OT: growing grass

[DennisHajekRC84]

You can lime and seed at the same time not a problem. But you cannot seed at the same time as pre-emergent, it will prevent the seeds from germinating. If you put the pre-emergent down you will need to wait 6 weeks before seeding. Pre-emergent should be down already, I usually get mine down around the 3rd week of March if weather permits. I do not use Scotts products, but if you look at their site it also says the pre-emergent should be down no later than the first week of April.

yeah guys...I figured on not being able to over-seed and do pre-emerge....problem with putting it down sooner is I just couldn't get onto the back yard between snow and the swampiness. Couldn't even walk around 2/3 yard much less ride the tractor or push the spreader. This spring sucks for getting things done outside. THANKS ALL for the feedback. Pretty much what I thought.

 

[rurichdog]

You can lime and seed at the same time not a problem. But you cannot seed at the same time as pre-emergent, it will prevent the seeds from germinating. If you put the pre-emergent down you will need to wait 6 weeks before seeding. Pre-emergent should be down already, I usually get mine down around the 3rd week of March if weather permits. I do not use Scotts products, but if you look at their site it also says the pre-emergent should be down no later than the first week of April.

With the late snows and cold weather, you can get away with putting down pre-emergent later. The crabgrass doesn't germinate until soil temps come up to 45-50 degrees. Put down your pre-emergent too early, and there are no germinating seeds to kill. The pre-emergent will be washed out & ineffective when the late-bloomers start germinating and you still end up with lawn weeds.

 

[CodyRU]

Question for the lawn experts . Moved into a house last year with nice sod in the front yard. In the fall the sod slowly stopped growning and went into hibernation mode. But a "normal" darker colored grass that i guess i mixed in kept growing, leaving me with an uneven and multicolored lawn. Its only gotten worse since then. My sod is still winter brown but the other grass is green and much longer

Is there something i should put down to kill off the other grass (I'm almost positive its not a weed, just different species of grass), or will it work itseld out once the sod gets growing again?

 

[phs73rc77gsm83]

Question for the lawn experts . Moved into a house last year with nice sod in the front yard. In the fall the sod slowly stopped growning and went into hibernation mode. But a "normal" darker colored grass that i guess i mixed in kept growing, leaving me with an uneven and multicolored lawn. Its only gotten worse since then. My sod is still winter brown but the other grass is green and much longer

Is there something i should put down to kill off the other grass (I'm almost positive its not a weed, just different species of grass), or will it work itseld out once the sod gets growing again?

A selective herbicide such as Mesotrione will control creeping bentgrass and poa annua, along with some other weeds and some undesirable turf species. But it’s very hard to eliminate one species of turf grass from a stand while keeping others. Usually one might consider a non-selective herbicide and nuke the whole thing then reseed, or if you don’t want to be that drastic, you could try overseeding with the desireable type and it may crowd out the non desireable grass over time. Kentucky blue grass spreads, rye and turf type tall fescue and fine fescue do not. Depends on how much you care and how much time you want to invest. Be aware with a non selective herbicide such as roundup, it will kill everything so a renovation of the spot, spots, or lawn would be needed. Lots of work and time.

 

[KevH]

I’d get a soil test from Rutgers. They’ll recommend soil amendments. You can try to kill the moss but if there are underlying soil problems it’ll just come back.

Exactly. Moss issues are a sign of poor soil conditions and/or poor drainage. How's the drainage in that area? Is the soil high in clay content? Clay is notorious for draining slowly.

 

[KevH]

Triclopyr will kill ground ivy. Might take two or three applications. It is the Active ingredient in Orthos Weed be gone “purple” cco.You can get it at Lowe’s or Home Depot but make sure it is the one with triclopyr.

Thanks for this recommendation. Ground ivy is the worst.

 

[KevH]

Did that last October. Pennington seed , starter fertilizer . Watered twice a day for 3 straight weeks. Nothing came up. Will try Scott’s in Fall / October.

