I'm thinking any movement has to be done before the Pac12's TV deal is finalized. The media companies have to be demanding a GOR guarantee in any new deal. They're not getting a dime until conference stability is addressed in a meaningful way.
Pac12 dissolution discussion
- Thread starter rotorocker
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Notice that the WSU program has an annual balanced operating budget and a plan to pay down internal debt (which I imagine is debt to other parts of the university) . I wonder how many other schools there are like that.
So far the can has been kicked down the road as far as the PAC12 tv deal numbers. There's only so long before it eventually has to come to a head and that's when we'll see if any movement is possible. If the numbers are adequate, then I'd expect them to hold together for the short term but if not then who knows.
Lmao that in no way has the potential to severely backfire.
The uneven distribution means that the dominant teams will stay dominant, and other teams will have even more trouble getting to the top.
It’s only some post season revenue, the rest of the tv money will be evenly split.
It’s also available for anyone to get. WF and Duke have gotten or sniffed double digit win seasons at times so anyone can snag the money.
Neither Texas or OU have been in the B12 title game lately so you can’t say for sure who will do what.
edit:MBB counts too and maybe other sports
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Absolutely far less than they were hoping for
Equivalent to a Bandaid over Niagara Falls
Still better than nothing, but also underscores the need to get out of the ACC within the next few years
But the fact they didn't get much shows that the other schools believe that the GOR is enforceable. That's why they felt they could give Florida State only a Bandaid.
Disagree
They were under no obligation to give FSU anymore money
They’re desperately trying to keep the conference together as long as possible, and placating FSU / Clemson etc could buy them a little more time
It can't be both that they're desperate AND that Florida State only got a "bandaid." One contradicts the other.
Some is better than none.
They'd be crazy to acquiesce to all of FSU's demands, knowing they'll be out of the league in a few years anyway.
FSU wanted more, they settled for what they got. This is temporary - and will not stop them and others from bolting.
The questions of when, with whom, to where, and at what expense are and will continue to be debated until the dust finally settles.
what you are saying probably is truth, I feel the jumping will start by some of the programs not liking what they are hearing about what's being offered and make a move to leave Dodge before being obliged to commit to staying.
It's a damm if you do , damm if you don't situation right now and will wind up with an every program for itself mentality that some programs will feel being stuck in the PAC with the TV rights deal signed sealed and delivered will hurt them more than help unless some of the PAC programs hear the revenue they will be getting from a PAXC deal will be comparable to the B-12
thay ware thinking of trying to join and some other PAC programs find out the B1G won't be addeding any west coast programs for a long time.
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The question you need to ask yourself is: "Why did they settle for a band-aid?" If they really thought they could bolt, wouldn't they have insisted on a lot more?
Possibly
I'm not privy to what went on in those meetings
Even the band aid they got was unpresented
The only thing I can unequivaly tell you is there's literally zero chance they're keeping that status quo of being 30-40mil/year behind their peers
Whether that means going to court alone (not their first choice), with peers, or leaving by some other method, they will be out well before the GOR expires in 2036
The money discrepancy will literally kill their athletic dept. - and as hard as they've worked to build it up, with the time, money and resources, in additional to what it means for the school and community, that's simply not, nor will ever be, a viable option
I wonder if some private conversations are occurring with the seven schools who want out regarding contraction. If they could get ESPN to agree to keep the money the same but allow them to jettison 3 or 4 schools (the Yankee schools plus maybe wake) that would give those who remain an extra 7 to 10 million a year. Not ideal but it cuts the revenue gap somewhat for themselves. The question us would they do it.
Unless FSU can break the GOR in court, they will have to pay and pay and pay to get out of a deal that they chose to sign on to. The Seminoles will have to decide whether that's worth it to them.
s
Conference is trash, and in its current form, not sustainable for any school that's remotely serious about competing in football
Wake is clearly good with being ultra competitive in soccer and baseball
BC with women's lax and I believe field hockey
The fact that I even know that is they air (and talk about in length) these non revenue generating sports over football and basketball on the ACC Network - which, if you've ever watched it, has the production level of a remedial junior college communications class
I'd assume they're having ongoing conversations
Conference is trash, and in its current form, not sustainable for any school that's remotely serious about competing in football
Wake is clearly good with being ultra competitive in soccer and baseball
BC with women's lax and I believe field hockey
The fact that I even know that is they air (and talk about in length) these non revenue generating sports over football and basketball on the ACC Network - which, if you've ever watched it, has the production level of a remedial junior college communications class
Big risk no doubt, but if they want to remain serious in football, and by all accounts, they do, it's the only option.
