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OT: How Long Before We Know If The Vaccines Work As Hoped?

A lot of crap. My family friends and I went to Gettysburg in the middle of Nov. . We rented a few houses where 6 stayed in my house with my other 2 family members and about 8 stayed in a house 3 doors down. Total of about 12 different households stayed in these 2 houses. My family and I traveled to NY the following weekend for Thanksgiving . Total of 4 households around the table. No one in either example got sick. No masks were worn and the social distancing thing did not exist either.
Agreed but if any one of you had it then many of you would have gotten it and all would be fine in a week give it take a week.
 
not just in producing antibodies, but actually making it safe for seniors to rejoin society?

side question,

if you are over 65 and get or have gotten one of the vaccines, will you or do you feel safe to go back to your pre covid life after your 2nd injection, or will you still lay low until X amount of time passes, and we start getting some large scale statistical feedback on how much protection the vaccines actually provide to those over 60, over 70, over 80, or whatever age group you are in?


When the survival rate goes from 99.7 to 99.8
 
that's exactly part of the problem. In Judy's press conference in November she said NJ would be getting 450,000 doses by the end of February....but there were 600,000 health care workers who needed it. She wasn't very clear if the 450,000 doses were a combo of dose 1&2 or if that was just dose 1.
Granted there are many health care workers opting not to receive the vaccine but there is certainly a shortage and I don't know how they will be giving all of these people both doses.

NY just opened up drive through vaccine stations. That is INSANITY. Yes, we know who the higher risk people are for anaphylaxis ( those with prior history of it or those with multiple drug allergies) but you have no idea if someone will randomly have a reaction....while driving home. I would not recommend to anyone that they drive through for their vaccination.



My sister worked at a drive through vaccination station in NJ earlier this week and I had the same question for her. She told me they vaccinate at the car, and they mark on the windshield what time each person was given the shot. The cars are then directed to a holding area of the parking lot where they need to wait at least 15 minutes and they are monitored by the personnel there. She said it was unbelievable how many "smart" people show up at a vaccination clinic wearing multiple layers of clothing that have to be removed prior to getting the shot. Really slows down the process
 
My sister worked at a drive through vaccination station in NJ earlier this week and I had the same question for her. She told me they vaccinate at the car, and they mark on the windshield what time each person was given the shot. The cars are then directed to a holding area of the parking lot where they need to wait at least 15 minutes and they are monitored by the personnel there. She said it was unbelievable how many "smart" people show up at a vaccination clinic wearing multiple layers of clothing that have to be removed prior to getting the shot. Really slows down the process
Haha, I was dressed to go to my office after my vaccination this morning. So I had to take my dress shirt off. Only took a second at least to do. But the vaccinator joked that they have had a lot of strippers in there so don't worry about it.
 
A few years back, a coworker of mine went on an African safari to Tanzania. He had to show proof of a malaria vaccine upon entry to the country.

Malaria is not contagious... you get it from a mosquito, and there really isn’t a vaccine readily available for it. It’s more common that you take a regime of anti-malaria pills before, during, and after your trip. I have done this many times in years past for trips in CA, SA, Asia and Africa. Fortunately the need to do so is diminishing. Your co-worker probably got travelers shots for yellow fever or dengue, but took anti-malaria pills.
 
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that's exactly part of the problem. In Judy's press conference in November she said NJ would be getting 450,000 doses by the end of February....but there were 600,000 health care workers who needed it. She wasn't very clear if the 450,000 doses were a combo of dose 1&2 or if that was just dose 1.
Granted there are many health care workers opting not to receive the vaccine but there is certainly a shortage and I don't know how they will be giving all of these people both doses.

NY just opened up drive through vaccine stations. That is INSANITY. Yes, we know who the higher risk people are for anaphylaxis ( those with prior history of it or those with multiple drug allergies) but you have no idea if someone will randomly have a reaction....while driving home. I would not recommend to anyone that they drive through for their vaccination.
They stay in their car in the spot for 15 minutes afterward just like anywhere else you get it. Once again in your hatred for NY you don't follow the facts.
 
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When the survival rate goes from 99.7 to 99.8

obviously you're too young to be at risk, and far too stupid to grasp survival rates for olders who get infected are no where near those numbers, but more like 30 times those or more.

big difference in a one in 5,000 chance, and a one in 12 or 20 or 30 chance, and those differences in survival rates are what are reality for different age groups once infected.

i would blame ignorance for your response, but since that's highly unlikely today, i can only blame stupidity. (better than my blaming malevolence or indifference, the other possibilities, don't you think).

sorry to be an ass, and i see you're a mod, but playing fast and loose with those numbers is bad acting, and very very deceptive as to how the virus affects different age groups.

that said, i think you are correct in the answer being in the survival rate of the vaccinated who contract the virus anyway, rather than the number of infections.

i am under the impression that the hope of the vaccine is to limit the damage of the infection in age groups and others pron to damage, rather than prevent infection altogether.

