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Pacheco Getting Good Looks

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Jun 29, 2002
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“Kansas City Chiefs: Even on a team with three established veterans at his position, rookie running back Isiah Pacheco is getting good looks in training camp. Pacheco, a seventh-round draft pick, was the second back into the lineup in many drills behind Clyde Edwards-Helaire but ahead of Jerick McKinnon and Ronald Jones. The Chiefs also have Derrick Gore, who played well for them at times last season. A bigger test for Pacheco will come starting on Monday when the Chiefs practice in pads for the first time. -- Adam Teicher”

www.espn.com

Best of Saturday at NFL training camps: Matthew Stafford builds chemistry with new receiver, DK Metcalf returns

Big-name playmakers didn't disappoint and rookie wideouts managed to make their mark across the league. Check out the top videos and notes from the NFL on Saturday.
www.espn.com www.espn.com

Keep grinding IP.

GO RU
 
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Sports reporter Albert Breer of Sports Illustrated said Pacheco has been “lighting up” and compared him to Kareem Hunt
 
jtung230 said:
But he doesn’t run well. His form is unnatural.
Click to expand...

According to the coach in the video, it wont matter much because he's "not a 1 or 2 guy." He is seen as a blocker and special teams guy. He's starting at KO returner, and will be getting a shot at punts. If he can do those he'll have roster a spot (vs practice squad). Parcell's said returning punts "is the hardest thing to do in football" so its not like punt returners are a dime a dozen
 
wisr01 said:
Yes
Click to expand...
no... it was the offense as a whole... no passing threat.. so many defenders playing the run and run-blitzing every down.

not saying the OL was world beaters.. but with BL and RR and an OL who ended up largely in the NFL... Ds played the run heavily.. and we still grinded out first downs.. because the OL and RBs were execptional. And Teel could throw a bit... and soon would throw a lot and really punish and man coverage where they stacked against the run.

So, no.. our OL last year, and likely this year, will not be as good as that... but I do not know that they deserve all the blame. I think there is a lot of blame to go around.. from QB and skils guys up to the OC box and back down to the OL.

KC also has a QB who is a real threat on every down.. someone who always has the attention of the defense.. that will help any KC RB... especially an outlet pass-catching RB who can see the no-look pass coming... and catch it.
 
GoodOl'Rutgers said:
no... it was the offense as a whole... no passing threat.. so many defenders playing the run and run-blitzing every down.

not saying the OL was world beaters.. but with BL and RR and an OL who ended up largely in the NFL... Ds played the run heavily.. and we still grinded out first downs.. because the OL and RBs were execptional. And Teel could throw a bit... and soon would throw a lot and really punish and man coverage where they stacked against the run.

So, no.. our OL last year, and likely this year, will not be as good as that... but I do not know that they deserve all the blame. I think there is a lot of blame to go around.. from QB and skils guys up to the OC box and back down to the OL.

KC also has a QB who is a real threat on every down.. someone who always has the attention of the defense.. that will help any KC RB... especially an outlet pass-catching RB who can see the no-look pass coming... and catch it.
Click to expand...
My most memorable stat from last year.
After Cruickshank went down the passing game just vanished
There were more TDs/Yds vs OSU and the Michigans in first half of season
Defenses just had to watch Melton and not Melton and Cruickshank.
Together they were imposing pair
But only 1 passing TD the last 5 games

2RayeoE.jpg
 
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GoodOl'Rutgers said:
no... it was the offense as a whole... no passing threat.. so many defenders playing the run and run-blitzing every down.

not saying the OL was world beaters.. but with BL and RR and an OL who ended up largely in the NFL... Ds played the run heavily.. and we still grinded out first downs.. because the OL and RBs were execptional. And Teel could throw a bit... and soon would throw a lot and really punish and man coverage where they stacked against the run.

So, no.. our OL last year, and likely this year, will not be as good as that... but I do not know that they deserve all the blame. I think there is a lot of blame to go around.. from QB and skils guys up to the OC box and back down to the OL.

