OT: NCAA Not Responsible for Education Quality

RUinPinehurst

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Want a good laugh? My God the NCAA is a troubling "association." How much longer can it last? See below for article from CNN.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/01/sport/ncaa-response-to-lawsuit/index.html

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NCAA: It's not our job to ensure educational quality

By Sara Ganim, CNN

Updated 12:54 PM ET, Thu April 2, 2015

Source: CNN

The UNC cheating scandal explained 01:38

Story highlightsIn response to lawsuit, NCAA says it doesn't control quality of education for student-athletesBut its website emphasizes importance of education, "opportunities to learn"Lawsuit claims students didn't get an education because of academic fraud at UNC

(CNN)After years of making the case that the education of athletes is paramount, the NCAA now says it has no legal responsibility to make sure education is actually delivered.

On its website, the NCAA prominently states,"It's our commitment -- and our responsibility -- to give young people opportunities to learn, play and succeed." And later, it says that "in the collegiate model of sports, the young men and women competing on the field or court are students first, athletes second."

But the NCAA is taking a very different position in response to a lawsuit filed by former University of North Carolina athletes. The lawsuit claimed the students didn't get an education because they were caught up in the largest known academic fraud scandal in NCAA history.

In its response, the NCAA says it has no legal responsibility "to ensure the academic integrity of the courses offered to student-athletes at its member institutions."

Even with pages of online information about academic standards, and even though the NCAA has established a system of academic eligibility and accountability that it boasts of regularly, NCAA attorneys wrote in this court filing that "the NCAA did not assume a duty to ensure the quality of the education of student-athletes," and "the NCAA does not have 'direct, day-to-day, operational control' " over member institutions like UNC.

"It's nonsense. It's double talk," said Gerald Gurney, a former athletic-academic director who is now president of The Drake Group for academic integrity in collegiate sport.
If you look at their basic core principles, it's all about academics, the experience, the integration of academics, and the education of the student is paramount," Gurney said. "They seem to talk out of both sides of their mouths."

The NCAA referred calls for comment to an online statement, which read in part:

The NCAA believes that the lawsuit misunderstands the NCAA's role with respect to its member schools and ignores the myriad steps the NCAA has taken to assist student-athletes in being equipped to excel both in the classroom and on the playing field.

"This case is troubling for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that the law does not and has never required the NCAA to ensure that every student-athlete is actually taking full advantage of the academic and athletic opportunities provided to them," said Donald Remy, NCAA chief legal officer.

In its response to the lawsuit, it also likened its role to that of the American Bar Association or American Medical Association, and said that those entities are not sued every time a lawyer or doctor acts inappropriately.

'Lost its meaning'

The scandal at UNC involved thousands of athletes who, over 18 years, were funneled into classes that never met, where advisers fudged grades and accepted plagiarism so that athletes who were falling behind in class could remain eligible to play sports.

Mary Willingham, the UNC whistleblower turned NCAA critic, has for years said that athletes across the country are accepted to colleges even though they're academically underprepared and then pushed into classes where little work is required. The system of eligibility that the NCAA brags about, she says, is a sham.

"Why do we go through the trouble of compliance if we can't legitimize that the courses are real and the education is real anyway? It makes no sense," said Willingham, who recently wrote a book about the UNC scandal called "Cheated." "If they can't legitimize that the academics are real and take no responsibility for that, then why certify students semester after semester to play? It's lost its meaning for me."

The NCAA's claim that it's hands-off when it comes to athletics seems to be a direct contradiction of what the organization has been repeating for years, not just in the rhetoric on its website, but in speeches by its president, Mark Emmert, and in court defending itself from numerous lawsuits over paying athletes.

For example, before it lost a case filed by former UCLA player Ed O'Bannon, suing for the right of athletes to make money off their images and likenesses, the NCAA stood on the pillar of amateurism, insisting that college athletes are paid with an education.

That's the defense the NCAA is now using in another class action filed by big-time sports attorney Jeffrey Kessler, seeking to make college sports a free market where athletes are paid salaries based on their value.

In response, the NCAA said that what sets college sports apart from pros is education: Consistent with "its commitment to amateurism, member institutions conduct their athletics programs for students who choose to participate in intercollegiate athletics as a part of their educational experience and in accordance with NCAA bylaws."

