it's the content that is the expense, is it one year or up to remainder which means it's 150mm day one to possibly 400mm. no way they can afford that. ACC gor is same as B12 apparently
Pac12 dissolution discussion
- Thread starter rotorocker
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OU and UT had 2 years left
ACC has 13 years, at a ~400 million deficit
Zero chance they're riding it out
Exactly. Not a contract attorney but play golf with one. We discussed this last fall. His opinion was the same as yours and mine. The liability beyond break up is minimum 400mm and possibly open to multiples. Because breach of the contract will render certain entities forever incapable of earning anywhere near this contract going forward.
A few things
1. The few pods I listen to indicated 8 teams; if it's indeed 3/4, you are correct
2. From what I've heard, the point where it's gets really problematic is ~100 mil
3. Like I said, if necessary they'd go at it alone in court. Doubtful it comes to that, as the other valuable entities (Clemson & UNC in particular) have started getting vocal as well, and by all indications, the less valuable properties (Hoos, Hokies, Canes, Pack, Ville) are also starting to get on board
Did you really expect the shit schools in the conference to do anything major money wise to acquiesce to FSU's wishes? Shit, I was shocked they got what they got, which is peanuts, and furthers the point that they need to do something, and quickly
I'll stick by my initial prediction of 2-3 years, as everything I've heard, especially post ACC meetings, has not changed. If anything, the process has been accelerated (as much as it can) by the complete disconnect between the football schools and the little guys
There's no doubt the GOR is a massive obstacle. That alone is keeping this decrepit conference afloat, if only by a hair
That’s a $400mm defecit to FSU solely. If FSU breaks up the GOR they owe everyone possibly multiples of $400mm. That would be the liability. You’re not just buying your way out your making everyone else whole for their diminished value. UT and Oklahoma didn’t want to risk invalidating the contract they would rather let it run out versus opening them up to liability beyond the end date of the contract.
Perhaps their attitude comes from the fact that their schools are much more selective than Rutgers-New Brunswick. UNC-Chapel Hill admits 25% of applicants; the University of Virginia admits 22% of applicants; Rutgers-New Brunswick admits 67% of applicants. These figures are all on the website I used above to get UNC's tuition.
The weird thing is that these schools' SAT range are not higher than Rutgers-New Brunswick, and I don't know of any reason to think they're better schools. But kids want to go to them, and that probably makes a tremendous difference in the minds of those who are admitted.
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The GOR is doing exactly what it was meant to and that's keep your "decrepit conference" lol together. That decision includes the leadership at all the schools including FSU and Clemson.
Problem is none of them had any foresight to realize that things can change in future. They got the security they wanted to make sure there were no more "Maryland great escapes" but often in life there are tradeoffs. You didn't want anyone leave and so they can't, you just didn't realize what that actually can mean.
The biggest problem is that Swofford and the leadership kept chasing dollars but again there are tradeoffs. They thought they had a great deal until they didn't and then kept chasing dollars along the way. Add Syracuse/Pitt to get more money. Ok fine but add 5 more years to the deal. Start the ACC Network. Ok fine but add 10 more years on top of the 5 you already added. The ACC deal was set to expire in 2022, then got pushed out to 2027 and then got pushed out to 2036.
Thinking about it, from the smaller status schools standpoint, I'd say they likely made the right calls with these extensions. They kept the gravy train going as long as possible. It might have fallen apart sooner otherwise. It's the higher status schools that you're like what are they doing? The smaller status schools had no optionality but the bigger ones might have and they didn't keep it.
What does this have to do with Rutgers and acceptance rates? Your actually making my point regarding their elitist attitude and perception. I guess we agree.
I guess we do agree, and I' m sure we'd also agree that snobbiness is bad. But it's not surprising that those who got into a school that is tough to get into have an attitude about it. By contrast, Rutgers students and alums (and faculty) too often have a sad sack attitude about Rutgers despite its excellence -- maybe that's because kids don't clamor to get into Rutgers the way they clamor to get into UNC and UVA. Anyway, I've diverted you from your original point about the ACC.
No diversion. This is what makes this board great. I’m a human tangent
Have a great weekend!
I don't think you fully appreciate how this works
sure something unforeseen could happen to create the ACC break-up early but absent a externality, you're ****ed and you're not reading the tea leaves correctly here my friend
key points some are missing
if UT and OU lawyers couldn't figure out how to beat the GOR with 4yrs remaining, no FSU does with 10+
ESPN/Disney has been in cost cutting mode. After seeing some early reviews of the Little Mermaid and Indiana Jones movies, they might be moving into full financial panic mode.
