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OT: Donovan McNabb a hall of famer?!

I hate the "Superbowl" winning QB argument for a HOF case. In just the past 2 years, Tom Brady won one and lost one. He was spectacular in the one they lost, and was below average in the one that they won. As another poster said winning a SB takes an entire team.

What about Kurt Warner with the Rams Greatest Show on Earth?

He threw for over 400 yards in the Superbow, 2 TDs no INTs.. lots of incompletes.. but his Rb Marshall Faulk was held to 17 yards and they won. I don' t know they win that without him.

Montana had awesome stats in a Superbowl.. but when Young took over his SB stats were comparable.
 
oops I was wrong McNabb's top ten targets were:

Terrell Owens
Brian Westbrook
Desean Jackson
Kevin Curtis
Todd Pinkston
Reggie Brown
Chad Lewis
Jason Avant
Brent Celek
Jeremy Maclin

..sure.. looks like he had no talent around him... right....
He had Owens for 21 games, Jackson only for his last 2 seasons in Philly, and Maclin for his last. Outside of Westbrook, he played with garbage.
 
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He had Owens for 21 games, Jackson only for his last 2 seasons in Philly, and Maclin for his last. Outside of Westbrook, he played with garbage.
Yeah, Good Ol’s post was definitely disingenuous. Everyone knows McNabb didn’t have true weapons at WR until later in his career.
 
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Ditto for me as well. The fact that he considers himself better than Aikman is laughable. Aikman granted is the definition of a game manager, but McNabb's ego and personality is extremely unlikeable.
McNabb's stats make Aikman's look laughable & Aikman was surrounded by HOFers. The one year McNabb had an elite wr, McNabb was awesome.
McNabb is a HOFer, easily.
His supporting cast of wrs was mostly forgetable
 
Yeah, Good Ol’s post was definitely disingenuous. Everyone knows McNabb didn’t have true weapons at WR until later in his career.
Hey.. all I did was look up a list.. I showed my source. The previous post on this topic didn't even mention Owens Westbrook and Jackson. Which post was more disingenuous? How much does it matter what WRs McNabb had, say, in his first 3-4 years when he ran the ball too much? 2004 with Terrell Owens for the whole year.. that was his best year... so who deserves to be in the HoF off of that.. McNabb or Owens? Does a HoF QB need a HoF receiver or does a HoF QB MAKE HoF receivers?
 
Hey.. all I did was look up a list.. I showed my source. The previous post on this topic didn't even mention Owens Westbrook and Jackson. Which post was more disingenuous? How much does it matter what WRs McNabb had, say, in his first 3-4 years when he ran the ball too much? 2004 with Terrell Owens for the whole year.. that was his best year... so who deserves to be in the HoF off of that.. McNabb or Owens? Does a HoF QB need a HoF receiver or does a HoF QB MAKE HoF receivers?
You looked up a list and didn’t watch the games or follow the team during that period. You don’t know what you are talking about. You are spinning and bs’ing now. For the record, I think Eli is a HOF caliber QB and Donovan is borderline only because the lack of a SB title.
 
Giants were 5th in the NFC in points scored and 12th in points allowed. Just how is Eli responsible for the negative differential?
The record explains it. The Giants were 9-7 that year. Plus my point is if Eli was that much better than DM, then the Giants aren't in this situation. That season the Giants weren't scoring machine. Eli is a good QB. but not great. Besides, I'm a Jets fan so take my opinion with a grain of salt. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
 
McNabb was a great QB with some of the classic QB skills. People say a HOF player should have been dominant in his day. McNabb was very good but I don't think of him as dominant since his SB performance wasn't so hot (would have been worse without Terrell Owens). Eli could be a clodhopper in regular season but he was Hercules in Super Bowl. The great ones rise-up in the biggest battles

I think he was a step below that. I can't tell how many times McNabb demonstrated no touch as he threw a bullet at a receiver's feet. He was very good but not HOF.
 
Ditto for me as well. The fact that he considers himself better than Aikman is laughable. Aikman granted is the definition of a game manager, but McNabb's ego and personality is extremely unlikeable.

LOL. "Number five loves you"
 
I think he was a step below that. I can't tell how many times McNabb demonstrated no touch as he threw a bullet at a receiver's feet. He was very good but not HOF.

As a Giants fan, I saw my share of Eagles games. Nobody gave me PTSD like Randall Cunningham (who made All Pro 1st Team 2x - McNabb never). Cunningham was better than McNabb imo.

I recall watching McNabb at SU. As an Army fan, I remember when he got in trouble making a salute after scoring a TD on Army, and catching a lot of heat for it (I thought it was all overblown). After al those years, my most vivid memory of McNabb was just looking awful in 4th quarter of SB. I never saw a QB that "finished" in 4th.
 
As a Giants fan, I saw my share of Eagles games. Nobody gave me PTSD like Randall Cunningham (who made All Pro 1st Team 2x - McNabb never). Cunningham was better than McNabb imo.