KC also has a QB who is a real threat on every down.. someone who always has the attention of the defense.. that will help any KC RB... especially an outlet pass-catching RB who can see the no-look pass coming... and catch it.
Click to expand...
Nobody said it was the only reason. Football Outsiders ranked our line 103rd last year. Against Temple (121st rush defense) our RBs had 36-124. Our OL was bad and the most telling info is that Greg went out and got a whole new OL through transfers.
 
wisr01 said:
Nobody said it was the only reason. Football Outsiders ranked our line 103rd last year. Against Temple (121st rush defense) our RBs had 36-124. Our OL was bad and the most telling info is that Greg went out and got a whole new OL through transfers.
Click to expand...
@jtung230 suggested.. and you agreed, that Pacheco's "success" in KC preseason camp indicates how bad our OL was. You are both blaming Pacheco's output last year on the OL. Neither of you indicated it was NOT the only reason. So I added some context. BTW, while 3 starting OL (as of now) are new, half the 2-deep are from last year. Also not sure how many OL graduated or transfered.
 
GoodOl'Rutgers said:
@jtung230 suggested.. and you agreed, that Pacheco's "success" in KC preseason camp indicates how bad our OL was. You are both blaming Pacheco's output last year on the OL. Neither of you indicated it was NOT the only reason. So I added some context. BTW, while 3 starting OL (as of now) are new, half the 2-deep are from last year. Also not sure how many OL graduated or transfered.
Click to expand...
I didn’t suggest. I stated. You can’t run an offense when your OL can’t block. Simple as that. If OL play doesn’t improve, it’ll be another long year.
 
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jtung230 said:
I didn’t suggest. I stated. You can run an offense when your OL can’t block. Simple as that. If OL play doesn’t improve, it’ll be another long year.
Click to expand...
What, I think, you guys miss.. or comepletely ignore or discount, is that.. just like an RB's performance can be affected by the OL.. the OL's performance can be affected by other factors.

Now, it is arguable whether the passing game was crap because of Cruicksank going down or QB play or OC not making adjusments to talent level... or you just just say it was the OL not providing time. But we all saw cases where, with ample time, we still failed in the pass game.

To me, it was like a scale tipping.. even a minor issue in passing can be leveraged to make it a HUGE issue... and it was. No fear of the passing game meant lots of blitzes.. no fear of having DBs in man coverage.. lots of room to get creative with stunts and blitzes... which resulted in stuffed runs and QB pressure and sacks.

We failed to address that the entire year and it got WORSE as the year wore on. And while you can blame the OL for not being good enough, I think their job was made much harder because of other factors. No.. they were not good enough to overcome that.

There are plenty of games between non-P5 teams and P5 teams where the OL is overmatched.. but some of them execute a quick passing game well enough to keep the D guessing so they cannot just load up and stuff them on every down. Then again.. we also see games like this where the inferior team cannot move the ball at all. But it is not on the OL alone.

And if we do not take steps to get around talent disparities on the OL or elsewhere, yeah, it will be a long season because there is a lot of talent in the B1G TEN.. especially in the East. Gameplanning.. Xs and Os.. and practice of plays that can work vs superior talent... execution must be perfect. That CAN be done... but will it?

On a side note (this whole line of discussion is a side not not about Pacheco).. every time we look to change coaches we all think about those guys at top schools.. DC, OC, etc... maybe we should start by looking at teh coaches from lesser schools who overcame talent disparities to beat the big guys... because it will be a long while.. if ever.. where we have equal or superior talent to the top teams.
 
GoodOl'Rutgers said:
What, I think, you guys miss.. or comepletely ignore or discount, is that.. just like an RB's performance can be affected by the OL.. the OL's performance can be affected by other factors.

Now, it is arguable whether the passing game was crap because of Cruicksank going down or QB play or OC not making adjusments to talent level... or you just just say it was the OL not providing time. But we all saw cases where, with ample time, we still failed in the pass game.

To me, it was like a scale tipping.. even a minor issue in passing can be leveraged to make it a HUGE issue... and it was. No fear of the passing game meant lots of blitzes.. no fear of having DBs in man coverage.. lots of room to get creative with stunts and blitzes... which resulted in stuffed runs and QB pressure and sacks.

We failed to address that the entire year and it got WORSE as the year wore on. And while you can blame the OL for not being good enough, I think their job was made much harder because of other factors. No.. they were not good enough to overcome that.

There are plenty of games between non-P5 teams and P5 teams where the OL is overmatched.. but some of them execute a quick passing game well enough to keep the D guessing so they cannot just load up and stuff them on every down. Then again.. we also see games like this where the inferior team cannot move the ball at all. But it is not on the OL alone.

And if we do not take steps to get around talent disparities on the OL or elsewhere, yeah, it will be a long season because there is a lot of talent in the B1G TEN.. especially in the East. Gameplanning.. Xs and Os.. and practice of plays that can work vs superior talent... execution must be perfect. That CAN be done... but will it?