Attorney Michael Hausfeld, who represented both O'Bannon and now the UNC athletes, said this:

"This startling inconsistency is unfortunately all too symptomatic of the NCAA's shifting rhetoric and faltering commitment to its college athletes. NCAA President Mark Emmert has repeatedly proposed that 'What we live for is the education of our athletes,' but the NCAA's record tells a far different story."

But Rick Burton, professor of sport management at Syracuse University, said it's not realistic to think that the NCAA would regulate every professor and every course an athlete might take at each university across the country.

"I understand, I think, where the NCAA is coming from. We would not let the NCAA come in and tell us how to run our chemistry department at Syracuse University," he said.

"It sounds like someone is trying to say the NCAA should have been supervising that department at the University of North Carolina, and there's no logic to that," he said. "The people who are saying the NCAA should be held accountable for academics at every school are just looking for an opportunity to throw rocks at the NCAA."

UNC, which was also sued, has admitted to the fraud, but also asked for a judge to throw out the case, saying the athletes waited too long -- seven years -- to sue and the "educational malpractice" theory doesn't apply. UNC claims it is protected by state law.

No health and safety enforcement

This is reminiscent of another NCAA reversal.

The NCAA, which was founded a century ago to protect athletes from "dangerous and exploitive athletic practices," now says it does not enforce health and safety rules.

In fact, in response to a lawsuit filed by the family of a player who died in 2011, the NCAA wrote: "The NCAA denies that it has a legal duty to protect student-athletes."

A CNN investigation found that the NCAA has failed to open investigations in several cases where safety rules allegedly were broken. It has also fallen behind in imposing rules for concussions -- far behind even the NFL.

Ramogi Huma, president of the National College Players Association, and a leading thorn in the NCAA's side for decades, said this latest backpedaling from the NCAA leaves him wondering why the organization exists at all.

"There's nothing left the NCAA can claim it does that is beneficial to college athletes or society. One has to wonder what does the NCAA do if it doesn't protect players? If it doesn't play a role in the education of college athletics? It begs the question of why does the NCAA exist -- and why does it have a tax exemption."

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/01/sport/ncaa-response-to-lawsuit/index.html
 

rurichdog

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If that isn't a huge green light to all NCAA-affiliated Universities to set up entire programs of study that are only for athletes, consisting entirely of fake classes, then I don't know what is.
 

RUich

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You cannot lay all of the blame on the NCAA. There are simply way too many stupid courses offered to "satisfy" the academic requirements to play a sport, If most fans and alumni really cared about this, they would not tolerate what has been going on for way too long. Listening to many athletes talk is like fingernails on the blackboard.
 

RUseaweed

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I agree with the NCAA. It is not their job to audit every single university to make sure that the courses the schools offer are legitimate. That falls on whatever organization gives the school its accreditation. The NCAA is responsible for the first A in their name - Athletic. They make sure that universities are adhering to GPA minimums and the integrity of the games in which student athletes play. Not to make sure that UNC's African Studies department is properly run.

This post was edited on 4/2 7:29 PM by RUseaweed
 

RUinPinehurst

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But but but Mr Emmert is "on record" as stating an education is what the athlete receives as payment for his/her service, and that's why monetary payment for said service is not possible. There's the rub.
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RU4Real

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Originally posted by RUinPinehurst:
But but but Mr Emmert is "on record" as stating an education is what the athlete receives as payment for his/her service, and that's why monetary payment for said service is not possible. There's the rub.
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They receive every opportunity to avail themselves of an education. Many choose to do exactly that. Some, obviously, do not.

It's not the NCAA's job to ensure the quality of the education provided. There are many other organizations in line to do that.
 

