OT: NEW EVERYTHING / ANYTHING COVID-19 THREAD PART II

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brad1218

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I understand and appreciate your response to my post. My friends work in hospitals as nurses (one being an ICU nursing manager) and I haven't been told by them that they have seen clots or tissue damage in younger patients months after having covid like they do with many adults. That doesn't necessarily mean things may not come up in the future but as of now they aren't worried about their kids catching covid. I have my concerns about this vaccine. Probably unwarranted, but I worry about it's possible long term affects.

You are a doctor, right? Have you seen any prolonged issues for healthy kids that had covid like tissue damage or blood clots?
My kids doctor who has kids the same age as mine 10 and 13 has said she is concerned about her kids getting it. She would absolutely get her kids vaccinated as soon as possible.
 

RUBOB72

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Kids will eventually be vaccinated and I would bet on that. As a side note. Today we had the 2nd dose of Pfizer and once again it was run by the military and FEMA. Excellent job as many of us had said back in December . The military is well prepared to do mass inoculations and there were once again hundreds going through between 8-8:30 am. Overheard FEMA persons saying we have plenty of vaccines and that was nice to hear. Also he asked if we had had any reactions with shot # 1 ... we did not and he said very few negatives reported . He was Ex military and we chatted about how many shots people in the service used to get. Since I was a combat field medic I never saw anyone fall over and go into anaphylactic shock.It happens but I never had a case while serving. Suffice to say Rutgers get the vaccine it is at the very least a chance for us to get back to where we should be. Great job by the volunteer medical folks helping to organize and monitor those getting the shots.
 

RUBOB72

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1st shot today.! Woohoo
Good for you pmvon . Some info which should be noted. Almost 10 hours post 2nd dose of Pfizer vaccine . Wife’s arm some soreness and same with me. No aches and pains. No fever or chills. No signs of bad reactions. Will follow up tomorrow . One thing though I’m hungry as a bear . GO Rutgers!!!!! You can do this boys.🪓🪓🪓🪓🪓
 
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RU_DIO

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And what would it have done for them last spring, summer and fall? Not as much during the most critical phases and that’s the point. It’s too late to prepare for a crisis once the crisis has begun. Efforts put forth today help for the tnext crisis.

The ones still alive would be in good shape and no longer fatties
 
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RUfinally2008

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Why do you think the US will even consider it?? The US has contracts with Pfizer, Moderna and J&J that will result in a surplus. We don't need another especially when most of Europe is not using it.
LMFAO, Wrong again? AstraZeneca
Why do you think the US will even consider it?? The US has contracts with Pfizer, Moderna and J&J that will result in a surplus. We don't need another especially when most of Europe is not using it.
Looks like your wrong again. AstraZeneca could be in the USA as early as April. At that point, you'll be singing it's praises. 😁I shouldn't have had to post this, you should have had the nads to admit you were wrong. Looks like I'm not the only "baby" in this thread.
https://apnews.com/article/us-data-...afe-all-ages-a73e711c7309be4444c65d5f9ae90c43
 

RUfanSinceAnderson

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Good for you pmvon . Some info which should be noted. Almost 10 hours post 2nd dose of Pfizer vaccine . Wife’s arm some soreness and same with me. No aches and pains. No fever or chills. No signs of bad reactions. Will follow up tomorrow . One thing though I’m hungry as a bear . GO Rutgers!!!!! You can do this boys.🪓🪓🪓🪓🪓
Any update?
 

RUBOB72

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Any update?
No reaction of any type. Both of us felt pretty good some minor arm soreness which by 8 am was non existent.After listening to all the negative news on Astra Zeneca , Moderna not as much with Pfizer you are saying to yourself “ ok when is this going to kick in “. Hope people don’t allow the fear mongers to scare you away from being vaccinated. The interesting thing is the conjecture that if you had Covid 19 previously don’t get the vaccine or at least speak to your physician before taking it. Could be why some people suddenly die after vaccinating . Maybe someday we’ll have the real story.
 
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Joey Bags

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Outdoor concerts too. Kenny Chesney cancelled his MetLife show for September.

Just ridiculous

Hearing rumors the Stone Pony and Starland Ballroom will be up for liquidation by the end of the summer. Just absurd. Live entertainment literally is going to become a history book chapter and it pisses me the f*** off.
 
