Pac12 dissolution discussion
- Thread starter rotorocker
- Start date
I wonder if it's really important enough to ESPN to get Florida State, Clemson and UNC into the SEC early that ESPN would pay. Beside, I'm sure you'd agree that it's not obvious who would join the ACC to make up for the lost schools.
This. The GOR is with the conference not the network. The network gives the conference an agreed upon amount of money because the conference is essentially guaranteeing to the network this is our configuration for the this time period (the length of the tv contract).
Theoretically, the conference could let teams go but it would still have to be agreed upon with the network(s) as they've been guaranteed a certain conference configuration and access to its teams. Texas/OU couldn't leave early, despite coming to an agreement with the B12, until Fox gave the okay after coming to an agreement with ESPN. ESPN had no issues because they were still keeping access to Texas/OU but Fox would be losing it a year early.
I'm not so sure either. You'll have to pay some ACC schools more and then also give a carrot to the ACC to let them go early too? Do they want to spend money like that on both ends?
But the unhappy seven are not interested in whatever is left after the GOR is lifted. Anyone that can will bolt. Which leads me back to the belief that ESPN won’t be able to control what happens to Clemson, FSU, UVA etc. short of throwing B1G and SEC dollars for Big XII level content. I don’t see that happening.
Maybe it won’t work, but look at it this way.
ESPN had control of the ACC and SEC when they made their various expansions and was able to leverage that into extensions of those contracts at fair (SEC) and undervalued (ACC) price cues.
They didn’t have control of the SEC game of the week and only got it at a huge price. They didn’t have complete control of the B1G and got outbid and don’t have any of it now.
Is it a stretch to think ESPN will try to use the leverage they have over the ACC and SEC to keep the best ACC schools from hitting the open market and getting them in the SEC so ESPN continues to have them? It’s the strategy that has worked best for them when it comes to college football rights.
They even tried it recently with the college playoff (offering a lot more money to start the expanded playoff immediately if they got an extension of the contract and it didn’t go out to bid).
If any one team is let out, they are all let out. And ESPN can’t do anything without it seems a supermajority of the schools agreeing to it. Any school that wants out can leave right now if they want , but the exit fee is $120 million, and you forfeit your tv rights until 2036. If teams saw a way to leave they would. I think they are stuck until close to the end of the contract, and possibly not before the end of the contract.
If you read my earlier posts, my point isn’t that anyone is getting out soon. My point is that ESPN will make an attempt nearer the end of the contract, using their leverage of having the ACC and SEC contracts, to structure the post-ACC world to their benefit.
It might not work, but ESPN always tries to keep things from getting to the open market.
Definitely not easy
Stupidity at its finest on display for all to see
Regardless -,none of them will ever fall 500 million dollars behind their peers
respectfully, that's the dumbest logic I've seen on here since the guy giving bonus credits for 5 win team getting covid bowl. you're smarter than this or at least we think so.
try this again
Remember that hindsight is 20/20. Try to see it from, for example, FSU’s perspective when it agreed to the GOR. It had no guarantee that it would have as much athletic success as it has.
The Magnificent 7 can talk about leaving all they want, but when push comes to shove they won't be able to pay the price to leave.
Leaving the ACC even with a reduced buyout cost Maryland a bunch
and Longhorns and Sooners will pay early withdrawal fees of a combined $100 million to join the SEC in 2024, a full season earlier than when the Big 12 GOR was set to expire
With the ACC's GOR being valid for at least 12 more years, I doubt any of those 7 would feel the cost to leave would be worth it.
Leaving the ACC even with a reduced buyout cost Maryland a bunch
and Longhorns and Sooners will pay early withdrawal fees of a combined $100 million to join the SEC in 2024, a full season earlier than when the Big 12 GOR was set to expire
With the ACC's GOR being valid for at least 12 more years, I doubt any of those 7 would feel the cost to leave would be worth it.
This is a really stupid idea that hurts whatever little purity is left in the game. What’s next, Little League coaches getting interviewed on microphones during games? Maybe they should go into the stands and interview fans about the game while it’s happening. What a joke.
Scarlet Jerry
I'm not so sure. It was a little disconcerting to see Ken Rosenthal interview Bryce Harper in the dugout after Harper hit the homer that put the Phillies in the World Series -- but I didn't think it interfered with my enjoyment of the game.
BTW, the biggest reason it was disconcerting for me was that Harper is 6'3* and Rosenthal, who is 5'5," looked like a midget next to him.
