OT: Daily COVID Thread - 9/15

[RobertG]

Anecdotes << epidemiological studies. I've posted a couple in the past which showed little to no increase from protests - not zero new cases, but the overall impacts were negligible, likely because of some masking and outdoor events combined with overall distancing of the population increasing during the protests.

The thread and arguments I responded and posted about were not anecdotes vs studies. But about actions of these people. You posted about the Maine wedding, Kightmoves replied that the pastor should be jailed, Knight Shift asked if the protesters should be jailed also, you said they are not the same thing. But there were protesters who did not wear masks and there were protesters who did not socially distances. Also, at least in NJ and NY the protesters as a whole ignored government orders of gathering size. In these instances the virus was spread to police men and others. So I think the Maine preacher and the protesters who broke the rules are both culpable.

 

[Yeah Baby]

Otherwise known as, “My parents failed me Tuesday”

Most masks don’t work. It’s been published but maskn haming continues by the vocals

 

[fsg2]

Most masks don’t work. It’s been published but masknshaming continues by those who have no spine -!: big mouths.

Thanks for that really strong evidence. You + bac = 0 for 0.

 

[DJ Spanky]

Paging @DJ Spanky - think I asked this before but don't recall seeing an answer. Any idea why the reply feature appears to quote a different post, looking at the preview, even though the quoted post is actually correct?

I've never noticed that before; the only thing I've run into his hitting the quote button above the message I want, which actually quotes the message above the one you want.

 

[Knight Shift]

The RCT sarcasm is wearing thin. They're better than observational studies on average and much better when run well - nobody, not even Doidge (who has run zero clinical trials) disagrees with that - they're nowhere near infallible though, especially if poorly designed, as any expert would agree.

Also, your post betrays your lack of understanding of basic science (I know, you're a patent lawyer - not the same, sorry). There are no randomized controlled trials we could even run for masks and transmission prevention of COVID, since it's universally agreed that exposing volunteers to a deadly virus on purpose is highly unethical. And unfortunately, only such trials would provide very close to incontrovertible "proof" in mask efficacy.

Until then we have to rely on inferential evidence from mask wearing vs. non-mask wearing comparisons and RCTs in animals, both of which strongly support the efficacy of masks in reducing (not eliminating) spread of COVID, as per the posts below (and I could post several more if you like). In addition, there's a vast amount of epidemiological evidence supporting masks for reducing transmissions at location, area, and country-wide levels.

COVID-19 Pandemic: Transmissions, Deaths, Treatments, Vaccines, Interventions and More...

I read it wrong?? “All of the vaccinated monkeys treated with the Oxford vaccine became infected when challenged.” What does that mean to you? More on the Oxford Testing. Still has promise. Asked whether results in macaques will likely translate to results in humans, he added: “No we don’t...

rutgers.forums.rivals.com

COVID-19 Pandemic: Transmissions, Deaths, Treatments, Vaccines, Interventions and More...

Yea because people aren't thinking about the "herd protection" of masks just their own protection. But even in that sense, something is better than nothing is my view. Whatever the percent protection for yourself...it can reduce the viral load that infects you and maybe you can fight that off...

rutgers.forums.rivals.com

Methinks you are taking the RCTs too personally. The Mask RCTs was a joke.

 

[fsg2]

Methinks you are taking the RCTs too personally. The Mask RCTs was a joke.

Or ...spitballing here ...your breed of joke is much more obnoxious than funny?

 

[WhiteBus]

Your IQ is showing

Here’s another study showing the benefits of masks. You do believe in science, right?

Slight reduction in SARS-CoV-2 exposure viral load due to masking results in a significant reduction in transmission with widespread implementation

Masks are a vital tool for limiting SARS-CoV-2 spread in the population. Here we utilize a mathematical model to assess the impact of masking on transmission within individual transmission pairs and at the population level. Our model quantitatively links mask efficacy to reductions in viral load...

www.medrxiv.org

For everyone else, please don’t pay attention to his posts. His schtick is posting racist, trolling posts.

You seemed to miss the bold part at the top in blue letters so it would stand out.

This article is a preprint and has not been certified by peer review [what does this mean?]. It reports new medical research that has yet to be evaluated and so should not be used to guide clinical practice.

 

[T2Kplus10]

Given your Blutarsky-esque prediction accuracy of 0.0%, forgive me if I chuckle just a little. If Merck has a single shot, more effective vaccine in April, there will still be billions of people who need vaccines and many of them would likely want a better one. But keep prattling on - it's what you do.

