Received summer associate offers from three firms in NY - Cahill, McDermott, and Willkie. I know you need much more info to help with a decision, but just curious if anyone has worked at any of these firms or has any insights they’d be willing to share. It appears Willkie might be the most prestigious, while McDermott offers the highest compensation if you’re a high biller. Thank you in advance!
OT: Law Firm Decision Help
- Thread starter RU23
- Start date
When in a similar position back in the day, I made the mistake of going to the firm with the highest comp. Ended up working for some d-head partner that must have taken his meds the day of the interview and fooled me. In retrospect, I should have been more focused on the practice area that I’m most interested in, the firm culture, the group I would be working with, and then the comp.
The Firm is currently available on Prime; don’t go with the one that inquires behind the scenes about your best offer, and beats it by 20%.
Not in the law field, but I'd have to agree with RUAldo on this one. Unless there is a desperate need for the higher compensation on your part, go with the one that "speaks" to you, more, and that offers the best challenge and opportunity to learn. YOU, with whatever level of smarts, charisma, and persistence you bring to the table, will be able to convert that experience into whatever comes next. Certainly, if you can find your way into a higher paying role with the great experience, that's cool, too.
Are all three equally as likely to reciprocate full time job offers subsequent to completing their summer associate program so that you have something in hand before you graduate?
The scope of experience you gain is probably the most important attribute, especially for your first job.
My Sister (RU Law Grad), took and passed the boards in NJ and NY. (successfully argued her Passing grade in Albany when they first failed her NY test.)
Always took the job that she liked doing, working for people she liked/respected working for.
She decided/found she LOVED litigating in Court.
She worked for large corporations and insurance companies in Court.
Did lots of Pro Bono and enjoyed being busy and not tied down to one place every day.
Her 3 Sons all became Attorneys.
She was the poster girl for the saying; "It's never work if you love/enjoy what you're doing.''
Always took the job that she liked doing, working for people she liked/respected working for.
She decided/found she LOVED litigating in Court.
She worked for large corporations and insurance companies in Court.
Did lots of Pro Bono and enjoyed being busy and not tied down to one place every day.
Her 3 Sons all became Attorneys.
She was the poster girl for the saying; "It's never work if you love/enjoy what you're doing.''
In addition to investigating the practice area, since this is also your prelude to full time employment, you should investigate the Associate Benefits and the required billable hour requirements.
When you’re first starting a career, compensation (while nice) is not the most important thing. Find the firm that is most likely to have the specialty you want and will nurture you. Plenty of time for wealth building in the middle part of your career.
I keep hearing people mention loans. What is this ?
Service Academies pay you to go to school for your undergrad degree.
Then they send you for post graduate degrees, where they continue to pay you.
When you are done getting all your desired academic degrees they give you the opportunity to build your resume while they still pay you.
About the time you turn mid 40's they allow you to retire or continue to work or use the built up resume to find another job.
Good Luck.
Service Academies pay you to go to school for your undergrad degree.
Then they send you for post graduate degrees, where they continue to pay you.
When you are done getting all your desired academic degrees they give you the opportunity to build your resume while they still pay you.
About the time you turn mid 40's they allow you to retire or continue to work or use the built up resume to find another job.
Good Luck.
My nephew graduates in the Spring. He had a Summer position and has had a job guarantee since May from some NYC firm.
That's pretty neat you know a good job is waiting for you I guess as long as you don't bomb out 3rd year.
Congrats and best wishes.
I did a lot of M&A work in my past and have worked with Cahill and Wilkie (more), not McDermott. Both firms were good on deals and all associates seemed overworked, but not as bad as other firms I worked with. I think many firms publish stats on what’s expected out of school (billable hours, networking, etc). So much depends on type of work and partners you get tied to. M&A/Transaction and Corporate attorneys seem to have worst lives. IP, Employment, SMPR, and Product Liability are hot areas that I don’t think are as killer as the others.
Oldest son went from McCarter English to cole shotz to Wilkie. Great $ and bonuses but a lot of hours. Make that ALOT of hours.
Anyone have any info on ansell, Grimm, Aaron in nj
Anyone have any info on ansell, Grimm, Aaron in nj
Problem is that you don’t know yet what you want to do. Law school is so broad it’s hard for most to focus on one area and know what you want to do. My kids sent out tons of job apps and went in interviews all over the place, both clerked for a year after graduating.
Because of NJ's quirky legal culture, many grads (including some quite outstanding ones) find themselves clerking for a year after law school. Firms figure that someone who's had a clerkship at least knows how to find the courthouse door and has had experience in writing -- a skill that law firms really want in young lawyers.
