OT: When was the last time both types of Rugby were live on TV

Discussion in 'Rutgers Football' started by HeavenUniv., Aug 2, 2020.

  1. HeavenUniv.

    HeavenUniv. Hall of Famer
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2004
    Messages:
    29,029
    Likes Received:
    5,563
    Both types of pro rugby live on TV right now. National Rugby League of Australia is on FS2 and Super Rugby (rugby union) from New Zealand on ESPN2. I just can’t watch rugby union, I can’t . Every time there is any flow of action, another stoppage and I hate scrums. This must have been how Basketball used to be when there was a tip-off after every basket.
     
  2. HeavenUniv.

    HeavenUniv. Hall of Famer
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2004
    Messages:
    29,029
    Likes Received:
    5,563
    Two things I notice, rugby union guys look a lot bigger. Other point is the domed stadium in New Zealand looks like it is packed so there must not be any corona limit there. Huuuge outdoor Stadium InSydney, Australia looks like they let a couple thousand in. Now I see rugby league from Milton, Australia in a small outdoor stadium but it looks packed. Possibly different regions of their country have much different capacity restrictions.
     
    2 HeavenUniv., Aug 2, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020
  3. SkilletHead2

    SkilletHead2 Heisman Winner
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    14,409
    Likes Received:
    6,724
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Rugby union is 100 times better than rugby league. Much more complex and interesting. The domed stadium is right across the street from my office.

    Right now "Super Rugby" is being played in both Australia and NZ. This is rugby union and it is the game the All Blacks play and World Cup rugby as well. But the NZ team is only playing other NZ teams. Same in Aussie.

    NZ has no lockdown right now. There is no community transmission of COVID. We have about 20 active cases in the country, all in quarantine, and all resulting in people returning to NZ from overseas. So there are no limits on attendance. Also, all restaurants, theatres, etc. are open.

    Aussie was close to this status, but then had a bunch of breakouts and now is in bad shape.

    Scrums are the worst part of rugby union. They could fix this, and I don't see why they don't. Otherwise it is a much faster-paced game than football. Probably, they take their time on the scrums as there is so much running by all players, I think they look forward to a break now and then. Also, all the players on the team get to carry the ball at one point or another.
     
    RUnTeX likes this.
  4. chickenpatty2

    chickenpatty2 Senior
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,038
    Likes Received:
    1,291
    Not trying to derail the thread, but this got me thinking about something I (probably) saw on ESPN, years ago. It was a competition that had two teams scrumming it out, trying to get a ball (or rock, or something) either to a tree or a door, at opposite sides of a field (I think). I recall them saying that no team had ever succeeded in getting it to their respective winning position. Just seemed like a perpetual scrum. Does this sound at all familiar?
     
  5. tico brown

    tico brown All American
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2005
    Messages:
    9,234
    Likes Received:
    4,495
    What is the difference between Rugby League and Rugby Union? Any comparison to football like a spread team, option team, old school double tight offenses?

    Also I remember watching Aussie Football back in the day and was interesting as hell. Is that on American TV?
     
  6. e5fdny

    e5fdny Hall of Famer
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2002
    Messages:
    38,558
    Likes Received:
    17,128
    I used to know but now forget.

    Would love for @tico brown and I to get refresher on this.
     
  7. tico brown

    tico brown All American
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2005
    Messages:
    9,234
    Likes Received:
    4,495
    Right. All I know about Rugby is the New Zealand Haka, which is one of the best things in sports, and the Rugby 7s, which is like 8 man football. I see some of the rugby from England and it's way different from World Cup style. As long as it's not Rugby 7s, which I hate, I just want to know the different rules between the two.
     
  8. ashokan

    ashokan Heisman Winner
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    15,579
    Likes Received:
    12,504
    I don't think of a specific comparison but things like American vs National baseball remind me a bit of rugby. With NL you try to (or used to) "manufacture runs" vs (say) bringing in the DH fence blaster.

    There are a lot of sites that explain the differences (union is slower due to "set plays" and has more players, while league has less players and moves faster). Some of the more idiosyncratic aspects are interesting.

    There are concerns in the UK that while league play would appeal to more fans, those extra fans would also be more inclined toward the NFL as it penetrates UK sports. The more plodding union game might be better for rugby preservation (and union has a bigger following).

    Union is the more traditional game that's played at Oxford, Sandhurst, West Point and in US D1. In UK, rugby is the more aristocratic game compared to soccer. Union is considered more upper-class than league - which is often defamed as more likely to be home to lower class, northern, wife beaters.

    Union players can be bigger because they dont have to run quite as much. Roughly speaking, league has more of a continuous soccer play element while union sets-up more like US football.