RUinPinehurst

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4Real, If academically ill-suited kids are recruited, knowing they cannot succeed in regular classes, well, that's the heart of the problem-- as exemplified at UNC. Many of the kids never stood a chance at making tye grade. So grades were made for them. The NCAA needs to ensure this does not happen by working with its member institutions. It has a responsibility.
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RU4Real

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Originally posted by RUinPinehurst:
4Real, If academically ill-suited kids are recruited, knowing they cannot succeed in regular classes, well, that's the heart of the problem-- as exemplified at UNC. Many of the kids never stood a chance at making tye grade. So grades were made for them. The NCAA needs to ensure this does not happen by working with its member institutions. It has a responsibility.
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The NCAA is neither responsible nor accountable in this scenario. They are an informed party. For the NCAA to assume any level of responsibility or accountability, whatsoever, for educational quality would open up a Pandora's Box of limitless litigious horrors.
 

Knight177lb

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This is why the Association of American Universities needs to step in and kick UNC out. I can't imagine that offering fake classes is permitted. If they drop UNC, that would be the end of fake classes among any of it's members.
 

RU4Real

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Originally posted by RUinPinehurst:
Disagree. These wronged student-athletes are "bycatch." The NCAA is culpable in the matter.
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You're making an impassioned argument, but not a logical one. And not a legal one.
 

RU62

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Simple question .....then why does the NCAA exist snd why goes ot hsve certain eligibility guidelines and academic progress rewuiremrnts. Thus entire thing is one big joke that is being played on the student athletes and both on and by acetal schools. Let's then call it what it is. Semi pro or minor league hot the pros and stop the classroom and academic progress charade. Let's just have students enroll, take any 6-9 credits a semester and not worry if they pass any as long as they are enrolled and are on the registrar's student list. More and more wr are beginning to see the hypocracy of the NCAA and it's failure as a leader in maintaining any credibility in college athletics.
 

RU4Real

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The NCAA's job, in this scenario (and with respect to things like Initial and Continuing Eligibility and APR) is to set a bar. Players must meet the specific metrics or they are not eligible.

If the schools cheat to make the players eligible, they they should be punished - by all agencies with a specific interest.

But to suggest that the NCAA is responsible for guaranteeing that the academic standards claimed by the schools are, in fact, legitimate? That's far beyond their scope.
 

imbazza

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THE NCAA IS HIDING BEHIND THEIR OWN SKIRT
WHY IT WAS FOUNDED
""The NCAA was founded in 1906 to protect young people from the dangerous and exploitive athletics practices of the time," so states the National Collegiate Athletic Association on its official website"
People this started with the Ivy at the end of the 1800s this is the reason why the NCAA was founded to STOP THIS CHEATING
This is history repeating itself.
IF YOU DO NOT LEARN HISTORY YOU WILL REPEAT IT UNC101 PSU102 ON AND ON WE GO
 

TonyLieske

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Originally posted by RU4Real:
The NCAA's job, in this scenario (and with respect to things like Initial and Continuing Eligibility and APR) is to set a bar. Players must meet the specific metrics or they are not eligible.

If the schools cheat to make the players eligible, they they should be punished - by all agencies with a specific interest.

But to suggest that the NCAA is responsible for guaranteeing that the academic standards claimed by the schools are, in fact, legitimate? That's far beyond their scope.
In general I agree with your point.

I think where the NCAA may be opening itself up to liability is with regards to its lack of punishment of UNC. If the NCAA had punish UNC in a timely manner (or at all) I don't think they would even be named in the lawsuit and, if they were named, they would have a strong argument as to why they should not be named.

But the NCAA now knows that there were hundreds of student-athletes at UNC that should not have been eligible, yet the NCA has done nothing about it. That makes it at least reasonable to question whether they were complicit in (via intentionally ignoring) the underlying problem.
 

srru86

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Originally posted by Knight177lb:
This is why the Association of American Universities needs to step in and kick UNC out.
I presume the AAU would maintain they can dis-invite any member.

But the agency that is actually charged with making sure UNC is legit is the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools
If they pulled the accreditation the Department of Education would stop allowing federal student grants and loans to go to their students and most grants and research funds would be in doubt. But that is sort of like the NCAA "death penalty" almost never happens and only to small fry that are about to go belly up anyway.

WRAL UNC-Chapel Hill accreditation status remains unclear
 

srru86

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Originally posted by TonyLieske:

But the NCAA now knows that there were hundreds of student-athletes at UNC that should not have been eligible, yet the NCA has done nothing about it. That makes it at least reasonable to question whether they were complicit in (via intentionally ignoring) the underlying problem.
Yes, it speaks directly to the definition of eligibility which is a core of what the NCAA is supposed to be about.

