OT: Stanford athletics budget cuts

[newell138]

Interesting read on Stanford athletic cuts. Even after the students raised more than enough to pay for their teams to stay active the school still said no soup for you

When the Faculty Lounge Goes After College Sports | National Review

A growing number of college administrators are trying to convince students, alumni, and donors that the time has come to eliminate college sports.

www.nationalreview.com

 

[RUTGERZ_R00LZ]

Some people just don't get it.

 

[anon_ivydyf0amkzay]

Have you ever wondered why Stanford ALWAYS (I MEAN ALWAYS) wins the directors cup?

 

[e5fdny]

Fall
Football
Field Hockey
M/W Soccer
M/W Cross Country

Winter
M/W Basketball
M/W Indoor Track
Wrestling
Gymnastics

Spring
M/W Lacrosse
M/W Track and Field
Baseball
Softball

That’s my list. You can add WVolleyball in there too somewhere.

And the only one I’d add would be the Men’s side for Swimming and Diving.

As Stanford has shown, it’s really NOT about the money anymore since the sports they cut did raised enough to be self funding.

 

[HeavenUniv.]

Would be funny if the Stanford Alumni who have raised the money to save these sports and been spit on by their own administration turned around and donated to another California school to start programs—Southern Cal, UCLA, Cal-Berkeley, San Diego State, Fresno State, Saint Mary’s, Pepperdine, Cal Poly, Loyola, UCxyz, Cal State xyz

 

[koleszar]

Fall
Football
Field Hockey
M/W Soccer
M/W Cross Country

Winter
M/W Basketball
M/W Indoor Track
Wrestling
Gymnastics

Spring
M/W Lacrosse
M/W Track and Field
Baseball
Softball

That’s my list. You can add WVolleyball in there too somewhere.

And the only one I’d add would be the Men’s side for Swimming and Diving.

As Stanford has shown, it’s really NOT about the money anymore since the sports they cut did raised enough to be self funding.

And you've just become Title IX noncompliant. Where would you like your lawsuit and subsequent fine sent to? Your home address or office?

 

[rutgersdave]

Stanford Athletics varsity sport reductions: FAQ | Stanford News

Questions and answers regarding the details of a Stanford Athletics varsity sports reduction.

news.stanford.edu

Stanford will discontinue 11 of our varsity sports programs at the conclusion of the 2020-21 academic year: men’s and women’s fencing, field hockey, lightweight rowing, men’s rowing, co-ed and women’s sailing, squash, synchronized swimming, men’s volleyball and wrestling.

Going from 36 sports to 25 when the average Division I has 18 sports. 850 student athletes are 12% of the undergraduate population. I don’t see a problems with the cuts, instead of giving scholarships to athletes it might be better for academic achievements. Most of those sports are for rich people, another way for the rich to bypass the rules.

 

[BigLou]

Sailing is on the list due to the embarrassment from when their coach was duped by that guy running the college admission scram.

 

[e5fdny]

And you've just become Title IX noncompliant. Where would you like your lawsuit and subsequent fine sent to? Your home address or office?

Right now for my list there are 3 more women’s programs than men. The real list now for Athletics has even more of a W>M slant.

Football really shouldn’t be used, especially at the P5 level, since if it wasn’t for it a lot of others sports (M and W) wouldn’t exist.

Up to 20 is enough, anything over is too much and don’t matter.

 

[ecojew]

Athletic teams help bind students to the university. Probably a good chunk of that $30 million raised by the student-athletes to save their teams came from the alums who played on those teams as students. One wonders how generous those alums will be in the future the next time Stanford calls for donations after the university ignored their wishes to save their sport. This calls to mind the reaction among Rutgers alumni of men's crew when that was cut or the uproar from Princeton wrestling alumni when their sport was eliminated in the 1980s (?). One of the wrestling alums worked in Princeton's development office! It was ultimately re-instated but I was gone by then and don't know what happened.