I have done M&A work with these law firms and know a little about them. Can’t go wrong with any of them as far as summer positions go - I would say Cahill is a smaller place than the other two and you are more likely to get a closer look from the people you work with for first year offers. Congrats on the offer and good luck with your endeavors wherever you wind up.
RU23 - Congrats on the offers! I'm a few years ahead of you, so not too far removed from remembering the huge relief that those summer offers represent.
Obviously, each firm has different practice areas in which it excels. I assume, based on this group of firms, that you are leaning towards corporate/transactional work. In NYC biglaw, the corporate departments get quite granular, and you'll generally work for a smaller practice area group within the corporate department (i.e. M&A, PE, Finance/Banking, Capital Markets, Asset Management, etc.). Additionally, you'll find once you're working that it's the group's reputation (more so than the firm as a whole) that affects your ability to develop business or move laterally or to an in house role.
Odds are, as a 2L, you don't really know which practice area to pursue within the corporate department, so you don't need to choose based on a particular practice area (unless I'm wrong here, in which case, do your research). Each of the Willkie, Cahill, and McDermott exist pretty much in the same reputational tier, in terms of transactional work (aside from bellwether practice groups) and they all pay lockstep.
This is what I know about those firms (and I'm just some guy):
Willkie is super fratty. High quality M&A work (probably better than the other two).
McDermott is a Chicago firm - consider what being at their non-HQ means. Beware of the blackbox bonus policy (while a few top billers may make above market; others may make below market - the hours in corporate biglaw are miserable, but there will be a gunners who live to work and claim those above-market bonuses. If that's you, great.) Good healthcare industry focus.
Cahill is solely a NY firm. Elite banking and capital markets, particularly bank-side. Lean staffing and demanding bulge bracket clients means rough(er) hours, but high prestige and exit opps in those groups.
It's very hard to determine over the course of a few zoom interviews, but ultimately go with where you're most comfortable with key people (think partners - there's a lot of turnover in the associate ranks) and the culture. They're all pretty similar though, and barring a disaster, you'll receive an offer from all of them.
It's a bummer COVID is going on, because the best part of summering is eating at a ton of steak houses all summer. Good luck!
Obviously, each firm has different practice areas in which it excels. I assume, based on this group of firms, that you are leaning towards corporate/transactional work. In NYC biglaw, the corporate departments get quite granular, and you'll generally work for a smaller practice area group within the corporate department (i.e. M&A, PE, Finance/Banking, Capital Markets, Asset Management, etc.). Additionally, you'll find once you're working that it's the group's reputation (more so than the firm as a whole) that affects your ability to develop business or move laterally or to an in house role.
Odds are, as a 2L, you don't really know which practice area to pursue within the corporate department, so you don't need to choose based on a particular practice area (unless I'm wrong here, in which case, do your research). Each of the Willkie, Cahill, and McDermott exist pretty much in the same reputational tier, in terms of transactional work (aside from bellwether practice groups) and they all pay lockstep.
This is what I know about those firms (and I'm just some guy):
Willkie is super fratty. High quality M&A work (probably better than the other two).
McDermott is a Chicago firm - consider what being at their non-HQ means. Beware of the blackbox bonus policy (while a few top billers may make above market; others may make below market - the hours in corporate biglaw are miserable, but there will be a gunners who live to work and claim those above-market bonuses. If that's you, great.) Good healthcare industry focus.
Cahill is solely a NY firm. Elite banking and capital markets, particularly bank-side. Lean staffing and demanding bulge bracket clients means rough(er) hours, but high prestige and exit opps in those groups.
It's very hard to determine over the course of a few zoom interviews, but ultimately go with where you're most comfortable with key people (think partners - there's a lot of turnover in the associate ranks) and the culture. They're all pretty similar though, and barring a disaster, you'll receive an offer from all of them.
It's a bummer COVID is going on, because the best part of summering is eating at a ton of steak houses all summer. Good luck!
Thank you so much for the comprehensive feedback!
Currently leaning litigation, potentially white collar defense, though I’m not at all sure. A couple more factors I’m considering are that I connected with the people at Willkie a little better, but I did have a prior relationship with a partner at McDermott who has been super helpful throughout this whole process. He does white collar and some crypto litigation, so having that existing relationship could be very valuable. Such a tough decision! Only got a few more days...thank you again, to everyone for the tips and well wishes!
White collar defense, eh? Reminds me of when a partner at a big law firm said I should go into defending clients from the IRS. He said, "They're very rich. . . and they're GUILTY!"
I WISH YOU GREAT SUCCESS AND HAPPINESS IN YOUR CAREER.
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