OT: Youth Baseball Cut-Offs

[Shelby65]

Recreation 11-12 year old team, highest level of non-travel little leagued ball but with about 3-4 travel-level players on club.

Runner on second and batter singles. Three scenarios: ball hit to LF, CF, RF

Which infielder is optimal cutoff in each case ?

 

[PaKnight]

SS, SS, SB

 

[Plum Street]

SS, SS, SB

This

 

[PeteGiam07]

Depends where your arms are IMO at that age. If 1B or pitcher has a better arm than 2B then use them.

SS are usually best player in the infield at that age.

 

[mikebal9]

I go with 3B, 1B, 1B. Who cares if you get the out. Teach it right.
http://www.qcbaseball.com/situations/cut-off-runner-on-second.aspx

 

[RUScrew85]

I'm throwing a flag on "SB".

Either 2B or 4. Not SB.

Also, it seems upper lever baseball does it as mike says. LL tends to use 2B/SS. Depends.

Overall I'd say it depends on the talents of the players. If you have Ryan Howard at 1B he never cuts because he can't throw. However many times your 2B might have a crap arm (See me, 2B, HS) and the 1B is better able to make the cutoff throw. (I still took the cutoff even with my not-so-impressive arm).

 

[PaKnight]

I'm throwing a flag on "SB".

Either 2B or 4. Not SB.

You're right

 

[RUScrew85]

You're right

;) Hey it's off season - you're just rusty.

 

[RU4Real]

This whole thing is absurd. No man should ever wear cut-offs.

 

[RUScrew85]

I'm throwing a flag on "SB".

Either 2B or 4. Not SB.

Also, it seems upper lever baseball does it as mike says. LL tends to use 2B/SS. Depends.

Overall I'd say it depends on the talents of the players. If you have Ryan Howard at 1B he never cuts because he can't throw. However many times your 2B might have a crap arm (See me, 2B, HS) and the 1B is better able to make the cutoff throw. (I still took the cutoff even with my not-so-impressive arm).

The more I think about it the more complicated it becomes. If the ball is hit straight to the OF then the cutoff is in play however if the ball gets to the wall in the gaps or down the lines you probably need a relay guy which is actually what I'm thinking about - not necessarily a cut off guy - or both. I've never had the 2B or SS standing in the IF for a cut-off so maybe I should just retract everything I've said and leave the answer to someone who has played or coached in the last 30 years. I've taken many a relay from an OF as a 2B but yeah cut-offs are 3B/1B.

Sucks getting old. LOL.

 

[mikebal9]

If you're now talking double cuts, I'd definitely want my SS out there if possible. As noted above, 2bs often can't throw.

 

[RUScrew85]

If you're now talking double cuts, I'd definitely want my SS out there if possible. As noted above, 2bs often can't throw.

Yeah that's where I was thinking being an old 2B who used to take the throws in the shallow OF in that sitch. 2B in RF SS in CF LF

 

[Shelby65]

Reason I ask is because at this ability level I don't want the outfielders to get confused and have different cutoffs depending on where the base runners are....so I prefer having LF and CF throw to the SS and the RF throw to 2B in every case...rather than having the LF throw to the 3B and RF throw to 1B if runner on second.

Am asking for opinions on that approach.

 

[RUJohnny99]

Recreation 11-12 year old team, highest level of non-travel little leagued ball but with about 3-4 travel-level players on club.

Runner on second and batter singles. Three scenarios: ball hit to LF, CF, RF

Which infielder is optimal cutoff in each case ?

Were you actually on the field coaching when you asked this question?

 

[Shelby65]

no....am developing sort of a "playbook" for the team.

 

[RU4Real]

Shouldn't we just ask @zappaa?

 

[dconifer]

This whole thing is absurd. No man should ever wear cut-offs.

Proper thread title should be "Youth Baseball Jorts."

 

[ponyfoot19]

At that age, I would go with the kid who has the strongest, AND most accurate arm (presumably the SS).

 

[RUScrew85]

Shouldn't we just ask @zappaa?

Oh yeah. Forgot about him. He probably has some ideas LOL.

 

[LC-88]

I go with 3B, 1B, 1B. Who cares if you get the out. Teach it right.
http://www.qcbaseball.com/situations/cut-off-runner-on-second.aspx

Cut 4 situation. Son's 10 and 12 yo LL All-Star coach used MIKEBAL9's alignment above. He did say that most LL coaches don't use it. Pitcher backs up catcher.

 

[rubaseball78]

SS, SS, SB

I take it you are conceding the run then?

 

[RUboston]

I would say it depends on the ball that is hit.

If it is a ground ball between third and short that doesn't go deep into the outfield, you'd probably want the LF to throw to the 3B as cut off; if a grounder to right between first and second, have the RF throw to the 1B.

If it's a deeper ball down the left filed line or in the gap to left center have the SS go out for the cut off; if down right field line or in right center gap throw to the 2B.

However, that may be too much for 11 and 12 year olds so go with SS, SS, 2B.

Maybe you can run a cut off practice and alternatively hit shallow grounders to the outfielders and then deeper balls in the gaps and see if they can grasp the concept.

I think that's why you put your smartest/best kid at SS. He may be able to help, particularly when it happens in a game and you need someone to take control on the field.

 

[rubaseball78]

Reason I ask is because at this ability level I don't want the outfielders to get confused and have different cutoffs depending on where the base runners are....so I prefer having LF and CF throw to the SS and the RF throw to 2B in every case...rather than having the LF throw to the 3B and RF throw to 1B if runner on second.

Am asking for opinions on that approach.

You are not teaching correct baseball then. You said these are 11-12 year olds? I would think they would be bright enough to comprehend different cut offs for different plays.