Stanford, like Princeton, is a money-mill. It has an endowment in excess of $30 billion and recently completed a $4 billion capital fund campaign ahead of schedule and in excess of the goal. So why, now, risk alienating groups of alumni and students?

And, in response to some here who feel these sports "are not important," I disagree. They're important to those who participate in them, just as myriad other student activities - none of which produce revenue - are important to the students who participate in them. Stanford purports to offer the "complete student experience." It seems a little less complete right now than it was.

 

[rubaseball78]

Having two daughters who both played in what you consider rich white people's sports, I find your statement extremely offensive from multiple view points.

 

[e5fdny]

Having two daughters who both played in what you consider rich white people's sports, I find your statement extremely offensive from multiple view points.

I’m assuming (hoping actually) he’s playing the part of Stanford here and saying that’s their reasoning.

 

[mdk01]

I’m assuming (hoping actually) he’s playing the part of Stanford here and saying that’s their reasoning.

I don't think so. Interesting also is the assumption on his part the the athletes competing in these sports are academically unqualified. Also interesting that the data supplied in the NR article says that the wrestling team had a large proportion of students who come from low income families who are the first to attend college.

 

[e5fdny]

I don't think so. Interesting also is the assumption on his part the the athletes competing in these sports are academically unqualified. Also interesting that the data supplied in the NR article says that the wrestling team had a large proportion of students who come from low income families who are the first to attend college.

I think the most interesting thing about this is how the cut sports raised their own money, all of it ($30M!) and Stanford still said no.

Something is afoot.

 

[DJ Spanky]

I’m assuming (hoping actually) he’s playing the part of Stanford here and saying that’s their reasoning.

I doubt it: he's that type.

 

[anon_ivydyf0amkzay]

I would add to your last statement the word white, "Most of those sports are for rich white people, another way for rich whites to bypass the rules." Those sports are the epidemy of white privilege, they should be eliminated at all levels within the American educational system.

“Epidemy” huh? 😆 who knew those sports behaved like disease...

 

[socaldave]

I would add to your last statement the word white, "Most of those sports are for rich white people, another way for rich whites to bypass the rules." Those sports are the epidemy of white privilege, they should be eliminated at all levels within the American educational system.

This comment is the definition of racism

 

[colbert17]

Stanford Athletics varsity sport reductions: FAQ | Stanford News

Questions and answers regarding the details of a Stanford Athletics varsity sports reduction.

news.stanford.edu

Stanford will discontinue 11 of our varsity sports programs at the conclusion of the 2020-21 academic year: men’s and women’s fencing, field hockey, lightweight rowing, men’s rowing, co-ed and women’s sailing, squash, synchronized swimming, men’s volleyball and wrestling.

Going from 36 sports to 25 when the average Division I has 18 sports. 850 student athletes are 12% of the undergraduate population. I don’t see a problems with the cuts, instead of giving scholarships to athletes it might be better for academic achievements. Most of those sports are for rich people, another way for the rich to bypass the rules.

Maybe I'm missing something but what rules are they bypassing?

 

[colbert17]

I would add to your last statement the word white, "Most of those sports are for rich white people, another way for rich whites to bypass the rules." Those sports are the epidemy of white privilege, they should be eliminated at all levels within the American educational system.

Which are the black sports? Which are the Asian sports? I was just wondering in what category particular sports should be placed.
Just for fun I looked at Stanfod's fencing teams rosters. Since we want to talk racial breakdown? Let's do so.

Women's Fencing
White - 4
Hispanic - 1
Asian - 11 (2 from NJ)

Men's Fencing
White - 5
Asian - 9

I guess Fencing is not a White but an Asian sport?
As far as eliminating them at all levels my son was a fencer in high school in New Jersey. His team mates were 90% Asian. I will confess to being White but I'm far from being rich.
Did a little research on scholarships at Stanford. As you can see there are 30 student /athletes at Stanford who fence. There are only four fencing scholarships.

 

[BigWill]

This comment is the definition of racism

The Greatest Player in the history of a Rich White Man's Sport; Lacrosse.