    In any case though, both involve a lot of running compared to football. If a US player builds-up strength and mass for fall football, he would lose substantial bit of those playing rugby in the spring. I actually did that for a couple of years. You run so much in rugby that you dont really pop people that hard because you're always half-gassed
     
    8 ashokan, Aug 2, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020
    tico brown likes this.
  9. tico brown

    tico brown All American
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2005
    Messages:
    9,234
    Likes Received:
    4,495
    Thanks for the explanation. Made sense. Love watching both. Rugby players has to be some of the best athletes of the world having the endurance of soccer players, start and stop sprinting of basketball, physicality of football players.
     
    ashokan likes this.
  10. ashokan

    ashokan Heisman Winner
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    15,579
    Likes Received:
    12,504
    Yes rugby will wear you out, but like lacrosse, you can kind of feel out the action and burst full steam or lay back. One misconception about rugby is that its more dangerous than football (lack of pads etc). Rugby isn't as explosive - players don't go full steam for 2 second bursts. You rarely cream anyone and you rarely get creamed. Injuries are more of the painful but not debilitating type. Elbows to the nose and mouth etc. are common, but blown knees and such are more of a football thing. Most colleges have rugby team for women but wouldn't have football teams.

    The most serious rugby injury is the neck injury. Its easier to end-up on the ground and have neck stepped on or fallen on. With union you have more head-banging in scrums etc. and with league you get more collision since defense has to back-up 10 meters after a tackle so players can have a head of steam going forward. Hooker is a bad position and dont let a kid play it
     
  11. Yeah Baby

    Yeah Baby Heisman Winner
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2001
    Messages:
    16,292
    Likes Received:
    2,781
    If they can play Rugby we can play Football. Must not be an election year over there.
     
  12. tico brown

    tico brown All American
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2005
    Messages:
    9,234
    Likes Received:
    4,495
    YUP... Only took 11 posts.
     
  13. tico brown

    tico brown All American
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2005
    Messages:
    9,234
    Likes Received:
    4,495
    I may be wrong but one thing I do know about Rugby is that tackling in that sport is probably safer than in football. They dont have the false protection from the Speed Flex helmets to go balls out and go fornthe kill shots. I rarely see the shoulder/ forearm killshots that you see in football. Theres more "classic, textbook tackling" in rugby. Like I said, i could be wrong but that's what I've seen on highlights/games on youtube and elsewhere.
     
    RUnTeX and ashokan like this.
  14. RUtix4me

    RUtix4me All American
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2015
    Messages:
    5,862
    Likes Received:
    5,589
    That’s why I like the one word thread tough to get an agenda going
     
  15. tico brown

    tico brown All American
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2005
    Messages:
    9,234
    Likes Received:
    4,495
    @ashokan Warching the highlight clip of England/ New Zealand World Cup. I had no idea what was going on but that was a hell of a first drive by England. How many times do you have to get the ball over the goal line before you have to give it up?

    And apparently RPOs is not allowed in Rugby as the refs took away England's 2nd TD after replay.
     
    ashokan likes this.
  16. ashokan

    ashokan Heisman Winner
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    15,579
    Likes Received:
    12,504

    My opinion is that older football tackling USED to be LIKE rugby tackling. My JV high school football coach would stop practices and yell if anyone tackled with their helmet and with their head down. We were always taught to use our shoulder, and to be aware of inside/outside tackling. Somewhere around the 80s younger coaches started talking about putting the "hat in the numbers" of opposing players. It always looked crazy to me. I think the "newer" air cushioned helmets with fuller facemasks encouraged weaponized tackling.

    Coaches also stopped coaching proper safe tackling. College coaches assume high school coaches taught players how to tackle. Varsity coaches assumed JV coaches taught proper tackling. Too often, nobody was teaching safe "head up" tackling - but everyone was assuming everyone else was teaching it. I would often be like "whoa!" watching guys make bad tackles.

    High tackles with forearms are penalties in rugby. Sometimes you can get away with it. I struggled with that, because as a former pulling guard running with arms and elbows out and up, I was conditioned to do the same in rugby. I had a lot of people yelling at me the first few games lol
     
    RUnTeX and tico brown like this.
  17. tico brown

    tico brown All American
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2005
    Messages:
    9,234
    Likes Received:
    4,495
    @ashokan Yeah, I grew up in the 80s when we were taught head in front of the ball and bite the ball. There was a time when "chest to chest tackling" was the rage since it kept the head out of the tackle but you would get trucked. Nowadays, we teach to wrap and roll with the outside shoulder with the head behind. This is safer, IMO.
     
    ashokan likes this.
  18. tico brown

    tico brown All American
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2005
    Messages:
    9,234
    Likes Received:
    4,495
    I dont care if I'm Rugby- Challenged. This play at the 1:35 mark is one of the best plays I've ever saw anywhere.

     
    ashokan likes this.
  19. ashokan

    ashokan Heisman Winner
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    15,579
    Likes Received:
    12,504
    If you don't have a penalty, have the ball stolen or lose a ruck/maul, you can keep attacking goal. At Army games I once saw 2 yard attack on goal that seemed to last 5 minutes.

    When tackled to the ground, a player has to give-up the ball for a ruck where both teams will battle for the ball on the ground. A ruck is thought of as a "loose scrum" because you dont come together as a full team. You need at least one guy from each team to fight for ball but more players in area will join in - the number can vary. a player in a ruck has to join from the rear - he cant come in from the side and close to the ball. That is offsides in rugby. Of course some officials have stricter sense of offsides than others.