That's a head scratcher and frustrating as hell. Not sure if this would help in your case, but I usually put down a thin layer of peat moss after I seed and fertilize. It helps retain moisture, gives the seed something to "catch hold" in and adds some organic material to the soil. Speaking of soil, have you had yours tested?

 

[DJ Spanky]

That's a head scratcher and frustrating as hell. Not sure if this would help in your case, but I usually put down a thin layer of peat moss after I seed and fertilize. It helps retain moisture, gives the seed something to "catch hold" in and adds some organic material to the soil. Speaking of soil, have you had yours tested?

Yup, I do the exact same thing!

 

[RU#1fan]

That's a head scratcher and frustrating as hell. Not sure if this would help in your case, but I usually put down a thin layer of peat moss after I seed and fertilize. It helps retain moisture, gives the seed something to "catch hold" in and adds some organic material to the soil. Speaking of soil, have you had yours tested?

I have had bad luck with Pennington recently. Contacted them and they blew me off.
Looking for a new Seed brand.
To your point, I will get the soil tested. I am only a mile from the Rutgers Ag center on Ryders

 

[RUDead]

Triclopyr will kill ground ivy. Might take two or three applications. It is the Active ingredient in Orthos Weed be gone “purple” cco.You can get it at Lowe’s or Home Depot but make sure it is the one with triclopyr.

Thanks. i will give it a try.

 

[phs73rc77gsm83]

I have had bad luck with Pennington recently. Contacted them and they blew me off.
Looking for a new Seed brand.
To your point, I will get the soil tested. I am only a mile from the Rutgers Ag center on Ryders

For good seed you need to read the label on the bag and you’re looking for very low (like .05% or less))or no “other crop,” no “weed,” and no “noxious weed.” You can find seed with zero % of these in certified sod quality seed but it’s not cheap. You can get sod quality seed online from places including Super Seed Store, Preferred Seed, Pawnee Butte Seed and others. If you want to go crazy get seed from there. Otherwise look for seed with low percentages like I said. By the way,if you want to go nuts you can check the NTEP website for turf seed evaluation in different regions and conditions. They list cultivars, though, not “brands.” Rutgers is one of the test sites (actually have two) if you’re interested. Most people probably view sod quality and NTEP evaluations as overkill so like anything else, depends on your interest and wallet.

 

[phs73rc77gsm83]

Thanks. i will give it a try.

Two or three spray applications, about 14days apart. It’s a slow kill but will work. Good luck!

 

[RU#1fan]

For good seed you need to read the label on the bag and you’re looking for very low (like .05% or less))or no “other crop,” no “weed,” and no “noxious weed.” You can find seed with zero % of these in certified sod quality seed but it’s not cheap. You can get sod quality seed online from places including Super Seed Store, Preferred Seed, Pawnee Butte Seed and others. If you want to go crazy get seed from there. Otherwise look for seed with low percentages like I said. By the way,if you want to go nuts you can check the NTEP website for turf seed evaluation in different regions and conditions. They list cultivars, though, not “brands.” Rutgers is one of the test sites (actually have two) if you’re interested. Most people probably view sod quality and NTEP evaluations as overkill so like anything else, depends on your interest and wallet.

Thanks

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

Plants release 15-40% of their photosynthetically fixed carbon (sugars) into the soil through their roots.

The plant is busy all day, capturing sunlight, making sugars for itself, and then it dumps nearly 1/2 of those sugars into the soil. Why would a plant do this?

The plant is feeding the microbiology (beneficial bacteria & fungi) of the soil. In turn, the microbiology of the soil acts as an extension of the plant's root system, and supplies the plant with nutrients that the plant would be unable to attain on its own.

ALL synthetic fertilizers, pesticides, herbicides, and fungicides kill soil biology, cutting off the natural lifeline between plant and soil. The longer theses synthetics are applied, the more lifeless the soil becomes, and your plants become hooked, like drug addicts, to the chemicals applied.

So, instead of applying death to your lawns, apply life. Compost, compost, compost! Make your own from fall leaves. Get a delivery. Get it for free from your recycling center. Apply it whenever, where ever, can't over do it.

