Kratch is ill informed. If the B1G wants UNC, they'll get UNC.
Pac12 dissolution discussion
- Thread starter rotorocker
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Kratch hasn't been on the RU beat now in what...3 years? So his words mean about as much as any of ours on here. Imagine thinking ESPN is gonna stop the B1G from taking UNC if they really want UNC.
Agree, just like we do on this board about conference expansion or breaking apart , Kratch is just speculating and what he says should be taken as gospel
To some, the mere fact that he worked on the Star-Ledger would be enough to discredit whatever he says.
I’m not sure if the B10 would go after GT but what would the SEC do if they did? He makes it sound like the SEC would add “redundant” GT to stop it. Not lol.
As to UNC, how could ESPN stop it? Well pay more money to the ACC when the GOR is over and get them at least in sniffing distance of the SEC and B10. Like I said most schools don’t really want to move, financial circumstances are what forces them. Problem is who knows how big a number that would be and if ESPN could or would want to pay it.
Too often people act like things are static. Even if UNC went to the B10 it doesn’t mean ESPN would be shut out from them. Just because they don’t have a piece of the B10 now, doesn’t mean they won’t in the future. In the same fashion just because LA is with Fox now, it doesn’t mean ESPN couldn’t have a piece of it back in the future. Things are always changing so who knows who will have a piece of what tv package down the line.
Agree. Until I see something other than some ADs thumping Bibles, the GOR will stop any/all ACC defections. If a 3/4 vote is required (or 11 out of 14 members - precisely 10.5), then some combination of Wake, Duke, GT, Pitt, BC & Syracuse have an effective veto.
I do enjoy thinking about what the ultimate conference shuffle will look like, but my strong feeling is that the Big 10 and SEC will take some time with their 16-member setups before moving to expand again. I think we all understand the Big 2 Conferences can't presently generate more money for existing members through expansion. The ACC GOR takes all those schools off the table and all the remaining schools don't have enough glamor to expand the pie. At least for now.
Looking back the SEC expanded to 12 schools in 1990 (Arky and South Carolina), to 14 in 2011 (MIzzou, A&M), and more recently to the current 16 members. Similarly, the Big 10 added Michigan State in 1950, The Cult in 1990, Nebraska in 2011 and RU & Maryland in 2014. I think the history has been pretty clear - these schools probably won't expand within the next decade.
I'm not even sure 16 (or more) school conferences are even viable over the long-term. So far so good for RU, but we'll see how things unfold in the future when the CFB playoff money and prestige become bigger and bigger (I've read the tournament may be worth $2 billion/year).
I could see ESPN orchestrating certain schools (like UNC) to the SEC rather than the B1G, but only towards the end of the current contract.
ESPN gonna get outbid by Fox by then. They're losing money by the minute and if Disney severs ties with them, they're in deep doo doo.
The point is that ESPN can do things before it ever gets to bid.
ESPN can make adjustment to the ACC deal when they want to move schools, and they can do that earlier because they control both conferences.
Fox has no influence on the ACC, and schools can only move to the B1G closer to the natural end of the contract.
Agreed.
What would ESPN say, 'You know how we've kept you underpaid, by $20 million a year, for the last ten years or so? Well, we'd like you to listen to us about your next conference destination.'
Let’s say the B1G wants to add UNC and let’s alap assume that UNC is enamored with the idea even over the SEC. Its 2034, a couple of years before the GOR expires. At that time let’s assume the B1G member schools are getting $110MM/year for TV rights. UNC reaches out to Chicago and get a wink and a nod that they would be welcomed with open arms. Short of ESPN paying UNC (and the rest of the ACC) something very close to $110MM/year to stay, how exactly does ESPN stop this?
if they alter the deal, they open it up for renegotiation and outright breaking the contract. ESPN is doing nothing to alter the financial terms of the contract. All that does is open the door for schools to leave.
One angry old man post hating on ESPN and Disney is one thing, but the ongoing multi-post rant is pathetic.
If UNC wants to go to the B1G , they will go to the B1G, and ESPN won’t be able to do anything about it.
However, accounts are that there is a lot of support at UNC for both going to the SEC and going to the B1G. In that case, does ESPN’s ability to get them to the SEC several years before they can go to the B1G tilt the scales?
I'm sure you realize that if the parties to a contract sit down to consider changing it, the contract stays in force until and unless they make a deal to change the contract. Or perhaps I don't understand your point.
I like popping over to that site where they have a 1k page thread about us. They are so pathetic. It warms my heart. They've been a Rutgers safety school for 30 years and are very bitter.
It's a very special mindset over there. Dunning Kruger U.
It's a very special mindset over there. Dunning Kruger U.
ESPN salvaging a “leftovers” conference and giving them a reasonable deal. For Syracuse, BC, etc. it would be better than squeezing another year or two out of the ACC contract then turning into UConn.
ACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment
Take out every other argument. I think it comes down to money. Does SU accept 10million in annual revenue, or a 40million payout in a National conference. And, unlike WV, we still will have our nearby travel partners. The gap wouldn’t be that large. It would be like $30M vs $20M, maybe $15M...
syracusefan.com
delusional bunchACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment
Take out every other argument. I think it comes down to money. Does SU accept 10million in annual revenue, or a 40million payout in a National conference. And, unlike WV, we still will have our nearby travel partners. The gap wouldn’t be that large. It would be like $30M vs $20M, maybe $15M...
