OT: Electric vehicles

jtung230

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Of course it matters how recent the factories began production. There's a laundry list of industry firsts going on at Austin and Berlin. From a manufacturing perspective, a Fremont MY is considerably different from an Austin MY. The same cannot be said for legacy auto who have been treading water with the same EV design for years and still haven't hit volume production

The slow start will pay off in the long run. And "slow" by Tesla standards. <3 months into production, and Austin is at a greater output than all GM EVs combined.
I’m just telling you what Musk said in the article. I see you are now comparing EVs only again because it convenient. With limited parts, legacy auto is focused on ICE vehicles. But they are still taking EV market share away from Tesla.
 

Rutgers Chris

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From the above-linked motortrend article:

"And Ford claims it'll hit 62 mph in less than two seconds"

I mean, what loving parent doesn't need to sometimes accelerate their kid-hauling minivan to 62mph on their kid's grade school street, with a sub-2s time, to make sure their kid is first in line to give teacher an apple? 😃
As a teen I drove my mom’s Ford Astra Minivan many a time when I had a group going somewhere. I can say with confidence if it went 0-62 that fast, I wouldn’t be here today 😂
 

Knight Shift

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Good review (ignore the typos/spelling errors) of an owner's delivery experience and 1100 mile drive home with a F150 Lightning Lariat Extended Range. Interesting because the reviewer is a Tesla owner who makes some comparisons to Tesla.

 
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theRU

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If the point is to "save the planet" why are all these evs accelerating at insane capabilities? Shouldn't they be governed to be more economical?

My buddy burned through a new set of tires in 10k miles he was so lead footed.... Lol 😂
 

RU-05

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If the point is to "save the planet" why are all these evs accelerating at insane capabilities? Shouldn't they be governed to be more economical?

My buddy burned through a new set of tires in 10k miles he was so lead footed.... Lol 😂
I think for true environmentalists that makes sense, but to convince the general public, the performance aspect is very important.
 
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BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap

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Yeah but a model 3 shouldn't be at 3.5sec... I think 6 seconds would be acceptable
You need a compelling, exciting, sexy product to win over the hearts and minds of potential customers. If your average EV was a geeky golf cart, sustainable energy transportation would have never gained traction.
Also, like for like, an electric motor will out perform a gas engine. That's just physics.
 

theRU

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You need a compelling, exciting, sexy product to win over the hearts and minds of potential customers. If your average EV was a geeky golf cart, sustainable energy transportation would have never gained traction.
Also, like for like, an electric motor will out perform a gas engine. That's just physics.
I get all that, but put a 3 on par with a mustang not a Lambo. My point here is just to question has anyone done the accounting? No doubt evs are more efficient but if everyone's zooming around at max, what's the actual overall electric consumption? Just saying the hypocrisy there exists
 

fsg2

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Not everyone's ripping through tires after 10K miles. And those that are would probably be driving like fools in a gas car.

Just like everyday ICE drivers aren't driving around at whatever unnecessarily high top speed their vehicle is capable of all day long, Tesla drivers aren't drag racing to 62 every stoplight.
 
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RUevolution36

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I get all that, but put a 3 on par with a mustang not a Lambo. My point here is just to question has anyone done the accounting? No doubt evs are more efficient but if everyone's zooming around at max, what's the actual overall electric consumption? Just saying the hypocrisy there exists
A Mustang GT500 goes to 60 in <3.5 seconds. not really an apt comparison.
 

theRU

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Not everyone's ripping through tires after 10K miles. And those that are would probably be driving like fools in a gas car.

Just like everyday ICE drivers aren't driving around at whatever unnecessarily high top speed their vehicle is capable of all day long, Tesla drivers aren't drag racing to 62 every stoplight.
The insta torque in evs leads to excessively fast acceleration - I agree not everyone is doing it but without doing a study , what I see here in socal has a much higher % of people ripping off the line which is really where the tear on the tires comes. Once you are at speed not a huge difference between 60mph and 70mph, but if ur hitting 3 sec at every red light, instead of a normal 8-9 that's a big deal
 

mildone

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You need a compelling, exciting, sexy product to win over the hearts and minds of potential customers. If your average EV was a geeky golf cart, sustainable energy transportation would have never gained traction.
Also, like for like, an electric motor will out perform a gas engine. That's just physics.
This is not entirely wrong, just mostly wrong.

The way that EVs will wind up being widely adopted is by states forcing it on us or by continued high gas prices. Most people across the planet go their whole lives without owning a car capable of accelerating to 60 in even a sub 5s time, let alone a sub 3s time. They aren't buying a car because it's super quick - they just want to go from point A to point B efficiently and inexpensively, if possible.

As for performance, your statement is far too generalized to be true. An electric motor can indeed out-perform an ICE. But only under constrained situations. You need to define "outperform" pretty narrowly for your statement to be true.

In cars actually built to perform their best in a test of speed and handling and endurance (i.e. performance), EVs are non-competitive with ICEs or hybrids. Formula One has hybrid gas/electric engines and is far faster over a much longer distance than Formula E (pure EV racing). NASCAR has pure ICE engines and would crush any EV in the Indy 500 race, or other similar long distance races performed at very high average speeds.
 
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theRU

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A Mustang GT500 goes to 60 in <3.5 seconds. not really an apt comparison.
Lol you really have to hang onto every detail instead of getting the conceptual intent behind a statement.... Not every mustang is a gt500, and certainly aren't 50k price point. The 3 is supposed to be a sedan comparable to 3 series...not an m3.
 

mildone

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The insta torque in evs leads to excessively fast acceleration - I agree not everyone is doing it but without doing a study , what I see here in socal has a much higher % of people ripping off the line which is really where the tear on the tires comes. Once you are at speed not a huge difference between 60mph and 70mph, but if ur hitting 3 sec at every red light, instead of a normal 8-9 that's a big deal
Heat/friction is what wears tires. The more of it, the faster they wear. It's why bad alignment can prematurely wear tires, the treads push across the road rather than rolling, which creates way more friction and heat. Improperly inflated tires can also generate more heat leading to greater tire wear.