I recall watching McNabb at SU. As an Army fan, I remember when he got in trouble making a salute after scoring a TD on Army, and catching a lot of heat for it (I thought it was all overblown). After al those years, my most vivid memory of McNabb was just looking awful in 4th quarter of SB. I never saw a QB that "finished" in 4th.

Hard to compare 12 and 5. Randall had no one on the O with him and Buddy didn't care. But that was one hell of a defense. They seems to score 10 points a game.

I'll never forget that Byars block on Pepper Johnson during a Cunningham scramble. Looked like Pepper was headed for the stands in the air. LOL. Small victories.

 
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You looked up a list and didn’t watch the games or follow the team during that period. You don’t know what you are talking about. You are spinning and bs’ing now. For the record, I think Eli is a HOF caliber QB and Donovan is borderline only because the lack of a SB title.
What's your malfunction? I responded to mikebal9 who said:

Go back and look at the weapons he had at WR. Most of his career, he was throwing to James Thrash and Todd Pinkston.

That didn't look fair to me.. so I looked up a list of his favorite targets.. and put that list here. And for some reason.. likely being a Philly fan.. you decide that I am being disingenuous. I hadn't taken a stand either way other than to suggest it goes deeper than looking at Thrash and Pinkston. If McNabb never threw to any WRs but everything else about him screamed HoF I wouldn't care a lick. I am not arguing for or against McNabb in the HoF.. I am saying listing only Pinkston and Thrash was wrong and misleading.

As I first suggested.. McNabb threw to RBs fairly often. Was that because the WRs weren't open? Was that because he had no protection? Was that because he was inaccurate downfield? Was that because he was running round looking to run too often? Was that because that was the plan?

I could very well be that it looked like McNabb had no one to throw to because his QB skills did not allow a WR to excel. As he got older and less likely to run.. McNabb got better. Terrel Owens did pretty well in his games with McNabb.. more or less what his age should allow.. though he later did somewhat better with Romo throwing to him in Dallas.

You talk about WRs and lack of them.. Desean Jackson did better with Nick Foles in Philly than he did with McNabb or Vick.

Essentially, you guys are saying McNabb would have had more HoF-worthy stats if he had star WRs on the team. That is an unprovable assumption.

You think McNabb is HoF-worthy.. fine. McNabb agrees. It is not something that can be proven.. certainly not by imagining what he could have done with better WRs. Tom Brady is the GOAT... are Welker or Edleman HoF WRs? Are they HoF worthy because of Brady and the system New England runs? Was Montana as good as he looked in that system in SF? Was Young? Or was it the system and the surrounding cast and the games SF management played with the salary cap?

Bottom line to me is that you cannot make a statistical argument in favor of McNabb... so you just have to go on gut feeling. I don't care either way.. so I cannot possible "lose" this squabble.
 
Go back and look at the weapons he had at WR. Most of his career, he was throwing to James Thrash and Todd Pinkston.
Yah, but Brian Westbrook could run for a 100 and catch for 80, bwest hasn’t got his due
 
What's your malfunction? I responded to mikebal9 who said:



That didn't look fair to me.. so I looked up a list of his favorite targets.. and put that list here. And for some reason.. likely being a Philly fan.. you decide that I am being disingenuous. I hadn't taken a stand either way other than to suggest it goes deeper than looking at Thrash and Pinkston. If McNabb never threw to any WRs but everything else about him screamed HoF I wouldn't care a lick. I am not arguing for or against McNabb in the HoF.. I am saying listing only Pinkston and Thrash was wrong and misleading.

As I first suggested.. McNabb threw to RBs fairly often. Was that because the WRs weren't open? Was that because he had no protection? Was that because he was inaccurate downfield? Was that because he was running round looking to run too often? Was that because that was the plan?

I could very well be that it looked like McNabb had no one to throw to because his QB skills did not allow a WR to excel. As he got older and less likely to run.. McNabb got better. Terrel Owens did pretty well in his games with McNabb.. more or less what his age should allow.. though he later did somewhat better with Romo throwing to him in Dallas.

You talk about WRs and lack of them.. Desean Jackson did better with Nick Foles in Philly than he did with McNabb or Vick.

Essentially, you guys are saying McNabb would have had more HoF-worthy stats if he had star WRs on the team. That is an unprovable assumption.

You think McNabb is HoF-worthy.. fine. McNabb agrees. It is not something that can be proven.. certainly not by imagining what he could have done with better WRs. Tom Brady is the GOAT... are Welker or Edleman HoF WRs? Are they HoF worthy because of Brady and the system New England runs? Was Montana as good as he looked in that system in SF? Was Young? Or was it the system and the surrounding cast and the games SF management played with the salary cap?

Bottom line to me is that you cannot make a statistical argument in favor of McNabb... so you just have to go on gut feeling. I don't care either way.. so I cannot possible "lose" this squabble.
Whole lot of nothing here.
 
