OT: Ongoing Golf Thread

jtung230

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There no regular Joe's on the long drive tour. That's where this going.
Name one guy from the tour that came from the long drive tour. I’m not saying long drive isn’t important but it is just one part of the equation. I personally think his one club length might be more game changing than his drives.
 

BigWill

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Yesterday I had my first bathroom emergency on a golf course. Fortunately, there was a Porto San near the 12th hole that was clean and equipped with toilet paper. From now on, however, I'm keeping a pack of baby wipes in my golf bag for similar emergencies. LOL .
Just don't use your N 95 mask, use the neck gaithers....
 
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Caliknight

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Name one guy from the tour that came from the long drive tour. I’m not saying long drive isn’t important but it is just one part of the equation. I personally think his one club length might be more game changing than his drives.
That's what Bryson is doing. Bringing the long drive elements to the tour. He studies those guys. Only he's also developed a sick short game.

That's the evolution. And this isn't new. The game has always evolved this way. Jack dominated because he was longer than everyone else and had a great short game. Tiger in early and in his prime, same thing. He could beat it farther than everyone else and had a great short game. Bryson is following that model. The next crop will most certainly be doing the same only even more.

Bryson putting a 48 inch driver in play at Augusta. If that works, and he is driving the ball 380-400 yards consistently, you can guarantee other guys are going to get on that same train. THey will have to. There is no other way to compete. It's just sports evolution. Golf is not and has never been immune to that.
 

BigWill

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Friend was on the PGA Tour, one of the shortest hitters off the tee, but played enough tournaments and scored well on the shorter layouts that demanded drives on the fairways to earn over $ 1 Million a year for many years, until he tried to change his swing and go longer and fouled up his back.
 

Knightmoves

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Friend was on the PGA Tour, one of the shortest hitters off the tee, but played enough tournaments and scored well on the shorter layouts that demanded drives on the fairways to earn over $ 1 Million a year for many years, until he tried to change his swing and go longer and fouled up his back.
The BD approach is not for everyone. A Corey Pavin type player is not a candidate for this approach.

But Bryson was a champion at every level of play, young, and has the physical size and tools to make it work.

AFAIK the old expression, Chicks love the long ball, is not going away. I’ve played with plenty of guys who could kill it off the tee but had very little game around the greens. 250-300 yards off the tee but end up shooting in the 90’s.

Skillful play around the greens is worth more than the long ball for most amateurs. But extreme length off the tee and a half decent short game works pretty well imo.
 
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Caliknight

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The BD approach is not for everyone. A Corey Pavin type player is not a candidate for this approach.

But Bryson was a champion at every level of play, young, and has the physical size and tools to make it work.

AFAIK the old expression, Chicks love the long ball, is not going away. I’ve played with plenty of guys who could kill it off the tee but had very little game around the greens. 250-300 yards off the tee but end up shooting in the 90’s.

Skillful play around the greens is worth more than the long ball for most amateurs. But extreme length off the tee and a half decent short game works pretty well imo.
There will be no such thing as a Corey Pavin anymore. The courses are getting longer, which are helping the big hitters even more. Not saying the longest guys will win every tournament but you have to be able to bomb the ball.

It's what Fitzgerald was complaining about. He knows he can't win being 50 yards behind some guys every par 4 and 5.
 
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RUevolution36

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There will be no such thing as a Corey Pavin anymore. The courses are getting longer, which are helping the big hitters even more. Not saying the longest guys will win every tournament but you have to be able to bomb the ball.

It's what Fitzgerald was complaining about. He knows he can't win being 50 yards behind some guys every par 4 and 5.
Fitzgerald has also added 10-15 yards to his driving stats from 2018 to this year. He averaged over 300 this year. That is not short. It's above tour average. He's just butt hurt.

On a separate note, Poulter also said some nonsensical crap about how there should be limitations on how low the loft on drivers should be. As if you can't control delivered loft...
 

jtung230

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That's what Bryson is doing. Bringing the long drive elements to the tour. He studies those guys. Only he's also developed a sick short game.

That's the evolution. And this isn't new. The game has always evolved this way. Jack dominated because he was longer than everyone else and had a great short game. Tiger in early and in his prime, same thing. He could beat it farther than everyone else and had a great short game. Bryson is following that model. The next crop will most certainly be doing the same only even more.