Court >>> throwing away everything they've built over the past 45 years
Clearly they'd prefer to go at it with company (Clemmy, Heels, Hoos, Hokes, Pack, etc.) - unless another deal can be struck to avoid a drawn-out court process
This much we know - each school has sent attorney's up there to review it. Noles have sent multiple, numerous times.
Bad part - what will it cost them, when will it happen and how far will they fall behind peers while it's ongoing
Good part - They'll have their ducks lined up if/when it does, by all accounts they wont be alone in this endeavor, and they'll certainly have a landing place (or 2) when the smoke clears
Sending attorneys to review a contract is one thing -- that's easy. Litigating to try to break the contract - that's a lot harder and riskier.
Agree
That’s why going at it alone is a last resort
I don’t think that’ll happen, because Clemson clearly has a vested interest and not losing their football program and UNC for basketball
Ok, but having an ally in trying to break the GOR doesn't necessarily reduce the amount of damages they might have to pay --it may just double the potential recovery for the other ACC teams.
Having muktiple ally’s is the likely approach
The other key is getting the fringe teams to see that the conference is dying, mitigate the risk while they still have a chance and most importantly, find other conference homes for them
FSU, Clemson and North Carolina will be fine. Next in line is Miami and Virginia, will also likely find good homes. Then it starts to get dicey with NC State, Virginia tech, Louisville, Pitt, Georgia Tech, and Duke.
I have a hard time, believing all of those last 6 will find suitable homes
Have to figure, NC State, Virginia Tech, and Louisville will be OK, pit and GT being in cities and Duke only being good on Bball (bad football, but can their Bball band carry the day)
Wake, BC and presumedly Cuse are toast
Interesting times ahead for sure
If it were me, here's how things would play out:
UVA, UNC, one of Duke/GT, Miami to the B1G
FSU, Clemson, NC State, VT to the SEC
Pitt, Louisville, one of Duke/GT to the Big 12
Wake, Cuse, BC good luck in the AAC 2.0 with Temple, Tulane, UMass, Navy (football only), USF, ECU, and Memphis.
I
watched the ru cuse game on that network a couple years ago. The seemed like the announcers were pulled out of the parking lot tailgate. The sideline reporter seemed like they met her while she was working at a Rita eater ice and asked her if she wanted to be on tv.
Amazon just dumped $1bln on some crappy Tolkien fan fiction. I don't think they have as much money to burn anymore. Fake Hobbits took it all.
University Presidents are the ones who vote on this. I don't think they would vote for Stanford based on the fact that Stanford are notorious dicks when it comes to research. The B1G Consortium would not want them, if the rumors are true.
Cuse and BC will go the UConn route and will be worse. That is the best thing about realignment. The destruction of those two schools' AD.
I doubt those rumors are true. I've never heard anything like that. Anyway, collaboration with anyone is hard when they're two time zones away.
Fair enough. Let's see.
The consortium is very overlooked in these B1G negotiations. I believe RU and Maryland's research was a much bigger factor than given credit for. That consortium brings in money that dwarfs the sports revenue. STEM students also like good sports.
Then again, what do I know?
Every school that has joined the Big 10 has always wanted to be a part of the CIC or today it is called the Big 10 Academic Alliance. Back in the late 90's Notre Dame wanted access to the CIC but not join for football.
The Big 10 Academic Alliance is the real carrot, schools want access to. Can not say for Stanford, that is their business, but if they fore go it, it is their loss.
The Big 10 Academic Alliance is the real carrot, schools want access to. Can not say for Stanford, that is their business, but if they fore go it, it is their loss.
I too question the rumors. I have worked on collaborations between professional schools of both universities.