Lastly, is anyone fertilizing the forests and prairies? Are there weed problems in forests or prairies? No, because the soil biology and plants are sustaining each other. Weeds are a sign of poor soil health. Adding more synthetics only makes it worse. We've been falsely convinced that we need to intervene with nature in order to have a nice lawn. I say mimic nature.

 

[JMORC2003]

Plants release 15-40% of their photosynthetically fixed carbon (sugars) into the soil through their roots.

The plant is busy all day, capturing sunlight, making sugars for itself, and then it dumps nearly 1/2 of those sugars into the soil. Why would a plant do this?

The plant is feeding the microbiology (beneficial bacteria & fungi) of the soil. In turn, the microbiology of the soil acts as an extension of the plant's root system, and supplies the plant with nutrients that the plant would be unable to attain on its own.

ALL synthetic fertilizers, pesticides, herbicides, and fungicides kill soil biology, cutting off the natural lifeline between plant and soil. The longer theses synthetics are applied, the more lifeless the soil becomes, and your plants become hooked, like drug addicts, to the chemicals applied.

So, instead of applying death to your lawns, apply life. Compost, compost, compost! Make your own from fall leaves. Get a delivery. Get it for free from your recycling center. Apply it whenever, where ever, can't over do it.

Lastly, is anyone fertilizing the forests and prairies? Are there weed problems in forests or prairies? No, because the soil biology and plants are sustaining each other. Weeds are a sign of poor soil health. Adding more synthetics only makes it worse. We've been falsely convinced that we need to intervene with nature in order to have a nice lawn. I say mimic nature.

Never saw as nice lawns in my life as when I went to Lancaster, Pa last summer. Last week in July, middle of summer, vast rolling lawns of thick green. I suspect Amish lawn care strategies are similar to what you are describing.

 

[Scarlet Haze]

Well when you get your seed see if you can get the seed they use at Augusta (Masters). It is supplied by Rutgers and has been for ages. Gotta support the home team!!!!
http://www.nj.com/sports/index.ssf/2018/04/masters_2018_10_strange_new_jersey_connections_to.html

Augusta National photo

By Steve Politi | NJ Advance Media
AUGUSTA, Ga. -- If the grass always seems like it's greener at the Masters, know that Rutgers -- yes, Rutgers -- is responsible for making that happen.

Since the 1970s, rye grass seeds developed on the university's farms have been used everywhere at Augusta National, helping the famous golf course -- which, as always, will be the site of the Masters this week -- maintain its almost too-perfect visage for golf fans and the CBS cameras.


New Jersey is hundreds of miles away from this small Georgia city, but the state has its share of unique connections to the golf club.

A legendary but troubled New Jersey amateur once partied in the Crow's Nest, the top-floor lodging at the clubhouse. A businessman from Plainfield once owned the land that the course would later occupy. And a player in the 1869 Rutgers-Princeton game would become one of the founding members with legendary golfer Bobby Jones.

New Jersey won't have a golfer in the 2018 Masters, but there are plenty of connection. Scroll below to read about nine of them.

THAT PERFECT GRASS? IT WAS DEVELOPED AT RUTGERS
The tee boxes. The fairways. The rough. All that beautiful, dark green, dense turf was developed at Rutgers, which has provided the finest perennial ryegrass to Augusta National since the 1970s. The seeds are developed on a 30-acre farm located off Ryders Lane and at the university's 200-acre Adelphia farm in Freehold.

AP file photo

In short: Everything green that you see at the Masters this week are Rutgers rye grasses, except for the actual greens themselves (they're creeping bentgrass, in case you really want to impress your friends). The labs at Rutgers are continually improving on the seeds, with the newest and best varieties sent to Augusta National for the groundskeepers to use for overseeding in preparation for the winter.

 

[RU Golfer]

What do you use ? I know Scott’s prices have gotten beyond ridiculous.

I was using lesco products for years. Last year I switched over to Jonathan Green

 

[DennisHajekRC84]

So, instead of applying death to your lawns, apply life. Compost, compost, compost! Make your own from fall leaves. Get a delivery. Get it for free from your recycling center. Apply it whenever, where ever, can't over do it.

