OT: Legalization of Marijuana in NJ

[lne001]

Wow, as a self-proclaimed expert in this field I'm sorry I got to this thread late. Rather than address the myriad issues raised I'll just personally testify. I became acquainted with cannabis in 1970 as a draftee in West Germany after graduating Rutgers and thoroughly enjoyed its influence. I've used it regularly from then till now, heavily actually. As far as addiction, I've stopped using it for numerous periods and never had physical difficulties as a result. On the other hand if I have it I use it, so it is clearly psychologically addictive (although as a hedonist I have several such pleasure addictions). I was using heavily right to when I retired at 50 as VP from a large eastern insurance company.

None of the above is an endorsement for cannabis use, and adolescents should not indulge until their brains are finished developing. For the past several years I have replaced smoking with vaping, and travel from time to time to Denver for concentrates. The prices for flower have dropped substantially to the point where they are about 50% of east coast prices; not much meat left on the bone for illegal cannabis suppliers out there.

 

[rufanpops]

Don't all of you know people who smoke weed when they wake up and continue to get high all day? They never run out because if they do the number one quest in their life is to acquire more.

That was me for twenty years, from wake til sleep...still did well in school and at work, never any problems...then a couple years ago I decided I didn't want to smoke pot anymore and I stopped, no problem, no withdrawl...now i'll smoke once in a while with friends but only a couple times a year

 

[lne001]

What do you mean by "if Hillary wins" ?
The betting houses in England are already paying off to those that bet on her winning the 2016 U.S. presidential election. Pay attention.

Liar liar. Ladbrokes is still taking bets (hell, you can put down money also on Pence, Ryan and Biden in case either of the gruesome twosome drop out).

What I found hilarious, however, is that they are taking money on the 2020 election already. Shoot me.

 

[wheezer]

Fine. Let's make a list of all the things that are addictive and make them illegal. I'd like to start by making coffee illegal.

----

See, there you have an addictive substance that the scientists are having trouble finding bad things it does, and finding some good..... coffee is here to stay.

 

[brgRC90]

Legalization is an ongoing experiment. I support it because pot is already widespread and prohibition obviously doesn't work. However, we really don't know what happens in the long run when you legalize it. I'd say it's still too soon to tell in Colorado but people should be watching what happens there for guide posts. Pot is a pretty mild drug and so I doubt it could ever lead to more problems than we have with drugs but that being said it does have negatives like all such mind altering drugs.

 

[formerlyknownasrutgers100]

Fine. Let's make a list of all the things that are addictive and make them illegal. I'd like to start by making coffee illegal.

I said it should be legalized u idiot, I just said it's addictive

 

[formerlyknownasrutgers100]

What are the physical withdrawal side effects from cannabis?

Paranoia, anxiety, not being able to sleep, depression, not being able to function, cold sweats it's nothing as severe as alcohol but doesn't mean there aren't effects

 

[Kbee3]

Liar liar. Ladbrokes is still taking bets (hell, you can put down money also on Pence, Ryan and Biden in case either of the gruesome twosome drop out).

What I found hilarious, however, is that they are taking money on the 2020 election already. Shoot me.

O.K.
SOME of the betting houses in England have paid off those who bet on Hillary.
Now, what odds are they giving those who wanna bet on Trump today ?

 

[formerlyknownasrutgers100]

I'm addicted to Game of Thrones.

Ban it.

Once again I didn't say ban it, I just said it's addictive but don't you have no response to any of my proof that it's addictive, probably because you can't refute it

 

[Kbee3]

I said it should be legalized u idiot, I just said it's addictive

If its addictive nature was a relevant factor to its legalization then why oh why is tobacco still widely available ?
Personally, I've always wondered why Rastafarians put up with this religious persecution.

 

[lne001]

O.K.
SOME of the betting houses in England have paid off those who bet on Hillary.
Now, what odds are they giving those who wanna bet on Trump today ?

7/2 for Trump. Hillary is 2/9 I believe. Joe Biden is 200/1.

 

[RU4Real]

What do you mean by "if Hillary wins" ?
The betting houses in England are already paying off to those that bet on her winning the 2016 U.S. presidential election. Pay attention.

Really? Bookies are paying off on an outcome that hasn't happened yet?

Yeah, that doesn't make sense.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

Paranoia, anxiety, not being able to sleep, depression, not being able to function, cold sweats it's nothing as severe as alcohol but doesn't mean there aren't effects

I don't know a single pot user that has ever suffered from any of those. Anyone else?