On a side note (this whole line of discussion is a side not not about Pacheco).. every time we look to change coaches we all think about those guys at top schools.. DC, OC, etc... maybe we should start by looking at teh coaches from lesser schools who overcame talent disparities to beat the big guys... because it will be a long while.. if ever.. where we have equal or superior talent to the top teams.
Click to expand...
Part of the problem was that the OCs at that time either had no offensive identity or couldn't teach the fundamentals of whatever system they were trying to run. Coaches whose teams overcome talent disparities to beat more talented opposition are always better fundamentally.
 
Do you ever hear anything bad about players at this time? No.
Unless they are out of shape or are mental case.
They want to be able to trade him so everything is going to be positive.
He has to make the roster. Until then, it's all BS talk.
 
kapyoche said:
Do you ever hear anything bad about players at this time? No.
Unless they are out of shape or are mental case.
They want to be able to trade him so everything is going to be positive.
He has to make the roster. Until then, it's all BS talk.
Click to expand...

There are also players where you don't hear anything at all. They were in the old first cut down group.
 
GoodOl'Rutgers said:
What, I think, you guys miss.. or comepletely ignore or discount, is that.. just like an RB's performance can be affected by the OL.. the OL's performance can be affected by other factors.

Now, it is arguable whether the passing game was crap because of Cruicksank going down or QB play or OC not making adjusments to talent level... or you just just say it was the OL not providing time. But we all saw cases where, with ample time, we still failed in the pass game.

To me, it was like a scale tipping.. even a minor issue in passing can be leveraged to make it a HUGE issue... and it was. No fear of the passing game meant lots of blitzes.. no fear of having DBs in man coverage.. lots of room to get creative with stunts and blitzes... which resulted in stuffed runs and QB pressure and sacks.

We failed to address that the entire year and it got WORSE as the year wore on. And while you can blame the OL for not being good enough, I think their job was made much harder because of other factors. No.. they were not good enough to overcome that.

There are plenty of games between non-P5 teams and P5 teams where the OL is overmatched.. but some of them execute a quick passing game well enough to keep the D guessing so they cannot just load up and stuff them on every down. Then again.. we also see games like this where the inferior team cannot move the ball at all. But it is not on the OL alone.

And if we do not take steps to get around talent disparities on the OL or elsewhere, yeah, it will be a long season because there is a lot of talent in the B1G TEN.. especially in the East. Gameplanning.. Xs and Os.. and practice of plays that can work vs superior talent... execution must be perfect. That CAN be done... but will it?

On a side note (this whole line of discussion is a side not not about Pacheco).. every time we look to change coaches we all think about those guys at top schools.. DC, OC, etc... maybe we should start by looking at teh coaches from lesser schools who overcame talent disparities to beat the big guys... because it will be a long while.. if ever.. where we have equal or superior talent to the top teams.
Click to expand...
I’ll agree with part of this. QB play can have direct impact on OL (and RB) play.
 
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kapyoche said:
Do you ever hear anything bad about players at this time? No.
Unless they are out of shape or are mental case.
They want to be able to trade him so everything is going to be positive.
He has to make the roster. Until then, it's all BS talk.
Click to expand...
He is getting a lot of first team reps and is being touted as the biggest surprise in camp by EVERY single outlet and this is your take? GTFOH
 
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jtung230 said:
I’ll agree with part of this. QB play can have direct impact on OL (and RB) play.
Click to expand...
How about this angle... can you think of any college RBs who ran behind great OLs.. who couldn't do much in the NFL? And that is top talent that professional evaluators CHOSE and PAID.. based on their professional analysis.

Sure, there are cases where everyone looks at a player and say, yeah, he's going be something.. on every level such things happen and the "common knowledge" is mostly correct.. but even then.. not always.

Remember how many Rutgers QBs would light it up in preseason play only to struggle in live play? Many of them with better OL than the last years too. There is just so many variables.

This is all pretty complex stuff... how a team ends up playing.. even stacked teams can struggle and often that ends up being all the non-physical-talent issues that come into play.

Schiano put it all together once before.. and when he has a full team of his kind of players maybe the non-physical-talent issues will come together better and then we can se somehting really good. But I think we hope he can do this magic earlier than that.. with transfers this time. Just remember, the transfers did not learn everything in college in Schiano's way. Remember what happened when he went to Tampa Bay and the players.. and local media.. rebelled. They were just uncoachable by any kind of "my-way" coach.
 
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