OT: New York Mets 2022-2023 Off Season Thread
- Thread starter Tango Two
- Start date
My thought going into the offseason is why the **** do I watch The Mets for 6 months knowing damn well what the end result is going to be.
It’s like watching an RU home football game versus teams in a down year … at least RU did it once vs UM … might happen again in the next 5 years. Have a shot vs MSU this year (also 0-3 in conference and RU did beat them).
#KeepChopping
Why does this thread always start before the Yankees off-season one starts?
Someone should write a doctorial thesis on franchises that have sustained losing cultures, no matter what, and that continually make bad decisions regardless of how much they spend.
The Mets and Knicks would be exhibit 1a and 1b.
The Mets and Knicks would be exhibit 1a and 1b.
Extremely disappointing but not unexpected after Friday night. Starting pitchers were lined up for the Atlanta series then the wild card but they didn't perform as needed.
I was going to wait a day on this, but since we are starting to get into it, here's my annual postseason roster analysis. It includes 44 players: the 40-man roster, plus 3 on the 60-day IL, plus 1 Robinson Cano, the gift that keeps on giving.
(TL/DR: If Cohen wants to keep this team together, he will have to open the checkbook. Cohen can’t pay EVERYBODY, can he? Silly me, of course he can. But will he?)
Here goes:
GUARANTEED 2023 CONTRACTS - 8
Max Scherzer - $43.3M
Francisco Lindor - $32.5M
Starling Marte - $20.8M
Robinson Cano - $20.2M
James McCann - $12.2M
Mark Canha - $11.5M
Eduardo Escobar - $9.5M
Darin Ruf - $3M
PLUS Buyouts (Bassitt, Carrasco, Walker, Givens, Vogelbach, Curtiss) – approx. $8M
Yep, that’s a cool $161 mill committed to just eight players, one of whom is long gone. McCann and Ruf will likely be gone soon. To put it into perspective, that $161M would rank 12h in MLB 2022 payroll.
The buyouts come into play if options are declined. On that topic…
CONTRACTS WITH 2023 OPTIONS - 7
Jacob deGrom - $30.5M, player opt-out
Chris Bassitt - $19.0M, mutual option with minimal buyout
Carlos Carrasco - $14.0M, club option with $3.0M buyout
Taijuan Walker - $6.0M, player option with $3.0M buyout
Mychal Givens - $3.5M, mutual option with $1.5M buyout
Daniel Vogelbach - $1.5M, club option with minimal buyout
John Curtiss - $0.8M, club option with minimal buyout
Obviously deGrom is Issue 1. He has said all along that he will opt out and we have no reason to doubt him. He will no doubt view Scherzer’s contract as a floor. Will Cohen pay? And even if he will, does deGrom want out. We keep hearing Atlanta, which would truly suck.
Bassitt and Givens have contract with mutual options. This means that both parties must agree to exercise, which very rarely happens. Figure both will become free agents. Bassitt IMO is gone, never wanted to be here, will take less money elsewhere. Walker will certainly exercise his option, as it is way below market value. 'I have a feeling, based on nothing, that he wants to stay and Cohen will make it happen.
Mets will need to make a decision on Carrasco shortly after the close of the World Series. Given the uncertainty of the rest of the rotation, I think they’ll bring him back. They will certainly exercise their bargain basement option on Vogelbach, who will be Vogel-back.
John Curtiss is an injured reliever whom the Mets signed this year to have him next year. Maybe we will hear from him again, maybe not.
FREE AGENTS - 8
Edwin Diaz
Tommy Hunter
Seth Lugo
Trevor May
Brandon Nimmo
Tyler Naquin
Adam Ottavino
Trevor Williams
The key names here of course are Diaz and Nimmo. Both tough calls. Diaz is having career year #2, but relief pitchers are SO volatile. Dare the Mets go long on Diaz? Nimmo has been good, but is he the CF you want to lock up long term? Remember he is represented by Boras. Which means - show me the money. My guess is that Cohen will do so.