Bryson putting a 48 inch driver in play at Augusta. If that works, and he is driving the ball 380-400 yards consistently, you can guarantee other guys are going to get on that same train. THey will have to. There is no other way to compete. It's just sports evolution. Golf is not and has never been immune to that.
I'm with you on the evolution. Like you said, it's not new. But you can't revolutionize the game by doing something no one can copy. I do enjoy a different perspective. BD can win a lot of tournaments but I think the odds are against him over 4 days. You miss big when you hit it that long.
 

Knightmoves

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I'm with you on the evolution. Like you said, it's not new. But you can't revolutionize the game by doing something no one can copy. I do enjoy a different perspective. BD can win a lot of tournaments but I think the odds are against him over 4 days. You miss big when you hit it that long.
Did you happen to watch BD over 4 rounds at the recent 2020 US Open at Winged Foot? He won by 6 strokes.

The Masters next month will be interesting to watch how BD navigates Augusta Natl with his new length, both off the tee and into the greens. I wouldn’t bet him against him at this point.
 

Caliknight

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I'm with you on the evolution. Like you said, it's not new. But you can't revolutionize the game by doing something no one can copy. I do enjoy a different perspective. BD can win a lot of tournaments but I think the odds are against him over 4 days. You miss big when you hit it that long.
Everyone can get bigger and stronger. That's why people lift weights and train. He was 190 pound average length guy just two years ago. It's going to take commitment. But the blue print is set and has been. And it will go next level just as sports always do.
 
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DJYoshi

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Welcome to the game that you will absolutely love and hate in the same week! After 3 injuries, I've worked myself back down to a 5 handicap. Don't get caught up with distance. Don't get caught up with hyped technology. Get fitted properly for a set... and not at a retailer. Get fitted by a legit proper fitting specialist. My fitter is in Livingston so not too far from you. We spent 3 hours on irons heads and shafts. We tinkered between 10 shaft profiles, swing weights and 7 heads. Take a lesson if you can and remember have fun.

Hit me up if you want to play anytime.
 

jtung230

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Welcome to the game that you will absolutely love and hate in the same week! After 3 injuries, I've worked myself back down to a 5 handicap. Don't get caught up with distance. Don't get caught up with hyped technology. Get fitted properly for a set... and not at a retailer. Get fitted by a legit proper fitting specialist. My fitter is in Livingston so not too far from you. We spent 3 hours on irons heads and shafts. We tinkered between 10 shaft profiles, swing weights and 7 heads. Take a lesson if you can and remember have fun.

Hit me up if you want to play anytime.
Congrats on getting to a 5 hcp. Who’s your fitter in Livingston?
 

HALL85

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There will be no such thing as a Corey Pavin anymore. The courses are getting longer, which are helping the big hitters even more. Not saying the longest guys will win every tournament but you have to be able to bomb the ball.

It's what Fitzgerald was complaining about. He knows he can't win being 50 yards behind some guys every par 4 and 5.
It’s a fine line. Not everyone can do it. Spieth tried to change his swing to get another 15 to 20 yards out of his drive because he thought it would do him good in the long run. He hasn’t been the same golfer since.

On a separate note, I remember having a conversation with one of the fairway statisticians at Augusta during the practice round. They track every single shot from every single golfer and are constantly tinkering with the golf course so that no one has an unfair advantage. For instance, he told me when Tiger was dominating and bombing the ball, reaching the par fives in two with a short iron they moved the tee boxes so that more trees came in to play on his drive.

Length does matter though. Guys like Dechambeau, Koepka, Johnson have a distinct advantage during the majors given the conditions of the greens.
 

knightfan7

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Did you happen to watch BD over 4 rounds at the recent 2020 US Open at Winged Foot? He won by 6 strokes.

The Masters next month will be interesting to watch how BD navigates Augusta Natl with his new length, both off the tee and into the greens. I wouldn’t bet him against him at this point.
Looking forward to it. IMO it's not just length. It's knowing where to put your approach shots. When being off by a couple feet can mean the difference between a 15 foot putt and a 50 foot putt or even a 30 yard chip, you have to play smart and not be a hero on every shot.

If his putting is still on the level we saw during the Open he's going to be hard to beat.

