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OT: The rules of golf stink

kennyschiano

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May 12, 2005
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First: If you hit a bad shot you shouldn't get 20 minutes to hit your next shot.

Second: Spieth's ball wasn't unplayable. It was just a bad lie. But it's up to him to decide. So he took an unplayable and took relief to a preferred lie.

What a joke!
 
He took an unplayable and a one stroke penalty. The ball wasn't unplayable. A ball in a gorse bush is unplayable.
 
Have you ever played tournement golf?? That is one of the dumbest posts ever on this board!

Why is it relevant whether I have or not? I know the rules. Yes what he did was within the rules. I said the rule stinks. The fact that you can save yourself multiple strokes by taking a one stroke penalty is stupid.
 
Why is it relevant whether I have or not? I know the rules. Yes what he did was within the rules. I said the rule stinks. The fact that you can save yourself multiple strokes by taking a one stroke penalty is stupid.
It was deemed unplayable on a hill he couldn't even stand and take a swing. But because you wanted Kucher to win, a rule that has been around 100+ plus years. Used several trillion times but now is stupid because you didn't want Speith to win. Unreal how you continue to make a dumb post increasingly idiotic.
And it does matter that you never played. Your complete lack of knowledge is sparkling bright on this subject.
 
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The only part of your post that I somewhat agree with is the amount of time he was allowed to line up his second shot. A little absurd they gave him over 23 minutes to map out a ideal line and line it up 10 times. That's not fair to his opponent.
The rules state you have 5 minutes to find a lost ball before it's deemed lost. Well a rule should be put in place that once found and ruled upon you have 5 minutes to play.
 
The only part of your post that I somewhat agree with is the amount of time he was allowed to line up his second shot. A little absurd they gave him over 23 minutes to map out a ideal line and line it up 10 times. That's not fair to his opponent.
The rules state you have 5 minutes to find a lost ball before it's deemed lost. Well a rule should be put in place that once found and ruled upon you have 5 minutes to play.
The problem was not with Speith but the officials. Speith knew exactly what he could do. He had to walk it through with the officials who had to make sure he was correct. The last thing golf majors needs to happen is another caller bringing up a rules violation several holes after the fact. It was complicated that equipment was in his line of sight.
 
The problem was not with Speith but the officials. Speith knew exactly what he could do. He had to walk it through with the officials who had to make sure he was correct. The last thing golf majors needs to happen is another caller bringing up a rules violation several holes after the fact. It was complicated that equipment was in his line of sight.
First: If you hit a bad shot you shouldn't get 20 minutes to hit your next shot.

Second: Spieth's ball wasn't unplayable. It was just a bad lie. But it's up to him to decide. So he took an unplayable and took relief to a preferred lie.

What a joke!

outdoor-golf-3.jpg
 
It was deemed unplayable on a hill he couldn't even stand and take a swing. But because you wanted Kucher to win, a rule that has been around 100+ plus years. Used several trillion times but now is stupid because you didn't want Speith to win. Unreal how you continue to make a dumb post increasingly idiotic.
And it does matter that you never played. Your complete lack of knowledge is sparkling bright on this subject.

There are many golf rules that have been around forever that are stupid.

And glad that several of them have been addressed with more to come.

Doesn't mean i think what happened is wrong...just saying that how long the rule has been around is not a great defense.
 
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There are many golf rules that have been around forever that are stupid.

And glad that several of them have been addressed with more to come.

Doesn't mean i think what happened is wrong...just saying that how long the rule has been around is not a great defense.
That rule needs to be exactly that way and never should be changed. The player must have the ability to declare a ball unplayable. They could never make a rule book big enough to cover all the possibilities. The rule is perfectly written.
 
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To the people arguing the ball was playable how do you know that? Could have been under a root or something.
If you didn't have the unplayable lie rule you would have a guy swinging 100 times at a shot that was impossible. Now that would be stupid
 
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That rule needs to be exactly that way and never should be changed. The player must have the ability to declare a ball unplayable. They could never make a rule book big enough to cover all the possibilities. The rule is perfectly written.

You have missed my point
 
First: If you hit a bad shot you shouldn't get 20 minutes to hit your next shot.

Second: Spieth's ball wasn't unplayable. It was just a bad lie. But it's up to him to decide. So he took an unplayable and took relief to a preferred lie.

What a joke!
Stupid post.
 
