weather trend thread?
 
I know you're not new here. T2K's sole purpose on this board has apparently evolved into constantly trolling #'s weather threads.
It's important for everyone to form achievable goals. Guess he finally found one. 🙂
 
If this forum were restricted to nothing but purely on-topic threads, it would dry up and die during the off-season. The wonderful thing about internet forums and personal freedom is that one can skip past any threads one wishes.
I agree. Heck, I had to allow ignored posters just to read yours. Part of keeping the traffic on the site during the off-season is trolling the weather threads, and striking back at the weather trolls, bemoaning those same trolls, instead of just skipping over them or ignoring them.
 
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The reports for the individual events are very important and much appreciated.

Especially for those of us who work outside and have to deal with the weather on a daily basis.

But trend stuff? Not so much.
To each his own I guess. Trend stuff to me is quite interesting. Now, that is coming from someone very interested in the weather, and I suppose would be less interesting to those not interested, but I just don't see the harm in posting the information especially since #'s labeled it as an off topic thread.

It's clear that certain people want to eviscerate #'s every chance they get but I would appreciate they keep that animosity to themselves. I mean, Bac, who pummels #'s continually, opens threads throughout the year related to favorite Thanksgiving food, favorite Christmas song etc.....................of which I like those threads...................So, is an informative weather thread about how teleconnections and their current stages have a potentially significant impact on winter weather in the next few weeks really worse? I mean, #'s is posting scientific information about the weather and Bac is asking "what do you like better at Thanksgiving, stuffing or mashed potatoes?" I mean, is he serious? He has the balls to rip #'s about what I view as a relevant weather thread but starts those threads? Actually as I type this i'm realizing how hypocritical it sounds. And again Bac..............I like your threads.
 
NBC10 Philadelphia has mid 30s to mid 40s (except for tomorrow) and only a chance of snow showers in it's 10 day forecast.
 
To each his own I guess. Trend stuff to me is quite interesting. Now, that is coming from someone very interested in the weather, and I suppose would be less interesting to those not interested, but I just don't see the harm in posting the information especially since #'s labeled it as an off topic thread.

It's clear that certain people want to eviscerate #'s every chance they get but I would appreciate they keep that animosity to themselves. I mean, Bac, who pummels #'s continually, opens threads throughout the year related to favorite Thanksgiving food, favorite Christmas song etc.....................of which I like those threads...................So, is an informative weather thread about how teleconnections and their current stages have a potentially significant impact on winter weather in the next few weeks really worse? I mean, #'s is posting scientific information about the weather and Bac is asking "what do you like better at Thanksgiving, stuffing or mashed potatoes?" I mean, is he serious? He has the balls to rip #'s about what I view as a relevant weather thread but starts those threads? Actually as I type this i'm realizing how hypocritical it sounds. And again Bac..............I like your threads.
And that’s the point.😉
 
Should we peruse all the current threads and see where they stand against a weather trend thread?
Go right ahead.😉

But I could save you lots of time with that…

The trend in the winter is that it is colder than other parts of the year in this area. Sometimes it snows, sometimes it doesn’t.

The trend in the summer around here is that it is hotter than the other parts of the year. Sometimes there are thunderstorms, sometimes they’re aren’t.
 
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Jesus Christ, a bunch of full blown jerks in this thread. Go to any weather forum and what #'s posted is appreciated information and par for the course on that given board. I appreciate the information #'s posts and hope he continues without the bulls#**t trolling in this thread. Bac, love your recaps after each of the basketball games. They are truly great. But your over the top attempts to undercut #'s at every turn is tiresome. #'s, keep doing what you do...........i'm a fan.

Well yeah, but this isn't a Weather Forum.
 
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Go right ahead.😉

But I could save you lots of time with that…

The trend in the winter is that it is colder than other parts of the year in this area. Sometimes it snows, sometimes it doesn’t.

The trend in the summer around here is that it is hotter than the other parts of the year. Sometimes there are thunderstorms, sometimes they’re aren’t.

And you did it in 9000 less words.
 
Groundhog Day should be interesting this year. Q-unxatawny Phil will likely predict another year of ‘45’ plus the emergence of the Faucicron variant of COVID which Fauci personally cooked up in the basement of a Washington DC pizza shop…
 
This thread
Go right ahead.😉

But I could save you lots of time with that…

The trend in the winter is that it is colder than other parts of the year in this area. Sometimes it snows, sometimes it doesn’t.

The trend in the summer around here is that it is hotter than the other parts of the year. Sometimes there are thunderstorms, sometimes they’re aren’t.
I don't care about DeLucia's brick oven, although pizza sounds good right about now. An increased chance of snow makes me think about getting out of NJ and look for cheap flight to Florida. My snowblower is in the basement and I have/had a false sense that it won't snow.

Bottom line I clicked on it because it interested me and is relevant to my life.
 
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