And the fact that their accreditor is even questioning them in any way is a really big deal in the eyes of the education establishment. Places like UNC don't ever get this sort of scrutiny.
 

derleider

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Originally posted by srru86:

Originally posted by TonyLieske:

But the NCAA now knows that there were hundreds of student-athletes at UNC that should not have been eligible, yet the NCA has done nothing about it. That makes it at least reasonable to question whether they were complicit in (via intentionally ignoring) the underlying problem.
Yes, it speaks directly to the definition of eligibility which is a core of what the NCAA is supposed to be about.

And the fact that their accreditor is even questioning them in any way is a really big deal in the eyes of the education establishment. Places like UNC don't ever get this sort of scrutiny.
The NCAA is the schools. In essence, the whole thing is an admission that the schools themselves really don't care about educating student-athletes. They just want to use them as part of a large scale ad campaign.
 

RU848789

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Originally posted by RU4Real:

Originally posted by RUinPinehurst:
4Real, If academically ill-suited kids are recruited, knowing they cannot succeed in regular classes, well, that's the heart of the problem-- as exemplified at UNC. Many of the kids never stood a chance at making tye grade. So grades were made for them. The NCAA needs to ensure this does not happen by working with its member institutions. It has a responsibility.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
The NCAA is neither responsible nor accountable in this scenario. They are an informed party. For the NCAA to assume any level of responsibility or accountability, whatsoever, for educational quality would open up a Pandora's Box of limitless litigious horrors.
I agree that it would be way out of scope for the NCAA to do more than setting clear expectations for academic performance (in conjunction with the schools), in general. However, I do believe the NCAA has an investigative and enforcement responsibility when violations are brought to its attention, since many schools have shown an inability to self-police effectively (no surprise). And in the UNC case, the NCAA needs to drop the death penalty hammer, IMO. Schools need to know there are consequences for not attaining even minimum academic standards.

And right after that hammer is dropped, the regional accreditation board for the SE needs to drop the hammer on UNC for allowing this academic fraud to be perpetrated for decades in plain sight of way too many people who could have stopped it.
This post was edited on 4/3 6:33 PM by RU848789
 

Trekology

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The lawsuit by former student-athletes is ridiculous. They are suing the NCAA because they (the former student-athletes) knowingly participated in an academic fraud that they (again, the student-athletes) and school officials hid from the NCAA. Those same student-athletes now want compensation because they weren't caught committing the fraud sooner? Come on, that's just insane.
 

RUinPinehurst

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Trek, It's not that simple. When recruited, an athlete may have been told he could choose any major. But in the case of UNC, many kids were pre-enrolled in courses and forced into paths such as AFAM that actually required little or no work. Needless to say, they did not receive an education. Sure you can say it's the kids fault. But many came from backgrounds that put them at a disadvantage, in many ways. Tough situation.
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PSU_Nut

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Originally posted by RUinPinehurst:
Disagree. These wronged student-athletes are "bycatch." The NCAA is culpable in the matter.

Posted from Rivals Mobile
Is NJSIAA responsible to make sure Jersey High is not pushing Johnny Superstar along? It simply not possible to police everything. Now if they find out that he is just being passed along then they need to sanction Jersey High. However it simply no feasible for them to police that. It simply not possible for them to verify all the classes at the 1281 member schools for the over 450,000 student athletes.
 

RUinPinehurst

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PSU, It's about $. Lots of $. The NCAA is aware of the exploitive dynamic plaguing revenue-generating sports in its member institutions. The UNC scandal typifies this, although this is the extreme: fake classes vs easy classes, an effort whose sole purpose is to keep revenue-generating athletes eligible to play. The original role of the NCAA is to protect the student-athlete. The organization has a responsibility to protect the student-athlete on the field and in the classroom. But it is ignoring this responsibility. Mind you, 90 % of the revenue that comes to the NCAA is from the annual BB tourney. That is the source of the conflict. Google the documentary "Schooled" for a primer.
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ru109

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The NCAA is not responsible for the players actions off the field. If a player wants to take ballroom dancing and pottery and then can't find a job after they are not drafted it's not the NCAA's fault. These players have a free ride,take advantage of it. Show up for class, have a real major and graduate if you aren't a legit prospect. If players want to coast through school that's on them.
 

ruhudsonfan

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A kid is "forced" into a major? And unable to leave that major?

