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OT: MLB HOF becomes even more of a joke

zappaa, I'm interested in your opinion if Baseball needs to "re-calibrate" what used to be "automatic" HOF credentials. It seems to me that 550 home runs is "the new 500 home runs" and perhaps the new "300 wins" is now 275 or even 250. The lifetime home run seems to have become easier while the lifetime pitching wins shrinks.

Any thoughts?
Totally agree about the pitching, they don’t stay in the game long enough to pitch out of trouble and get wins.

Hitting not so sure about, these pitchers have such dominating stuff now, I think the offense numbers are going to go down
 
Defensively!
He would come to spring training and teach us the double play pivot.
His lower body was so strong he rarely got knocked over, base runners would try to take him out and get the worst of it.. eventually they just avoided him.
He at times wouldn’t even use the pocket of his tiny glove and just trap the ball on the outside of his webbing.
He was the best pivot man in the history of baseball.

Always turned 2 from 2B with the ball outside the webbing if I was getting it easy underhand close by from the SS.
 
This is Yankee stuff.
Elston Howard #32, first black player and my dad’s best friend.
#8 Bill Dickey was the epitome of the Yankee aura.
#2, Derek Jeter certainly belongs.
Mariano as well.
#1 Billy, no way.

Joe Pepitone, the first player to have a hair dryer.
What the hell are these guys thinking?
 
The case again for my man Fred McGriff

Average Season as per Baseball Reference Stats

Baines -
Hits 130, HR 17 RBI 74
McGriff - Hits 138, HR 27 RBI 86

Top Ten Finish in MVP Voting

Baines -
2
McGriff - 6

Absolute crime (dog) that Baines is in and not McGriff. Either both or neither.
 
The case again for my man Fred McGriff

Average Season as per Baseball Reference Stats

Baines -
Hits 130, HR 17 RBI 74
McGriff - Hits 138, HR 27 RBI 86

Top Ten Finish in MVP Voting

Baines -
2
McGriff - 6

Absolute crime (dog) that Baines is in and not McGriff. Either both or neither.

130 hits a year and the HOF. That’s a joke.
 
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What about Gil Hodges? I can't figure out why he's not in. Great Player and outstanding Manager
Before Baines I don't think Hodges is worthy of the Hall. But if Baines is in Hodges has a more compelling argument.
 
Bains is a complete mistake so we can't start comparing other guys that are NOT HOF to him to say they should make it. It is also very unfair to Baines himself. The guy had a great career and 95% of players will never get to his level. It just was not HOF or even the next level that just misses the cut.
 
Before Baines I don't think Hodges is worthy of the Hall. But if Baines is in Hodges has a more compelling argument.
So that’s probably what’s happens. If so and so is in then we must add x. Dumbing down the Hall.
 
Bains is a complete mistake so we can't start comparing other guys that are NOT HOF to him to say they should make it. It is also very unfair to Baines himself. The guy had a great career and 95% of players will never get to his level. It just was not HOF or even the next level that just misses the cut.
If this moronic committee is going to let in players that only got 6% of the HOF vote, why even have the vote any more? At least Lee Smith received 50%, so that is more of a legit argument to have. Baines going in is a disgrace and due to a lobbying effort by his former manager and owner. That's all, two people.
 
If this moronic committee is going to let in players that only got 6% of the HOF vote, why even have the vote any more? At least Lee Smith received 50%, so that is more of a legit argument to have. Baines going in is a disgrace and due to a lobbying effort by his former manager and owner. That's all, two people.

I just looked that up. 6.1% was the highest vote ever for Baines. WOW!!!
 
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I just looked that up. 6.1% was the highest vote ever for Baines. WOW!!!
I know, isn't that crazy? Makes the Baines decision by this "committee" even worse. He's not even borderline of being borderline. He essentially was never considered.
 
Hey, now my all-time fav player*, Jamie Moyer, might have a shot!

Seriously, I don't think he belongs in Cooperstown, but I thought I'd give him a shout out...

* well, except maybe for Eddie Murray.
 
