OT: Rooftop Solar Panels

[Big boy stan]

I have been talking with a company about getting panels put on my roof. Their deal is nothing down and a fixed payment per month for 25 years which guarantees to cover the first x killowatt hours with the utility picking up after that.

Anyone else have panels on their roof? If so did you buy them outright or work with a company like this? Any advice or warnings?

 

[OntheBanks]

This seems to be a good item for discussion. I'm not ready for solar panels but I'd like to hear more about it.
One thing that is stopping me is that we will have to replace our roof soon. I certainly don't want put up solar
panels only to have to remove them to put on a new roof.

 

[RUBubba]

One thing to watch is how your homeowners insurance carrier feels about them. Some companies don't want them or will only accept them if they cover less than 30% of your roof.

Can also make a difference as to who owns the panels, you or the company.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

https://www.tesla.com/solarroof

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Here's a 2019 story that might help organize thoughts..

https://www.nj.com/entertainment/2016/05/nj_home_makeover_gloucester_county_couple_updates.html

talk to different kinds of companies with different deals to see what you think might work for you. drive your neighborhood and look for others with panels on the same side roof as yours and see what their experience has been.. keep in mind a lot of people just want to justify choices they made... that's why the negative reviews should carry more weight.. people admitting to making mistakes.

 

[Big boy stan]

That article is similar to the deal in the article. We spent $1870 last year on about 10,000 KWH from PSE&G. The proposal is to put up 23 panels on my roof and guarantee me 10,000KWH for the year for $1536 ($128 per month). If I use more then the 10,000KWHs, I buy it from the utility.
Seems like a okay deal but the 25 years kinda scares me.
They are also offering a $1500 signing bonus which makes me feel like I am getting scammed.

 

[RU205]

That article is similar to the deal in the article. We spent $1870 last year on about 10,000 KWH from PSE&G. The proposal is to put up 23 panels on my roof and guarantee me 10,000KWH for the year for $1536 ($128 per month). If I use more then the 10,000KWHs, I buy it from the utility.
Seems like a okay deal but the 25 years kinda scares me.
They are also offering a $1500 signing bonus which makes me feel like I am getting scammed.

what happens if you move before the 25 years is up?

 

[koleszar]

I have been talking with a company about getting panels put on my roof. Their deal is nothing down and a fixed payment per month for 25 years which guarantees to cover the first x killowatt hours with the utility picking up after that.

Anyone else have panels on their roof? If so did you buy them outright or work with a company like this? Any advice or warnings?

Stan what I learned is the Solar companies have all the angles figured out to eventually get you. Unless you outright buy at some point the deal will sour for you. Maybe in 5 yrs., maybe 20, at some point the Solar company will get their money and then more.

Such as they don't tell you your insurance premiums will skyrocket because of fire insurance. When you go over your limit you'll buy from them at a premium price. The 25 yr. deal, well if you want to move you have to sell that package as well.

 

[DJ Spanky]

Stan what I learned is the Solar companies have all the angles figured out to eventually get you.

Yep, it is stacked against you.

 

[tom1944]

Stan what I learned is the Solar companies have all the angles figured out to eventually get you. Unless you outright buy and sell back excess to the power company at some point the deal will sour for. Maybe in 5 yrs., maybe 20, at some point the Solar company will get their money and then more.

Such as they don't tell you your insurance premiums will skyrocket because now if a fire happens there's no way to cut into the roof to vent. When you go over your limit you'll buy from them at a premium price. The 25 yr. deal, well if you want to move you have to sell that package as well.

That is my understanding. To make it work you need to buy the panels outright and then make sure you take care of several other aspects after that

 

[anvilofstars]

I don’t have panels myself, but have considered it for a while now. There have been a few outages lasting a few hours each and my options are solar panels with a battery or a gas generator of some kind. Obviously there are price differences, but the big benefit of solar is that it earns a little bit back every month.

I will eventually get them, but the problem with buying solar panels is that they do not raise property value, so if you get them, you have to be sure you are in a house where you will be staying for a while so the investment is worth it.

 

[T2Kplus10]

Yep, it is stacked against you.

Solar energy is a big scam, especially leasing programs.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

This guys goes through a lot of the solar scams and explains the best way to go solar:

 

[Knight Shift]

Stan what I learned is the Solar companies have all the angles figured out to eventually get you. Unless you outright buy at some point the deal will sour for you. Maybe in 5 yrs., maybe 20, at some point the Solar company will get their money and then more.