Jimmy Brown.

 

[colbert17]

I would add to your last statement the word white, "Most of those sports are for rich white people, another way for rich whites to bypass the rules." Those sports are the epidemy of white privilege, they should be eliminated at all levels within the American educational system.

“Epidemy” huh? 😆 who knew those sports behaved like disease...

Reminds me of Mark Twain: "Better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt."

 

[colbert17]

I guess the mods removed some posts. Pity as I was hoping for a response to my questions.

 

[RUforlife]

Which are the black sports? Which are the Asian sports? I was just wondering in what category particular sports should be placed.
Just for fun I looked at Stanfod's fencing teams rosters. Since we want to talk racial breakdown? Let's do so.

Women's Fencing
White - 4
Hispanic - 1
Asian - 11 (2 from NJ)

Men's Fencing
White - 5
Asian - 9

I guess Fencing is not a White but an Asian sport?
As far as eliminating them at all levels my son was a fencer in high school in New Jersey. His team mates were 90% Asian. I will confess to being White but I'm far from being rich.
Did a little research on scholarships at Stanford. As you can see there are 30 student /athletes at Stanford who fence. There are only four fencing scholarships.

If you have to ask why almost all the sports they are killing, except wrestling, are historically sports for wealthy whites than you are most likely part of the problem and not the solution.

Black Lives Matter!

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Stanford Athletics varsity sport reductions: FAQ | Stanford News

Questions and answers regarding the details of a Stanford Athletics varsity sports reduction.

news.stanford.edu

Stanford will discontinue 11 of our varsity sports programs at the conclusion of the 2020-21 academic year: men’s and women’s fencing, field hockey, lightweight rowing, men’s rowing, co-ed and women’s sailing, squash, synchronized swimming, men’s volleyball and wrestling.

Going from 36 sports to 25 when the average Division I has 18 sports. 850 student athletes are 12% of the undergraduate population. I don’t see a problems with the cuts, instead of giving scholarships to athletes it might be better for academic achievements. Most of those sports are for rich people, another way for the rich to bypass the rules.

When you mean "most of the sports are for white people".. just say it.

 

[rutgersdave]

When you mean "most of the sports are for white people".. just say it.

If that’s what you think, I wasn’t thinking about color. I personally think more high schools and colleges need to cut more sports out of their schools. Way to much emphasis on sports.

Everybody cries about the cost of education. Cut the sports out. It’s already happening.

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

Right now for my list there are 3 more women’s programs than men. The real list now for Athletics has even more of a W>M slant.

Football really shouldn’t be used, especially at the P5 level, since if it wasn’t for it a lot of others sports (M and W) wouldn’t exist.

Up to 20 is enough, anything over is too much and don’t matter.

Title IX looks at scholarship counts not number of programs.

But where did you have 3 more women's sports in your original list? Only saw volleyball thrown in at the end.
Everything else looked to be equal.

 

[bac2therac]

I doubt it: he's that type.

low information reader of yahoo

 

[colbert17]

If you have to ask why almost all the sports they are killing, except wrestling, are historically sports for wealthy whites than you are most likely part of the problem and not the solution.

Black Lives Matter!

No the problem is that people want to categorize sports just like they want to categorize people and divide them by race. I'll agree that many of these sports are connected to a person's level of financial success such as sailing for example. I think that you would agree that for many years tennis and golf were sports , and I'll use your terms, were for wealthy whites. Well Tiger Woods and the Williams sisters shattered that myth didn't they?
By using your slogan at the end leads me to ask this question. What does a rich kid, and for the sake of argument, who is white and on the sailing team at Stanford have to due with black lives matter? By telling that kid that there no longer will be a team stop one incident of a black American's fatal encounter with the police? Will it prevent one of the dozens of drive by shootings that happens every weekend in Chicago? Or help save a kid who never knew who was father was and whose mother is a junkie and goes to a s***hole school and has to worry about getting home safe at night?
The problem here isn't the Stanford sailing team. The problem is people who feel that taking away something from someone will comfort some type of misplaced guilt which they've decided to burden them selves with.
And what about the 20 Asian kids on the fencing team? They're not White are they? Will taking that sport away from them help solve ANY problem of racial injustice that this country might have? Wouldn't the scraping of the fencing team target Asian kids disproportionately? I would venture to guess that is the only team at Stanford that is predominatly Asian. Isn't that a case of racial injustice?
I would say yes.What say you?