Prepare a new wing in Cooperstown with the new standards. Here is a list of players who got 5 or 6% of the BBWAA vote over the past 20 years. Many fine ballplayers but HOFers?

Nomar Garciaparra
Juan Gonzalez
Willie McGhee
Keith Hernandez
Fernando Valenzuela
Ron Guidry
Jeff Reardon
Bob Boone
Mickey Lolich
 
Prepare a new wing in Cooperstown with the new standards. Here is a list of players who got 5 or 6% of the BBWAA vote over the past 20 years. Many fine ballplayers but HOFers?

Nomar Garciaparra
Juan Gonzalez
Willie McGhee
Keith Hernandez
Fernando Valenzuela
Ron Guidry
Jeff Reardon
Bob Boone
Mickey Lolich
Most on this list are more deserving than Baines.
 
To quote the baseball hall of fame's site:

"The inaugural Hall of Fame election results were announced in the media on Feb. 2, 1936, and featured Ty Cobb, Walter Johnson, Christy Mathewson, Babe Ruth and Honus Wagner as the Class of 1936."

*That's* the calibre of player who should be in the Hall of Fame.
 
What’s a bigger joke now- the Baseball HOF or the Rock and Roll HOF?
 
What a bunch of blowhards!! Maybe we should just put every Yankee who had a few good seasons in the Hall, and then you would be happy.

Baines had 2800 hits. I am guessing that is in the top 50% for Hall-of-Fame residents.

The Hall of Fame is for players who able to perform at a high level over a long period of time, not for players who excelled for a few years and then flamed out for whatever reason.

I do have reservations due to the fact that he achieved a lot of this as a designated hitter, but 2800 hits is still an impressive total. I personally would be on the fence concerning the Hall, but I think individual season stats are far less important than the fact that someone could do it for so many years.

For the idiots bashing Alan Trammel, his statistics fall right in the middle for Hall-of-Fame shortstops, 10 or 11 out of a little over 20. He was an excellent fielder as well as a Number 3 hitter in the line-up for several years. His teams were always fighting for a World Series berth.

If you want to complain, think about guys like Farrell and Ashburn or Mazeroski. It is always going to be an arbitrary line though.

I do love to hear zappa's feelings about players of his time though. I think I would rather have players on this panel rather than owners and the like.
 
What a bunch of blowhards!! Maybe we should just put every Yankee who had a few good seasons in the Hall, and then you would be happy.

Baines had 2800 hits. I am guessing that is in the top 50% for Hall-of-Fame residents.

The Hall of Fame is for players who able to perform at a high level over a long period of time, not for players who excelled for a few years and then flamed out for whatever reason.

I do have reservations due to the fact that he achieved a lot of this as a designated hitter, but 2800 hits is still an impressive total. I personally would be on the fence concerning the Hall, but I think individual season stats are far less important than the fact that someone could do it for so many years.

For the idiots bashing Alan Trammel, his statistics fall right in the middle for Hall-of-Fame shortstops, 10 or 11 out of a little over 20. He was an excellent fielder as well as a Number 3 hitter in the line-up for several years. His teams were always fighting for a World Series berth.

If you want to complain, think about guys like Farrell and Ashburn or Mazeroski. It is always going to be an arbitrary line though.

I do love to hear zappa's feelings about players of his time though. I think I would rather have players on this panel rather than owners and the like.

Is everyone who disagrees with you a “blowhard” or an “idiot” or is that just your way of having a friendly discussion?
 
Is everyone who disagrees with you a “blowhard” or an “idiot” or is that just your way of having a friendly discussion?

"Friendly discussion?" Is that what we're supposed to be having on these boards? Gee, that's a new idea -- I never heard of it before. You mean people aren't supposed to insult each other?? What a strange idea! (Sarcasm fully intended!)
 
Baines Career Value was 13.7 wins.That's not enough.

Big career totals don't win today's game.If they could,we'd never have heard of the 27'Yankees as the 27 A's had Ty Cobb,Zach Wheat,Eddie Collins,and Jimmie Foxx ON THEIR BENCH!