Maybe it's even worse than that. No other conference is going to talk to any potential ACC renegade until the GOR is over or is declared invalid. If the GOR is valid and a renegade breaches it, then the other conference could be liable for inducing breach of contract if the conference had had contact with the renegade. A renegade is going to have to abandon the ACC ship, jump in the water, and pray that another conference will come along to save it. That's risky -- especially because the renegade is not going to have much leverage in the negotiations.
At TLH now heading back home, I was at softball Super Regionals in Tallahassee the past two nights
What a scene - the place was electric
Talking with a few buddies, the consensus remains the same
Do what you can now - win, win big, keep winning, recruit, donate to Boosters and Battles End
Also had a chance to speak briefly with Alford
Asked him how the ACC meetings went... "productive and great to see everyone" was his response, clearly tounge in cheek
At the tailgate, saw one of the higher ups with their NIL collective. The topic of the ACC briefly came up; he says, and I quote "If you think we're putting this all together without having a plan to get out of the league shortly, you're sadly mistaken"
What a scene - the place was electric
Talking with a few buddies, the consensus remains the same
Do what you can now - win, win big, keep winning, recruit, donate to Boosters and Battles End
Also had a chance to speak briefly with Alford
Asked him how the ACC meetings went... "productive and great to see everyone" was his response, clearly tounge in cheek
At the tailgate, saw one of the higher ups with their NIL collective. The topic of the ACC briefly came up; he says, and I quote "If you think we're putting this all together without having a plan to get out of the league shortly, you're sadly mistaken"
everybody has a plan till they get punched in the mouth. that punch is the GOR and realization that FSU would owe hundreds of millions to the ACC schools.
get ready to waste away in the ACC which is sad, you guys would look great in the B1G
I try to look at it objectively
Certainly not a lawyer, nor donate enough to be truly in the mix
Living in NJ also has a bit of disconnect as it’s harder to get a pulse on things 1,000 miles away
My honest take is there are people far more influential than I am that are not concerned
Those are the same folks who gave the inside scoop on Bobby, the Jameis issue, Jimbo situation, champions club & collegetown builds, Thrasher / Waldo / Andy / Jimbo mishandling, Willy buyout & subsequent Norvell hire, the Hunter saga, etc.
If they start worrying, it’s cause for concern. They sounded the alarms coming off the 2013 natty re Clemson & facilities, Jimbo whispers, and other things
None of them appeared remotely worries, nor did I press them on the issue during our interaction after my initial inquiry
I find all of this fascinating as the world of college athletics is rapidly changing right before our eyes
it's about what is real and what is not. the GOR is real, modeled after the B12 and one in which UT and OU couldn't leave 4yrs early due to costs and you think FSU is leaving in a few years?
we reap what we sow certainly applies to the ACC now
that laughter in the background is Karma letting us all know that she's on top of it lol
best part is reading the various boards where fanbases want the ACC to remain intact as they know they may be fked.
Everything’s real until it isn’t
As of now the deficit is significant
If it’s not corrected soon, it’ll be catastrophically insurmountable
Until then, and even after, it’s about the standard - in Tallahassee, that’s championships
What we as fans can do is our part
Buying merch, tickets, contribute to Boosters & NIL
Support the various teams, watch them excel, keep building facilities, enhance the student athlete experience
You’re more valueable the more you keep winning. Mikes got a team this year. He’s got some dudes. Schedule lines up nice
As Bobby used to say…
First you lose big
Then you lose small
Then you win small
Then you win big
We’re at the latter stages now of that eumphism. The time to win is now
Do that, and everything else takes care of itself
Remember when some here were clamoring for Jim Philips to be the B1G commissioner because we don't know why?
It's not weird if you consider the pool of Rutgers' applicants, which are generally smarter due to better educations and went to better high schools than the kids in the southern public schools that apply UVa and University of No Classes.
Remember when BC said one thing about the Big East and pulled a Fredo?
2003
"We had a double agent among us."-- Syracuse chancellor Kenneth Shaw on Boston College's involvement in the Big East's restructuring discussions (The Daily Orange, SU student newspaper, Oct. 17, 2003)
2003
"This is a case that involves broken commitments, secret dealings, breaches of fiduciary responsibility, the misappropriations of conference opportunities and predatory attempts to eliminate competition."-- Pitt chancellor Mark Nordenberg on a joint lawsuit filed by Pitt, UConn, West Virginia, Virginia Tech and Rutgers and brought against the ACC and its two newest members, Boston College and Miami, formerly of the Big East (Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, July 1, 2003)
2003
"The whole scenario for me was uncomfortable, from the beginning. In my heart, from an integrity standpoint, I wasn't convinced it was the right thing to do, considering we were in a league and had made those commitments. I think Syracuse has had an approach that is fair and has tried to act with the kind of values that this institution is built on: honesty and integrity. So it's hard to me to say I was, from the start, comfortable with it."-- Syracuse football coach Paul Pasqualoni on the possibility of SU leaving the Big East and joining the ACC (Boston Globe, Oct. 14, 2003)
But those schools later joined forces with Fredo anyway.