Such as they don't tell you your insurance premiums will skyrocket because now if a fire happens there's no way to cut into the roof to vent. When you go over your limit you'll buy from them at a premium price. The 25 yr. deal, well if you want to move you have to sell that package as well.

Have you heard this from an insurance adjuster?
IMO and experience roof venting happens infrequently and is overrated. There are multiple ways to achieve adequate ventilation without cutting a hole in the roof (windows, eaves, hydraulic ventilation (using a fog pattern from the firehouse out the window), doors, etc.

Think about this too. In two story homes, most rooms are on the second floor. Many fires start in kitchens and in furnaces (usually located in basements, but sometimes in attics). If a fire should start in a bedroom and there is an attic overhead, the fire would have to be going pretty good to penetrate the sheetrock. And if it did, the house is probably a goner anyway and venting the roof is not going to significantly change the amount of loss.

I could be off base here, but found your statement surprising.

 

[gef21]

Unless you can buy the panels it is a scam. Do not lease.

 

[koleszar]

Have you heard this from an insurance adjuster?
IMO and experience roof venting happens infrequently and is overrated. There are multiple ways to achieve adequate ventilation without cutting a hole in the roof (windows, eaves, hydraulic ventilation (using a fog pattern from the firehouse out the window), doors, etc.

Think about this too. In two story homes, most rooms are on the second floor. Many fires start in kitchens and in furnaces (usually located in basements, but sometimes in attics). If a fire should start in a bedroom and there is an attic overhead, the fire would have to be going pretty good to penetrate the sheetrock. And if it did, the house is probably a goner anyway and venting the roof is not going to significantly change the amount of loss.

I could be off base here, but found your statement surprising.

Might have just inferred the last part. Why else would a fire fighter have to be on the roof? Maybe can't fight fire properly? But one of the reasons given to us on why our insurance would go up was do to firefighters restricted access to the roof.

Or do you guys just hang out up there smoking doobies and drinking beer(well not in your case) while the fire rages?:)

 

[rubaseball78]

Check out GAF's Deco Tech. Whoever you chose to install make sure you ask him how he will preserve your roof warranty. When we first got involved in solar, we realized most installers were invalidating homeowners warranties on their roof.

 

[Knight Shift]

Might have just inferred the last part. Why else would a fire fighter have to be on the roof? Maybe can't fight fire properly? But one of the reasons given to us on why our insurance would go up was do to firefighters restricted access to the roof.

Or do you guys just hang out up there smoking doobies and drinking beer(well not in your case) while the fire rages?:)

In theory (and principle), properly coordinated ventilation is a thing of beauty (and necessity) for the firefighters working on the inside. If there is a large body of fire, once water is applied, the conditions on the fire floor can be a brutal with the heat and the moisture. When done correctly, ventilation coordinated with application of water to the fire can be a thing of beauty--it's physics/thermodynamics in action.
I was on the roof of this job about 10 years ago, somewhere between the front and side windows. Cut the hole with a saw, take a long "hook" and punch an opening through the sheetrock ceiling, and the brothers working in the below love you for it. A little more exciting than my day job, and thankfully, these types of situations are few and far between.

 

[DJ Spanky]

Or do you guys just hang out up there smoking doobies and drinking beer(well not in your case) while the fire rages?:)

Don't forget toasting marshmallows!

 

[RUBubba]

The additional weight on the roof is a concern and the firefighters will get pulled out of the home quicker.

 

[pmvon]

This seems to be a good item for discussion. I'm not ready for solar panels but I'd like to hear more about it.
One thing that is stopping me is that we will have to replace our roof soon. I certainly don't want put up solar
panels only to have to remove them to put on a new roof.

If you have to replace the roof and you are interested in solar, look at the Tesla roof.

 

[tom1944]

This guys goes through a lot of the solar scams and explains the best way to go solar:

View embedded media

I have been considering buying a solar panel system but since my monthly electric budget is a $170 a month it does not make sense given his statement of unless you spend $200 a month solar does not benefit you.

 

[tom1944]

There is a house on Wright-Debow Road near the Jackson/Freehold border that has the solar panels on the ground. The yards in that area are large enough that it works. I wonder what the pro and cons are of ground level panels

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

Unless you can buy the panels it is a scam. Do not lease.

This. Is correct.

 

[Eagleton96]

This. Is correct.