I checked the ACC constitution. It takes a 75% supermajority to amend it. I assume that for this purpose, an agreement to dissolve the conference would be considered an amendment.
Clearly Big Ten membership is beneficial for Rutgers in lots of ways, and being in the alliance is helpful, but its importance should not be exaggerated. My guess is that university presidents (who vote on Big Ten membership) want the alliance to seem like a big deal to placate their faculties. But everyone can judge for himself. Here is the Star-Ledger's account of how Big Ten membership helps Rutgers. https://www.nj.com/rutgers/2022/11/how-big-ten-changed-rutgers-beyond-athletics.html And here is the Alliance's website. https://btaa.org/ Draw your own conclusions.
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Two ways to look at it
1. Big 3 aren't going to sit idly by and watch their peers make 30-40mil/year more then them. FSU, Clemson and UNC have invested way too much for that to happen (which makes them signing the GOR extension that much more mind-boggling)
2. We're pretty much all in agreement the three schools getting left out of the 3 major conferences are Wake, BC and Cuse.
Tier 1 being FSU, Clemson and UNC (ND as well)
Tier 2 = UVA and Miami
Tier 3 = NC State, VT, Louisville
Tier 4 = Duke, Pitt, GT
That's not set in stone but an approximate pecking order Tier wise (UNC likely ahead of FSU in pecking order, Miami over UVA, etc. .I just listed the schools no particular order)
So some combo to B1G/SEC of Tier 1 and 2 schools, plus NCS and VT presumedly (assuming for same state, B1G takes 1 and SEC takes other). Issue being you'd have to convince B12 to snag Ville and Tier 4 schools (would they add enough $ to the pie)
Regardless, and I cannot speak for other schools, but FSU will go to court to challenge the GOR within the next few years if they're not out by then. Hopefully it won't come to that, which I don't think it will, and hopefully if it does they won't go at it alone (I'd be even more shocked if that happened).
I'll use the in-state example of UF as an example. At Rutgers, we don't have any instate competition for dollars, athletes, fandom, etc. to the level of FSU-UF (if we ever get consistently good, our peer would be PSU)
Everything with them is a competition. UF has many inherent advantages (older, more established, better school, medical school, more fans, more donors, more centrally located in the state, better conference, etc.)
With all that being said, and having played FB approx. 60 years longer than FSU (too lazy to look it up), they have the same amount of Natty's and Heisman's
When FSU is on its game, they compete with, and generally beat, the Gators. The issue is when FSU isn't on its game, UF, with all of their built-in advantages, can take advantage of FSU's situation, whereas when UF isn't on its game, they can recover quicker due to the built in advantages
Now, throw in a 30-40mil/year difference via TV, add that up year over year, in addition to all of UF FB scholarships being endowed for the past 30 years via Ben Hill Griffin (stadium namesake)
FSU does not have that, thereby taking $ out of athletic budget and putting more pressure on donors who are already stretched out due to not having as many number wise and doctor/lawyer/old money wise), "more donors, more wealthy donors," etc. and you see where the $ difference really starts to highlight itself
Point is they're already playing catch up with their main instate rival. Now throw in Bama, UGA, Tennessee, Auburn, etc., all whom they're competiting for with recruits, etc. and all of whom have had more success then UF recently (esp. Bama and UGA), and it gets even more eye opening
Make no mistake, FSU did this to themselves. Bad leadership, compounded with bad decisions, and compleancey, led to this. The Thrasher-Waldo-Jimbo-Andy Miller fiasco then compounded the issues.
However, I'm confident with President McCullough and Michael Alford leading the charge, things will be fine. The dominoes are starting to fall. And like I've mentioned, you don't built what they have only to see it fall apart. It'll be interesting to see how this all transpires in the not-so-distant future
I already told the hive this but you know how 'wishful' thinking works
the ACC GOR is a carbon copy of the B12 one. If Texas and OU couldn't get out 4yrs earlier, no way does FSU get out now
again, already told everyone it's 12 as ND was given voting rights which I find insane
GOR is keeping them together for a long time and it only hurts all involved. They need to rip the bandaid off and get moving on movement!!!!!!
Wel see
I was told 2-3 years
Puts them ~100 million behind
They better get moving before the hike gets too deep