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RUfinally2008

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No reaction of any type. Both of us felt pretty good some minor arm soreness which by 8 am was non existent.After listening to all the negative news on Astra Zeneca , Moderna not as much with Pfizer you are saying to yourself “ ok when is this going to kick in “. Hope people don’t allow the fear mongers to scare you away from being vaccinated. The interesting thing is the conjecture that if you had Covid 19 previously don’t get the vaccine or at least speak to your physician before taking it. Could be why some people suddenly die after vaccinating . Maybe someday we’ll have the real story.
Your last 2 sentences explain why there is fear mongers!!!
 

Proud NJ Sports Fan

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Hearing rumors the Stone Pony and Starland Ballroom will be up for liquidation by the end of the summer. Just absurd. Live entertainment literally is going to become a history book chapter and it pisses me the f*** off.

Meanwhile live music venues have been open for a while in other states.

It's criminal
 

RUfinally2008

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Why 30% don't trust the information being reported. PS. I got my Mom on the list at her request, she was given the Moderna yesterday at Bayshore Hospital. I talked to her at noon after she got home and said it was very organized. They put clocks on the chairs next to each person after the shot to keep track of when they could leave. At 6pm she was feeling tired and I 10pm she said she was totally wiped-out and had chills. I see what she's like this morning, at 88 who knows.
 
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RUfinally2008

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Is it true, there's never been a vaccine distributed while an out break is active in the world's population as wide spread as this? Also the one fit for all approach knowingly will sacrifice some for the good is what the government is trying to remove from the publics decision making?
 

WhiteBus

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LMFAO, Wrong again? AstraZeneca

Looks like your wrong again. AstraZeneca could be in the USA as early as April. At that point, you'll be singing it's praises. 😁I shouldn't have had to post this, you should have had the nads to admit you were wrong. Looks like I'm not the only "baby" in this thread.
https://apnews.com/article/us-data-...afe-all-ages-a73e711c7309be4444c65d5f9ae90c43
I'm not wrong. Just last night David Muir asked Dr, Jha that with contracts with the current vaccine suppliers that will result in a surplus in the US, do we need another? His simple answer is no! Just because AstraZeneca is going for approval doesn't mean the US will buy it for use in the US. Doesn't surprise me you fall flat on your face again. [roll]
In the very article you posted you obviously didn't read this.
"What that will mean for America’s vaccination plans is unclear. The Biden administration already projects there will be enough doses for all adults by the end of May thanks to increasing supplies from the makers of the three vaccines already in use in the U.S. — Pfizer, Moderna and Johnson & Johnson."
 
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slyker

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No reaction of any type. Both of us felt pretty good some minor arm soreness which by 8 am was non existent.After listening to all the negative news on Astra Zeneca , Moderna not as much with Pfizer you are saying to yourself “ ok when is this going to kick in “. Hope people don’t allow the fear mongers to scare you away from being vaccinated. The interesting thing is the conjecture that if you had Covid 19 previously don’t get the vaccine or at least speak to your physician before taking it. Could be why some people suddenly die after vaccinating . Maybe someday we’ll have the real story.

My wife had COVID in late fall. She works with several infectious disease physicians, who advised her to wait at least 90 days to be vaccinated after she had COVID. She did wait the 90 days and had no issues with the vaccine, however, as others have predicted for those who have had COVID ... her side effects were worse from the first Pfizer dose (lethargy/headache/chills etc).... and no reaction at all from dose 2.
 

RUfanSinceAnderson

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My wife had COVID in late fall. She works with several infectious disease physicians, who advised her to wait at least 90 days to be vaccinated after she had COVID. She did wait the 90 days and had no issues with the vaccine, however, as others have predicted for those who have had COVID ... her side effects were worse from the first Pfizer dose (lethargy/headache/chills etc).... and no reaction at all from dose 2.
Had Covid late Nov / early Dec. Got Pfizer shot about 100 days later. All good with shot 1. Shot 2 is this weekend.
 
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GSGS

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Not surprising, AZ vax is non-profit, major US pharma lobbies have us lined up with the for-proft firms.

Not sure about Moderna, but Pfizer is charging the government / healthcare providers less than $20 a dose. For something this important, given the efficacy of Pfizer and less Q's around its safety profile (compared to AZ), give me Pfizer all day.
 

Joey Bags

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Not sure about Moderna, but Pfizer is charging the government / healthcare providers less than $20 a dose. For something this important, given the efficacy of Pfizer and less Q's around its safety profile (compared to AZ), give me Pfizer all day.

