It seems like the documentation fee and destination fee of some new cars are high. Are dealers legally bound to use the true values, or do dealers inflate the numbers to make more profit?
OT: Do dealers inflate the documentation and destination fees?
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lol no, the majority of posts are reasons why Coach Ash should be fired. Those have bottomed out. My post is asking for valuable information.
Like most fees, dealers will tell you it's non-negotiable, and it isn't – if you don't negotiate it
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Exactly this. I have seen doc fees range from 350 to 499 recently. The amount of ways dealers try force you into paying more is pathetic. Latest BS move is the "appearance fee" charged by the Honda crooks in Union. They put pin stripes and plastic door guards on all their used cars, then charge $700 for $30 worth of parts. On their new cars they window etch before the car is pit up for sale and charge $300 for it.
Do yourself a favor. Negotiate the price of the car either "all in" or with all fees except tax and DMV, which are the true non-negotiables.
I am a small independent dealer in PA and our standard document fee is 115.00. I was told by the department of banking that it can't be higher. May be different for new car stores.
It does not matter. You should negotiate the final price or payment. What the dealer wants to call the details is unimportant. If you get the deal you want, the dealer can call the "costs" whatever they want.
That dealer is filled with thieves. Never buy from a dealer like that. Open Road Honda in Edison gave me a good deal a while ago and Paramus Honda is another solid Honda dealer.
Last time I purchased a new car{ I have never leased}, I came in with a computer print out of all the fees, and list prices of what every dealer pays for all the extras. Basically this site said you should be able to buy a vehicle for no more than $500 over cost. When the salesman saw what I was reading from, his first response was," Come on, we need to make more than that just to keep the lights on in this place". I told him" I get that, make it off the next guy". Dare I say,I put him on Upset Alert!!!!!:weary::scream::smiley:
New car? Here's how you do it: First, decide precisely what car you want, make, model, color, packages. To decide this, go to dealers to look and test drive. Once you've decided, you'll return to the dealer just once--to buy.
So, once you've decided, get the actual dealer costs for that car and package. There are sources available. Then, near the end of the month, draft an email that sets out the car and the packages that you will be buying with the dealer's precise costs for each element of that car. The email will state that you know the dealer costs (as you laid out), that you are sending this email to 7 (or however many, be truthful) dealers in the area, that you will absolutely be buying this precise car within a week, and asking the dealer to provide their absolute best price via a response email (maybe phone call). State that this is the easiest deal they will ever negotiate because you don't need a test drive or to walk around the lot with them. You'll be coming in simply to pay for and pick up the car. But, most important, lowest price wins. And this means everything but the tax. Their responsive email should give full price breaking down all costs. Lowest gets an immediate and easy sale. And, once again and most important, make sure that they each know that you are sending this email to [insert number] dealer, lowest all-in price wins.
Then send the email to sales reps (preferably the sales manager) at as many nearby dealerships as you are comfortable driving to. Don't send one email with all dealers on the "to" line. That would allow them to easily talk to each other. Send each email, with the same content, individually to each dealer.
You are pitting dealers against each other blindly. And by including many dealers you will find out which particular dealer may be in a position to give an extra low price because it may be nearing certain internal incentive bonuses. I usually find one or two dealers meaningfully lower than the others.
Works every time. Low stress, low price, just a little preparation.
So, once you've decided, get the actual dealer costs for that car and package. There are sources available. Then, near the end of the month, draft an email that sets out the car and the packages that you will be buying with the dealer's precise costs for each element of that car. The email will state that you know the dealer costs (as you laid out), that you are sending this email to 7 (or however many, be truthful) dealers in the area, that you will absolutely be buying this precise car within a week, and asking the dealer to provide their absolute best price via a response email (maybe phone call). State that this is the easiest deal they will ever negotiate because you don't need a test drive or to walk around the lot with them. You'll be coming in simply to pay for and pick up the car. But, most important, lowest price wins. And this means everything but the tax. Their responsive email should give full price breaking down all costs. Lowest gets an immediate and easy sale. And, once again and most important, make sure that they each know that you are sending this email to [insert number] dealer, lowest all-in price wins.
Then send the email to sales reps (preferably the sales manager) at as many nearby dealerships as you are comfortable driving to. Don't send one email with all dealers on the "to" line. That would allow them to easily talk to each other. Send each email, with the same content, individually to each dealer.
You are pitting dealers against each other blindly. And by including many dealers you will find out which particular dealer may be in a position to give an extra low price because it may be nearing certain internal incentive bonuses. I usually find one or two dealers meaningfully lower than the others.
Works every time. Low stress, low price, just a little preparation.
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That is what Brad Benson used to do all the time and that was how he seemed to lower his prices so much. Each of his cars had a dealer package that is exactly as described and he would charge up to 2k for it. That is why his add were very careful to say off dealer price, and also meant to be funny and yet distracting.