Ottavino is another interesting case. He’s been invaluable, but historically he’s been up and down. At age 37, can he put two up seasons back to back?
The others are expendable.
ARBITRATION ELIGIBLE - 11
Pete Alonso
Terrance Gore
Luis Guillorme
Yoan Lopez
Joey Lucchesi
Jeff McNeil
Tomas Nido
David Peterson
Joely Rodriguez
Dom Smith
Drew Smith
This list must be looked at from two perspectives. First, is there anyone who you might want to lock up now, before they get to free agency? Obviously Alonso comes to mind, and possibly McNeil. I would be shocked if Alonso seriously entertains any such discussions though. His pot of gold is only 2 years away. McNeil might be willing, but it takes two to tango.
At the other end of the spectrum, who gets non-tendered? IMO you must tender Guillorme, Nido, Peterson, Rodriguez and Drew Smith. What about forgotten man Dom Smith? Could be interesting.
PRE-ARB TEAM CONTROL - 10
Francisco Alvarez
Brett Baty
Jose Butto
Khalil Lee
Ronny Mauricio
Tylor Megill
Bryce Montes de Oca
Stephen Nogosek
Sean Reid-Foley
Mark Vientos
The two names that matter here are at the top of the list. I suspect Mauricio and Vientos are trade bait. Butto and Montes de Oca are worth watching. The list will be replenished by players who must be protected starting next year, such as Matthew Allan.
SO… that’s the roster as of now. We’ll see what it looks like in March!
(TL/DR: If Cohen wants to keep this team together, he will have to open the checkbook. Cohen can’t pay EVERYBODY, can he? Silly me, of course he can. But will he?)
Here goes:
GUARANTEED 2023 CONTRACTS - 8
Max Scherzer - $43.3M
Francisco Lindor - $32.5M
Starling Marte - $20.8M
Robinson Cano - $20.2M
James McCann - $12.2M
Mark Canha - $11.5M
Eduardo Escobar - $9.5M
Darin Ruf - $3M
PLUS Buyouts (Bassitt, Carrasco, Walker, Givens, Vogelbach, Curtiss) – approx. $8M
Yep, that’s a cool $161 mill committed to just eight players, one of whom is long gone. McCann and Ruf will likely be gone soon. To put it into perspective, that $161M would rank 12h in MLB 2022 payroll.
The buyouts come into play if options are declined. On that topic…
CONTRACTS WITH 2023 OPTIONS - 7
Jacob deGrom - $30.5M, player opt-out
Chris Bassitt - $19.0M, mutual option with minimal buyout
Carlos Carrasco - $14.0M, club option with $3.0M buyout
Taijuan Walker - $6.0M, player option with $3.0M buyout
Mychal Givens - $3.5M, mutual option with $1.5M buyout
Daniel Vogelbach - $1.5M, club option with minimal buyout
John Curtiss - $0.8M, club option with minimal buyout
Obviously deGrom is Issue 1. He has said all along that he will opt out and we have no reason to doubt him. He will no doubt view Scherzer’s contract as a floor. Will Cohen pay? And even if he will, does deGrom want out. We keep hearing Atlanta, which would truly suck.
Bassitt and Givens have contract with mutual options. This means that both parties must agree to exercise, which very rarely happens. Figure both will become free agents. Bassitt IMO is gone, never wanted to be here, will take less money elsewhere. Walker will certainly exercise his option, as it is way below market value. 'I have a feeling, based on nothing, that he wants to stay and Cohen will make it happen.
Mets will need to make a decision on Carrasco shortly after the close of the World Series. Given the uncertainty of the rest of the rotation, I think they’ll bring him back. They will certainly exercise their bargain basement option on Vogelbach, who will be Vogel-back.
John Curtiss is an injured reliever whom the Mets signed this year to have him next year. Maybe we will hear from him again, maybe not.