 

[Kbee3]

Really? Bookies are paying off on an outcome that hasn't happened yet?
Yeah, that doesn't make sense.

I agree. It doesn't make sense to me either.
But it's true. No mention of how often they do something like that.
But then it IS England.

 

[okieKnight908]

If its addictive nature was a relevant factor to its legalization then why oh why is tobacco still widely available ?
Personally, I've always wondered why Rastafarians put up with this religious persecution.

The powers that be use the addictive properties, in addition to the bs that it has no medicinal application, as a excuse to to keep it illegal, but it's just a huge gravy train for many steakholders and provides a way to funnel people into the criminal justice system.

For instance, I was arrested in Branchburg a number of years ago with 0.3gm of herb. I had to spend nearly $16,000 to keep out of Somerset County jail for 6 months. I wasnt going to enter PTI, because the whole stop was utter BS and the report BPD drummed up was riddled with lies, but, regardless, that's a ton of money for the court, DARE, lawyers, etc. Thats a tough train to derail.

 

[Kbee3]

Paranoia, anxiety, not being able to sleep, depression, not being able to function, cold sweats it's nothing as severe as alcohol but doesn't mean there aren't effects

I definitely recall suffering through all of that when my wife and I had our first big argument and she cut me off from the old in-out...in-out for a while.

 

[okieKnight908]

I don't know a single pot user that has ever suffered from any of those. Anyone else?

Check out: https://m.reddit.com/r/leaves/

A certain chort of cannabis users really struggle with addiction and staying off of it. I've known quite a few people in that boat. It's not the worst thing in the world, but it's not an innocuous substance either. Not a reason to keep it illegal though.

 

[topdecktiger]

Because,once again, the federal government is involved in something it was never supposed to be involved in.

That's not a legitimate response. What you are arguing is Nullification. The Federal government passes a law we (an individual state) don't like, so we will just unilaterally overturn it. That's not legal at all. By that logic, an individual state wouldn't have to obey Civil Rights laws.

1. Try explaining to a young kid why pot will get you locked up and your life possibly ruined and tobacco is legal.
2. It's not just the revenue generated. It's the resources wasted in pursuit of the sellers and the buyers.
3. If you cannot get on board...fine. It's just absurd to lock up others for what they smoke in the privacy of their own homes.

1. The reason marijuana is treated differently than tobacco is that the former can affect your behavior.
2. Most people agree with this.
3. Again, most people don't have a problem with legalization. What people have a problem with is the attempt of supporters to rationalize and minimize the affects of marijuana. Typically, people aren't as receptive to argument when the proponent is trying to fudge the details. If you want to get somewhere with legalization, stop harping on the effects of marijuana, and make a more reasonable case, like you did with waste of resources. Lead with your strongest point. When you get into this argument about the affects of marijuana, you are cutting off your nose to spite your face. You alienate people who would otherwise agree with you.

Something can be bad for you and still be legal.

 

[batts]

The real issue with addiction is that certain people suffer from anxiety and depression and have need to self-medicate. The need to self-medicate because of psychological problems is at the root of most mood altering addictions. Weed seems to be a much safer alternative to alcohol, heroin and pain killers for those who have the need to self-medicate.

 

[topdecktiger]

The real issue with addiction is that certain people suffer from anxiety and depression and have need to self-medicate. The need to self-medicate because of psychological problems is at the root of most mood altering addictions. Weed seems to be a much safer alternative to alcohol, heroin and pain killers for those who have the need to self-medicate.

Self-medicating itself is a problem. If you want to solve a problem, you solve a problem, not paper over it.

Again, this attempt to minimize addiction or other effects is self-defeating, for those who support legalization. You aren't going to get anywhere making that argument. There are dozens of stronger arguments to support legalization.

 

[batts]

Self-medicating itself is a problem. If you want to solve a problem, you solve a problem, not paper over it.

Again, this attempt to minimize addiction or other effects is self-defeating, for those who support legalization. You aren't going to get anywhere making that argument. There are dozens of stronger arguments to support legalization.

I agree. I'm just pointing out why people become addicted and that weed appears to be a safer alternative to other narcotics and alcohol. Other arguments in favor of legalization are fairly well covered in this thread.

 

[zappaa]

I went to school with tons of kids who kick themselves in the ass in retrospect because they became stoners, gave up sports and let their grades drop.
Most of them are scared to death their own kids will react the same way, and are doing everything they can to keep them from not trying it.