At some point BC and Syracuse with go back to the BE for all sports and dump their football programs in the AAC along with UConn. I could see Wake Forest also going that route at some point. If the AAC wants to survive in the new world order it will be forced to take football only members at some point. The UConn administration never wanted to go independent in football, they were forced to when the AAC wouldn't allow them to be a football only member.
But would UNC negotiate a buyout of the GOR? Would ESPN let the leave the ACC am without holding them to the GOR? Would that impact the GOR in a way that makes others in the breakaway seven more able to leave too?
Keep in mind, I am not talking about this happening anytime soon, unlike our FSU friend on this thread. ESPN needs the ACC contract with its current numbers.
However, even ESPN knows it only runs through 2036 and then they have to fight the B1G (Fox/CBS/NBC) for some of these schools.
Normally, teams like FSU and Clemson can only announce leaving a few years before 2036 and can only negotiate (and afford) getting out a few years early.
At some point, does it make sense for ESPN to orchestrate those teams getting out a few years earlier (like 2031-2033) as long as they are going to the SEC, another ESPN property?
I can totally see schools facing the UConn future agreeing to it in return for the financial stability of a new leftovers conference that takes them into the 2040’s. The flaw in my idea I see is the schools that think they might have a B12 home, but aren’t sure. How do you get them to agree to anything?
I'll say it again, there's zero chance the FSU, Clemson or UNC will be in the ACC, as currently constituted, with the payouts of 30mil / year less than their peers, until 2036
Whether its 2026, 2027 or 2030, they will be out long before the end of the GOR
Simply put, staying in would literally Cripple their athletic depts, from top to bottom. All 3 schools have championship aspirations (FSU/CU in football, UNC in bball) - falling 500 million behind is absolutely not an option
Additionally, FSU is going for it this year. Loading up in the portal, going hard with NIL. Aiming for the ACC title, playoffs and the natty.
Who knows what will happen, but I'm telling you we're not sitting back - we're going for it, and if that means eventually challenging the GOR in court, they'll do it.
They've worked too hard to become irrevalent. Bobby built this thing, Jimbo elevated it (then shit on it), and now Mike is taking it another level.
Being below or equal to UCF is not acceptable. Having Vandy make 30 mil/more year is beyond comprehension.
I'm not blaming anyone but FSU as they had their head in the sand for too many years - but the time has come to do something, and soon.
What happens, when it happens, how it happens, and who it happens with (or without) is all up for debate. But mark my words (in my best GHWB voice like when he said "no new taxes") - they will not be in this mess come 2036
If challenging the GOR were easy, someone probably would have done it already. I haven't yet heard a good legal argument as to why it's invalid.
It’s definitely not easy
I’ve heard countless times the people that wrote it “sleep well at night”
But there’s literally no shot - nada, zero, zilch - that 3 athletic departments, who’ve invested this much time, money, energy etc
Who’s athletic programs are imbedded into the fabric of their communities and institutions
Will let all that history, tradition, and most importantly, money - go down the drain, is not happening
It’s hard for us to relate as we’ve only had success for brief periods - but once you reach elite status, especially on a consistent basis, to the point it’s woven and engrained to the culture… letting that go is simply not, nor will ever be, an option
I'm lost, are people actually intimating that ESPN could force a school into another conference?
just checking for the sanity of the group
just checking for the sanity of the group
The problem is that FSU, Clemson and UNC did let go -- by signing the GOR.They did that because they couldn't be sure that they would have enough future success to give them better media deals. Getting out of a deal they signed is not going to be easy for them.
Hello ESPN+ and a special Friday night game hosting UMass on ESPNews.
I don’t know why it is a hard to understand, because it has nothing to do with forcing.
ESPN controls the ACC and they control the SEC. That possibly gives them the power to make it easier for schools to leave the ACC earlier to join the SEC while those schools would have to wait longer to join the B1G.
If a school thinks both the SEC and B1G are viable landing spots, is getting out of the ACC a few years earlier enough to tilt the scales towards the SEC?
But I’ll ask again, and it’s a legit question as I’m not a lawyer, if ESPN provides a nice landing spot for UNC, with no GOR hindrance, what would FSU think about that? Is the application of the GOR different depending on the whims of ESPN?
The key word in your post is "possibly." Unless you assume the GOR goes away, it's hard for me to see how ESPN can get teams out of the ACC early.
The GOR, as I understand is, is not a deal the ACC schools made with ESPN. It's a deal the schools made with each other. Only the schools can release it. As with any contract, all the parties would have to consent to do away with the deal.
I am saying they would have to “buy out” the hindrances by offering the schools left behind something they wouldn’t otherwise get.
Some of these schools have a UConn future ahead of them, which is sinking to the bottom. If they are given a chance to survive with a better, not current ACC level but better than UConn, future wouldn’t that be enough to get them to go along with dissolving things in 2032 rather than 2036?