I remember Mcnabb putting up some stinkers in some nfc championship games. Especially that cardinals won he missed some throws that may have won the game . The super bowl suck hurts him. Very good quarterback, but not hall of fame.
Eli is an interesting case. His name and two super bowl mvp’s probably get him in at some point . Every multiple super bowl mvp winner is in.
 
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McNabb and Ken Anderson are in the same spot. Winning a SB is huge as far as making the Hall and both had their one shot and lost. Look at Joe Namath. Stat-wise, the guy has no business being in the Hall (more ints than TDs, for example) but The Guarantee, yada, yada. McNabb was a better QB than Namath as was Anderson.
 
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As a Giants fan, I saw my share of Eagles games. Nobody gave me PTSD like Randall Cunningham (who made All Pro 1st Team 2x - McNabb never). Cunningham was better than McNabb imo.

I recall watching McNabb at SU. As an Army fan, I remember when he got in trouble making a salute after scoring a TD on Army, and catching a lot of heat for it (I thought it was all overblown). After al those years, my most vivid memory of McNabb was just looking awful in 4th quarter of SB. I never saw a QB that "finished" in 4th.
Imagine if Cunningham had Andy Reid or Doug Pederson coaching him instead of a moron like Rich Kotite or someone who didn't care about offense like Buddy Ryan.
 
Imagine if Cunningham had Andy Reid or Doug Pederson coaching him instead of a moron like Rich Kotite or someone who didn't care about offense like Buddy Ryan.

I also recall the OL during Cunningham years was pretty bad - led the league in sacks allowed a few times. Cunningham was an All American punter in college, and once punted 91 yds vs Giants. He had a gumby body with arms and legs like whips. NFL Player of the Year in 1988 and 1990 (1990 NFL MVP). Cunningham and Brian Dawkins were best Eagles players I ever saw. If someone never saw Cunningham they might not know how good he was. When I looked at Giants schedule I read "Eagles" but I saw "Cunningham." Wouldn't bother me if he made HOF. McNabb seems a reach



 
Cunningham was an All American punter in college, and once punted 91 yds vs Giants.
I was at that game. Probably the coldest Giant game I was ever at.

Super, super windy that day and Meggett obviously made a bad play.

What the video doesn’t show is Cunningham waving off the regular punter. We would all look good with a 40mph gust behind our back.
 
I also recall the OL during Cunningham years was pretty bad - led the league in sacks allowed a few times. Cunningham was an All American punter in college, and once punted 91 yds vs Giants. He had a gumby body with arms and legs like whips. NFL Player of the Year in 1988 and 1990 (1990 NFL MVP). Cunningham and Brian Dawkins were best Eagles players I ever saw. If someone never saw Cunningham they might not know how good he was. When I looked at Giants schedule I read "Eagles" but I saw "Cunningham." Wouldn't bother me if he made HOF. McNabb seems a reach



The O line was terrible.
 
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McNabb record with Eagles. 92-49
Eli record with Giants 114-112; Eli was one and out every playoff year, other than the two Super Bowls. In less years played, McNabb has more playoff wins. McNabb also was an amazing scrambler. McNabb rushing yards, 3,459, Eli 560.
 
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McNabb record with Eagles. 92-49
Eli record with Giants 114-112; Eli was one and out every playoff year, other than the two Super Bowls. In less years played, McNabb has more playoff wins. McNabb also was an amazing scrambler. McNabb rushing yards, 3,459, Eli 560.
Eli is getting in. 2 rings, 2 MVPs, and 2 game winning late 4th quarter drives to take the lead.
 
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McNabb record with Eagles. 92-49
Eli record with Giants 114-112; Eli was one and out every playoff year, other than the two Super Bowls. In less years played, McNabb has more playoff wins. McNabb also was an amazing scrambler. McNabb rushing yards, 3,459, Eli 560.
Not the ones that count...
Eli is getting in. 2 rings, 2 MVPs, and 2 game winning late 4th quarter drives to take the lead.
 
Eli is getting in. 2 rings, 2 MVPs, and 2 game winning late 4th quarter drives to take the lead.

All passers with at least 3,000 attempts since Manning’s rookie season in 2004, he ranks 15th out of 21 qualified passers (that is not favorable) for net yards per pass. And that stat was before last season. He’ll get in because the two rings and his longevity. For the Giants to only have a playoff win in Only 2 seasons since 2004 is sad.
 
All passers with at least 3,000 attempts since Manning’s rookie season in 2004, he ranks 15th out of 21 qualified passers (that is not favorable) for net yards per pass. And that stat was before last season. He’ll get in because the two rings and his longevity. For the Giants to only have a playoff win in Only 2 seasons since 2004 is sad.
Definitely sad, but those 2 playoff runs were epic and any franchise would sign up in a heartbeat for those results over the career of a franchise QB (except for NE!).
 
McNabb was a very good QB and had a few HOF type seasons but on balance no. As an Eagles fan, he was a frustrating guy to root for, though he was also entertaining for sure. Clearly did not come up big when in the biggest stage which is the true measure of greatness. But I’ll add there are inferior QB’s in the HOF, and McNabb is far above Romo for certain.
 
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