Amen Corner gets the pub but personally I am just as interested in how the top guys get thru 8-10.
 

BigWill

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Hitting that high fade on iron approach shots to the hole is what scores at Augusta, so that you can fire at the birdie holes and shoot par at the 'impossible ' holes.
 

DJYoshi

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Congrats on getting to a 5 hcp. Who’s your fitter in Livingston?
Thank you so much. At my best I was a 2. Got hurt 3 times and lost about 30 yards of distance off of the tee and 2 club lengths in the irons. My fitter is apex golf. He spends hours eith you. Trackman and on range. I always do demo days at my club (Shackamaxon) but I go back to Apex for final fitting and ordering g
 
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RUBubba

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Thank you so much. At my best I was a 2. Got hurt 3 times and lost about 30 yards of distance off of the tee and 2 club lengths in the irons. My fitter is apex golf. He spends hours eith you. Trackman and on range. I always do demo days at my club (Shackamaxon) but I go back to Apex for final fitting and ordering g
Is Joe Bush still at Shackamaxon? Good guy. Used to play with him at Royce Brook.
 

Caliknight

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It’s a fine line. Not everyone can do it. Spieth tried to change his swing to get another 15 to 20 yards out of his drive because he thought it would do him good in the long run. He hasn’t been the same golfer since.

On a separate note, I remember having a conversation with one of the fairway statisticians at Augusta during the practice round. They track every single shot from every single golfer and are constantly tinkering with the golf course so that no one has an unfair advantage. For instance, he told me when Tiger was dominating and bombing the ball, reaching the par fives in two with a short iron they moved the tee boxes so that more trees came in to play on his drive.

Length does matter though. Guys like Dechambeau, Koepka, Johnson have a distinct advantage during the majors given the conditions of the greens.
He tried to change his swing. He didn't dedicate himself to putting on 40 lbs. and training his body. And he can't do it, then he won't compete. Because others will. That's the evolution of sports.
 

RUevolution36

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He tried to change his swing. He didn't dedicate himself to putting on 40 lbs. and training his body. And he can't do it, then he won't compete. Because others will. That's the evolution of sports.
i don't get how folks on this board are so vocal about our football players needing to put on weight to compete against the teams at the highest level on the OL, DL, and LB positions, but are so against bryson doing the same. all sports are about having skills and using the best tools you have for the job. your body is one of those tools.
 

Caliknight

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i don't get how folks on this board are so vocal about our football players needing to put on weight to compete against the teams at the highest level on the OL, DL, and LB positions, but are so against bryson doing the same. all sports are about having skills and using the best tools you have for the job. your body is one of those tools.
Agreed. Some people hold golfers to some weird standard. They are athletes. They are all trying to do whatever they can do to win, just like any other sport at that level. Bryson is just finding a better way.

Tiger did the same, and Jack before him. In 10 years there others are going to come along doing it even more.

We will see longdriver types on the PGA tour. It's only a matter of time.
 

jtung230

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i don't get how folks on this board are so vocal about our football players needing to put on weight to compete against the teams at the highest level on the OL, DL, and LB positions, but are so against bryson doing the same. all sports are about having skills and using the best tools you have for the job. your body is one of those tools.
Football is where all great athletes go when they don't have the skills for other sports. No one is against getting more fit. But I just don't think it's a direct correlation between strength and distance.
 

jtung230

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Thank you so much. At my best I was a 2. Got hurt 3 times and lost about 30 yards of distance off of the tee and 2 club lengths in the irons. My fitter is apex golf. He spends hours eith you. Trackman and on range. I always do demo days at my club (Shackamaxon) but I go back to Apex for final fitting and ordering g
Can't find any info on Apex Golf. Can you share website or contact info? Thanks in advance.
 

DJYoshi

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Can't find any info on Apex Golf. Can you share website or contact info? Thanks in advance.
908.644.4710.

Its been 2 years since my last fitting with them. If they're not available anymore then Tim Mosel Golf in Danville is the way to go. Tim is a Miura fitter too. Miura and PXG are the smoothest feeling and sexiest irons in golf IMO.
 

Caliknight

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PXG is already passe' imo. Miura's on the other hand...

Still gotta give love to the Titleist Concepts. Easiest, most distance irons I've ever hit.
 

raritan1

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Agreed. Some people hold golfers to some weird standard. They are athletes. They are all trying to do whatever they can do to win, just like any other sport at that level. Bryson is just finding a better way.