I find that incredibly difficult to believe.

Every major athletic program has athlete friendly majors. We have them. Duke has them. Stanford has them. Hell, even Navy had them.

If Vince Carter showed up at UNC and said he wanted to major in Math I'm sure he could have majored in Math. What ACTUALLY happens is that the kids that go to UNC all have aspirations of playing in the NBA. They treat their 1, 2, 3 years there as the minor leagues. Class is secondary to basketball. Eligibility is a necessary condition. Someone registers them in AFAM, they get As and they say, "sounds good to me."

They are just as complicit in this scandal as UNC is. To suggest that the NCAA should monitor every school to make sure that there aren't joke majors is ridiculous overreach. And I'm not fan of the NCAA.
 

RUinPinehurst

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Hudson, In UNC's case, kids were forced into fake classes and sham courses and majors. They were pre-enrolled. Majors were denied them. Real education was denied them. Look into it. Read "Cheated," by Smith and Willingham. Reas "Tarnished Heels." Read the Wainstein Report. Search youtube for Rashad McCants interview with CNN.
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RU4Real

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Originally posted by RUinPinehurst:
Hudson, In UNC's case, kids were forced into fake classes and sham courses and majors. They were pre-enrolled. Majors were denied them. Real education was denied them. Look into it. Read "Cheated," by Smith and Willingham. Reas "Tarnished Heels." Read the Wainstein Report. Search youtube for Rashad McCants interview with CNN.
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Nobody held a gun to their heads.

And even if somebody did - still not the NCAA's job to define, administer or in any way regulate college curricula. You've yet to provide a single shred of evidence to support your assertion that the NCAA is somehow "culpable".
 

vkj91

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Originally posted by ru109:
The NCAA is not responsible for the players actions off the field. If a player wants to take ballroom dancing and pottery and then can't find a job after they are not drafted it's not the NCAA's fault. These players have a free ride,take advantage of it. Show up for class, have a real major and graduate if you aren't a legit prospect. If players want to coast through school that's on them.
Exactly. Plus, if you hold the NCAA accountable who will all the non athletes that majored in AFAM, dance, and art sue? As Hudson stated, every school has their cake majors and classes. Question is whether a kid decides to take a few or make it his entire course load. For example, my school only offered Organic Chem at 9 am and the professor gave a quiz ever Friday. This quiz made up 20% of your grade and he did not allow make ups even for sports travel. I only knew a handful of athletes who were willing to take that gamble in season and the rest of us simply took it over the summer.
 

ruhudsonfan

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Originally posted by RU4Real:

Originally posted by RUinPinehurst:
Hudson, In UNC's case, kids were forced into fake classes and sham courses and majors. They were pre-enrolled. Majors were denied them. Real education was denied them. Look into it. Read "Cheated," by Smith and Willingham. Reas "Tarnished Heels." Read the Wainstein Report. Search youtube for Rashad McCants interview with CNN.
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Nobody held a gun to their heads.

And even if somebody did - still not the NCAA's job to define, administer or in any way regulate college curricula. You've yet to provide a single shred of evidence to support your assertion that the NCAA is somehow "culpable".
I've seen the McCants interview. And I summarily REJECT the notion that any of these athletes gave a shit when they were at UNC pursuing a career in the NBA. McCant's flamed out and is now bitter he has no degree. If he had any courage or character, he should have spoken up when he was handing in 1 paragraph "term papers" and receiving As. It doesn't surprise me he was silent then.

In order for any system to function properly all the stakeholders must hold each other accountable. UNC is a top 5 hoops program. Regardless of what we think the university "owes" these kids, other than the walk-ons, these guys enter that program believing they are gong to the NBA. They behave that way around campus. I spent a year at Duke and was on the UNC campus 2x a week. It's not hard to pick out the basketball players--and not because they are 6'9". They are working the system just as hard as the system is working them. You are putting forth a tale of exploitation because you have some hard-on for UNC. You were the person who danced on Dean Smith's grave the day after he died. If you have 500 posts here, 498 of them are keeping a fan base with no real interest in UNC, up to date with minute by minute updates of this investigation and scandal. Have at it, as I'm not a person who likes to police what is posted here. But your agenda is clear, despite it being difficult to ascertain why it exists.