.

we compost everything at our house and my wife uses it everywhere. she's brought small trees and shrubs back from the dead. but any ideas for larger spreading projects? Can't see using a standard spreader for a 1/2 acre lawn/yard? Best way to spread with something you a person might have around their shed/garage? creative ideas?

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

we compost everything at our house and my wife uses it everywhere. she's brought small trees and shrubs back from the dead. but any ideas for larger spreading projects? Can't see using a standard spreader for a 1/2 acre lawn/yard? Best way to spread with something you a person might have around their shed/garage? creative ideas?

I use good old fashioned man power. Wheelbarrow and shovel. When I'm going to apply to my lawn, I'll wait until my lawn needs mowing, 1st spread compost, then use the mower to spread it around. I never bag clippings. And I've never had thatch b/c my soil is alive w microbial life

 

[Agoodnap]

Thanks for the reply. This is ground ivy. Worst weed i've ever seen. Just won't go away.

Yep, Ground Ivy is horrible. It's a bi-annual plant which means each plant lasts for two seasons. The plants propagate via seeds. So, I take several approaches with this guy. First, when the plants bloom set your mower to the lowest cut setting and cut the flowers every few days to stop any seeds from being produced. Someone above mentioned a type of chemical to use that may be effective but I'd also use Salt of Dicamba. Use the liquid form and it's often found in the typical weed products from Ortho or Bayer. Just read the label and make sure it's there. I'd also mix in the sprayer some Tenacity. You'll have to purchase Tenacity on-line and it will seem expensive but a little goes a long way. Tenacity is a pre AND post emergent and will kill and/or stop most weeds and grasses that aren't Northern turf grass. So, it will also work on all crab grass types. Tenacity will NOT stop Northern turf grass from germinating so you can use it when seeding.

Remember, your first method of attack on Ground Ivy to cut very low frequently when the plants are blooming. You do not want seeds to drop which will end up germinating next spring.

A note on Tenacity...it's very powerful and gets absorbed into the plants. As such, you won't be able to use any treated grass as mulch around any annual plants or they'll die. Once applied, it takes about 10 days or so and everything that isn't Northern turf grass will turn white. Your lawn will look funny for a week or two but the product works by interrupting the plants ability to produce chlorophyll and as a result they lose their green color.

 

[Agoodnap]

yeah guys...I figured on not being able to over-seed and do pre-emerge....problem with putting it down sooner is I just couldn't get onto the back yard between snow and the swampiness. Couldn't even walk around 2/3 yard much less ride the tractor or push the spreader. This spring sucks for getting things done outside. THANKS ALL for the feedback. Pretty much what I thought.

Read my other post in this thread. Tenacity is your friend.

 

[RU Golfer]

we compost everything at our house and my wife uses it everywhere. she's brought small trees and shrubs back from the dead. but any ideas for larger spreading projects? Can't see using a standard spreader for a 1/2 acre lawn/yard? Best way to spread with something you a person might have around their shed/garage? creative ideas?

If you have a big enough spreader it is not a problem. I have .4 acre and rip through mine in abut 15 minutes. I have a lesco 50 ib capacity rotary spreader, it is the same one that you see the lawn companies use to treat your lawn. The thing has a large coverage range which makes the job go quickly.

 

[rurichdog]

I've been fighting kyllinga for 2 seasons, going on 3. It arrived courtesy of my ex-neighbor's sketchy lawn service. I've seen good results from Dismiss, but the little bastards somehow come back every year.

 

[phs73rc77gsm83]

I've been fighting kyllinga for 2 seasons, going on 3. It arrived courtesy of my ex-neighbor's sketchy lawn service. I've seen good results from Dismiss, but the little bastards somehow come back every year.

http://plant-pest-advisory.rutgers.edu/battling-green-and-false-kyllinga-in-new-jersey-turfs/

It’s a tough one. Dismiss or Sedgehammer can be effective with multiple applications. See Rutgers turf link above.