I don’t watch pro sports anymore but I’m under the impression that these behind the scenes, in the action kind of things are the norm now. Seeing the post replying to yours above, it seems like that’s the case.
They want the viewers, especially the younger generation, to feel a part of it and have more connection. The more connection and engagement, the more likely they will tune in and watch and also come back for more.
I don’t really care either way but I’m sure these networks want to broaden their viewership.
I think the pitch clock is going to reduce dugout interviews in baseball. There's just not enough time between batters and pitches. A DH like Harper can be interviewed in the break between innings (assuming the network is willing to give up commercial time -- fat chance!) but a position player will want to go out to the field. Interviews in other sports will also be difficult if the pace of play picks up.
Something else on the horizon and will affect the need for resources. I wonder though if this comes to fruition (which eventually I think it will), how would it affect sports that don't make money.
I can't believe that ESPN would ever want to weaken the ACC. ESPN and the ACC created the ACC Network (something the Big 12 doesn't have). The SEC is sitting fat and happy as is. They have 16 schools and no real need to ever expand again. I could see the SEC possibly making a run someday for UNC and Virginia (two flagship and land-grant state universities) - and that's only after the ACC GOR has expired (or annulled).
Of course there's purity. Everyone knows all the cheerleaders have committed to not having sex until marriage. /s
Understandable evolution of where this was going to end up. If college students competing in sport do get classified as employees that will add a whole new level of complexity for which one has to wonder how many colleges will bother carrying programs. That, in turn, may affect participation availability for many and, in turn, could impact the NFL feeder system. Perhaps the NFL anticipated this and began its ties with the USFL to start creating a minor league for player development. The G-League already positions the NBA to deal with this.
I wonder how the ACC will plan to poach us. I personally can’t wait for the offers. I have a feeling that it could be a hard sell, but I’m willing to listen. 🤣
There is already litigation about whether college athletes are employees. The Third Circuit Court of Appeals (which sits in Philadelphia) is considering a case involving whether athletes are employees within the meaning of the Fair Labor Standards Act. If they are, then they are entitled to be paid.https://www.bricker.com/insights-re...saga-continues-are-student-athletes-employees
One has to wonder if every board has a rutgersal who tries hard to be flagged by Message Board Geniuses. That said, it would have been interesting to see what would have happened with the ACC of Maryland stayed and Rutgers was asked to join. Not interesting enough to wish it had happenes though.
Google "purity of the sport" and you will see examples of what I mean. College football used to be about pure sportsmanship and athletic competition, not money, and TV, and something that is trying to replicate professional sports. I prefer that the in-game experience focus on the game and traditions (For example, I want to hear the marching band, not piped in music) Coaches should focus on strategy and the game while it's being played, and not have to worry about giving interviews while teams are on the field. All of this is a symptom of our increasingly short attention span. Can't we just focus on the game and have some down time between plays instead of having to be "entertained" during every minute of the game?
I know this sounds like an old man rant, but I do long for a time when college football games were about the actual sport rather than trying to "entertain" us with glitz and constant distractions that have continued to creep into the game experience.
Scarlet Jerry
They foolishly signed the extension b/c it was a prerequisite to get the ACC network
And compounded it with the 3 headed monster of Thrasher / Waldo / Miller all not being on the same page, and Jimbo essentially calling the shots
Add in the rebranding of the uniforms, the Jameis drama and the Oregon blowout in the Rose Bowl and 2014 was an emotional roller coaster like none other
Yup, it was the creation of the ACC Network that led to the extension.
I wasn't against them signing it, it was the length for which it was signed which was worrisome
Who signs a 20 year deal?
Nobody will pay 500 million to leave, nor will one school go at this alone
Has to be a coordinated effort, under the guise of a deficit that large (~500 mil) would cripple their athletic depts, hence not staying in the league
Moreover, whether the number is 8, or a 75 % of the league's members, you need landing spots
By all accounts, the B1G and SEC aren't taking 8 teams or 75 %
So a combo of them and the B12 is what I'd assume would happen, w/BC, Wake and Cuse going to the AAC/Big East/some other lower level conference
That's the thing, the B12 isn't some realistic option compared to where those schools are now. It's a wash at best and likely they would be financially ahead in the ACC.
The B12's new contract is 31-32M including tier 3 rights. The ACC is somewhat higher than that. There's no reason for those schools to leave to the B12.