The AZ vaccine was required to remain revenue-neutral throughout its existence. The pfizer/moderna are selling cheap for now but prices are expected to jump to around 300 bucks a shot this summer for pfizer.
 

RU848789

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Funny you should say that. Call out bull$hit if you want, but my sister in law goes to the same medical group I go to in Holmdel. It was a medical group that shut down for 1 month when a year ago they were slammed with 17 doctors and employees getting Covid. When Gov. Murphy asked them to run the mega site at PNC they said no forkin way. So back to my sister in law, she had blood work done yesterday, she's 64 and a smoker since she was 15. She asked if she decides to get vaccinated which one should she take. He told her none are worth the risk. I go to a different doctor in the group 1st week in May for my A1C blood work, my doctor I know caught COVID last March and I'll ask him the same question. 6 months ago, he told me of the 17 that got Covid, 10 still had high levels of antibodies and 7 had zero. it's not uncommon for those in the medical field to refuse to get vaccinated. Care to explain to me a logical reason why?
Cause there are also stupid people, who don't understand the risk-reward of vaccines even in the medical field, although extraordinarily few doctors are anti-vax, because they know better - the much less educated medical staff in the field are far more prone to being persuaded by kooky conspiracy theories about vaccines, like yourself.
 

Proud NJ Sports Fan

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Cause there are also stupid people, who don't understand the risk-reward of vaccines even in the medical field, although extraordinarily few doctors are anti-vax, because they know better - the much less educated medical staff in the field are far more prone to being persuaded by kooky conspiracy theories about vaccines, like yourself.

Pot call kettle


"wet market" 🤭
 

RU848789

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SIAP as this came out yesterday, but I'm still recovering from my snow coma and haven't looked at this thread or much on COVID. But yesterday a paper came out on the Astra-Zeneca/Oxford vaccine and in the big picture it's mostly good news, especially on what their data show on the vaccine likely lowering transmission rates. The paper is linked below, as well as a timely blog entry from Derek Lowe on this in his In The Pipeline blog in ScienceMag. As usual, he does an excellent job explaining what the paper means. In addition, the 3rd link is to my post from December on the original vaccine data (and Derek Lowe blog entry on that), which has a lot of background info if interested (can't quote the post with the thread being locked, which is annoying.).

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3777268

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/02/03/oxford-astrazeneca-data-again

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/t...ase-ii-iii-trial-and-more.203426/post-4823821

So, the AZ adenvirus vector vaccine had a pretty shaky rollout of the clinical data from the phase III trial with missteps and many questions on efficacy, such as why did a half first dose and full 2nd dose have better efficacy than two full doses and what the best duration between doses is. The new paper which focuses on a much smaller new set of clinical data on 1293 patients with a 12-week interval between doses shows that the efficacy in this small sample was 82% overall after both doses (vs. 67% in the original trial when the two doses were 4 weeks apart) and still 76% after the first dose, which is statistically about the same. Here's how Lowe explains what seems to be some non-intuitive results (including a rationale for why the half-dose/full dose combo looked better in the original data):

Why should this be? The answer is “immunology”, and that’s not just the last refuge of scoundrels. Historically, it appears that longer delays in a two-dose regime can make things better, make them worse, or not make much difference, and the only way to be sure is to go out and get the clinical data. So even though this is not a large 12-week data set, I’m glad to see it. I think that the UK’s move to get as many first doses into the population as they can was the right one, and it’s good to see some data that at least don’t undermine it. What about the low-dose/standard dose business, though? This preprint offers a possible explanation: it turns out that the cohort that got the lower dose at first also had a longer delay before getting the second dose. So it’s possible that the apparent increase in efficacy was driven less by the lower first dose than by the longer gap between the doses.

Perhaps more importantly, as I said above, AZ also did some excellent work in this study on actually measuring for the coronavirus, via weekly nasal swabs and PCR tests, which other trials by other vaccine makers have not done. And while it's fantastic that all of the vaccines, so far, seem to be nearly completely protective against severe COVID everyone has been wondering about viral levels, shedding and transmission. This study shows that those viral levels are certainly much less, overall, which should mean greatly reduced transmission. Again here's how Lowe put it, below. This dovetails nicely with the Israeli report today on likely reduced transmissions in the real world witih the mRNA vaccine distribution in that country as per @rutgersguy1's post.

