OT: Phil Rizutto, Pee Wee Reese, & Alvin Dark- contemporary NYC shortstops

[rudad02]

In another baseball trivia thread someone posted Alvin Dark as an answer. Made me think about Dark. As a die hard Dodger fan in Brooklyn I was all about Pee Wee. In the City the argument was always about Pee Wee vs Phil. They received the bulk of the press & publicity. And they are both in the Hall of Fame.

In retrospect, I believe that Dark should have made it into the Hall before them. Probably had the edge on both of them as a player. They all played about the same no of years, 13 & 14. Pee Wee hit .269, Phil hit .273 & Alvin hit .289. Plus Dark hit with more power. And as were the other two, he was an excellent shortstop. He was rookie of the year in 1948 with the Boston Braves hitting .324, the year the Braves lost in the Series to the Indians in 7. He was the starting NL All Star shortstop in '51,'52 & '54. And he was the long time captain of the Giants. And he was a money ballplayer, hitting in the over .400 in both series in which he played '51 & '54. He was just a hellava ballplayer. In addition he had a long & basically successful run as a Big League manager.

 

[JDNB]

Lived in Jersey, and was a Dodger fan (Mets now). This was my youth into teenage days. Had friends that were also Dodger fans, and , we went to games at Ebbets Field (56-57). We also went to the Polo Grounds, Connie Mack Stadium, and Roosevelt (Jersey City), when the Dodgers were there, on occasion.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Lived in Jersey, and was a Dodger fan (Mets now). This was my youth into teenage days. Had friends that were also Dodger fans, and , we went to games at Ebetts Field (56-57). We also went to the Polo Grounds, Connie Mack Stadium, and Roosevelt (Jersey City), when the Dodgers were there, on occasion.

My dad (from Bayonne) had a misspent youth sneaking into most of those places... I think the Polo Grounds were his main target in the late 1930s.

 

[RUTGERZ_R00LZ]

In another baseball trivia thread someone posted Alvin Dark as an answer. Made me think about Dark. As a die hard Dodger fan in Brooklyn I was all about Pee Wee. In the City the argument was always about Pee Wee vs Phil. They received the bulk of the press & publicity. And they are both in the Hall of Fame.

In retrospect, I believe that Dark should have made it into the Hall before them. Probably had the edge on both of them as a player. They all played about the same no of years, 13 & 14. Pee Wee hit .269, Phil hit .273 & Alvin hit .289. Plus Dark hit with more power. And as were the other two, he was an excellent shortstop. He was rookie of the year in 1948 with the Boston Braves hitting .324, the year the Braves lost in the Series to the Indians in 7. He was the starting NL All Star shortstop in '51,'52 & '54. And he was the long time captain of the Giants. And he was a money ballplayer, hitting in the over .400 in both series in which he played '51 & '54. He was just a hellava ballplayer. In addition he had a long & basically successful run as a Big League manager.

You make a good case for Alvin. I wonder if it's too late now for the HOF as voted by old-timers.

 

[knightfan7]

IIRC, Ted Williams was a major force in getting the Veteran's Committee to put Scooter in the Hall. He was a huge fan of Rizzuto.

 

[rudad02]

You make a good case for Alvin. I wonder if it's too late now for the HOF as voted by old-timers.

Don't know.

 

[hinson32]

Pee Wee has a career WAR of 63 Phil Rizzuto is at 42 and Alvin Dark is at 43. To me, Reese is a HOF player, Dark and Rizzuto are not.

 

[JDNB]

Pee Wee has a career WAR of 63 Phil Rizzuto is at 42 and Alvin Dark is at 43. To me, Reese is a HOF player, Dark and Rizzuto are not.

How about Gil Hodges? Looked it up 43.9

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

How about Gil Hodges? Looked it up 43.9

Good page going over Hodges' resume.. I think losing 3 prime years to go kill Nazis should put him in... along with his defense and breaking the then-record for Grand Slams... that's HOF stuff.

Did I say Nazis? Apparently it was the other SOBs...

...Hodges entered service with the Marine Corps. He was stationed at Pearl Harbor and then Kauai in the Hawaiian Islands where he played baseball with the 16th Anti-Aircraft Artillery Battalion. From there he went to Tinian. In April 1945, Sergeant Hodges landed with the assault echelon at Okinawa and was assigned to his battalion's operations and intelligence section. His Bronze Star citation states that he "was entrusted with the safeguarding and stenographic preparation of highly classified documents" through "extensive periods of enemy aerial alerts and extensive bombing attacks."
​

Even if you had backline duties on those islands you could easily get killed and especially as part of the assault on Okinawa... Japanese home territory.

 

[JDNB]

Good page going over Hodges' resume.. I think losing 3 prime years to go kill Nazis should put him in... along with his defense and breaking the then-record for Grand Slams... that's HOF stuff.

Only for his life being cut short, he would have been a great manager.

 

[RUinFla]

Rizzuto, Reese and Dark, but also for New York in those days, Mantle Mays and Snider. What an era, huh?

 

[Andy117]

In looking at his stats, I don't see a case for Dark in the Hall. Rizzuto shouldn't be in either.

 

[RUhasarrived]

Rizzuto, Reese and Dark, but also for New York in those days, Mantle Mays and Snider. What an era, huh?

About 100 miles South,Richie Ashburn caught more fly balls year in and year out.

 

[rudad02]

Pee Wee has a career WAR of 63 Phil Rizzuto is at 42 and Alvin Dark is at 43. To me, Reese is a HOF player, Dark and Rizzuto are not.

What is a WAR?

 

[rudad02]

Rizzuto, Reese and Dark, but also for New York in those days, Mantle Mays and Snider. What an era, huh?

Yes indeed! IMO the '50's into the early '60's were the best.

 

[RU_PAYBACK]

What is a WAR?

Wins Above Replacement? But don't ask me to explain it.... Google it.

 

[rudad02]

Wins Above Replacement? But don't ask me to explain it.... Google it.

Sounds like a bunch of BS, but I'll Google it.

 

[hinson32]

Rizzuto, Reese and Dark, but also for New York in those days, Mantle Mays and Snider. What an era, huh?

Don’t forget Campy and Yogi.

 

[rudad02]

Don’t forget Campy and Yogi.

Oh yeah, that was another one.

 

[RU#1fan]

Lived in Jersey, and was a Dodger fan (Mets now). This was my youth into teenage days. Had friends that were also Dodger fans, and , we went to games at Ebbets Field (56-57). We also went to the Polo Grounds, Connie Mack Stadium, and Roosevelt (Jersey City), when the Dodgers were there, on occasion.

My father is still a die hard Dodgers fan to this day.
Unfortunately they left him twice. The first time leaving Brooklyn when he was a kid and the second time in his retirement at Vero Beach ... the Dodgers Spring Training site for years. He actually worked as a grounds keeper there until they left for AZ.

 

[rudad02]

My father is still a die hard Dodgers fan to this day.
Unfortunately they left him twice. The first time leaving Brooklyn when he was a kid and the second time in his retirement at Vero Beach ... the Dodgers Spring Training site for years. He actually worked as a grounds keeper there until they left for AZ.

The Dodgers & Brooklyn were synonymous. They were a religion.