 

[e5fdny]

Title IX looks at scholarship counts not number of programs.

But where did you have 3 more women's sports in your original list? Only saw volleyball thrown in at the end.
Everything else looked to be equal.

I left off the swimming and diving in the first and something else I can’t remember. LOL

But as long as football is treated “equal” my idea is nothing more than a wish list. Because Title IX in this aspect should be the opportunity to play, not play for free.

And while I probably wouldn’t have said it the same way another poster did in the thread I do agree with the premise there are too many sports offered and the seasons are too long.

 

[RUTGERS95]

strip universities of non profit status, force them to use the endowments on lowering tuition, expenses, fund athletics,

this should be the discussion

 

[mdk01]

If that’s what you think, I wasn’t thinking about color. I personally think more high schools and colleges need to cut more sports out of their schools. Way to much emphasis on sports.

Everybody cries about the cost of education. Cut the sports out. It’s already happening.

How much does it cost Stanford if alumni fully fund the sport?

 

[RUforlife]

No the problem is that people want to categorize sports just like they want to categorize people and divide them by race. I'll agree that many of these sports are connected to a person's level of financial success such as sailing for example. I think that you would agree that for many years tennis and golf were sports , and I'll use your terms, were for wealthy whites. Well Tiger Woods and the Williams sisters shattered that myth didn't they?
By using your slogan at the end leads me to ask this question. What does a rich kid, and for the sake of argument, who is white and on the sailing team at Stanford have to due with black lives matter? By telling that kid that there no longer will be a team stop one incident of a black American's fatal encounter with the police? Will it prevent one of the dozens of drive by shootings that happens every weekend in Chicago? Or help save a kid who never knew who was father was and whose mother is a junkie and goes to a s***hole school and has to worry about getting home safe at night?
The problem here isn't the Stanford sailing team. The problem is people who feel that taking away something from someone will comfort some type of misplaced guilt which they've decided to burden them selves with.
And what about the 20 Asian kids on the fencing team? They're not White are they? Will taking that sport away from them help solve ANY problem of racial injustice that this country might have? Wouldn't the scraping of the fencing team target Asian kids disproportionately? I would venture to guess that is the only team at Stanford that is predominatly Asian. Isn't that a case of racial injustice?
I would say yes.What say you?

I don't want to get in an argument with you. You obviously do not recognize and understand the obstacles and oppression African Americans have faced at all levels in sports. I will point you to an excellent book that you might want to read if you want to educate yourself on the subject matter. https://theundefeated.com/features/book-playing-while-white-examines-privilege-on-and-off-the-field/

Black Lives Matter!

 

[mdk01]

strip universities of non profit status, force them to use the endowments on lowering tuition, expenses, fund athletics,

this should be the discussion

Half of that is right and half totally ****ed up. Did you forget that the 2017 tax bill set up a small excise tax on the investment income for universities with large endowments? Take away not for profit and they'd pay somewhere between 20% and 37% on alumni gifts. FUBAR !!!!! Sen. Grassley had an interesting idea just before the great recession hit in 2007 to prevent "endowment hoarding". He wanted to apply the rules of private foundations to universities. Specifically, they would have to spend 5% of their endowment, valued annually, on operating expenses. If they spent less they would pay an excise tax. It never happened because:

a. The Ivies , Stanford and Duke all sweetened their financial aid package and made sure the press covered it, and

b. The Great Recession hit endowments hard and it was said this was the wrong time to institute it.