The swab data say that it has. It appears that the vaccine reduced the number of people showing PCR positivity by 50 to 70%. The actual numbers were -67% after the first dose and -54% overall, but I wouldn’t read anything into that difference, because the confidence intervals for those two measurements completely overlap. So it looks like everything is shifted: hospitalized cases end up being able to stay at home with more moderate symptoms, people who would have had moderate symptoms end up asymptomatic, and people who would have been asymptomatic end up not testing positive at all. Oh, and people who would have died stayed alive. There’s that, too.

If you just look at efficacy in preventing asymptomatic infection, you get a really low number (16% efficacy, confidence interval banging into the zero baseline). But my interpretation of that is that the overall number of asymptomatic patients didn’t change too much, because as just mentioned, the “would have been asymptomatic” group is not showing infection at all, and their numbers have been replaced by people from the “would have been showing symptoms” cohort, who are now just asymptomatic. And since transmission would seem to depend on viral load (among other factors), reducing viral load across the population (as shown by the significant decrease in PCR positivity) would certainly be expected to slow transmission. As Eric Topol noted at the time, this same effect had been noticed in the Moderna data in December. So with the numbers we have now, I feel pretty confident that yes, as one would have hoped, these vaccines also reduce transmission of the virus in the population. I believe that we should soon see this in a large real-world way in the Israeli data, where a significant part of the population has now been vaccinated.



Once again you spew nonsense. The Astra-Zeneca vaccine is likely quite safe with respect to blood clotting, based on the data available post-approval, as per the excerpt below from Derek Lowe's latest blog entry on this, showing that clotting issues are no greater in the vaccinated group than in the general population. This doesn't mean reports of adverse event shouldn't be investigated, but the EU states who have paused the use of the AZ vaccine need to resolve their concerns quickly or else risk a major erosion in public confidence without having data saying it's not safe - especially when the EMA (the EU's version of the FDA) is still saying the AZ vaccine is safe.

It's a mess that doesn't need to be a mess, IMO. I also think it's nuts that countries with no other vaccines would be pausing use of a vaccine which is clearly effective and appears to be safe. Even if a COVID vaccine had 1 in 1MM people die (none have died from the vaccine to date - this is a hypothetical), I would still approve it and get it as the vaccine prevents anywhere from 100 to 10,000 (or more in the very old) deaths per 1MM from COVID, depending on age.

The big question is, are the reports of vascular problems greater than one would expect in the vaccinated population as a whole? It’s not clear to me what the answer is, and it may very well be “No, they aren’t”. That CNBC link above quotes Michael Head at Southampton as saying that the data so far look like the problems show up at at least the same levels, and may even be lower in the vaccinated group. AstraZeneca has said that they’re aware of 15 events of deep vein thrombosis and 22 events pulmonary embolisms, but that’s in 17 million people who have had at least one shot – and they say that is indeed “much lower than would be expected to occur naturally in a general population of this size“. It also appears to be similar to what’s been seen with the other coronavirus vaccines, which rather than meaning “they’re all bad” looks like they’re all showing the same baseline signal of such events across a broad population, without adding to it.

In that case, this could be an example of what I warned about back in December (and many others have warned about as well), the post hoc ergo propter hoc “false side effects” problem. I’ve been looking this morning, and so far have not found anyone clearly stating that the problems seen are running higher in the vaccinated patients, anyway (if someone does come across such numbers or such a statement, I’ll amend this post immediately with a link). I realize that there’s a possibility (not a likely one, though) that some particular batch of vaccine is more problematic, but I haven’t seen any solid evidence of that, either


https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeli...-going-on-with-the-astrazeneca-oxford-vaccine

Well, after a 4-day absence from COVID posting, due to the main point of these boards, i.e., going to the tourney the past few days to see RU hoops, here's a post on the latest from Astra-Zeneca. Some background posts on the Astra Zeneca vaccine are above (the first one on the last release of clinical data and the second one on the blood-clotting concerns) and yesterday we saw a bit of a shitshow from AZ in their release of misleading efficacy data claiming 79% efficacy in preventing symptomatic COVID in their phase III US trial, based on preliminary data whereas the final data, which they had access to shows 69-75% efficacy and still shows no hospitalizations and deaths, all of which are excellent data and should result in approval for emergency use.

