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OT: FDA Calls For Halt On J&J Vaccine

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SIAP: My kid (EMT) just told me that there's a patient at JFK Hospital (Edison) today that was admitted with serious COVID symptoms who has been fully vaccinated for over two weeks now. And that news vans are all over the place covering the "story".

Not sure which vaccine, or how accurate that info is.
Perhaps one of the unlucky 5%. Remember these aren't 100% effective but I'll take my 94.5% chance. Even if that made me feel like I aged 40 yrs. over the course of an hour nap. Now I know how Rip Van Winkle felt after his nap, sore as hell with joint and muscle pain.
 
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Posted this already on current events..the J&J vax is way less effective than the other 2..people should be choosy
Wrong, as usual. The J&J trials were conducted at a later time in different populations experiencing the more transmissible variants, so the efficacy of preventing COVID symptoms may simply be a function of the population tested. Also, the efficacy in preventing COVID symptoms is a far less important measure of the success of the three US authorized vaccines than the effectiveness in preventing hospitalizations and deaths, which all three did a 100% job of in their trials. In the real world, there will likely be a handful of hospitalizations and deaths as we vaccinate 100s of milliions vs. the tens of thousands in the trials, but essentially 100% prevention of hospitalization and death is pretty damn impressive.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/22/health/covid-vaccines-prevent-death/index.html
 
No, J&J and AZ are not dead/weakened COVID viruses, they're inactive adenoviruses carrying the DNA, which our cells use to make the CV spike protein antigen to stimulate the body's immune response to that antigen, so that if the "real" CV infects the host, the body is prepared with antibodies and T/B cells to fight the virus. The mRNA vaccines short circuit this loop by delivering the actual mRNA to trigger production of the virus's spike protein.

For all three vaccines, they're simply delivering genetic material our cells use to make the spike protein, triggering the immune response, rather than the weakened/dead virus approach, which essentially delivers the actual antigen (the spike protein on the actual virus) to trigger the immune response. The DNA or mRNA simply drive the immune system response - they are not involved in any kind of mutagenic response (that's been tested) in the body at all, so cancers would not be expected.

Furthermore, these new vaccines are on the verge of becoming the most closely studied vaccines in history, with tens of millions and now hundreds of millions of people having been vaccinated in just months - and this rare side effect in about 1 in 1MM people is actually strong evidence that the vaccine safety monitoring system (VAERS) is working nearly perfectly. Clinical trials with 20-40K people can only "see" side effects that are present in 1-2 per 40K or so, which is the equivalent of 50 per 1MM, so we should consider it a huge positive that we can now see side effects in the range of 1 in 1MM. IMO, this should actually give people even more confidence in getting these vaccines.

Lastly, explain for me your calculus here. I think you're close in age to me (50-64), meaning you're chances of dying from COVID are roughly about 4300 per 1MM (~90K dead in ~60MM people in that age group, of which about 35% have likely been infected or 21MM) if you become infected (much higher death rate if you get symptomatic COVID) and your chances of being hospitalized are about 3-4X that or about ~15,000 per 1MM. On the flip side, your chances of being hospitalized if you from COVID if you get vaccinated are very close to zero and your chance of dying are zero, while the risks of being vaccinated are at most a serious side effect in 1 in 1MM people (if this clotting side effect is tied to the vaccine). I simply don't understand, looking at the comparative risk/benefit of the vaccine, how anyone in our age group (and anyone, really, as these comparisons are still way positive for the vaccine even for 20 year olds) would not jump at getting accinated.

The DNA and mRNA do not simply drive the immune response. A dead Covid virus would drive it but we can't figure that out. The DNA/mRNA program the vaccinated cells to generate Covid external proteins that then drive the "natural" immune response. Which is exactly what I've been saying all along. If these DNA or mRNA instructions get corrupted then there's no telling what the vaccinated cell will create. Or if they create anything or what that created thing may cause in 20 years. You have added nothing to the discussion I've been having except to see yourself inject a couple thousand characters to attract attention - as usual.

I'll worry about my decision making and you stick to providing me those infallible weather forecasts. I forgot to Ignore you after the weather threads went away. And I'll unignore you when they're back. For entertainment.
 
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I took a vacation from these boards for a while because of the insults, so perhaps I missed a lot. I don't understand vitriol on either side. That said, however, in my personal observation and experience, the virtue signalers seem to be more vocal and critical of those who don't want to get the vaccine (or who are waiting). It's their choice.

Maybe I'll go on vacation from the board again.
Please stay
 
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We can all get along even if we don't share the same view on whether we personally have/will get vaccinated or will not. Oddly, don't see the people who have chosen not to get vaccinated throwing stones at those who go vaccinated or virtue signaling.
Uh
 
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That's because there simply aren't any anti-vaxx "stones to throw." The risk/benefit calcuations for getting vaccinated (see my other reply from a few minutes ago) are beyond overwhelming for the vaccine. Knowing that and knowing that the only way that this pandemic becomes prolonged is if not enough people get vaccinated, leading potentially to vaccine-eluding variants, the people on the side of science and ending the pandemic have every reason to "strongly encourage" all the anti-vaccine folks to get vaccinated for the good of society.
Sure there are potential stones to throw at those getting the vaccine--the results are based on limited data sets, there are (small) risks of adverse side effects, etc. I disagree with the "on the side of science" rhetoric. Fauci has soured a lot of people on the purported science with his mixed and muddled messages. Science is rarely settled, especially in a nascent technology--there used to be room for vigorous debate and discussion on positives and negatives. No more. The tech cartel is ensuring that only one side of the debate is presented.
 