I don't think that's true at all. I know lots of people doing just fine on leases/power purchase agreements. A lease actually takes the pressure off because they are on the hook for their performance, not you. I've never heard of anyone getting scammed in NJ, or insurance rates going up. Just make sure you go with a reputable company. If you want some good unbiased advice, go to energysage.com. They don't sell solar, they give advice on solar.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

I've had solar power for about 5 years. I'm a big fan, but live in California.

I looked at a number of options, but this is #1: Don't lease. The lease program is BS. If you are serious about solar, buy the system. If need be, get a HELOC or other loan. I calculated the system would be paid off in about 7 years. Over the five years I've owned, there has been zero maintenance. I expect 30 years for the panels and 10-12 for the inverter.

Don't know the costs are these days, but I understand the costs come down some each year. There may be state and federal tax credits.

The only thing I don't like is the power goes into the grid and the utility supplies the power to my home. If I could, I would buy a battery pack and get off the grid, but that isn't an option where I live.

I would do it over again in a heartbeat. I spend about $2,000 less per year on electricity. My wife is getting a Tesla, so the electric bill may go up a bit, but the electric cost will be minimal if at all. Would be awesome if I could use the solar system to power the car (doubtful), but would be cool because the solar power produced is DC.

I suggest calling around to the solar companies. I used Sun Run (very happy - would recommend). First Solar is another company. They can look at your house on Google Maps and give you an estimate over the phone or email. Shop around. Talk to any neighbors who may have a solar system and ask them about their experience.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

I don't think that's true at all. I know lots of people doing just fine on leases/power purchase agreements. A lease actually takes the pressure off because they are on the hook for their performance, not you. I've never heard of anyone getting scammed in NJ, or insurance rates going up. Just make sure you go with a reputable company. If you want some good unbiased advice, go to energysage.com. They don't sell solar, they give advice on solar.

IMO, the lease options are far inferior to owning. In any case, anyone considering solar should read up and talk to as many homeowners who already have a solar system.

https://www.consumerreports.org/energy-saving/real-cost-of-leasing-vs-buying-solar-panels/

 

[gef21]

I don't think that's true at all. I know lots of people doing just fine on leases/power purchase agreements. A lease actually takes the pressure off because they are on the hook for their performance, not you. I've never heard of anyone getting scammed in NJ, or insurance rates going up. Just make sure you go with a reputable company. If you want some good unbiased advice, go to energysage.com. They don't sell solar, they give advice on solar.

The issue becomes roof repair or selling your home. The agreements have them literally owning your roof.

 

[RU Golfer]

what happens if you move before the 25 years is up?

Full disclosure, I do not have Solar. A few years back when it was vaguely being explained to me by a sales rep, in a round about way he pretty much said they control your roof once you sign the lease. With that said if you go to move their shit stays on the roof and the potential buyer has to agree to the terms. At that point I walked away as that in my mind would limit any potential market for your home if you were to sell.

 

[mdMoose]

It looks like if you were to do it (lease or buy) you should go with Tesla as they will take them back for $1,500 if the buyer doesn't agree to take on the panels when they purchase.

The other companies require you to payoff the remaining years of the contract which could be up to $20,000.

On the other hand I have heard that Tesla has struggled getting their products installed and have canceled many preorders.

There used to be a solar installer who would post here. I wonder what his current thoughts are.

 

[tom1944]

Full disclosure, I do not have Solar. A few years back when it was vaguely being explained to me by a sales rep, in a round about way he pretty much said they control your roof once you sign the lease. With that said if you go to move their shit stays on the roof and the potential buyer has to agree to the terms. At that point I walked away as that in my mind would limit any potential market for your home if you were to sell.

So for someone in an area with acreage placing the panels at ground level could make sense?

 

[RU Golfer]

So for someone in an area with acreage placing the panels at ground level could make sense?

As previously stated I am no expert in this area. The one thing I was told was do not lease them, I am going to have to defer to the SMEs on this topic. All basically comes down to who owns the Energy Credits, at least that is what I recall.

 

[knightflight]

I own my own small solar company and have for the past 11 years. I have seen many technological advances and many regulatory changes. One thing that hasn’t changed is my opinion on solar leases - Stay Away! Why would anyone sign a 37 page 20-25 year lease agreement where your rate goes up 2.9% a year, the panels produce .08% less a year, your roof has a one year warranty against roofs and you give away leverage when trying to sell your home with the stipulation that the buyer has to assume the balance of the lease. These companies employ high pressure, time share type salespeople to doop you.