 

[RUDead]

Yep, Ground Ivy is horrible. It's a bi-annual plant which means each plant lasts for two seasons. The plants propagate via seeds. So, I take several approaches with this guy. First, when the plants bloom set your mower to the lowest cut setting and cut the flowers every few days to stop and seeds from being produced. Someone above mentioned a type of chemical to use that may be effective but I'd also use Salt of Dicamba. Use the liquid form and it's often found in the typical weed products from Ortho or Bayer. Just read the label and make sure it's there. I'd also mix in the sprayer some Tenacity. You'll have to purchase Tenacity on-line and it will seem expensive but a little goes a long way. Tenacity is a pre AND post emergent and will kill and/or stop most weeds and grasses that aren't Northern turf grass. So, it will also work on all crab grass types. Tenacity will NOT stop Northern turf grass from germinating so you can use it when seeding.

Remember, your first method of attack on Ground Ivy to cut very low frequently when the plants are blooming. You do not want seeds to drop which will end up germinating next spring.

A note on Tenacity...it's very powerful and gets absorbed into the plants. As such, you won't be able to use any treated grass as mulch around any annual plants or they'll die. Once applied, it takes about 10 days or so and everything that isn't Northern turf grass will turn white. Your lawn will look funny for a week or two but the product works by interrupting the plants ability to produce chlorophyll and as a result they loose their green color.

Thanks for the reply. I will try the mowing method, but will avoid the nuclear option for now! I have been using organic methods for about 15 yrs but need some help on this one. Just won't go away. Soil in this area of the lawn also needs a lot of work which I will also do.

 

[RUSK97]

Lastly, is anyone fertilizing the forests and prairies? Are there weed problems in forests or prairies? No, because the soil biology and plants are sustaining each other. Weeds are a sign of poor soil health. Adding more synthetics only makes it worse. We've been falsely convinced that we need to intervene with nature in order to have a nice lawn. I say mimic nature.

Agree with your post in general, but historically, grassy meadows are not a part of our (assuming you're talking about NJ) ecosystem. The 'ideal lawn' with lush grass we picture is a construct of the English and there's nothing natural about a traditional or formal English garden. A perfect example is the one adjacent to the Eagleton Institute on the Douglass campus or the one at the Rutgers Gardens off Ryders Lane. A whole lot of human intervention goes into that. Left to its own devices, those gardens will enter primary and secondary succession to become mixed temperate forest again.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

Agree with your post in general, but historically, grassy meadows are not a part of our (assuming you're talking about NJ) ecosystem. The 'ideal lawn' with lush grass we picture is a construct of the English and there's nothing natural about a traditional or formal English garden. A perfect example is the one adjacent to the Eagleton Institute on the Douglass campus or the one at the Rutgers Gardens off Ryders Lane. A whole lot of human intervention goes into that. Left to its own devices, those gardens will enter primary and secondary succession to become mixed temperate forest again.

And I agree with your post in general, but my lawn isn't left to it own devices. In addition to composting, I also seed microclover in with a diverse mix of grass seed as needed. I will get some weeds, which i trim (not pull) to the ground as low as possible before they turn to seed. I won't win any prizes for best lawn, but it does look quite nice in mid summer. I should have also mentioned that I have to water much less than my neighbors who are all using synthetics.

 

[JoeRU]

Nice discussion but expected more on hydroponics from title

 

[B0ski]

I was using lesco products for years. Last year I switched over to Jonathan Green

Golfer - why the switch from Lesco? I just started using it last year and it was the first year I did not get crabgrass. My neighbor had it bad and it just stopped at my property line. Was it cost or something else?

 

[RUSK97]

Nice discussion but expected more on hydroponics from title

I too am surprised the convo didn’t go there. This is a damn serious discussion among some serious gardeners.

 

[Knight Shift]

Nice discussion but expected more on hydroponics from title

As a teenager, one of our neighbors was growing some pretty tall grass on a hill behind his house. Some enterprising kids from the neighborhood did him a favor and cut his grass for him. They never asked to get paid, and he never called the police.

 

[rurichdog]

I too am surprised the convo didn’t go there. This is a damn serious discussion among some serious gardeners.