FREE AGENTS - 8
Edwin Diaz
Tommy Hunter
Seth Lugo
Trevor May
Brandon Nimmo
Tyler Naquin
Adam Ottavino
Trevor Williams
The key names here of course are Diaz and Nimmo. Both tough calls. Diaz is having career year #2, but relief pitchers are SO volatile. Dare the Mets go long on Diaz? Nimmo has been good, but is he the CF you want to lock up long term? Remember he is represented by Boras. Which means - show me the money. My guess is that Cohen will do so.
Ottavino is another interesting case. He’s been invaluable, but historically he’s been up and down. At age 37, can he put two up seasons back to back?
The others are expendable.
ARBITRATION ELIGIBLE - 11
Pete Alonso
Terrance Gore
Luis Guillorme
Yoan Lopez
Joey Lucchesi
Jeff McNeil
Tomas Nido
David Peterson
Joely Rodriguez
Dom Smith
Drew Smith
This list must be looked at from two perspectives. First, is there anyone who you might want to lock up now, before they get to free agency? Obviously Alonso comes to mind, and possibly McNeil. I would be shocked if Alonso seriously entertains any such discussions though. His pot of gold is only 2 years away. McNeil might be willing, but it takes two to tango.
At the other end of the spectrum, who gets non-tendered? IMO you must tender Guillorme, Nido, Peterson, Rodriguez and Drew Smith. What about forgotten man Dom Smith? Could be interesting.
PRE-ARB TEAM CONTROL - 10
Francisco Alvarez
Brett Baty
Jose Butto
Khalil Lee
Ronny Mauricio
Tylor Megill
Bryce Montes de Oca
Stephen Nogosek
Sean Reid-Foley
Mark Vientos
The two names that matter here are at the top of the list. I suspect Mauricio and Vientos are trade bait. Butto and Montes de Oca are worth watching. The list will be replenished by players who must be protected starting next year, such as Matthew Allan.
SO… that’s the roster as of now. We’ll see what it looks like in March!
Can you imagine if RU was playing for the B1G east championship at SHI and we did not sell out???? Well that happened tonight in NY. Just pointing it out because crowd size in NY/NJ is not the same measurement as it is in Lincoln Neb. Just much much more competition for the sports dollar - Just the way it is.
Interesting comment from Gary Cohen. Discussing free agents deGrom, Diaz, and Nimmo, "For me, I would prioritize Nimmo". Zeile agreed.
I posted the above in the season thread.
My thoughts:
1. They know Jake is gone and will minimally want $45 mil a year.
2. Stoppers are temperamental and will have good / bad years / short life span
3. Nimmo is the best CF on the market - excluding Judge who I don't deem to be a CF.
Being serious. The key for the Mets is to be smart enough to let DeGrom walk (if he opts out). They money can be spent much more wisely and on multiple players.
My thoughts on deGrom is that he's not gonna get any better and if anything will get worse with more starts like he had vs Oakland and Atlanta. So if he asks for a crazy amount of money you let him go albeit somewhat reluctantly. We need more power in the lineup. Any offense was very reliant on stringing 3 hits together with some walks and hbp thrown in. And stringing that amount of hits is not all that easy. Always nice is you can back up a man on base with a big fly from most batters in your lineup. The drop-off from Alonso and Lindor's 100+ rbi totals to then nobody else having even 70 was too large. More pop is absolutely needed.
I think you need to give Cohen some time. He basically just got here and most of the decisions have been good ones to improve the team and change the culture of the organization.
Mets should bring him back. He won 15 games. Only 10 other pitchers in MLB won 15 or more. Pitches a lot of innings. Not a top of rotation guy but a 3 or 4.
Bang the drum slowly, or is that garbage cans? 🤣
10.5 game lead bruh
It vanished
If you are referring to Bassitt, it's not up to the Mets. He holds a mutual option for 2023, meaning that BOTH parties need to invoke it. His pregame comments about NY being the toughest place to play, strongly suggests that he wants to be elsewhere.
If you are referring to Carrasco (who also won 15 games), then yes, the Mets hold a club option and it is their decision.
FWIW here's Andy Martino's read on who may or may not be back:
deGrom - No clue.