The NCAA has how many hundred of member schools just at the 1a revenue level? Should the police the Top 40 differently than Montclair State or Rowan? They are an athletic governing association who's sole reason for being is to define a minimum standard of eligibility, be a pass through entity for collecting and distributing negotiated revenue and giving a cursory glance toward the idea of a level playing field in recruiting. They do not EXIST to make sure AFAM at UNC is not handing out degrees. Just like they don't exist to monitor whether RU gives priority registration to athletes (which we do), whether football players are "urged" to be Labor Relations majors (which they are) or anything else that academic purists would deem unsavory.
 

WhichReligionIsRight

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NCAA = selective enforcement; selective accountability. Organization needs to blown up and recreated into something useful. As it is, the NCAA is worse than worthless.
 

DaveSNJ

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The NCAA is accountable if you consider the unfair advantage this situation creates between member institutions. If my institution does not have to concern itself with student athlete eligibility by providing fake classes to keep players eligible while other like schools do, one can assume schools are creating an unfair advantage both for recruiting and then during the collegiate career of the student athlete.
 

ScarletDave

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For those of you who ever attended the NCAA tournament, you have seen that the. NCAA has no problem boasting about all their "students" and the integrity and prestige of their grades and accolades, "student first, athlete second"* *except when we actually have to do something about the student part
 

RUinPinehurst

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Hudson, Not sure why you need to personalize this. If you had read my prior posts regarding the UNC scandal, you should know "why" I am unrelenting in my sharing news related to it. Until UNC steps forward and offers self-imposed sanctions, forfeits victories, and makes reparations to all those schools it cheated and until that institution is punished by the NCAA, I will continue.

As for Dean Smith, again, 22 of the first 25 students who took fake classes were his players. That is fact, not emotion.

Further, UNC had previously conducted some six internal "reviews" before the final Wainstein Report. Those prior reviews found no athletic wrongdoing. Wainstein found otherwise. Still, his report only began looking at the AFAM dept and only beginning in 1993. UNC admitted fake classes going back to 1989 not 1993 and ends in 2012. According to UNC's admission to SACS on page 91: 6806 total enrollments; 2645 athletes enrolled; 23 year period of review.

If these posts offend you, don't click on them. If I habitually offend you in my postings, "ignore" me.

This post was edited on 4/4 2:11 PM by RUinPinehurst
 

krup

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My first reaction is to say that there is no way the NCAA can check on
the validity of the classes at all of their member institutions and that there are other
accrediting organizations that are responsible for that.

Then, I remember that you can say the same thing about high schools and somehow with the clearinghouse the NCAA has been able to set up a process for checking the validity of high school courses.
 

RU4Real

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Originally posted by krup:

Then, I remember that you can say the same thing about high schools and somehow with the clearinghouse the NCAA has been able to set up a process for checking the validity of high school courses.
No. It doesn't do that. All the clearinghouse sees are the results. There's no mechanism to review the course content or ensure its validity.
 

krup

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Originally posted by RU4Real:

Originally posted by krup:

Then, I remember that you can say the same thing about high schools and somehow with the clearinghouse the NCAA has been able to set up a process for checking the validity of high school courses.
No. It doesn't do that. All the clearinghouse sees are the results. There's no mechanism to review the course content or ensure its validity.
That is not true. A school has to get a course approved with the clearinghouse. AFTER THAT, all that matters for a kid is getting the results he needs in an approved course.

Below is list of reasons the clearinghouse declines to approve a core course for NCAA elgibility. How many of these reasons fit the UNC no show, no work classes? I bolded a few.









List of Denied NCAA Courses (Form 48H)


The following course(s) DO NOT qualify as NCAA core course(s) and therefore CANNOT BE
USED



for NCAA initial-eligibility certification.


For those courses processed after January 15, 2004, the
reason for denial of the



courses will be included at the end of the course title
listing on your high school's List of



Denied NCAA Courses. The reason codes (RC) and their
corresponding explanations are



as follows:


RC1. The course does not meet a graduation requirement in
one of the specified



core areas.