It won't be more effective. Sanofi will likely win that race.

 

[ArminRU]

You seemed to miss the bold part at the top in blue letters so it would stand out.

This article is a preprint and has not been certified by peer review [what does this mean?]. It reports new medical research that has yet to be evaluated and so should not be used to guide clinical practice.

This is the site studies are uploaded to as they wait to be peer reviewed. I’ll make sure to repost this study once it’s published in one of the journals.

 

[scarletrider]

This is something I have suspected from the onset. Given the veracity of the disease, where it seems to have originated from and the circumstantial evidence I have seen, it pointed to the Wuhan lab. This paper, if true helps to prove what I suspected. I will read it in further detail later but a couple of the highlights in simpler terms. 1) This virus has the possibility of being produced in a lab within 6 months, where as I have seen the evolution of the virus jumping from infected animal to humans is estimated at 50 years. 2) The authors state SARS-COV2 is similar to a bat virus discovered by the Chinese military between 2015 and 2017. SARS-COV2 is 97% identical to one of those viruses. 3) The receptor binding motif of SARS-COV2 is similar to SARS-COV from the 2002 outbreak. 4) There are certain components of SARS-COV2 which have never been found within a coronavirus in nature, ever. These components increase the ability of the virus to infect someone.
***Someone with a better background in this discipline, feel free to take over from here.

I think the big story behind this several months ago was that the main author claiming that she had proof that this virus was created in the chinese lab. The big question is, does this paper sufficiently provide that proof she claimed?

 

[RU848789]

This is something I have suspected from the onset. Given the veracity of the disease, where it seems to have originated from and the circumstantial evidence I have seen, it pointed to the Wuhan lab. This paper, if true helps to prove what I suspected. I will read it in further detail later but a couple of the highlights in simpler terms. 1) This virus has the possibility of being produced in a lab within 6 months, where as I have seen the evolution of the virus jumping from infected animal to humans is estimated at 50 years. 2) The authors state SARS-COV2 is similar to a bat virus discovered by the Chinese military between 2015 and 2017. SARS-COV2 is 97% identical to one of those viruses. 3) The receptor binding motif of SARS-COV2 is similar to SARS-COV from the 2002 outbreak. 4) There are certain components of SARS-COV2 which have never been found within a coronavirus in nature, ever. These components increase the ability of the virus to infect someone.
***Someone with a better background in this discipline, feel free to take over from here.

I've posted quite a few links to scholarly articles that disagree completely with the "made in the lab" conspiracy theories, so I'm not inclined to repeat all that unless requested, but with regard to this "paper," did you know it was funded by the "Rule of Law Society," which is a political non-profit group dedicated to "investigating Chinese corruption" and is led by Steve Bannon and underwritten by fugitive Chinese billionaire Guo Wengui?

I have no love for the Chinese government, but Bannon has already been indicted for fraud in his role in raising money for the build the wall charity - remember that yacht they joked about buying with stolen funds from contributors? That was owned by Guo Wengui and the author of this non peer-reviewed "paper" also happens to be a regular on Bannon's nutty 4-hour daily YouTube-show "War Room Pandemic."

To think that this "paper" isn't a political hit-job is to have one's head in the sand - the first link, below, discusses how Yan has been promising "damning evidence" of a lab made virus for months and none was provided at all in this "paper" (just recycled claims that have been circulating for months). If people want to buy into this theory, someone at least needs to provide a good source with some actual convincing science behind it.

Whistleblower makes shocking claim that coronavirus was created in a Chinese lab

A coronavirus whistleblower who fled Hong Kong in April to escape persecution from the Chinese government said in recent interviews that she has evidence China …

bgr.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/steve-bannon-guo-wengui/2020/09/13/8b43cd06-e964-11ea-bc79-834454439a44_story.html

 

[bac2therac]

the POST has zero credibility

 

[RU848789]

Methinks you are taking the RCTs too personally. The Mask RCTs was a joke.

You weren't joking the 3-4 other times you've brought up that you don't think RCTs are the gold standard in clinical science, mostly related to HCQ, so why would you think that I'd interpret this was a joke?

 

[Shell21]

 

[fsg2]

the POST has zero credibility

So considerably more than you, then.