The only part of your post that I somewhat agree with is the amount of time he was allowed to line up his second shot. A little absurd they gave him over 23 minutes to map out a ideal line and line it up 10 times. That's not fair to his opponent.
The rules state you have 5 minutes to find a lost ball before it's deemed lost. Well a rule should be put in place that once found and ruled upon you have 5 minutes to play.

I agree completely with you. 20minutes is absurd. What if they weren't the last group? There would have been 4 pairings waiting in the tee box to hit. He should have been made to hit a provisional shot once his tee shot went sooo far off the course. Once deemed unplayable he hits his provisional as his third shot.
 
I agree completely with you. 20minutes is absurd. What if they weren't the last group? There would have been 4 pairings waiting in the tee box to hit. He should have been made to hit a provisional shot once his tee shot went sooo far off the course. Once deemed unplayable he hits his provisional as his third shot.
That is not how the provisional ball rule works. You hit a provisional if it might be lost or OB. Once you find you first ball the provisional ball is no longer in play, you must play the first ball
 
That is not how the provisional ball rule works. You hit a provisional if it might be lost or OB. Once you find you first ball the provisional ball is no longer in play, you must play the first ball

The announcers said he had the option of hitting another tee shot. They couldn't understand why they were taking so long because he apparently had that option. Technically it is not a provisional but it is the same concept. Simply take the stroke and have him hit off the tee rather than take twenty minutes.
 
The announcers said he had the option of hitting another tee shot. They couldn't understand why they were taking so long because he apparently had that option. Technically it is not a provisional but it is the same concept. Simply take the stroke and have him hit off the tee rather than take twenty minutes.
He does have that option but why would he take it? He had a small chance to get it on the green from the driving range. He even thought he hit it too far right and he was in great spot.
From the tee he still would be way back and chances of bogey are near impossible.
Face it. He has a brilliant golf mind. He knew standing on the top of the hill his best option was going back using the line of flight. He was pointing out what he was going to do to the official even before they went down the hill. The length of time is 100% on the officials.
 
The problem was not with Speith but the officials. Speith knew exactly what he could do. He had to walk it through with the officials who had to make sure he was correct. The last thing golf majors needs to happen is another caller bringing up a rules violation several holes after the fact. It was complicated that equipment was in his line of sight.

WhiteBus might not know much about the weather :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: but he knows more about golf than just about anyone else around here. He's absolutely right on the unplayable rule and why it took so long to resolve the path forward on 13.

I did get a chuckle out of Bones Mackay (Mickelson's former caddie) saying how the R&A folks told the caddies to speed up Stenson and Mickelson during last year's epic final round battle and how he basically told the R&A guys to go eff themselves, as there was simply no reason to say anything to either player about the pace of play in the middle of such an incredible battle.
 
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WhiteBus might not know much about the weather :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: but he knows more about golf than just about anyone else around here. He's absolutely right on the unplayable rule and why it took so long to resolve the path forward on 13.

I did get a chuckle out of Bones Mackay (Mickelson's former caddie) saying how the R&A folks told the caddies to speed up Stenson and Mickelson during last year's epic final round battle and how he basically told the R&A guys to go eff themselves, as there was simply no reason to say anything to either player about the pace of play in the middle of such an incredible battle.
Ha. I do know nothing about forecasts but I can measure snowfall lol.
As a former Assistant pro I can tell you that you have to pass a rules test to be a PGA pro. Different from a Tour Pro. And its really hard. Some of the most obscure rules and its in depth by what they call the Q&A rulings. Not just the basic rules. The basic rules of golf are contained in a small booklet. The Q&A decisions is like War and Peace novel.
 
I have played tournament golf and I somewhat agree with the op. Unplayable should be stroke and distance.

And the time everyone can agree was ridiculous. That was the officials not wanting to be the story and becoming the story.
 
The announcers said he had the option of hitting another tee shot. They couldn't understand why they were taking so long because he apparently had that option. Technically it is not a provisional but it is the same concept. Simply take the stroke and have him hit off the tee rather than take twenty minutes.

It is not the same concept of a provisional ball.
 
I have played tournament golf and I somewhat agree with the op. Unplayable should be stroke and distance.

And the time everyone can agree was ridiculous. That was the officials not wanting to be the story and becoming the story.
No. What is completely ridiculous is some clown, like the OP calling in and complaining about a rules violation, when his playing partner, the on course official saw nothing wrong. And notifying the player holes later that they earned a penalty or a discaulification.
 
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I have played tournament golf and I somewhat agree with the op. Unplayable should be stroke and distance.