if incorrect, please correct me, and blame ignorance on my part.

imho, absent infections going to zero, the key to success and a return to normal society and a normal economy, will be if the olders who have been vaccinated but still get infected, can fight it off without severe damage or death, more like common flu percentages.

to have that answer, i'll assume we need sufficient scale of olders who have been vaccinated but still get infected after the fact, to study if any significant percentage of them are still dying or getting ICU level sick, or having any of the other severe negative responses to the virus.

to me, only then will we know how well the vaccines work, and how safe for olders a return to normal society is.

that said, infections going to zero would be nice too, even if we don't know if that's due to the vaccine or just herd immunity due to spread.

on a side note, many here talk of a mask wearing society even if the vaccine is shown to work as hoped, and all who want vaccinated get it.

i personally don't see that, and don't recall that being the case after the Spanish flu ran it's course. (but don't know what time frame those saying it are referring to either).

in full disclosure, i was somewhat a germophobe before covid, as far as washing hands more than most, and using precaution around keypads and public doorknobs and such.

that said, if the vaccine works or herd immunity through spread is reached, i don't see myself wearing a mask after that point, even if i do stay precautionary with keypads and public doorknobs and such.

old phobias die hard i guess.
 
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Going to be really weird going back to a massless society when the time comes. Remember in the very beginning wearing nitrile gloves and feeling like a complete fool hiding hands before the masks. Oy wore gloves for like 2 weeks. Said I would never wear a mask. Now a mask is like putting on you shoes you dont leave the house w/o it. We are going to be like John Travolta in The Boy in The Bubble getting his 1st whiff of fresh air when we hit the public
 
Going to be really weird going back to a massless society when the time comes. Remember in the very beginning wearing nitrile gloves and feeling like a complete fool hiding hands before the masks. Oy wore gloves for like 2 weeks. Said I would never wear a mask. Now a mask is like putting on you shoes you dont leave the house w/o it. We are going to be like John Travolta in The Boy in The Bubble getting his 1st whiff of fresh air when we hit the public

The problem with glove wearers and any infection, is they promote a false sense of security for those using them for longer than a one time exposure and promptly removing them. Unless you changed them after each exposure, or even washed them like normal hands after contact, these long term worn gloves just become a harbor for infection and transport those viruses/bacteria from location to location.
 
Going to be really weird going back to a massless society when the time comes. Remember in the very beginning wearing nitrile gloves and feeling like a complete fool hiding hands before the masks. Oy wore gloves for like 2 weeks. Said I would never wear a mask. Now a mask is like putting on you shoes you dont leave the house w/o it. We are going to be like John Travolta in The Boy in The Bubble getting his 1st whiff of fresh air when we hit the public
No issue for me dropping the mask ASAP.
 
OP- it will be interesting to find out when we start to feel fully safe again(not the anti maskers) also- when are we safe enough to go without masks? My fear is that many that get the vaccine, they will start to feel the right to not adhere to COVID protocol. And no one in public will know who has or has not been vaccinated
I feel safe now and im not a anti masker. Of course ive been out working amongst the citizens this entire time. I wear a mask indoors and i dont outdoors. I understand asking people to be responsible and wear a mask if sick is foolish cause a lot of people are assholes and wont do that but it would speed up the return to normal
 
Malaria is not contagious... you get it from a mosquito, and there really isn’t a vaccine readily available for it. It’s more common that you take a regime of anti-malaria pills before, during, and after your trip. I have done this many times in years past for trips in CA, SA, Asia and Africa. Fortunately the need to do so is diminishing. Your co-worker probably got travelers shots for yellow fever or dengue, but took anti-malaria pills.
Well I
obviously you're too young to be at risk, and far too stupid to grasp survival rates for olders who get infected are no where near those numbers, but more like 30 times those or more.

big difference in a one in 5,000 chance, and a one in 12 or 20 or 30 chance, and those differences in survival rates are what are reality for different age groups once infected.

i would blame ignorance for your response, but since that's highly unlikely today, i can only blame stupidity. (better than my blaming malevolence or indifference, the other possibilities, don't you think).

sorry to be an ass, and i see you're a mod, but playing fast and loose with those numbers is bad acting, and very very deceptive as to how the virus affects different age groups.

that said, i think you are correct in the answer being in the survival rate of the vaccinated who contract the virus anyway, rather than the number of infections.

i am under the impression that the hope of the vaccine is to limit the damage of the infection in age groups and others pron to damage, rather than prevent infection altogether.

if incorrect, please correct me, and blame ignorance on my part.

imho, absent infections going to zero, the key to success and a return to normal society and a normal economy, will be if the olders who have been vaccinated but still get infected, can fight it off without severe damage or death, more like common flu percentages.

to have that answer, i'll assume we need sufficient scale of olders who have been vaccinated but still get infected after the fact, to study if any significant percentage of them are still dying or getting ICU level sick, or having any of the other severe negative responses to the virus.