Keep in mind that Foxx was 19, Cobb and Collins were 40, and Wheat was 39. In addition, Cobb tied for first in most games started. The team won 91 games, and finished second, so they weren't so bad. See this link: https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/PHA/1927-roster.shtml
 
The discussion is interesting. I will give you one for debate. Ron santo was voted in after his eligibility was over. One of my favorite players was Scott Rolen. I don't think Rolen is HOF, but his stats are very similar to Santo. Rolen won 8 Gold Gloves to 5 for Santo. Batting average for Rolen was .281 to .277 for Santo. Santo had more home runs, stats are similar. Will Rolen get consideration 15 years from now?
 
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Baines played 22 seasons. He was an All Star six times. He's 74th all time among right fielders in JAWS (a sabermetric stat that averages a player's career WAR with his seven year peak WAR). That puts him in the neighborhood of Shin-Soo Choo and Ken Griffey Sr. Does anyone think either of them are worth HOF consideration?

According to the HOF website, there have been around 18900 professional players and only 228 (including Smith and Baines) have been inducted into the Hall. That's 1.2% of players making it in, a very exclusive club. Look at that in terms of today's rosters. 30 teams x 25 active players = 750 major league players right now. We'll ignore guys on the border of AAA and the majors, called up as injury replacements or whatever. Apply the 1.2% to that 750 and you get around 9.
 
I really don’t get the premise of the original veterans Committee, or the spin-off committee that exists now.
The only logical conclusion is the committee inducts players who were over looked!

Well exactly how is anyone over looked?
The criteria is quite clear, if you earn a respectable percentage of the sports writers votes you remain on the ballot to be considered for entrance the ensuing years.

WTF...Harold Baines was not overlooked, he was considered unworthy.

Rejection spurs controversy, you’ll hear Santo was the best at his position, but how can that be when Eddie Mathews was still around!

Bottom line, no one is overlooked.
The premise of these committees are BS.
My dad served on the panel and lobbied for Rizzuto, it’s why they broke up the veterans committee... all they did was lobby for their teammates... I remember my dad on the phone with Ted Williams, the conversation went like this...Ted, vote for my guy and I’ll vote for yours...lol
Ted was lobbying for Dominck DiMaggio
 
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Baines was not a HOF, but the all-star thing. When he played were DH players on ballot? Now you can vote for DH but 20 years ago how did it work?
 
Thanks was just curious if he was on ballot. I just remember punching out the ballots at ballpark. And don't people complain that every team has to have a player on it?
 
Before Baines I don't think Hodges is worthy of the Hall. But if Baines is in Hodges has a more compelling argument.
Gil would already be in had Fred Wilpon done the right thing and named the rotunda in Gil's honor.Had he done so at the time,there would have been little objection.
 
Very similar to the NY Yankees. They retire a number at the drop of a hat.
The only numbers that deserve being retired are:

3 - Babe Ruth
4 - Lou Gehrig
5 - Joe Dimaggio
7 - Mickey Mantle
8 - Yogi Berra
9 - Roger Maris
15 - Thurman Munson
16 - Whitey Ford
49 - Ron Guidry

The others? Great players, great careers, that can have their numbers placed in a Ring Of Honor, but not retired....... if they had played in a small market... they would have only been recognized as being a very good player.

Like others pointed out and you later added Mo and Howard but to leave off Jeter makes no sense at all. And in what world should Maris be on this list?

This is a good example of, “if you have to think about it...” are they HoFers?

Rickey Henderson? No thinking required.

Dave Parker? Causes one to pause IMO.

I’m not much into the analytics thing other than what you write down on a scorecard.

Agree 100% with this...Drives me crazy when you get some people arguing these new stats that I still don't understand vs the freaking eyeball test.

I see it as the no brainers, the no ways and the hmmmm- this one may take some thought and no way on the first ballet,
Guys like Yount, Trammel, Parker fall into the "hmmmm" for me.
 
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