    A team that is good at rucks and mauls (thats when runners movement is topped but he's standing and not on the ground) can be good on goal (and other places). Penalties or failed rucks/mauls where call is trapped, can result in a full scrum being called. These sorts of things (set plays) are a reason union can be more intricate but slower. In rugby league a team gives up the ball after 6 tackles (or it was 6 when I was last watching league)
     
  20. ashokan

    ashokan Heisman Winner
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    15,579
    Likes Received:
    12,504
    I went to Offense-Defense football camp while in HS. We had a coach from Notre Dame there. He always told us to follow and tackle the crotch. Wherever the crotch was pointed, the body would be following
     
  21. ashokan

    ashokan Heisman Winner
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    15,579
    Likes Received:
    12,504
    Notice the pitch was backwards. Just like football you cant pitch forwards. Otherwise, pitching, kicking and running are legal. If a player kicks the ball forward, any teammate downfield can't touch the ball until the kicker gets to the ball or the ball is kicked back (as I recall). So this fellow was ok kicking to himself
     
  22. tico brown

    tico brown All American
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2005
    Messages:
    9,234
    Likes Received:
    4,495
    "Watch The Waist!!!"
     
    ashokan likes this.
  23. HeavenUniv.

    HeavenUniv. Hall of Famer
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2004
    Messages:
    29,029
    Likes Received:
    5,563
    I guess we will have to agree to disagree.Just find rugby union a grind to watch. To each his own-heck millions of people in Canada love watching curling!
     
  24. HeavenUniv.

    HeavenUniv. Hall of Famer
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2004
    Messages:
    29,029
    Likes Received:
    5,563
    Tico, both ESPN2 and FS2 have been televising Australian Rules Football on weekends. Last night after rugby union, ESPN2 had AFL on.
     
  25. tico brown

    tico brown All American
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2005
    Messages:
    9,234
    Likes Received:
    4,495
    Rugby Union (if that's what the Rugby World Cup is) looked pretty good to me.
     
  26. HeavenUniv.

    HeavenUniv. Hall of Famer
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2004
    Messages:
    29,029
    Likes Received:
    5,563
    I almost never see the team with the ball get to six. They almost always punt before. Trying to get better field position.
     
  27. HeavenUniv.

    HeavenUniv. Hall of Famer
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2004
    Messages:
    29,029
    Likes Received:
    5,563
    The Rugby League World Cup In 2021 will be in England. This competition was the first World Cup way back. New Zealand hosts the Rugby Union World Cup In 2021.
     
  28. HeavenUniv.

    HeavenUniv. Hall of Famer
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2004
    Messages:
    29,029
    Likes Received:
    5,563
    I have to say, that I enjoy Australian Rules Football more than Rugby League or Union. There are national amateur leagues for both Australian Football and Rugby League with teams in Philadelphia and Conshohocken, Pennsy. Went to both and both were enjoyable. From what I remember no admission or parking. Australian Football plays at a park behind the Philly Sports Complex and Rugby League team plays in a large high school stadium in Conshocken.
     
  29. HeavenUniv.

    HeavenUniv. Hall of Famer
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2004
    Messages:
    29,029
    Likes Received:
    5,563
    Australian Football Team is the Philly Hawks and the Rugby League Team is the Philadelphia Fight. I think each league has teams in New York as well.
     
  30. tico brown

    tico brown All American
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2005
    Messages:
    9,234
    Likes Received:
    4,495
    Thanks. Forgot I had ESPN+ So I can watch the NZ Rugby League. I'll figure out a way to watch the AFL games since I dont have FS2 on demand. I could always watch highlights of both on youtube.
     
  31. HeavenUniv.

    HeavenUniv. Hall of Famer
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2004
    Messages:
    29,029
    Likes Received:
    5,563
    You probably get ESPN2.
     
  32. SkilletHead2

    SkilletHead2 Heisman Winner
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    14,409
    Likes Received:
    6,724
    Location:
    New Zealand
    The Scottish women's curling team was well worth watching!
     
  33. GoodOl'Rutgers

    GoodOl'Rutgers Hall of Famer
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2006
    Messages:
    49,668
    Likes Received:
    10,815
    Isn't there a saying about Rugby is a game for thugs played by gentlemen and Soccer is a game for gentlemen played by thugs?
     
    Knightmoves likes this.
  34. tico brown

    tico brown All American
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2005
    Messages:
    9,234
    Likes Received:
    4,495
    I can get all of those Channels but no on demand for FS2 since i got to pay extra. No problem with ESPN+ though.
     
  35. ashokan

    ashokan Heisman Winner
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    15,579
    Likes Received:
    12,504

    I've heard all that, and I suspect the saying applied more to UK players (and probably some blue blood US teams) than to a lot of US college teams lol. The guys I played with (not RU) and against were some of the the worst characters I ever ran across. One "teammate" is still in prison.

    I'm sure its changed a lot but "gentlemen" is not a term I would have applied to most rugby players in the 80s. Rugby only started rolling at regular US colleges in 60s/70s. A lot of "college teams" were clubs with guys in their 30s. A number of them were wayward and debauched. The things that could take place at the mandatory post game parties were like something the Marquis de Sade would write about
     

Share This Page