to me, only then will we know how well the vaccines work, and how safe for olders a return to normal society is.

that said, infections going to zero would be nice too, even if we don't know if that's due to the vaccine or just herd immunity due to spread.

on a side note, many here talk of a mask wearing society even if the vaccine is shown to work as hoped, and all who want vaccinated get it.

i personally don't see that, and don't recall that being the case after the Spanish flu ran it's course. (but don't know what time frame those saying it are referring to either).

in full disclosure, i was somewhat a germophobe before covid, as far as washing hands more than most, and using precaution around keypads and public doorknobs and such.

that said, if the vaccine works or herd immunity through spread is reached, i don't see myself wearing a mask after that point, even if i do stay precautionary with keypads and public doorknobs and such.

old phobias die hard i guess.
Well said and is logical in how you presented this to the board.
 
To me, this is an completely different question. And as we keep merging everything COVID so much info or discussion gets lost. I don’t even have time to weed through it.
Just like weather threads, I have no issue with multiple COVID threads, but the mods had made it clear they don't want multiple COVID threads. Until the last week or two, I guess. Hard to tell - they're also not moderating the main one at all, which is now filled with political crap, after they said that wouldn't be allowed.

Anyway, for anyone with vaccine questions, an awesome FAQ on everything you ever wanted to know about COVID vaccines, was published in the New England Journal of Medicine. Top notch effort.

https://www.nejm.org/covid-vaccine/faq
 
Just like weather threads, I have no issue with multiple COVID threads, but the mods had made it clear they don't want multiple COVID threads. Until the last week or two, I guess. Hard to tell - they're also not moderating the main one at all, which is now filled with political crap, after they said that wouldn't be allowed.

Anyway, for anyone with vaccine questions, an awesome FAQ on everything you ever wanted to know about COVID vaccines, was published in the New England Journal of Medicine. Top notch effort.

https://www.nejm.org/covid-vaccine/faq
IMO this stuff falls under the “different storm/event/game = new thread” as some of the questions/comments raised in these things are worthy of their own discussion.
 
Just like weather threads, I have no issue with multiple COVID threads, but the mods had made it clear they don't want multiple COVID threads. Until the last week or two, I guess. Hard to tell - they're also not moderating the main one at all, which is now filled with political crap, after they said that wouldn't be allowed.

Anyway, for anyone with vaccine questions, an awesome FAQ on everything you ever wanted to know about COVID vaccines, was published in the New England Journal of Medicine. Top notch effort.

https://www.nejm.org/covid-vaccine/faq

I like this section under whether or not the vaccine prevent infection:

“Second, findings from population-based studies now suggest that people without symptoms are less likely to transmit the virus to others. Third, it would be highly unlikely in biological terms for a vaccine to prevent disease and not also prevent infection. If there is an example of a vaccine in widespread clinical use that has this selective effect — prevents disease but not infection — I can’t think of one!”

It wouldn’t make sense given what we know about the virus for it to be able to fully or even partially replicate in the nose which lacks ACE-2 receptors. The only way this would make sense is if the virus has another method of infecting the body.
 
I like this section under whether or not the vaccine prevent infection:

“Second, findings from population-based studies now suggest that people without symptoms are less likely to transmit the virus to others. Third, it would be highly unlikely in biological terms for a vaccine to prevent disease and not also prevent infection. If there is an example of a vaccine in widespread clinical use that has this selective effect — prevents disease but not infection — I can’t think of one!”

It wouldn’t make sense given what we know about the virus for it to be able to fully or even partially replicate in the nose which lacks ACE-2 receptors. The only way this would make sense is if the virus has another method of infecting the body.

The nose does not lack ACE-2 receptors. In fact the nose is the one place most likely to still be infected despite being vaccinated, as was seen in controlled vaccine/virus dosing trials with macaques. The vaccine simply reduces the infections by a lot or totally, depending on how well the body responds to it by making the appropriate antibodies to stop an infection.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/08/200820102428.htm

For the study, depending on the biopsy sample, cells in the olfactory neuroepithelium had a 200-fold to 700-fold increase in ACE 2 proteins compared with other samples from the nose and trachea. Because the cells with high levels of ACE2 are associated with odor sensing, the researchers suggest that infection of these cells may be the reason some people with COVID-19 experience loss of smell.
 
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I have an appoint next week to get my first shot. More than likely I'll go back to the life I have right now. That is because of the current restrictions put upon us. My wife and I are both over 70 and do as much as we are allowed to do. Unfortunately, here in NY we cannot go to a restaurant and eat indoors at this time. So we call up and pick up from our local diner. We also take a 'Jersey Day' and drive over to have lunch indoors at a different place once a week. Might even stop in at Costco for some gas and a few items. Only thing stopping us is Cuomo and De Blasio.
Two of the greatest shills to ever be elected by the public to serve. What is funny is though most realize their ineptness they still would vote for them again.
 
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