It isn't quite so taboo and chuckle-inducing when the sitting governor has made legalization one of his term goals.

 

[RUSK97]

It isn't quite so taboo and chuckle-inducing when the sitting governor has made legalization one of his term goals.

True, but still. A thread about grass with over two dozen posts before any mention of cannabis? Noteworthy.

 

[Agoodnap]

Thanks for the reply. I will try the mowing method, but will avoid the nuclear option for now! I have been using organic methods for about 15 yrs but need some help on this one. Just won't go away. Soil in this area of the lawn also needs a lot of work which I will also do.

You'll be at this for a while if your plan to cut the flowers before seeds form. Stay diligent because every seed that escapes is likely a plan for two years.

You mention poor quality soil. I use a product called Aerify-Plus to treat my soil and this stuff works. My soil was mostly thick hard clay, devoid of any earthworms. Now I can fill a can for fishing within minutes. Worm holes are everywhere in the yard and I no longer have standing water. Give it a try before you order the 40 yards of compost over lay.

https://www.natureslawn.com/product/aerify-plus/

If you decide to purchase this product, don't buy the ready to spray container. The product comes out much too quickly and you'll have to run to apply (the video is bs...it comes out fast and before you know it your bottle will be empty). Get a hose end spray bottle that has a way for you to adjust the flow to any amount/gallon of water that you desire. About $10 at Home Depot.

 

[RUDead]

You'll be at this for a while if your plan to cut the flowers before seeds form. Stay diligent because every seed that escapes is likely a plan for two years.

You mention poor quality soil. I use a product called Aerify-Plus to treat my soil and this stuff works. My soil was mostly thick hard clay, devoid of any earthworms. Now I can fill a can for fishing within minutes. Worm holes are everywhere in the yard and I no longer have standing water. Give it a try before you order the 40 yards of compost over lay.

https://www.natureslawn.com/product/aerify-plus/

If you decide to purchase this product, don't buy the ready to spray container. The product comes out much too quickly and you'll have to run to apply (the video is bs...it comes out fast and before you know it your bottle will be empty). Get a hose end spray bottle that has a way for you to adjust the flow to any amount/gallon of water that you desire. About $10 at Home Depot.

Thanks, i was already looking into Humic acid products and was wondering if they really worked. Was going to buy Jonathan Green Lawn organic Fertilizer 8-3-1 which seems similar. I did some research but can't find anything specific breakdowns of ingredients so not really sure how different they are.

Have you had any experience with this? Its in granular form and available locally so it would be easier.

I also ordered some humic acid through amazon. 2lbs for $24. Will cover an acre.

 

[Agoodnap]

Thanks, i was already looking into Humic acid products and was wondering if they really worked. Was going to buy Jonathan Green Lawn organic Fertilizer 8-3-1 which seems similar. I did some research but can't find anything specific breakdowns of ingredients so not really sure how different they are.

Have you had any experience with this? Its in granular form and available locally so it would be easier.

I also ordered some humic acid through amazon. 2lbs for $24. Will cover an acre.

I've never used Jonathan Green products so I can't comment. From Natures Lawn I use Aerify Plus which is a product that both breaks down compacted soil and puts bacteria into the soil and as a combination helps to aerate and condition the soil. For fertilizer I use an organic product from Milorganite which I purchase at Home Depot. With the combination of Aerify Plus and Milorganite you'll have one of the nicest lawns in your neighborhood. This of course will only happen if you get rid of the weeds...I'd go with Tenacity, but that's just me...:)

Here is a link for Milorganite: https://www.homedepot.com/b/Outdoor...Lawn-Fertilizers/Milorganite/N-5yc1vZbx6bZ2qo

Here's a link for Tenacity...be sure to purchase a surfactant. You may be able to use your dish soap in place of the surfactant but you should be sure. The surfactant helps the Tenacity stick to the leaves which makes it much more effective. I use a 1.5 gallon pump sprayer to apply this stuff and only apply on days with ZERO wind/breeze so it doesn't carry.