 

[mikebal9]

Cut 4 situation. Son's 10 and 12 yo LL All-Star coach used MIKEBAL9's alignment above. He did say that most LL coaches don't use it.

I coached middle school ball and we ran this and basically spent the first 2 weeks of practice trying to get it down. I loved my 1b dearly, but in games he never remembered his job.

 

[Shelby65]

78...perhaps...but again this is a Rec team and RF and 3B are where I will likely play our weakest players. I could see those players not remembering the runner on second nuance.

No, not conceding the run...

 

[LC-88]

I coached middle school ball and we ran this and basically spent the first 2 weeks of practice trying to get it down. I loved my 1b dearly, but in games he never remembered his job.

My son played 1st alot. Drilled two other things into his head. If pitcher covers home on a pass ball/wp. 1st goes to base of mound to back up. Once the base runner touches second base, there is absolutely no reason (except possible cut) to stand around and watch the game from 1st base. Use your brain and go somewhere useful.

 

[Shelby65]

1B isn't my primary concern. It's the RF I don't want to confuse...by throwing to 1B cutoff in one situation and the 2B in others.

Another benefit of keeping the 1b on the bag is the RF might throw the batter out ... But I guess if I could teach the RF that i could also teach when 1B is the cutoff.

Who doesn't love baseball !

 

[rubaseball78]

I don't think you are giving 11-12 years olds enough credit. You did say this was Rec though. Having two girls, I've never coached baseball, only softball. Bottom line though is hopefully they are having fun.

 

[Vejai]

1B isn't my primary concern. It's the RF I don't want to confuse...by throwing to 1B cutoff in one situation and the 2B in others.

Another benefit of keeping the 1b on the bag is the RF might throw the batter out ... But I guess if I could teach the RF that i could also teach when 1B is the cutoff.

Who doesn't love baseball !

If you're putting your weakest player at RF, he probably isn't throwing out the runner at home. I'd probably have him go to 2nd unless there's a really slow kid on base. If the weakest kid is still decent have him hit the 1B for the cutoff.

 

[SirPerceval]

Reason I ask is because at this ability level I don't want the outfielders to get confused and have different cutoffs depending on where the base runners are....so I prefer having LF and CF throw to the SS and the RF throw to 2B in every case...rather than having the LF throw to the 3B and RF throw to 1B if runner on second.

Am asking for opinions on that approach.

If the goal is to actually try to either make a play at home or cut and make a play at second, you should absolutely use the 3B or 1B. the third basemen and first basemen can line up better with home a good distance from the OF. If you're trying to avoid throwing the ball over the field which tends to occur in rec ball, then use SS and 2B.

 

[LC-88]

Big help at LL level is to make sure the designated cut man, and only the cut man, (depending on what setup the coaches like) holds both his arms up so the OF knows who to throw to. Example, alot of times in a cut-4 to LF, the SS may wander to close to the 3B cutoff, and confuse the LF. These things take alot of practice. Perceval brings up a good point, when to cut and hold, cut and go home, cut to 2nd, don't cut. Communication especially from the catcher is important in cut-4 situations. Gotta love baseball.

 

[PRH_RU]

The only answer in this thread that is right will be the one Zappa comes up with

 

[mikebal9]

There should only be one infielder with his arms up so there shouldn't be any confusion. It's up to the infielders to make sure. As a former outfielder, the most frustrating part of the game is when the infielders don't get set up correctly.

 

[nevets72]

3B will cover 3Rd in all scenarios

SS takes all cut offs from his side of Diamond. 2B covers 2nd, 1B plays mid-diamond.

2B takes cuts to his side of diamond, SS covers 2nd, 1B plays mid-diamond.

C calls secondary cutoff.

It assumes ball is in front of OFer who is not p,saying super deep.

 

[seels2662]

Not at Zappa level, but I did play college level and competitive leagues after that. There are multiple right answers here, however SS, SS, 2B is easiest, if you involve the 3B you now have to rotate the P or SS to 3B or else the opposing coach will tell the kid on a late throw to just keep on running to the now uncovered 3B. Its makes is much more complicated than it needs to be.

The most important thing is for the person covering second to direct the cutoff to make sure he is directly in line with the thrower and the base. "left left" or "right right" until the kid is in line. Then its "cut hold" or "cut two". Make sure a throw home is "cut four" not "cut home". The catcher is usually the one that directs where the throw goes (or doesn't go).

 

[LC-88]

........... and then there's bunt defenses. :)

 

[mikebal9]

Kids that age will not master bunt defenses. If your opposition can bunt and uses it effectively, you will lose.

 

[Harambe_be_my_qb]

Throw it to Kelly Leak.

 

[RUScrew85]

........... and then there's bunt defenses. :)

Let's talk running the Wheel!

 

[zappaa]

Recreation 11-12 year old team, highest level of non-travel little leagued ball but with about 3-4 travel-level players on club.

Runner on second and batter singles. Three scenarios: ball hit to LF, CF, RF

Which infielder is optimal cutoff in each case ?

Obviously there's tons of different scenarios depending on game situation.
First is how many outs are there?
What's the score, what inning?
How hard is the ball hit, do you have a chance for a play at home?
If there's a play at home:
From LF, SS covers third, third basemen is cutoff to home.
CF, 1st basemen is cutoff to home, 2nd basemen covers 1st. RF, 1st basemen is cutoff to home, 2nd basemen covers 1st
No play at plate or you giving up the run to keep the hitter at first.. LF throw directly to ss covering 2nd, 2nd basemen backs up throw, no cutoff
CF, throw directly to SS covering 2nd, no cutoff, 2nd basemen backs up throw, RF, throws directly to 2nd basemen covering 2nd, SS backs up throw, no cutoff neccessary