 

[batts]

I went to school with tons of kids who kick themselves in the ass in retrospect because they became stoners, gave up sports and let their grades drop.
Most of them are scared to death their own kids will react the same way, and are doing everything they can to keep them from not trying it.

You raise a legitimate argument against legalization, that being it will make its use more widespread to the public and our youth which can ruin lives. People who become life long stoners probably have underlying mental issues which make living a sober lifestyle difficult. Why else would someone want to be stoned every day of their lives?

 

[Kbee3]

I went to school with tons of kids who kick themselves in the ass in retrospect because they became stoners, gave up sports and let their grades drop.
Most of them are scared to death their own kids will react the same way, and are doing everything they can to keep them from not trying it.

This is the same sort of logic that was used by advocates for Prohibition and the 18th Amendment.
Look,don't smoke or drink if you don't want to. And tell your kids what you wish.
But how one can possibly defend a law prohibiting pot smoking is weird.
Do you really think you're saving more lives than you're ruining ?
Have we learned absolutely nothing from the whole Prohibition "experiment" ?

 

[AshSaturday]

You may not be smokin but there is something going on with you that I don't understand.

Not saying that there aren't positives for some on the Mary Jane but you can get high on exercise. There R a lot of mental health issues in my family that I don't seem to suffer from-in major part because I hit the treadmill and gym-and exercise. That norepinepherine (sp) does wonders.

By the way, I'm technically homeless in large part because Mom and dad smoked. Mom (RIP-a great person, Mom and RU fan) smoked and took psych meds much of her life. passed at 56. When that happens life plans get altered (her Mom passed in her 30s and Grandma with whom she lived-passed Moms frosh year as she started RU Pharma-TOUGH for a women to get into those early years. She needed to quit and regretted her whole life. Mom waited to treat symptoms and literally was burning up from her metastatic cancer.

Dad smoked early on and coincidentally worked in an small enclosed pharmacy (serving many in the Rutgers community including the Sheas, Dick Anderson, Fred Gruninger, and others). The rude owner smoked illegally in the confined space and for the few years dad was there he developed a lung tumor that eventually spread after lung one was taken out.

Uncle passed 6 or so weeks later and my sister (whose mental health was butter after Mom passed) was "coincidentally" part of a "layoff" after Merck had to fetch her on the West Coast after a bipolar episode made her future living by stealing much of my inheritance. She smoked. Instead of purchasing my house out cash, wound up with a predatory loan at 8.3% (also loan requirements "changed" right after Lehman collapsed) and one way or another I wound up losing all.

They say pot has ~10-15 times some of the ingredients of cigarettes...

 

[Ataylor1989x]

Really? Bookies are paying off on an outcome that hasn't happened yet?

Yeah, that doesn't make sense.

It does.....remember what happened last year with Leicester City FC......some people got on ridiculously high odds before the season, and as the team came closer and closer to the title, the betting houses payed people off at lower odds (cash out) rather than risk having to pay them in full.

 

[formerlyknownasrutgers100]

If its addictive nature was a relevant factor to its legalization then why oh why is tobacco still widely available ?
Personally, I've always wondered why Rastafarians put up with this religious persecution.

I said it should be legal, should be, but It is addictive, someone here said it's not

 

[formerlyknownasrutgers100]

I don't know a single pot user that has ever suffered from any of those. Anyone else?

And I know plenty of ppl who drink and do cocaine, and they've never had any withdrawal symptoms, guess those 2 aren't addictive either !!!!

 

[FanuSanu52]

That's not a legitimate response. What you are arguing is Nullification. The Federal government passes a law we (an individual state) don't like, so we will just unilaterally overturn it. That's not legal at all. By that logic, an individual state wouldn't have to obey Civil Rights laws.



1. The reason marijuana is treated differently than tobacco is that the former can affect your behavior.
2. Most people agree with this.
3. Again, most people don't have a problem with legalization. What people have a problem with is the attempt of supporters to rationalize and minimize the affects of marijuana. Typically, people aren't as receptive to argument when the proponent is trying to fudge the details. If you want to get somewhere with legalization, stop harping on the effects of marijuana, and make a more reasonable case, like you did with waste of resources. Lead with your strongest point. When you get into this argument about the affects of marijuana, you are cutting off your nose to spite your face. You alienate people who would otherwise agree with you.

Something can be bad for you and still be legal.

Do you even live in NJ? Why does anyone need to craft an argument to impress you?

Seems like the majority of posters who actually do live there agree on this topic and for a variety of good reasons already listed on the first 3 pages.