Diaz - Expects him back.
Nimmo - Mets want him back, but not at any price.
Lugo/May/Ottavino - They'll be part of a long list of veterans under consideration.
Walker - Doesn't think the Mets value him as highly as Diaz or Nimmo.
Bassitt - Will be considered.
deGrom - No clue.
Diaz - Expects him back.
Nimmo - Mets want him back, but not at any price.
Lugo/May/Ottavino - They'll be part of a long list of veterans under consideration.
Walker - Doesn't think the Mets value him as highly as Diaz or Nimmo.
Bassitt - Will be considered.
Bassitt stunk when it mattered most .
Twice !
And he had the arrogance to talk like he accomplished something as a big game pitcher.
He’s good as part of 162 . But if you’re gonna be in big games Good riddance .
When was the last time you guys got down to the final out of a season?
Asking for a friend..,
12 years and counting I believe. I'm guessing he could give Mets fans advice on how to handle playoff failure. Sure have had enough recently in the past 12 years,just saying.
The Mets played better than the Yankees during the streak the Mets lost that lead. Clearly the Yankees didn't have the Braves chasing them down to take it away, they were lucky to have Tampa and Toronto joke teams
A few weeks ago- deGrom was a must sign. But now, not so much.
Diaz wants to be back- move quick on him
Nimmo seems to want to be back but expect at least a Marte contract
Lugo/May/Ottavino- tough call on each but what else is out there?
Walker/Carrasco- I think you try to bring them both back as deGrom/Bassitt May be gone
The young guys- Met’s need to learn from Braves- sign your guys to 5+ years before arbitration- Braves would have had Alonso/McNeil/Nimmo locked up already
Yankees played just about 6-7 games behind the Mets during our so called collapse
with that said- it is for the benifit of the Amigos
can these ass hats just allow us to be pissed off at our team at this time instead of defending them..,
Geez, wish you'd back me a little more often,lol. That being said, it just annoys me how the Amigos NEVER go out on a limb with any prediction, go basement hiding for months at a time, and when it's safe to come out after another Mets collapse, they come out of the woodwork. No worries, I'll be there before the pain of another Yankees collapse has a chance to scab. It'll be my 1st post in that thread all year.
To your last point, the Braves had Strider under team control through 2027 anyway. With the extension, the Braves bought two more years of controi (one guaranteed, one club option). They also get price assurance during what would have been the arbitration years.
But in return, the Braves are taking on a lot of risk. Young pitchers are so volatile health-wise. This decision could be a masterstroke, or it could be an albatross hanging around their neck for years to come.
I recall when Met fans were clamoring to extend Matt Harvey! Lock him up for the rest of his career! How would that have worked out?
Very bad look for @RUfinally2008 Nothing more pathetic then once again having to spend October rooting for the team playing the Yankees rather then being able to actually root for your own team.
Same old Mets and their sad fanbase.
Same old Mets and their sad fanbase.
I wish I could back you more but you do go over there as the 1 amigo and try to troll more the those jerk bates.
I actually go over to just talk baseball until whitebus starts peeking over at my urinal..,
I liked him all year because he was a battler but in the Braves series and the playoffs he proved that NY is too big for him. I don’t care if he leaves to pitch for Oakland where no one watches the games nor cares.
How does the Degrom opt out work? Does he opt out then look for another deal? Is it possible that no team wants to pay him more than the current Mets contract going forward ($30 million?)? He looks to me like his career could end any minute. This could get interesting. Thanks for feedback. $$$$
Yes, if he opts out, which he certainly will do, he becomes an unrestricted free agent and can sign with anyone, including the Mets.
No, it is not possible that he won't get more than his current contract. I mean it is theoretically possible but it is not realistically possible.
If deGrom does not opt out, he is guaranteed $30.5MM for 2023, period. His 2024 salary of $32.5MM is at club option. But if he does opt out, at the very minimum somebody (likely the Mets) will guarantee him $70MM over two years. At the very minimum.
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