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Wrong, as usual. The J&J trials were conducted at a later time in different populations experiencing the more transmissible variants, so the efficacy of preventing COVID symptoms may simply be a function of the population tested. Also, the efficacy in preventing COVID symptoms is a far less important measure of the success of the three US authorized vaccines than the effectiveness in preventing hospitalizations and deaths, which all three did a 100% job of in their trials. In the real world, there will likely be a handful of hospitalizations and deaths as we vaccinate 100s of milliions vs. the tens of thousands in the trials, but essentially 100% prevention of hospitalization and death is pretty damn impressive.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/22/health/covid-vaccines-prevent-death/index.html
Please tell me the percent effectiveness vs the other 2...are you telling me all the numbers ive been reading are fake news

You are insufferable
 
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No, I didn't. I did call out the ones who also refuse to vax, tho. Thats the way you get what you want, not by complaining on an RU message board. Otherwise, put the mask back on and take your chances with the gov.

And you just (rightfully) admitted there was no one size fits all lockdown approach; the states varied greatly on their approaches based on their own circumstances.
Your argument is even more incomprehensible.

So if someone complained because they thought that the steps taken to react to the virus (lockdowns) were wrong, somehow that means to you that they aren’t allowed to complain about the same authorities taking other steps to react to the virus?

They are being consistent and, considering they were right with their first complaint, should have gained credibility not lost it. Unfortunately, you are too entrenched in your position.
 
Just stay away from the Politics board. I have and between that and the Ignore button the board if just fine.
I came back when Winsatt started trending and there was more recruiting buzz. That's why I am here. Would be fine if these threads were confined to the loony bin that is the CE Board--just seeing the titles below of "Similar Threads" confirms that is not a forum I want to be part of.

Go RU!!!!
 
You throw a lot of insults around for someone who isn’t informed enough to know that by now the evidence has shown that states that locked down did no better, and in some cases worse, than states that didn’t.
Surely if the states that did equal or worse with the lockdowns had stayed open, the death rates would have been lower. Makes perfect sense.
 
SIAP: My kid (EMT) just told me that there's a patient at JFK Hospital (Edison) today that was admitted with serious COVID symptoms who has been fully vaccinated for over two weeks now. And that news vans are all over the place covering the "story".

Not sure which vaccine, or how accurate that info is.
Story linked below. Person vaccinated with the J&J vaccine came down with COVID 25 days after being vaccinated and is in critical condition at JFK. As I just posted, this was bound to happen for a handful of people - almost like the clotting side effects. Clincal trials showed no hospitalizations for 20-40K patients (which equates to somewhere less than 25 in 1MM), but that won't detect a hosp/death rate that is 1 in 1MM. Also, note that the J&J clinical data considers full protection to be after 28 days post-vaccination, not 25 days, so the story is slightly misleading.

https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2021...early-a-month-after-receiving-jj-vaccine.html
 
Your argument is even more incomprehensible.

So if someone complained because they thought that the steps taken to react to the virus (lockdowns) were wrong, somehow that means to you that they aren’t allowed to complain about the same authorities taking other steps to react to the virus?

They are being consistent and, considering they were right with their first complaint, should have gained credibility not lost it. Unfortunately, you are too entrenched in your position.
Nothing you said there is accurate. Don't waste my time responding anymore.
 
Please tell me the percent effectiveness vs the other 2...are you telling me all the numbers ive been reading are fake news

You are insufferable
I'd far rather be insufferable than wrong all the time. You're wrong on this. Own it. Read the link I provided - the 3 trials (Pfizer, Moderna and J&J) were not done head to head with the same population at the same time, so comparing efficacy against COVID symptoms is inappropriate, even though laymen do it all the time. They shouldn't.
 
I don't agree with you on a lot of things, but I agree with you here. However, people's results will vary.
It's not just sugars, it is all of the crap, highly processed foods, including chips, bread, and other bad carbs that do a lot of people in. You can't out-exercise a bad diet. While some pinhead will chime in and disagree, for insulin-resistant people, it is not as simple as calories-in-calories out. Sure, calories matter, but for people who are insulin-resistant, eating bad carbs, highly processed food, and food that contain the "hateful eight" oils trigger a vicious cycle of hunger and over-eating.
The carnivore diet has been a huge blessing for many insulin dependent people. Oddly, however, know-it-all Bill Gates is on a mission to eliminate meat from richer countries in favor of artificial, plant-based meat, which is full of all sorts of garbage. Just look at Bill Gates--does he look like the picture of health? The guy should stay in his lane of selling buggy, virus-laden crappy software.
BGDS
 
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Dude you bring norhing but insults to this thread and everyone knows it

Everyone knows you bring nothing to any thread off the basketball board, period.