EDIT: It looks like I can't link an Amazon URL for a product so here is the Google search...click the the hit for Amazon.
https://www.google.com/search?sourc...b..0.17.1006...0j0i131k1j0i10k1.0.47EMeb0KWDg

 

[RU Golfer]

Golfer - why the switch from Lesco? I just started using it last year and it was the first year I did not get crabgrass. My neighbor had it bad and it just stopped at my property line. Was it cost or something else?

The place where I had an account to buy it has moved, also my garage project that I did ate up a good portion of my lawn when all was said and done. With that said I could not get it in a small enough bag that I would now need due to the loss of turf from the project. I loved the Lesco products and there was nothing wrong with them. I am not a fan of Scotts and while looking for something new to use (where I can get a small enough bag) I was reading about the Jonathan Green "New American Lawn" Program and was intrigued so I figured I would give it a try.

http://www.jonathangreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/NAL-GUIDE-bklt-2018_web.pdf

 

[phs73rc77gsm83]

I've never used Jonathan Green products so I can't comment. From Natures Lawn I use Aerify Plus which is a product that both breaks down compacted soil and puts bacteria into the soil and as a combination helps to aerate and condition the soil. For fertilizer I use an organic product from Milorganite which I purchase at Home Depot. With the combination of Aerify Plus and Milorganite you'll have one of the nicest lawns in your neighborhood. This of course will only happen if you get rid of the weeds...I'd go with Tenacity, but that's just me...:)

Here is a link for Milorganite: https://www.homedepot.com/b/Outdoor...Lawn-Fertilizers/Milorganite/N-5yc1vZbx6bZ2qo

Here's a link for Tenacity...be sure to purchase a surfactant. You may be able to use your dish soap in place of the surfactant but you should be sure. The surfactant helps the Tenacity stick to the leaves which makes it much more effective. I use a 1.5 gallon pump sprayer to apply this stuff and only apply on days with ZERO wind/breeze so it doesn't carry.

EDIT: It looks like I can't link an Amazon URL for a product so here is the Google search...click the the hit for Amazon.
https://www.google.com/search?sourc...b..0.17.1006...0j0i131k1j0i10k1.0.47EMeb0KWDg

I totally agree with agoodnap’s recommendations for miloganite as an organic fertilizer and tenacity as a pre and post emergent herbicide (tenacity is a brand name of the active ingredient Mesotrione, which I mentioned earlier.) I would add that tenacity and all herbicides should be used carefully and only after reading and carefully following the label. The usage rate for tenacity is 4-8 ounces per acre diluted in at least 30gallons, and an annual max of 16 ounces per acre per year. This is not something you attach to a garden hose nosel and spray away. If you don’t have the equipment, time or inclination to be precise you can hire a licensed lawn care company. Overuse of Mesotrione, like other herbicides and fungicides can damage the environment and cause resistance management issues. Great tools if used appropriately.

 

[rurichdog]

Thanks, i was already looking into Humic acid products and was wondering if they really worked. Was going to buy Jonathan Green Lawn organic Fertilizer 8-3-1 which seems similar. I did some research but can't find anything specific breakdowns of ingredients so not really sure how different they are.

Have you had any experience with this? Its in granular form and available locally so it would be easier.

I also ordered some humic acid through amazon. 2lbs for $24. Will cover an acre.

Grain Feed 10-20% by weight
Calcium Sulfate dihydrate 1-2% by weight
Corn starch 1-2% by weight
Other 70-88%
Maybe that helps? Jonathan Green is based in Farmingdale, NJ so there's that too.

And the ingredient list for milorganite...human feces.

 

[RUDead]

Grain Feed 10-20% by weight
Calcium Sulfate dihydrate 1-2% by weight
Corn starch 1-2% by weight
Other 70-88%
Maybe that helps? Jonathan Green is based in Farmingdale, NJ so there's that too.

And the ingredient list for milorganite...human feces.

Thanks. Didn't know they were local. that's definitely a plus. I have used it before and it seemed fine. After all these responses and the research i've done i'm going to concentrate on breaking up the clay with humic acid for a hopefully permanent solution. Hate using all the synthetic chemicals.