Tiger did the same, and Jack before him. In 10 years there others are going to come along doing it even more.

We will see longdriver types on the PGA tour. It's only a matter of time.
I am of the mind that it is time for the governing authorities (USGA, R&A, PGA Tour, PGA, Masters) to dial back the equipment standards. The only deterrent in golf is the course itself. Pros are routinely playing at 7500 yards; soon it’ll be 8000 yards or more. Most of the great courses are landlocked and have stretched the courses as far as they can. Augusta is stretching No 13 back into land they bought from Augusta CC, in yet another attempt to proof the course against the sluggers. Not every course can afford to keep buying land to keep up with the equipment.

The new equipment and balls are easier to hit longer, straighter and with the right trajectory. If that is true for hackers, then what does that mean for the pros. Combined with bigger athletes and precise Trackman data, the pro game has become bomb and gouge. The courses are defenseless.
 
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Caliknight

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I am of the mind that it is time for the governing authorities (USGA, R&A, PGA Tour, PGA, Masters) to dial back the equipment standards. The only deterrent in golf is the course itself. Pros are routinely playing at 7500 yards; soon it’ll be 8000 yards or more. Most of the great courses are landlocked and have stretched the courses as far as they can. Augusta is stretching No 13 back into land they bought from Augusta CC, in yet another attempt to proof the course against the sluggers. Not every course can afford to keep buying land to keep up with the equipment.

The new equipment and balls are easier to hit longer, straighter and with the right trajectory. If that is true for hackers, then what does that mean for the pros. Combined with bigger athletes and precise Trackman data, the pro game has become bomb and gouge. The courses are defenseless.
Stretching the courses out is only going to help the bombers. The equipment issue comes up in every sport. Lacrosse, Basketball talking of raising the hoop, football and helmets, baseball and the bats...I'd just as soon as see the equipment go as far as it can and see how good these guys can get.

How good was Jack Nicklaus? He was hitting the ball over 300 yards with a persimon driver.
 
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Knightmoves

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Stretching the courses out is only going to help the bombers. The equipment issue comes up in every sport. Lacrosse, Basketball talking of raising the hoop, football and helmets, baseball and the bats...I'd just as soon as see the equipment go as far as it can and see how good these guys can get.

How good was Jack Nicklaus? He was hitting the ball over 300 yards with a persimon driver.
If the PGA Tour established a restricted flight tournament ball for their events that will save tournament play at many tour stops imo.

The Masters will be an interesting case of the added length on the current tour. BD has a strong enough short game to attack the greens on almost every hole. Will be interesting to see if he can make it work.
 

raritan1

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Stretching the courses out is only going to help the bombers. The equipment issue comes up in every sport. Lacrosse, Basketball talking of raising the hoop, football and helmets, baseball and the bats...I'd just as soon as see the equipment go as far as it can and see how good these guys can get.

How good was Jack Nicklaus? He was hitting the ball over 300 yards with a persimon driver.
There is a reason why MLB doesn't allow metal bats. Baseball also raises the mounds, tightens the strike zone, deadens the ball, etc. to keep the integrity of the game.

Let me give you another example how the equipment has changed the game.

In 1950 Hogan hit one of the most famous shots in golf history -- a 213 yard 1 iron into the 18th at Merion to win the US Open. The hole was 458 yards at the time.

In 2013 at the Open won by Justin Rose, the hole measured 512 yards. If Bryson hit his normal 350 yard drive, he'd have about 160 left. He hits a pitching wedge 160 yards! A 1 iron vs. a pitching wedge. Yes, it was 70 years ago, but my point is that brawn alone doesn't account for a nine club difference.

When Merion was designed, the second shot on 18 was never intended to be a wedge but a long iron or wood.
 

Caliknight

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There is a reason why MLB doesn't allow metal bats. Baseball also raises the mounds, tightens the strike zone, deadens the ball, etc. to keep the integrity of the game.

Let me give you another example how the equipment has changed the game.

In 1950 Hogan hit one of the most famous shots in golf history -- a 213 yard 1 iron into the 18th at Merion to win the US Open. The hole was 458 yards at the time.