RC2. The course does not meet the definition of a core
course.



RC3. The course contains significant personal service
components.



RC4. The course does not meet requirements for a
nontraditional course.



RC5. The course is considered doctrinal in nature.


RC6. The course has significant vocational components.


RC7. The course is not considered substantially comparable,
qualitatively and



quantitatively, to a regular core course offered in the
academic area.



RC8. This course is on hold, pending additional information
from the high school.



In order for this course to be given a thorough review, the
high school must fax



or mail a course description from an official school
publication such as a course



catalog, program of studies or curriculum guide and a course
outline/curriculum



outline to the attention of Core Course Review. (State
standards and generic



pacing guides are not sufficient.) Under normal
circumstances, please allow 2-3



weeks for review of RC8 materials


RC9. The course is a nontraditional course without
instructor/student access.



RC10. The course is not taught at the level of Algebra I or
higher.



RC11. The course is taught below the regular academic level.


RC12. The course is not considered four-year college
preparatory.



RC13. The course is not a recognized academic course.


RC14. English as a Second Language (ESL) or Speakers of
Other Languages



(SOL) courses are not acceptable as NCAA Courses; however,
advanced ESL or



SOL courses may be used, but must be reviewed on a case-by-case
basis. Any



student who wishes to have advanced ESL courses considered
when determining



his or her initial eligibility must contact the institution
he or she will be attending



in order to begin the approval process.


RC15. The course does not appear to meet NCAA core course
guidelines and has



been forwarded to the NCAA national office for review.


RC16. The course is denied due to submission in the wrong
academic core area.



You may resubmit the course in the appropriate academic
area.



RC17. The course does not meet NCAA core course guidelines
as established by



the NCAA Core Course Review Committee.


RC18. Computer science courses cannot be used to fulfill
core course



requirements for student-athletes first entering a
collegiate institution on or



after August 1, 2005.


RC19. Courses in which the curriculum, pacing or
instructional methods can be



modified from student to student (including independent
study courses) cannot



be placed on a school's list of NCAA Courses. The
Eligibility Center may review



students' coursework after graduation; however, it cannot be
guaranteed that



the courses will be used in the initial -eligibility
process.








[/URL]
 

vkj91

Hall of Famer
Gold Member
Feb 7, 2007
41,248
37,314
113
Originally posted by RU4Real:
Holy crap, you have no idea what you're reading.
This. The clearinghouse isn't going to kick a class out from. Real HS. What the clearing house does is make sure schools are actually accredited. For example, one of the issues the kid from DP had was he took a year at a school housed in a hotel. Going into his junior or senior year he found out those credits wouldn't be accepted. Despite this he still had a pathway to get eligible.
 

RU4Real

Hall of Famer
Jul 25, 2001
48,788
27,052
113
Originally posted by vkj91:

Originally posted by RU4Real:
Holy crap, you have no idea what you're reading.
This. The clearinghouse isn't going to kick a class out from. Real HS. What the clearing house does is make sure schools are actually accredited. For example, one of the issues the kid from DP had was he took a year at a school housed in a hotel. Going into his junior or senior year he found out those credits wouldn't be accepted. Despite this he still had a pathway to get eligible.
The only thing the horribly cut-and-pasted bit speaks about is what the NCAA considers to be excluded from the core curriculum. It has nothing to do with what the poster is suggesting.

And really, people, if all you can do is cut and paste something you don't understand, at least have the courtesy to clean it up so it's not such a graphic abortion.
 

RU848789

Legend
Jul 27, 2001
54,546
31,240
113
Metuchen, NJ
Originally posted by ruhudsonfan:

Just like they don't exist to monitor whether RU gives priority registration to athletes (which we do), whether football players are "urged" to be Labor Relations majors (which they are) or anything else that academic purists would deem unsavory.
Asked my father-in-law, who was a prof in the Labor Relations Dept into the mid-90s and a very good friend of mine who has been a prof in that dept. for the past 15 years and both said they've never heard of football players being "urged" to be LR majors. Not saying it's not possible, but you may want to double check your sources on that one.