As for the fees- they range. They do have to disclose exactly what is being paid to DMV but the rest of it is for their own paperwork, getting the car prepped, etc...if what someone else said is true and max allowed is $115...I am sure there are ways to word the T&C to allow discretionary costs. No different than any company that charges "shipping & Handling" it is the handling that can be anything they want to charge.
That sounds like the same process used by Trucar. It essentially pits dealers against one another to bid on your business for a specific vehicle they have in inventory.
https://www.truecar.com/
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Best way I've found to get a car is to let them "break your legs"
Let them know that youre going to go to their in-brand competitor and get a price from them. They'll give you a price so low that they know that the competition wont be able to touch it, and when you come back to the original dealer, all of a sudden rebates or incentives arent available, etc and they can no longer honor that price.
Its a shady old school practice that most dealerships still do.
You get around it by walking out the door and milling about for a minute then coming back in and saying you want the deal. Full panic mode ensues and they try to talk you out of the care then band you in finance. Resist, and you have quite a deal
Let them know that youre going to go to their in-brand competitor and get a price from them. They'll give you a price so low that they know that the competition wont be able to touch it, and when you come back to the original dealer, all of a sudden rebates or incentives arent available, etc and they can no longer honor that price.
Its a shady old school practice that most dealerships still do.
You get around it by walking out the door and milling about for a minute then coming back in and saying you want the deal. Full panic mode ensues and they try to talk you out of the care then band you in finance. Resist, and you have quite a deal
I've found that what works best for me is to first decide on the car I want, and get the pricing from the internet, where you can usually find the price band that is considered a good price. Then I go to multiple dealers to get their best price, all inclusive. (I've also tried the email route, but I discovered those prices are usually higher than what is offered in person.)
When I get the price, I am upfront with the dealer and tell them I plan to shop around and will decide by the end of the week. Occasionally a dealer will tell me that the price is only good that day, and I tell them if they can't offer me a price that is good through the end of the week, I'll just buy elsewhere. I never fall for the pressure to buy that day, and if the dealer offers me incentives to buy that day, I tell them not to offer me any incentives unless they're good next Friday too.
After I get quotes, I find that most of them are usually in the band I found on the internet. I don't always buy from the dealer that offered the best price. Sometimes I'll rule out the lowest price dealer if they played games with me to give me a quote ... because I'm then afraid they'll play games with me on the purchase.
I don't know if I get the absolutely rock-bottom price. But I get a price I'm happy with, and I'm not going to fret that I could have saved another 1%.
When I get the price, I am upfront with the dealer and tell them I plan to shop around and will decide by the end of the week. Occasionally a dealer will tell me that the price is only good that day, and I tell them if they can't offer me a price that is good through the end of the week, I'll just buy elsewhere. I never fall for the pressure to buy that day, and if the dealer offers me incentives to buy that day, I tell them not to offer me any incentives unless they're good next Friday too.
After I get quotes, I find that most of them are usually in the band I found on the internet. I don't always buy from the dealer that offered the best price. Sometimes I'll rule out the lowest price dealer if they played games with me to give me a quote ... because I'm then afraid they'll play games with me on the purchase.
I don't know if I get the absolutely rock-bottom price. But I get a price I'm happy with, and I'm not going to fret that I could have saved another 1%.
the fees can be negotiated if you are willing to walk.
What they are doing is charging you a fee they are charged to ship the car from the factory to their lot. It is probably less than what they list but that is probably the listed fee where if they fill a car trailer they get a discount.
If you play hard ball they can as well. Just say they give 10 free oil changes with a new car purchase. The fine print may be linked to certain fees. if you negotiate them out you lose the free oil changes.
When buying a 30k car it will sometimes be tough to nickle and dime negotiate over a $300 delivery charge.
What they are doing is charging you a fee they are charged to ship the car from the factory to their lot. It is probably less than what they list but that is probably the listed fee where if they fill a car trailer they get a discount.
If you play hard ball they can as well. Just say they give 10 free oil changes with a new car purchase. The fine print may be linked to certain fees. if you negotiate them out you lose the free oil changes.
When buying a 30k car it will sometimes be tough to nickle and dime negotiate over a $300 delivery charge.
I had a similar issue with a Honda dealer in Monmouth County. I went through the Costco Auto Program and got a price at this dealer that allegedly was going to be the price I paid at the dealer. Supposedly it's a big deal for a car dealer to be in the Costco Auto Program. I don't know. Anyhow, I got to the dealer and was expecting to pay this price. It was a good price in my shopping. So then they tried to bag me for I think about $1,800 in extras. The ones mentioned above plus some other junk. I was going to walk as I was paying cash and didn't appreciate their hustle. Told them I was going to call the Costco Auto Program and complain about their dealership. So they offered to drop that $1,800 down to $300, which at that point I felt represented ok value for the add-ins.
My wife complained anyhow the next day to the Costco Auto Program. Then she called the dealer to complain. Somehow got in touch with a general manager or something I think. They hand delivered a check for $300 to us in Middlesex County later that week.