 

[RU848789]

The thread and arguments I responded and posted about were not anecdotes vs studies. But about actions of these people. You posted about the Maine wedding, Kightmoves replied that the pastor should be jailed, Knight Shift asked if the protesters should be jailed also, you said they are not the same thing. But there were protesters who did not wear masks and there were protesters who did not socially distances. Also, at least in NJ and NY the protesters as a whole ignored government orders of gathering size. In these instances the virus was spread to police men and others. So I think the Maine preacher and the protesters who broke the rules are both culpable.

Sorry, didn't get that from your post at first - I thought you were jumping in with the masks-don't-work crowd. I mostly agree with what you said above and have said that several times. All protesters should have been wearing masks/distancing and I was critical of some not doing so from the beginning. My points were that at least this did not lead to any significant case increases, overall, but certainly there were some cases created and that was bad.

I do think there's still a significant difference between the protests, where mask-wearing and distancing were at least strongly encouraged (even if not followed by all), vs. the Maine wedding/reception where masks/distancing were discouraged - and it's even worse that that was done for an indoor event.

 

[RU848789]

View embedded media

Was just about to post this. Huge story, at least in the world of science as it pertains to politics. While they're endorsing Biden for POTUS, this is really a vote against and an indictment of Donald Trump. I'm RU848789 and I approve this message, lol.

Scientific American Makes First Presidential Endorsement In Its 175-Year History

“The evidence and the science show that Donald Trump has badly damaged the U.S. and its people—because he rejects evidence and science.”

www.forbes.com

 

[Knight Shift]

You weren't joking the 3-4 other times you've brought up that you don't think RCTs are the gold standard in clinical science, mostly related to HCQ, so why would you think that I'd interpret this was a joke?

Because biased scientists who hate orange men can still fudge results or set up the experiments to prove something does not work. I thought we covered this. Maybe I should have been explicit and said "fudged" RCTs. I will try to restrain myself in the future. It's not just covid-19 and HCQ. I think what Big Pharma has done with data and statins is a borderline criminal conspiracy.

 

[anon_ivydyf0amkzay]

What will happen this late fall and winter when people get the common cold of flu? Is everything gonna be called Covid because $$ are tied to Covid and not the cold or flu?

I can see people freakin the eff out and frothy indignation and signaling as a result.

 

[anon_ivydyf0amkzay]

Let’s see...oct 17...17 or so days away from the general election.

WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG WITH THIS SCENARIO!🤣😬🤦🏻

 

[Shell21]

Was just about to post this. Huge story, at least in the world of science as it pertains to politics. While they're endorsing Biden for POTUS, this is really a vote against and an indictment of Donald Trump. I'm RU848789 and I approve this message, lol.

Scientific American Makes First Presidential Endorsement In Its 175-Year History

“The evidence and the science show that Donald Trump has badly damaged the U.S. and its people—because he rejects evidence and science.”

www.forbes.com

Trump loses to Science again . Science is undefeated and wiping the floor with Donny.

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

Most masks don’t work. It’s been published but masknshaming continues by those who have no spine -!: big mouths.

Today is #unmaskAmerica Day

 

[Yeah Baby]

Today is #unmaskAmerica Day

I saw that above.

 

[RU848789]

Because biased scientists who hate orange men can still fudge results or set up the experiments to prove something does not work. I thought we covered this. Maybe I should have been explicit and said "fudged" RCTs. I will try to restrain myself in the future. It's not just covid-19 and HCQ. I think what Big Pharma has done with data and statins is a borderline criminal conspiracy.

My point is you said you were joking and clearly you were not, as your post above confirms. Feel free to say whatever you want about RCTs, but don't pretend you're joking or if you are maybe use an emoticon or something. And we disagree completely on statins as you might imagine...but that's probably best for a different thread, lol.

 

[RU848789]

What will happen this late fall and winter when people get the common cold of flu? Is everything gonna be called Covid because $$ are tied to Covid and not the cold or flu?

I can see people freakin the eff out and frothy indignation and signaling as a result.

Flu is way down in the Southern Hemisphere, likely because distancing/masking are much more effective with the less transmissible flu than COVID. And people with COVID usually are tested, whereas, historically, very few people with the flu are actually tested (which is why flu deaths per year are model estimates, not actual death counts, like COVID).