The only way solar makes sense is to own the system. With the combination of the federal tax credits, state incentives ($ for every megawatt of power generated for 15 years), and electric savings, you can get your original investment back within 5-7 years with a 25 year warranty. Then you're generating your own positive cash flow.

I won’t even plug my company here. Just consider this a public service to my fellow Scarlet Knights.

 

[RU Golfer]

Here is a site that I used a few years back when I was casually looking into it. They have lots of good information, calculators, reviews etc.....

https://www.solarreviews.com/solar-panel-reviews/

Tesla Solar Panel review

https://www.solarreviews.com/blog/are-tesla-solar-panels-the-best-option

Tesla Solar Roof (shingles) overview

https://www.solarreviews.com/blog/what-are-the-pros-and-cons-of-solar-shingles

 

[Eagleton96]

The issue becomes roof repair or selling your home. The agreements have them literally owning your roof.

It's a positive, not a negative, to have cheaper energy. At worst it's a wash. Also, most of the agreements I've seen have ample outs for the homeowner.

 

[Eagleton96]

IMO, the lease options are far inferior to owning. In any case, anyone considering solar should read up and talk to as many homeowners who already have a solar system.

https://www.consumerreports.org/energy-saving/real-cost-of-leasing-vs-buying-solar-panels/

I agree that owning is better. The reason they are offering the lease option is that they think they are going to make money. They are saying you a little, and then making more for themselves. So if you own, you get all the benefit directly. Having said that, they are accepting a lot of risk. If something goes wrong, they are responsible.

 

[Extra Point]

Instead of getting solar, is there a way you guys can cut down on your electric bill? I converted to leds, stretch the dishes and laundry longer and my latest electric savings experiment is installing a few battery operated motion lights that go on instead of me turning on all the hall lights at night when I get up. I guess if one has kids, saving electricity would be impossible. Personally I would never consider putting solar panels on my roof. Getting good roofers, or a roof that doesn't leak is a challenge these days even without the extra holes of solar panel mounts.

 

[Morgancolin]

We got a new roof last year and now we're debating getting solar power. Also, recommend my blog about solar panels websolarguide.com/how-is-solar-power-harnessed/

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

I own my own small solar company and have for the past 11 years. I have seen many technological advances and many regulatory changes. One thing that hasn’t changed is my opinion on solar leases - Stay Away! Why would anyone sign a 37 page 20-25 year lease agreement where your rate goes up 2.9% a year, the panels produce .08% less a year, your roof has a one year warranty against roofs and you give away leverage when trying to sell your home with the stipulation that the buyer has to assume the balance of the lease. These companies employ high pressure, time share type salespeople to doop you.

The only way solar makes sense is to own the system. With the combination of the federal tax credits, state incentives ($ for every megawatt of power generated for 15 years), and electric savings, you can get your original investment back within 5-7 years with a 25 year warranty. Then you're generating your own positive cash flow.

I won’t even plug my company here. Just consider this a public service to my fellow Scarlet Knights.

Excellent post. I'm wondering about solar technology itself. Are the panels becoming more efficient over time? Also, inverters - what's been your experience on how long they truly last?

 

[knightflight]

Excellent post. I'm wondering about solar technology itself. Are the panels becoming more efficient over time? Also, inverters - what's been your experience on how long they truly last?

Panels have steadily become more efficient over time producing more energy per square foot of panel, but at some point the cost outweighs the gain. SunPower is the leader in this regard and is only practical where there is limited space. Solar shingles are still in their infancy stage and not ready for prime time. I would not use of recommend any first generation product.

There are centralized inverters and micro inverters. Centralized inverters takes the string of panels and converts the power from dc to ac. These generally carry with it a 15 year warranty. My experience with these inverters are that they fail well before the warranty period expires. When it fails the system is down. Shading on one panel also reduces the production for all other panels on the shared string. These inverters are now more common in commercial applications.

Micro-inverters are superior in efficiency and warranty - 25 years. If one fails it only impacts one panel as each panel has its own inverter. You can also monitor each panel as each microinverter has its own ip address and these first generation microinverters have failed. The newer generation micro inverters are much more reliable. Cost per watt is about the same for each type of inverter. Microinverters are a little more costly but generally offset by labor savings and the superior warranty is well worth it.