End of rant, but the whole experience was dirty!
I think the pre-negotiated prices are for a vehicle with a certain trim. Say you want a Honda Accord LX they will give you a prenegotiated price for it. Now if they have body side molding, door edge guards, or parking sensors pre-installed they will hit you up for more. You may just want the basic LX in Blue with nothing else but the only blue LX they have has these pre-installed features.
Then the pre-negotiated pricing services will have a disclaimer about some fees being added on top (like a delivery / destination fee)
True Car and Edmunds both have articles on these fees and both say to be prepared to pay them.
https://www.truecar.com/blog/2011/08/10/destination-fees-on-new-cars-what-you-should-expect-to-pay/
https://help.edmunds.com/hc/en-us/articles/206102367-Are-destination-charges-negotiable-
Thanks for the info and the links. Will read them to be informed for next time. The problem I ran into was when I went to the dealer was exactly what you said about vehicle availability. After they tried to up-sell me on the vehicle with all those trim enhancements, I told them, no thanks, I just want the vehicle detailed on the Costco Auto Program term sheet. The saleswoman in no certain terms then told me that they didn't have a vehicle without all the add-ons "because they need to make money to stay open". Haha, I appreciated the honesty I guess.
I thought that dealers in the Costco program gave you a price quote for a specific car, identified by the VIN.
Hmm, I looked back in the emails I had gotten from the Costco program and then the dealer, and didn't see a VIN. They quoted me a price only. I also saw in some emails with another Honda dealer from back then "the Costco price could only be given in person" which seems shady looking back.
This was in March 2016, so maybe the Costco program has since changed. Or I got jerked around too.
The Costco program isn't of much use if dealers don't quote prices for specific cars, or quote prices for cars they aren't willing to sell you or aren't available.
The basic cars without add ons are for the commercials.
"Get a new car for $19,999" which is basic but when you get there the cheapest is $23k.
Remember the black friday deals for TVs.
New 55in HD TV for $299 (in fine print limited to 5 per store).
then when you are 20th on line they only have it as part of a package with speakers that is $599.
"Get a new car for $19,999" which is basic but when you get there the cheapest is $23k.
Remember the black friday deals for TVs.
New 55in HD TV for $299 (in fine print limited to 5 per store).
then when you are 20th on line they only have it as part of a package with speakers that is $599.
Agreed, based on my experience. It wasn't quite what it was cracked up to be. Although, getting back to the original thread subject, I did see in the emails at the time that the $900 destination and handling charge was included in the quoted price I had received, for whatever that was worth.
During a time of crisis in my life I worked selling cars for about a year. I would rather work selling pencils on a street corner then do that again.
But you are referring to “factory” packages. Some dealerships and places like the old Brad Bensons created their own package. Usually a cheap pinstripes, etching and maybe some other cheap $50 add on and then bump it 700-2000
This is completely shady
I agree.
They probably put on different tires or black wheels to also add to the price.
That reminds me of that same crappy Route 22 Honda dealer. I went through Costco and got the price. Took it to the dealer and they said they wouldn't honor it because the car was too popular.
I will add Joyce Honda to your list. We have bought three cars from them after negotiating a fair purchase price. Their documentation fees were some of the lowest around and there were no surprise 1,000% + markup forced add ons.
A lot of places like Costco actually take this shit serious and you will get results by going to them with your complaints...but be able to back it up.
Hell, call them while sitting across from the sales person.
We did that with our rates at Lexus. We called Chase bank to get our rate after selecting our car and being scheduled for delivery. So we already had the vin number. We got the rate at Chase and they had told us that this dealership was a partner so they couldnt sell to us direct but we get the same exact rate from the dealer.
We went in and did not tell them we already had the rate. They came back with a rate .5 higher and of course Lexus financial could do better then that which was actually the same rate we already got from Chase.
That is when we told them we already have our rate from Chase. They tried so many ways to dance around it until my Wife(who is in Banking Finance) picked up the phone, called Chase directly while we were sitting in finance and put them on speaker.
The look on the finance manager was priceless.
Dealer fees are hard ads on your contract, they can not be removed. However you can negotiate the sale price if you are unwilling to pay said fee, just know that it will still be on your actual contract or agreement.
As far as the destination that fee is set by the manufacturer and is in your window sticker and not set or controlled in any way by the dealer.
Go to Costco Auto Program. Put in the specifics of the car you want. You will receive a call from a local dealer within fifteen minutes. Go to the dealer. In five minutes the Costco price is in front of you in writing. Pay the dealer his doc fee so he can make a living. Drive out with the car. $$$$
Was at a dealer, they had a fee for $109 for putting nitrogen in the tires. They said they would waive that and save me $109 dollars. Has anyone put nitrogen in their tires? I have never heard of such a thing. And how can you even prove that it is nitrogen? Once it is in the tire you can't let it out to test it
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