In 2013 at the Open won by Justin Rose, the hole measured 512 yards. If Bryson hit his normal 350 yard drive, he'd have about 160 left. He hits a pitching wedge 160 yards! A 1 iron vs. a pitching wedge. Yes, it was 70 years ago, but my point is that brawn alone doesn't account for a nine club difference.

When Merion was designed, the second shot on 18 was never intended to be a wedge but a long iron or wood.
Baseball is a dying game. I'm not sure I'd use them as an example. Even so, people said the used juiced baseballs during the 90's. And they don't use metal bats for one simple reason. They could kill the pitcher if they get hit given how hard the balls come off.

MLB wants home runs. There ratings are never higher. IF they could safely use metal bats, they would.
 

jtung230

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There is a reason why MLB doesn't allow metal bats. Baseball also raises the mounds, tightens the strike zone, deadens the ball, etc. to keep the integrity of the game.

Let me give you another example how the equipment has changed the game.

In 1950 Hogan hit one of the most famous shots in golf history -- a 213 yard 1 iron into the 18th at Merion to win the US Open. The hole was 458 yards at the time.

In 2013 at the Open won by Justin Rose, the hole measured 512 yards. If Bryson hit his normal 350 yard drive, he'd have about 160 left. He hits a pitching wedge 160 yards! A 1 iron vs. a pitching wedge. Yes, it was 70 years ago, but my point is that brawn alone doesn't account for a nine club difference.

When Merion was designed, the second shot on 18 was never intended to be a wedge but a long iron or wood.
What's the reason for MLB allowing guys to be on steroids? BD's hitting a PW 160 yds because it's the length of a 7I with the loft of a wedge.
 

RUevolution36

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I am of the mind that it is time for the governing authorities (USGA, R&A, PGA Tour, PGA, Masters) to dial back the equipment standards. The only deterrent in golf is the course itself. Pros are routinely playing at 7500 yards; soon it’ll be 8000 yards or more. Most of the great courses are landlocked and have stretched the courses as far as they can. Augusta is stretching No 13 back into land they bought from Augusta CC, in yet another attempt to proof the course against the sluggers. Not every course can afford to keep buying land to keep up with the equipment.

The new equipment and balls are easier to hit longer, straighter and with the right trajectory. If that is true for hackers, then what does that mean for the pros. Combined with bigger athletes and precise Trackman data, the pro game has become bomb and gouge. The courses are defenseless.
Or the Tour could not have the courses cut the fairway so short and dry them out so that they're hard as runways and get 30-50 yards of roll. When's the last time you played a course in NJ that you got that kind of rollout? Courses can have new natural hazards put in the landing areas for the pros that club golfers would never dream of reaching. Courses should be discouraged from clearcutting trees - the need for the gallery and paying customers is actually making the game easier for these guys. Watching the US Open and the US Am this year was really refreshing because the rough was the way it was originally intended, rather than trodden down by the thousands of fans who typically attend.

The Tour is silently encouraging bomb and gouge because the fans like it. They whinge about it publicly because that's what the fans want to hear. Players whinge about it because they aren't able or aren't willing to try to find more distance.
 

RUevolution36

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If the PGA Tour established a restricted flight tournament ball for their events that will save tournament play at many tour stops imo.

The Masters will be an interesting case of the added length on the current tour. BD has a strong enough short game to attack the greens on almost every hole. Will be interesting to see if he can make it work.
Restricted flight balls won't change the advantage that the long hitters have. If they go to an 80% ball, and Bryson's 340yds*80% = 272yds. Tour avg is around 295*80% = 236yds. He'd still be 36 yards ahead. That's roughly a 2.5 to 3 club advantage on approach.

People are stunned by scores relative to par that get shown on the leaderboard. But these guys aren't playing against that score. They're playing against each other's scores. So who cares if a guy is -15 and the next guy is -10? Would you feel better if it was -5 vs level? Guy still wins by 5 strokes.
 
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wisr01

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Football is where all great athletes go when they don't have the skills for other sports. No one is against getting more fit. But I just don't think it's a direct correlation between strength and distance.
Speed = Distance. How do you swing faster? Strength and flexibility...that is the core of any training program.
 

Rutgers85

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Dustin Johnson tested positive for covid. Finau tested positive last week. Just a FYI. Nothing political.