Not only do they know it, they've told you directly. So many times. Try listening?
 
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Perhaps one of the unlucky 5%. Remember these aren't 100% effective but I'll take my 94.5% chance. Even if that made me feel like I aged 40 yrs. over the course of an hour nap. Now I know how Rip Van Winkle felt after his nap, sore as hell with joint and muscle pain.
Yeah but they also said for the 5% it would be much less severe. Who knows. I don't.

Also, I thought the folks at the top including DF said InK was like 80% at full..not 95%. So there's that too.
 
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I'd far rather be insufferable than wrong all the time. You're wrong on this. Own it. Read the link I provided - the 3 trials (Pfizer, Moderna and J&J) were not done head to head with the same population at the same time, so comparing efficacy against COVID symptoms is inappropriate, even though laymen do it all the time. They shouldn't.

So you are saying Yale is providing fake stats

Your arrogance as usual makes you look bad

Mr know it all..the same guy who proclaimed Covid wasn't going to be a big deal
 
Surely if the states that did equal or worse with the lockdowns had stayed open, the death rates would have been lower. Makes perfect sense.
Nice straw man you built there. Maybe someday you will be smart enough to respond to something I actually wrote instead of invented in your head.
 
Nice straw man you built there. Maybe someday you will be smart enough to respond to something I actually wrote instead of invented in your head.

Wow, you must be a genius, being that you invented something in his head.
 
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FWIW... I had the JnJ 2 weeks ago Wednesday. aside from the usual bitch of a headache many reported... no real side effects

im just some average middle-aged white guy...... i wouldn't worry too much. i figure 99% chance it probably helps 95%....... so, why not -- blood clots, hit by a bus, die of ass-cancer tomorrow... life has risks;
 
Wow, you must be a genius, being that you invented something in his head.
C’mon, you couldn’t even handle your own posts effectively, you shouldn’t be jumping into other people’s to compound your stupidity.
 
Sure there are potential stones to throw at those getting the vaccine--the results are based on limited data sets, there are (small) risks of adverse side effects, etc. I disagree with the "on the side of science" rhetoric. Fauci has soured a lot of people on the purported science with his mixed and muddled messages. Science is rarely settled, especially in a nascent technology--there used to be room for vigorous debate and discussion on positives and negatives. No more. The tech cartel is ensuring that only one side of the debate is presented.

If you want to debate, bring it. I've laid out the risks/benefits for vaccines pretty clearly, as have many others, based on publicly available data from the trials and the real world since authorization. Show me any analysis which is not a slam dunk for vaccination, except for children, where the counterargument is low risk from COVID, but the vaccine argument is to prevent more cases and the potential for evolution of vaccine-eluding variants - I still think the argument for vaccinating children is strong, but clearly not as strong as for other groups. I'll wait.
 
If you want to debate, bring it. I've laid out the risks/benefits for vaccines pretty clearly, as have many others, based on publicly available data from the trials and the real world since authorization. Show me any analysis which is not a slam dunk for vaccination, except for children, where the counterargument is low risk from COVID, but the vaccine argument is to prevent more cases and the potential for evolution of vaccine-eluding variants - I still think the argument for vaccinating children is strong, but clearly not as strong as for other groups. I'll wait.
So what is it Numbers? Do the vaccines such as Pfizer /Moderna/ J& J protect you enough to be able to eat in a restaurant which separates it’s tables.
 
Why wasn't she wasn't already vaccinated if she had predisposed conditions ?

I don't think anyone's antiVaxx here ITT

You got it backwards though, they scared cats all along wearing their 4 masks should continue to stay home

The rest of us have been out and about and unmasked as much as possible.
That last line...right there! Other than masks, where absolutely required by a PRIVATE OWNER, it has been as close to normal as can be. Acting this way in NO WAY makes you an “anti-vaxxer” (add it to the growing list of annoying “cool” terminology...barf!)
 
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The DNA and mRNA do not simply drive the immune response. A dead Covid virus would drive it but we can't figure that out. The DNA/mRNA program the vaccinated cells to generate Covid external proteins that then drive the "natural" immune response. Which is exactly what I've been saying all along. If these DNA or mRNA instructions get corrupted then there's no telling what the vaccinated cell will create. Or if they create anything or what that created thing may cause in 20 years. You have added nothing to the discussion I've been having except to see yourself inject a couple thousand characters to attract attention - as usual.

I'll worry about my decision making and you stick to providing me those infallible weather forecasts. I forgot to Ignore you after the weather threads went away. And I'll unignore you when they're back. For entertainment.
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Yeah but they also said for the 5% it would be much less severe. Who knows. I don't.

Also, I thought the folks at the top including DF said InK was like 80% at full..not 95%. So there's that too.
I figure if I could survive growing up around 5 superfund sites in Somerset county, anything they stick in me ain't got nothing on that. Hell we used to ride our 3 wheelers through Union Carbide where there'd be green, blue and orange pools. Up by the Chimney Rock Quarry there was a place we called the Moon scape. I've been chased by more Rent a Cops in 4 x 4's than I can count.
 
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