If driving really fast, cornering and braking will heat up and thus wear tires more quickly than straight-line acceleration or constant straight-line speeds. I mean, unless one is lighting up the tires during acceleration (which is dumb because it's slow unless one is engaged in warming the tires prior to a race in which case tire wear isn't a concern).

Straight line speed does play a role, however. The faster the car is going, the more friction and heat is generated and the faster the tires wear. Might not be super obvious at speeds between 60 and 70. But drive at 150 for a while and the tires will wear very quickly, greatly reducing the tread life of the tires.
 

theRU

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Heat/friction is what wears tires. The more of it, the faster they wear. It's why bad alignment can prematurely wear tires, the treads push across the road rather than rolling, which creates way more friction and heat. Improperly inflated tires can also generate more heat leading to greater tire wear.

If driving really fast, cornering and braking will heat up and thus wear tires more quickly than straight-line acceleration or constant straight-line speeds. I mean, unless one is lighting up the tires during acceleration (which is dumb because it's slow unless one is engaged in warming the tires prior to a race in which case tire wear isn't a concern).

Straight line speed does play a role, however. The faster the car is going, the more friction and heat is generated and the faster the tires wear. Might not be super obvious at speeds between 60 and 70. But drive at 150 for a while and the tires will wear very quickly, greatly reducing the tread life of the tires.
Proving my point actually. Excessively fast Acceleration and hard braking are the easiest ways for normal drivers to increase tire wear through driving. Yes speeds and cornering play a role to your point, but if you are driving on local roads and staying with the lines, taking turns at 70 vs 60 or 65 won't be where you kill your tires. Going stop light to stop light with 3 sec acceleration will
 

Knight Shift

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Cool. That way, the entire car gets done evenly.
Firefighters learn about the fire triangle (some use the tetrahedron) in the fire academy, which includes fuel, oxygen (via air) and heat. With the tetrahedron, the fourth part is the exothermic chain reaction sustains the fire and allows it to continue until or unless at least one of the triangle elements is eliminated. Putting water on a metal fire results in the fire getting hotter or exploding when water is applied. So this principle for EV battery fires is basically the same principle as putting a lid on a frying pan fire-cutting off the oxygen supply.
 

mildone

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Proving my point actually. Excessively fast Acceleration and hard braking are the easiest ways for normal drivers to increase tire wear through driving. Yes speeds and cornering play a role to your point, but if you are driving on local roads and staying with the lines, taking turns at 70 vs 60 or 65 won't be where you kill your tires. Going stop light to stop light with 3 sec acceleration will
All depends on the corners and the speeds.

There's a section of Route 31, a handful of miles north of the Flemington circle, where it's two lanes and winds through some pretty tight sweepers that, in the right car, can be taken pretty fast (over 100mph), putting a ton of energy through the tires. Not too many people take those turns at even 60-70 and if they do, it's putting lots of energy through the tires. Pretty sure it's quite a bit more than the load from a 3s 0-60 run.

I love those curves, incidentally.

The state and local police patrol that section pretty heavily, should anybody be considering driving it at extralegal speeds. Naturally, I always adhere closely to all posted speed limits and advise others to do the same.
 

theRU

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All depends on the corners and the speeds.

There's a section of Route 31, a handful of miles north of the Flemington circle, where it's two lanes and winds through some pretty tight sweepers that, in the right car, can be taken pretty fast (over 100mph), putting a ton of energy through the tires. Not too many people take those turns at even 60-70 and if they do, it's putting lots of energy through the tires. Pretty sure it's quite a bit more than the load from a 3s 0-60 run.

I love those curves, incidentally.

The state and local police patrol that section pretty heavily, should anybody be considering driving it at extralegal speeds. Naturally, I always adhere closely to all posted speed limits and advise others to do the same.
My point is if you are on a road designed for 65 and you drive "hard" - let's call it 15 over, you are wearing your tires faster but it's not that extreme. The stop light to stop light is realistically the most easy way to effect tire life for most drivers. If a normal acceleration is 10 seconds and lead foots go 5 that's a big deal. That's also a less extreme scenario than going 100 in 65 zone with curves.

I regularly see Tesla's beating sports cars off the line and will witness it 6-7 times from stop to stop on stretches of road from the same car... It's very common. Everyone gets that tesla and they like getting their rears pushed into the seats.

You want to take cars on track and squeel the tires in turns - yes you kill the wear rates. That's not day to day driving though. That's all I'm pointing out.

There's gonna be a ton of hubbies out there questioning their wives when the tires are bald in half the expected life span.
 

Rutgers Chris

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All depends on the corners and the speeds.

There's a section of Route 31, a handful of miles north of the Flemington circle, where it's two lanes and winds through some pretty tight sweepers that, in the right car, can be taken pretty fast (over 100mph), putting a ton of energy through the tires. Not too many people take those turns at even 60-70 and if they do, it's putting lots of energy through the tires. Pretty sure it's quite a bit more than the load from a 3s 0-60 run.

I love those curves, incidentally.

The state and local police patrol that section pretty heavily, should anybody be considering driving it at extralegal speeds. Naturally, I always adhere closely to all posted speed limits and advise others to do the same.
Know this stretch well, there was a light rain last weekend which took the joy out of going through there in my model 3
 
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