Not surprisingly, this led to a major dust-up with US vaccine experts and even the data safety monitoring board. As Derek Lowe said in his recent blog entry on this, it's either sheer stupidity (unlikely) or evidence of senior AZ management trying to make their vaccine look a bit better (likely), which is really frustrating, as the vaccine looks to be pretty damn good without any fudging. This includes no unusual safety signals, including no evidence of elevated clotting issues, although a 20K person study likely won't find the 10 in 1MM level clotting issues that have been seen, which are similar to levels in the general population Derek's bottom line is below.

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/03/22/astrazenecas-us-vaccine-trial-data

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...931d34-8bc3-11eb-a33e-da28941cb9ac_story.html

No, the going never would have been smooth, but it didn’t have to be like this. There will be books about the way vaccines were developed and launched during this pandemic, and there’s enough material for one just on this vaccine in particular. But the latter chapters are still being formed: this vaccine should continue having a big role in knocking down this pandemic around the world. Today’s data give more confidence that it can do so.

In addition, perhaps this was posted while I was away, but the EMA (EU's version of the FDA) reaffirmed its position that the AZ vaccine is safe and effective and most of the countries that had paused its use have started using the vaccine again, although I'm sure the over-reaction by several countries probably has led to an unnecessary loss of trust in the AZ vaccine (and possibly others). It was obvious last week that even if there was a slight increase in clotting risk of a few extra per million (still does not look to be a higher risk, though), this risk is dwarfed by the vaccine's benefits for those millions. Having said that, even if there were a connection, the scientists in that field say such clots should be easily treatable if they develop in rare cases.

https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...ntists-zero-in-on-astrazeneca-blood-clot-link
 
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RUhasarrived

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The trends are all going in the wrong direction.Hospitalizations in all three regions have taken a bump recently.A cynic would charge that the vaccinations don't work.To quote Walter Alston:"'It's too early to tell."

I just hope that Murphy doesn't panic and ban all "elective" surgery,as I'm scheduled to have my hernia repaired on April 8th.
 

RU_DIO

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The trends are all going in the wrong direction.Hospitalizations in all three regions have taken a bump recently.A cynic would charge that the vaccinations don't work.To quote Walter Alston:"'It's too early to tell."

I just hope that Murphy doesn't panic and ban all "elective" surgery,as I'm scheduled to have my hernia repaired on April 8th.


Elective surgeries aren't going to be canceled with the small uptick in hospitalizations we are having at the moment. It is a little confusing though why hospitalizations are going up in NJ as I thought with the number of people vaccinated the number of infections would continue to drop. I would assume in a couple of months the numbers will plummet due to many people being vaccinated and the warmer weather.
 

rutgersdave

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Elective surgeries aren't going to be canceled with the small uptick in hospitalizations we are having at the moment. It is a little confusing though why hospitalizations are going up in NJ as I thought with the number of people vaccinated the number of infections would continue to drop. I would assume in a couple of months the numbers will plummet due to many people being vaccinated and the warmer weather.
The number of deaths have dropped significantly due to the vaccine since the older population and health care workers have received their shots. The younger population, thinking their older relatives are now safe, are willing to socialize more with their friends which increasing the covid cases and hospitalization believing they won’t die even if they get infected.
 
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RUevolution36

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Elective surgeries aren't going to be canceled with the small uptick in hospitalizations we are having at the moment. It is a little confusing though why hospitalizations are going up in NJ as I thought with the number of people vaccinated the number of infections would continue to drop. I would assume in a couple of months the numbers will plummet due to many people being vaccinated and the warmer weather.
This is anecdotal and what I've seen from the various circles I'm in, but now that vaccinations are more common, even the people who haven't been vaccinated are throwing caution to the wind, especially as the weather starts to warm up.
 

BigRnj

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Cause there are also stupid people, who don't understand the risk-reward of vaccines even in the medical field, although extraordinarily few doctors are anti-vax, because they know better - the much less educated medical staff in the field are far more prone to being persuaded by kooky conspiracy theories about vaccines, like yourself.

I appreciate the insight you have been sharing. We all run into and/or know folks that range from overly-concerned to anti-vaxers. Given that, IMO, most of their concern is about their perceived risks and does not even consider the impact on others. Given that, what are the 2 or 3 best points to share about why the vaccines are safe for those individuals reluctant to get vaccinated. I want to be ready to go with my response.

PS - Im scheduled for Moderna dose #2 next Wednesday. Dose #1 was no different than past tetanus shots and the 2 dose Shingris vaccine I received last year... soreness at the injection site.
 
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