And the time everyone can agree was ridiculous. That was the officials not wanting to be the story and becoming the story.
Unplayable should not be stroke and distance. unplayable lies like a ball plugged in a bunker face under a lip, a ball in a deep depression in the rough or behind a tree, a ball in the roots of a tree or a ball stuck in a tree. These are the types of examples where unplayable lies occur and they should not be penalized stroke and distance.

Thanks for WhiteBus trying to explain. Reading the decisions are great.
 
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To the people arguing the ball was playable how do you know that? Could have been under a root or something.
If you didn't have the unplayable lie rule you would have a guy swinging 100 times at a shot that was impossible. Now that would be stupid

Kevin Na a couple years ago shot a 16 on a par 4 by not taking an unplayable lie. No one but the player can or should be able to decide that.
 
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I work in the country club industry and have some knowledge of this. Jordan knew exactly what he was doing within the rules. The time it took was the officials having to be walked thru everything. Case in point is as soon as he had his line he yelled to his caddie that he could not stand where he was at as that would have been a rules violation as well. Jordan knows the rules and played by them. I feel bad for Kucher because it is tough to stand there that long but the reality is that hole did not determine the outcome. Jordan going birdie, eagle, birdie in the next three holes determined who the winner was.
 
I work in the country club industry and have some knowledge of this. Jordan knew exactly what he was doing within the rules. The time it took was the officials having to be walked thru everything. Case in point is as soon as he had his line he yelled to his caddie that he could not stand where he was at as that would have been a rules violation as well. Jordan knows the rules and played by them. I feel bad for Kucher because it is tough to stand there that long but the reality is that hole did not determine the outcome. Jordan going birdie, eagle, birdie in the next three holes determined who the winner was.

The hill made it hard to ensure that he was dropping back on a line that went from the hole to where the unplayable lie was. You don't want to screw that up, with the championship on the line.

The equipment trucks did not help matters.

The options for unplayable lie are fair
 
I work in the country club industry and have some knowledge of this. Jordan knew exactly what he was doing within the rules. The time it took was the officials having to be walked thru everything. Case in point is as soon as he had his line he yelled to his caddie that he could not stand where he was at as that would have been a rules violation as well. Jordan knows the rules and played by them. I feel bad for Kucher because it is tough to stand there that long but the reality is that hole did not determine the outcome. Jordan going birdie, eagle, birdie in the next three holes determined who the winner was.
He not only knows the rules but processed the situation instantly. He first question he asked the official was if the range was in bounds. We all saw it, fenced in, with trailers all over it but he was smart enough to know that it was part of the course property. You see him on top of the hill pointing to the line of sight to the official immediatly after learning it was in bounds. It was brilliant.
 
I work in the country club industry and have some knowledge of this. Jordan knew exactly what he was doing within the rules. The time it took was the officials having to be walked thru everything. Case in point is as soon as he had his line he yelled to his caddie that he could not stand where he was at as that would have been a rules violation as well. Jordan knows the rules and played by them. I feel bad for Kucher because it is tough to stand there that long but the reality is that hole did not determine the outcome. Jordan going birdie, eagle, birdie in the next three holes determined who the winner was.

This was all obviously the case. The only issue I have is the amount of time. As you noted it's unfair to your playing partner. Jordan knew the rules immediately. The official knew the rules and concurred. It shouldn't take close to half an hour to walk through that. If there is a 5 minute time limit on looking for a lost ball, there needs to be time limit on the decision making to take an unplayable, drop, hit. I do it all the time in like 3 minutes :)

You want to get it right as you noted, but they had it right immediately. That whole exchange should be accomplished in 10 minutes.
 
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Ha. I do know nothing about forecasts but I can measure snowfall lol.
As a former Assistant pro I can tell you that you have to pass a rules test to be a PGA pro. Different from a Tour Pro. And its really hard. Some of the most obscure rules and its in depth by what they call the Q&A rulings. Not just the basic rules. The basic rules of golf are contained in a small booklet. The Q&A decisions is like War and Peace novel.
Do the rule books cover what to do when a caddie drops another ball from a hole in his pocket,down his pants leg,when looking for a lost ball?
 
I think Speith was brilliant and within the rules as everybody has noted. However, it should not have taken a half hour and was grossly unfair to Kuchar. Extra time did give Speith time to re-compose himself and froze Kuchar. He made the free throws but who knows... Speith did not have time to re-compose himself at the Masters and what happened?
 
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Its is interesting. If you take too long you can be put on the clock and the next offense is a penalty. Since Speith was not on the clock at the point, I believe he could take as long as he wanted and would only get a warning at worst case.
 
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