 

[zappaa]

This is the same sort of logic that was used by advocates for Prohibition and the 18th Amendment.
Look,don't smoke or drink if you don't want to. And tell your kids what you wish.
But how one can possibly defend a law prohibiting pot smoking is weird.
Do you really think you're saving more lives than you're ruining ?
Have we learned absolutely nothing from the whole Prohibition "experiment" ?

I've talked to and most importantly listened to THOUSANDS of kids and parents about the dangers of alcohol, tobacco, drugs, including weed and making good decisions.
All of my posts are based in my own reality and what I hear from others.
I'm not defending, advocating…I'm telling you what I've learned first hand.

 

[zappaa]

I said it should be legal, should be, but It is addictive, someone here said it's not

Weed can become all consuming for people who don't have the character trait of being able to moderate their need and want for euphoria or a state of mind that's helps them reduce anxieties and problems.
It's a crap shoot, if you're an obsesive, OCD over achiever who does anything and everything to succeed, I suggest you beware of drugs and alcohol.

 

[mildone]

Paranoia, anxiety, not being able to sleep, depression, not being able to function, cold sweats it's nothing as severe as alcohol but doesn't mean there aren't effects

Still sounds just like marriage to me.

 

[DHajekRC84]

Paranoia, anxiety, not being able to sleep, depression, not being able to function, cold sweats it's nothing as severe as alcohol but doesn't mean there aren't effects

in that case can they make my job illegal?

 

[DHajekRC84]

What are the physical withdrawal side effects from cannabis?

sales of Oreo's and Doritos will slide...

 

[zappaa]

sales of Oreo's and Doritos will slide...

Dumb and dismissive.

 

[zappaa]

in that case can they make my job illegal?

More dumb and dismissive

 

[PeteGiam07]

Colorado only made $53 million in tax revenue in its first year. Considering that NJ collected about $30 Billion in tax revenue, even reaping $75-100 million would only be a drop in the bucket.

It would not get rid of illegal pot dealers either, since untaxed no-overhead drug dealers could sell pot cheaper.

Also, I don't think there will be people driving across bridges to buy pot in NJ. In most cities, getting pot delivered to you is about as challenging as get Chinese food delivered to you.

I'm just going to leave this here. According to this your numbers are off by a large amount.

"The 24-page report concluded the marijuana industry is the fastest-growing business sector in the state. It’s credited with creating 18,005 jobs in 2015, according to the report.

Legal marijuana produced $996 million in sales and $121 million in taxes in 2015."

http://kdvr.com/2016/10/27/study-marijuana-has-2-4-billion-economic-impact-on-state/

 

[batts]

Weed can become all consuming for people who don't have the character trait of being able to moderate their need and want for euphoria or a state of mind that's helps them reduce anxieties and problems.
It's a crap shoot, if you're an obsesive, OCD over achiever who does anything and everything to succeed, I suggest you beware of drugs and alcohol.

That's exactly what I have been trying to point out.

 

[Kbee3]

I've talked to and most importantly listened to THOUSANDS of kids and parents about the dangers of alcohol, tobacco, drugs, including weed and making good decisions.
All of my posts are based in my own reality and what I hear from others.
I'm not defending, advocating…I'm telling you what I've learned first hand.

That's great. Good for you.
And I've got a family full of anecdotes about the evils of all of those things...except the weed.
I've had close family relatives die from heroin overdoses, some others literally drinking themselves to death, and some dear family members passed due to lung cancer almost certainly related to their friggin smoking tobacco. Yet the tobacco and alcohol are perfectly legal. So unless you're on board with campaigning for making cigarettes and alcohol illegal.....there's something else going on here.
If an adult wants to smoke herb in a free society, they should not be prohibited by law from doing so. And that's not even getting into the whole Rasta thing about partaking of herb as part of their religion.
And BTW, all that's currently being done to fight against the use of ganja must be really effective....since it's more available than ever and much better quality The big difference I see today is that the parents are more likely to be toking than the children.

 

[Kbee3]

I'm just going to leave this here. According to this your numbers are off by a large amount.

"The 24-page report concluded the marijuana industry is the fastest-growing business sector in the state. It’s credited with creating 18,005 jobs in 2015, according to the report.

Legal marijuana produced $996 million in sales and $121 million in taxes in 2015."

http://kdvr.com/2016/10/27/study-marijuana-has-2-4-billion-economic-impact-on-state/

And that doesn't include all of the cost of investigating, arresting, prosecuting, and incarcerating those "criminals" for smoking a bone. A colossal waste of resources.