I’d assume adding a few others would increase the $ or x amt of schools leaving the Acc would decrease it, thereby making the new $ greater
Not totally sure how these deals work - as they seem to take some time once new schools are in the conference
I don't think it would increase anything, at best it would be the same money the B12 gets in the new deal and possibly not even that. Some say there's a pro rata clause in the B12's new contract but who knows if that's true. ESPN isn't even paying extra for Texas/OU to the SEC. The SEC didn't get a bump from those additions, all that was promised was that they would get the same money the other schools in the SEC were going to get as soon as they join.
There's no motivation to leave for the B12, especially when no one has left the ACC. Even when they do leave, like I said I think it's more likely for WVU/UCF, and maybe UConn/Cincy, to come towards the ACC than the other way around. The ACC should be targeting 2030 time frame (B12 tv deal expires) to try and accomplish that.
That's your best hope for getting out early, some time in the early 2030s. Not 2 years from or whatever you've been saying. The addition of schools like WVU/UCF might open a door for some deal making to get those additions approved and up to speed financially in exchange for letting FSU/Clemson etc.. out a little early.
Last edited:
Worse case FSU will cut a 120 million exit fee check and go to court alone to fight the GOR
They'd obviously prefer not to do that, as it would be unpresented and there's strength in numbers, but they're not going to fall 500 million behind their peers due to Wake Forest and BC leeching off the tit
The 120M is only part of it, they don't own their tv rights either. What conference is going to add them while the tv rights are up in the air and are they willing to not get tv revenue from the ACC while a trial is ongoing? I tend to think no.
Continually regurgitating 500M etc..doesn't change those things and it's just melodrama. How far behind have Cincy, Coastal Carolina, UCF, TCU (at one time) etc..been behind the P5 and yet they were able to accomplish big things on the national stage. It's overblown to think being 10s of millions behind on an annual basis is an automatic death knell. All your main competitors (ACC schools) are in the same boat and the CFP is expanding and the ACC will have an autobid. If you run your department well and hire the right coaches, there's no reason for falling off the face of the map. Clemson just hired Garrett Riley with a big contract and pays Dabo one of the top salaries in the country. FSU is paying Norvell 8M/yr in a long term 7-8yr deal off one season. These schools have more than enough money to continue to compete and aren't struggling.
120 mil is the exit fee, which they'd come up with in 5 minutes
No conference is going to add anyone until the GOR is straightened out, which worse case, they'd go at it alone in court
None of those teams you listed have, or will, consistently been elite. They'd have good years, but none will continually compete for titles - the money and talent gap is just too wide
Respectfully, if you think it's overblown to be 500 million dollars behind your peers, we'll agree to disagree. It's literally a death sentence for athletic departments, not just football.
FSU prides itself in being good across the board (baseball sans this year, softball, football, etc.) - that amount of $ differential would not permit that to happen
As currently constituted, a few more years of 30-40 million behind, though a lot of money, should still allow CU / FSU to compete for titles. 13 years and 500 million behind though - they'd be regulated to essentially mid major status
No they haven't been consistently up there but most schools aren't, including FSU despite being not so far behind financially the last decade or so. They had and still have the money but they still weren't up there consistently because of Bowden being long in the tooth and some poor hires. A little bit of a run in between with Fisher.
Texas has all the money in the world and they haven't been consistently elite before even Mack Brown left. It's not easy to be like that and money is just a part of it but is just helpful. Having money means nothing if you're not smart in how you use it and teams with less money can do fine if they use it well and manage it properly.
Agree they haven't been consistently up there, but it's not b/c of money like you said, it's bc Bobby let the program slip, then the Jimbo debacle, then Willy
The money difference wasn't that great for many years to have it be a huge hinderance - now though, it's getting to the point where it'll make a huge difference
I also agree with you that the right hires make a huge difference. Mike appears to be a good hire, but college athletics is fickle.
If Brian Kelly goes for 2 at the end of regulation last year vs. LSU, against a gassed defense who was reeling, things could be much different
UF and Oklahoma both lit us up, putting up damn near 100 points combined
Tate coming in for an injured Travis on the road vs. Louisville was also big
You need a combination of the right hires, and money as well
You can get all the right hires you want, but you need recruits
Recruits are going where they have the best chance to win
New faculties, upgraded weight rooms, nutrition, etc.
You also need to be able to keep your coaches
Lonnie almost got poached by the SEC (softball)
Jimbo was poached by A & M
You need to retain coaches & develop talent - which is infinitely harder to do without the $$$ resources
I can envision a scenario where around 2030 or 2033 ESPN orchestrates a split of the acc taking the magnificent 7 and ND and forming a new conference. Eliminate the dead weight and with fewer mouths to feed more cash for everyone else.