Rutgers and Maryland now:
Wojciechowski: Same song, different tunes in Big East
The soon-to-be ex-Big East schools (Syracuse, Pitt, maybe UConn) were singing a different tune when other schools left for the ACC eight years ago.
you're both retarded and know not of which you speak. Northern bigotry is alive and well
Southern schools are just as good, lots of great private schools there too.
Rolling admissions kills that data set for Rutgers
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By that measure, the only applicants as smart as ours must be those to SUNY-Buffalo, which also has a 67% admission rate. By your logic, the kids in the midwest who apply to U. Michigan must be as dumb as those in the South -- Michigan's admission rate is 26%, about the same as UNC and U.VA. I think you should reconsider your position.
There was nothing wrong or bigoted about what I said. I explained why Rutgers' admission rate is so much higher than UNC's and UVa's, even though our students' credentials are just as good-many more kids want to go to UNC and UVa than want to come to Rutgers. That does not imply there's anything wrong with UNC or U.Va.-- quite the opposite. Nor does it imply there's anything wrong with those kids. If anyone's "retarded," it's ain't me.
That's quite a stretch. I was only talking about Virginia and NC. It was not meant to be a rule of general application.
I''m not sure why you think North Carolina and Virginia are so different from other places. UNC and UVA attract *lots* of our-of-state applicants, including plenty of kids from the North. That's why their admission numbers are comparable to Michigan's. Rutgers doesn't attract out of state applications; indeed, a fair number even of New Jersey high school students don't want to come here. As I said above, I've taught at one of those two schools, and I daresay their students are as smart and well-prepared as ours. I respectfully suggest that your view of these schools (and of the states they are in) is without foundation.
Oh really. I lived in North Carolina. That gives me some foundation. Their public school system, outside of pockets of areas, is not very good.
UNC's admission statistics SAT Scores someone support this:
North Carolinians
1340-1500Out-of-State Students
1400-1540
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That difference just reflects something that is true at most state universities -- that admissions requirements are tougher for out-of-state students. Its existence doesn't prove anything.
BTW, there are lots of states whose educational systems you could characterize the same way.
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A
anon_ivydyf0amkzay
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Psssssst…you’re getting in the way of some good ol northern bias…🤭🤣🤭
You evidently didn't read my response to @RUTGERS95:
"There was nothing wrong or bigoted about what I said. I explained why Rutgers' admission rate is so much higher than UNC's and UVa's, even though our students' credentials are just as good--many more kids want to go to UNC and UVa than want to come to Rutgers. That does not imply there's anything wrong with UNC or U.Va.-- quite the opposite. Nor does it imply there's anything wrong with those kids. If anyone's "retarded," it's ain't me."
you just further validated my retard comment. c'mon, you're better than this
Word is that the SEC is sticking with an 8 game conference schedule for a year, because ESPN is hesitant to pay them extra money for a 9 game schedule due to their financial problems and ongoing layoffs.
Hard to reconcile that with the idea ESPN would take ACC teams they get at a cheap price for another dozen years and instead orchestrate them getting into the SEC where they would have to pay them much more.
https://www.si.com/.amp/college/202...t-sec-spring-meetings-schedule-field-storming
Hard to reconcile that with the idea ESPN would take ACC teams they get at a cheap price for another dozen years and instead orchestrate them getting into the SEC where they would have to pay them much more.
https://www.si.com/.amp/college/202...t-sec-spring-meetings-schedule-field-storming
Quote from Stewart Mandel:
"Note that ESPN is balking at paying the SEC any more than they do now. That’s why I don’t assume these conferences will just keep adding more and more schools. The networks have a breaking point."
I have made this point many times. The networks don't need more content. Now I will be told that we are all going to streaming and they need lots of content. Well, show me where the streamers are spending money, and don't include streaming services owned by the networks who are just diverting some of their content.
"Note that ESPN is balking at paying the SEC any more than they do now. That’s why I don’t assume these conferences will just keep adding more and more schools. The networks have a breaking point."
I have made this point many times. The networks don't need more content. Now I will be told that we are all going to streaming and they need lots of content. Well, show me where the streamers are spending money, and don't include streaming services owned by the networks who are just diverting some of their content.
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