 

[bac2therac]

Gee i wonder why

Polls show trust in scientific, political institutions eroding

The American public is beginning to lose trust in political leaders and scientific institutions as the coronavirus pandemic drags into its sixth month, troubling signs that raise the prospect that …

thehill.com

 

[okieKnight908]

Gee i wonder why

Polls show trust in scientific, political institutions eroding

The American public is beginning to lose trust in political leaders and scientific institutions as the coronavirus pandemic drags into its sixth month, troubling signs that raise the prospect that …

thehill.com

You actually read that? Numbers ticking down a bit, but still pretty high for CDC, Fauci, and Gov. Murphy. Not so much for Trump though, since he flat-out lied to the entire country. Covid coulda been such a boon for him, but like a virus is going to virus, a habitual liar is going to lie.

 

[Shell21]

Gee i wonder why

Polls show trust in scientific, political institutions eroding

The American public is beginning to lose trust in political leaders and scientific institutions as the coronavirus pandemic drags into its sixth month, troubling signs that raise the prospect that …

thehill.com

It’s not even that bad a decline so I’m doubting you even read the article but not shocked . Also , what decline happened is a result of Donny and his anti American crack staff pressuring institutions to change and hide data which is purely political in nature . If you are keeping track , this is what happens in totalitarian regimes but since some of you guys love Trump I guess you like that sort of thing .

Trump is the only guy who could have science endorse his opposition .

 

[fsg2]

My point is you said you were joking and clearly you were not, as your post above confirms. Feel free to say whatever you want about RCTs, but don't pretend you're joking or if you are maybe use an emoticon or something. And we disagree completely on statins as you might imagine...but that's probably best for a different thread, lol.

Knight Shift's MO is to couch a derisive comment into something he can later call a joke when he gets called out. But he always betrays himself by pushing whatever point he was passive-aggressively making.

Don't push back too hard or he gets very butthurt.

 

[RU848789]

Gee i wonder why

Polls show trust in scientific, political institutions eroding

The American public is beginning to lose trust in political leaders and scientific institutions as the coronavirus pandemic drags into its sixth month, troubling signs that raise the prospect that …

thehill.com

I don't - it's due to anti-science people like you. Congrats, your disinformation/misinformation campaign is bearing fruit.

 

[ashokan]

Trump loses to Science again . Science is undefeated and wiping the floor with Donny.

"Science" is often sponsored garbage these days. It was "scientists" who were telling us we didn't need masks, and that the new coronavirus came from a wet market, would be like the flu and probably wouldn't affect the US. Then they say virus was only in "droplets" and not in aerosol

Then when Trump showed interest in a (cheap) 60 yr old drug long declared "safe and well tolerated" by CDC (we have the screencaps from CDC site) the "scientists" cooked-up garbage "studies" published Lancet that had to be retracted. Oh the new 3k drug was suddenly magic.

Now "scientists" are advising voting for a kid groping, senile alte kaker who can't keep his head together unassisted. Everyone knows his shelf life as president is a matter of weeks.

The Nazis killed science once and now the swamp is doing it again.

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

"Science" is often sponsored garbage these days. It was "scientists" who were telling us we didn't need masks, and that the new coronavirus came from a wet market, would be like the flu and probably wouldn't affect the US. Then they say virus was only in "droplets" and not in aerosol

Then when Trump showed interest in a (cheap) 60 yr old drug long declared "safe and well tolerated" by CDC (we have the screencaps from CDC site) the "scientists" cooked-up garbage "studies" published Lancet that had to be retracted. Oh the new 3k drug was suddenly magic.

Now "scientists" are advising voting for a kid groping, senile alte kaker who can't keep his head together unassisted. Everyone knows his shelf life as president is a matter of weeks.

The Nazis killed science once and now the swamp is doing it again.

View embedded media

Standing ovation for that post 👍👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

 

[WhiteBus]

This is the site studies are uploaded to as they wait to be peer reviewed. I’ll make sure to repost this study once it’s published in one of the journals.

So you posted an article from non doctors playing the unscientific math angle to prove what??

 

[RU848789]

I've posted quite a few links to scholarly articles that disagree completely with the "made in the lab" conspiracy theories, so I'm not inclined to repeat all that unless requested, but with regard to this "paper," did you know it was funded by the "Rule of Law Society," which is a political non-profit group dedicated to "investigating Chinese corruption" and is led by Steve Bannon and underwritten by fugitive Chinese billionaire Guo Wengui?