 

[mdk01]

I don't want to get in an argument with you. You obviously do not recognize and understand the obstacles and oppression African Americans have faced at all levels in sports. I will point you to an excellent book that you might want to read if you want to educate yourself on the subject matter. https://theundefeated.com/features/book-playing-while-white-examines-privilege-on-and-off-the-field/

Black Lives Matter!

So obviously the solution is to eliminate those sports. [/sarcasm]

 

[rutgersdave]

How much does it cost Stanford if alumni fully fund the sport?

If you read the article I attached, it’s 200 million. That first article was wrong. Doesn’t matter, they think they should cut it. Why do you care?

There‘s going to a lot more cuts for colleges in the future. With the cut in foreign students with their full tuition and parents rethinking the cost of colleges, they will have to come up with drastic changes, maybe not the Ivies since they will just raise tuition to 100-80k a year.

 

[colbert17]

I'm well aware of the history of oppression of black people in America throughout it's history both in society and sports. Can I ask you a personal question? Are you or have you ever been involved in the civil rights movement in America? The reason I ask is because I was as a young man in the 60's and 70's. I remember clearly the I Have a Dream speech. I remember where I was when I heard the news about his murder. Two summers ago when I went to visit my daughter in Atlanta I finally had the chance to visit the museum and his gravesite. Not sure how much of Dr. King's writing you have read but if you did you would probably come to the conclusion that he would not support the black lives matter movement and it's history of violence.
Ironically the closest slogan I've heard in the past few years that he would support is somehow now labeled as racist. I firmly believe that with conviction Dr. King would say All Lives Matter.
If it makes you feel better about yourself continue to sign off by saying BLM. It's an empty and useless gesture but you're welcome to use it.
Also please never assume that you know my level of education and what I do and do not know. It might surprise you.

Once again I'll ask the question.What does eliminating the Stanford sailing team have to do with racial injustice?

 

[mdk01]

If you read the article I attached, it’s 200 million. That first article was wrong. Doesn’t matter, they think they should cut it. Why do you care?

200 million to fund non-revenue sports? Bullshit.

 

[rutgersdave]

200 million to fund non-revenue sports? Bullshit.

Read the statement issued from Stanford. You too lazy, over several years.

This board complains about everything. You guys are smarter than everyone and know everything. They have the info and made their decision. I assume it’s the right decision.

The cost-savings from these changes will phase in gradually over the next several years, as Stanford will honor its scholarship commitments to all current student-athletes in the 11 sports during their undergraduate years at Stanford, as well as the contracts of the coaches. Once the phasing is complete, athletics will save approximately $8 million annually as a result of these changes, but that does not reflect the entire financial picture, as the existing budget was insufficient to ensure those programs remained or became nationally competitive, and significantly increased investment would have been required. We have calculated that the total incremental funding needed to permanently sustain these 11 sports at a nationally-competitive varsity level exceeds $200 million.

 

[e5fdny]

If you didn’t have a scholarship component I wonder how much the budgets are for the non-revenue sports?

Obviously travel expenses for some are something not to sneeze at but overall I wonder what the scholarship part of the equation, the percentage.

And I said earlier, put me down in the too many/too long camp for intercollegiate athletics.

 

[RUTGERS95]

Half of that is right and half totally ****ed up. Did you forget that the 2017 tax bill set up a small excise tax on the investment income for universities with large endowments? Take away not for profit and they'd pay somewhere between 20% and 37% on alumni gifts. FUBAR !!!!! Sen. Grassley had an interesting idea just before the great recession hit in 2007 to prevent "endowment hoarding". He wanted to apply the rules of private foundations to universities. Specifically, they would have to spend 5% of their endowment, valued annually, on operating expenses. If they spent less they would pay an excise tax. It never happened because:

a. The Ivies , Stanford and Duke all sweetened their financial aid package and made sure the press covered it, and

b. The Great Recession hit endowments hard and it was said this was the wrong time to institute it.

well aquainted with university budgets and taxation and everything I said should be mandated. No not for profit enterprise should sit on billions in endowments while cutting sports, raising the cost of admission, etc etc