I have no love for the Chinese government, but Bannon has already been indicted for fraud in his role in raising money for the build the wall charity - remember that yacht they joked about buying with stolen funds from contributors? That was owned by Guo Wengui and the author of this non peer-reviewed "paper" also happens to be a regular on Bannon's nutty 4-hour daily YouTube-show "War Room Pandemic."

To think that this "paper" isn't a political hit-job is to have one's head in the sand - the first link, below, discusses how Yan has been promising "damning evidence" of a lab made virus for months and none was provided at all in this "paper" (just recycled claims that have been circulating for months). If people want to buy into this theory, someone at least needs to provide a good source with some actual convincing science behind it.

Whistleblower makes shocking claim that coronavirus was created in a Chinese lab

A coronavirus whistleblower who fled Hong Kong in April to escape persecution from the Chinese government said in recent interviews that she has evidence China …

bgr.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/steve-bannon-guo-wengui/2020/09/13/8b43cd06-e964-11ea-bc79-834454439a44_story.html

Well, LiMeng Yan's Twitter account was revoked, so clearly they think her "paper" is shite. I am conflicted on censorship vs. public safety though. I generally abhor censorship, but if someone is obviously doing the equivalent of yelling "fire" in a crowded movie house (lying), which can lead to panic and injuries (so it's illegal), by publishing something "fake" (lying) which could lead to people not getting a vaccine (and increasing cases/injuries), for example, I can see censoring it. But as nutty as this case is, I doubt it's causing harm other than wasting some people's time, so I'd prefer to just label it as clearly false.

 

[Knight Shift]

My point is you said you were joking and clearly you were not, as your post above confirms. Feel free to say whatever you want about RCTs, but don't pretend you're joking or if you are maybe use an emoticon or something. And we disagree completely on statins as you might imagine...but that's probably best for a different thread, lol.

Maybe my sense of humor is too dry or subtle. When I said "quadruple blind" pertaining to wearing of masks, that was a signal that I was goofing on the whole idea of such a study, as it would be difficult to conduct. This discussion is not going very productively is it? Let's just agree that we disagree. But it should be pointed out that you and I can strongly disagree on an issue and not resort to shaming, name-calling, etc. The way a conversation with opposing viewpoints should be conducted. At a tailgate someday, we can discuss my disdain for the statin industry and how MDs unnecessarily push statins on patients.

 

[bac2therac]

"Science" is often sponsored garbage these days. It was "scientists" who were telling us we didn't need masks, and that the new coronavirus came from a wet market, would be like the flu and probably wouldn't affect the US. Then they say virus was only in "droplets" and not in aerosol

Then when Trump showed interest in a (cheap) 60 yr old drug long declared "safe and well tolerated" by CDC (we have the screencaps from CDC site) the "scientists" cooked-up garbage "studies" published Lancet that had to be retracted. Oh the new 3k drug was suddenly magic.

Now "scientists" are advising voting for a kid groping, senile alte kaker who can't keep his head together unassisted. Everyone knows his shelf life as president is a matter of weeks.

The Nazis killed science once and now the swamp is doing it again.

View embedded media

yup

did you see some group of scientists for the first time endorsed a president..they are making a comedy of science with their political pretzels about everything.

 

[Shell21]

Caputo,
Like the rest of trumps loony toon administration belongs in a mental institution when all this is done . What an embarrassment that we actually have people like this working under a president . Mental Heath is nothing to laugh at , but these people shouldn’t be in any position of authority.

wow, I don’t like to toot my own horn , but was I dead on in what I said about Caputo this morning. Now we just need the rest of the loony toon brigade to do the same .

 

[bac2therac]

You actually read that? Numbers ticking down a bit, but still pretty high for CDC, Fauci, and Gov. Murphy. Not so much for Trump though, since he flat-out lied to the entire country. Covid coulda been such a boon for him, but like a virus is going to virus, a habitual liar is going to lie.

Faucis numbers have cratered among Republicans

 

[bac2therac]

View embedded media

wow, I don’t like to toot my own horn , but was I dead on in what I said about Caputo this morning. Now we just need the rest of the loony toon brigade to do the same .

you do realize no one gives a crap about Caputo but keep missing the mark as you follow the inside the beltway irrelvancy of the msm

 

[fsg2]

you do realize no one gives a crap about Caputo but keep missing the mark as you follow the inside the beltway irrelvancy of the msm

😂😂😂😂😆😆😆😆