Pike is the best coach in league
- Thread starter RUinSC
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He's not done yet. A surprise (to some) may be brewing on Tuesday night at the RAC ... and the one after that may then get a lot easier for the team in Scarlet ...
I don't know about the best. But I will say I have not been this confident in a men's BB coach as I am with Pikiell since we were in the NCAA's going back to 1991. The man can flat out coach. And I love his staff too. Bright days ahead.
Let's settle down here.
I am a huge Pikiell fan and only playing Devils advocate!!!!!!
1. We have 2 wins with our signature win being Nebraska or Penn State
2. We have no evidence he can recruit.
3. Total amateur hour at the end of the 1st half. Having Sanders and Freeman foul AND doing it way too early!?!
4. Although improving, the offense is statistically worse under Pikiell compared to Jordan
Again devils advocate. I really like the guy. I think he MIGHT be the one. Can't say he IS the one.
I am a huge Pikiell fan and only playing Devils advocate!!!!!!
1. We have 2 wins with our signature win being Nebraska or Penn State
2. We have no evidence he can recruit.
3. Total amateur hour at the end of the 1st half. Having Sanders and Freeman foul AND doing it way too early!?!
4. Although improving, the offense is statistically worse under Pikiell compared to Jordan
Again devils advocate. I really like the guy. I think he MIGHT be the one. Can't say he IS the one.
The can't recruit evidence is a larger/systemic item that is in relation to the rest of the B1G....are we going to land 3 to 4 consecutive classes of kids that are B1G caliber or are we asking for an unrealistic haul of recruits right away (2018)
The numbers across the board on defensive efficiency, rebounding, and other stats that don't typically show up (boxing out, deflections on defense, positional defense) are all better.
RU will be significantly better once we have a mobile PF/C that can keep up with the faster/athletic bigs we play across the conference. I believe if the staff can find a Getty's in less than 4-6 months time and he was pretty much considered a non-factor because of his stats at UNCW (5PPG, lot of foul trouble), that whatever pieces we bring in as a grad transfer, JUCO or 2017 recruit will make sense or help the program.....
Not every recruit will turn into a home run or immediate starter, but can that player contribute in "situational" basketball.....There are so many items we can shore up defensively with more athletic players that we are missing, that will make RU extremely difficult to deal with down the road.
I also think (know) that we are not giving enough credit for the overall staff (Young, Hobbs, Knight, etc)....this type of improvement isn't all isolated to Pike, you have to have able/experienced assistants to make this type of transformation happen so quickly. The true key is keeping this staff in place for another season to allow the next steps to be taken this spring/summer in recruiting and with development. If that happens and we are able to upgrade the talent in 2017 & 2018 recruiting, then we have a legit chance to get out of the bottom quarter of the conference and into an spot of sold out RAC games and start springing upsets to turn the corner.
Yes,Pikiell and staff have shown their coaching prowess but in big time college athletics recruiting is what separates the winners from the losers.Successful programs attract players that perform on a high level on both offense and defense and that is what sustains the winning.Bottom line Rutgers needs shooters and until they get them ,deep disappointment will continue and all the positive talk regarding coaching will quickly disappear.Long suffering Rutgers fans have seen the challenge of climbing out of the abyss of mediocrity with only minor blips of success.
well when you're up 20, (or 40 or 50) you tend to quit playing D, and you're playing the bench, inflating Rutgers offensive numbers last year. imo
I think he's a very fine coach----he and the staff need to bring in better players no big surprise there.
That will determine the progress of the Program going forward.
Remember if you're going to climb in the standings someone has to lose.
The reachable teams at this point PSU , Nebraska , Illinois and Iowa have a leg up at this point because they have a lot of good young guys and may be better next year. Illinois incoming class currently ranked 12th nationally .
No one wants to hear it but folks are going to have to be patient. This is a 4 year rebuild.
That will determine the progress of the Program going forward.
Remember if you're going to climb in the standings someone has to lose.
The reachable teams at this point PSU , Nebraska , Illinois and Iowa have a leg up at this point because they have a lot of good young guys and may be better next year. Illinois incoming class currently ranked 12th nationally .
No one wants to hear it but folks are going to have to be patient. This is a 4 year rebuild.
convenient excuse....but forgetting a comparison to Jordan look at the numbers compared to other teams this year. In B1G games ONLY we are #14 in offensive efficiency. .881 points per possession. #13 is .967 #12 is .997 and #11 is 1.028
Thought those were good fouls at the end of 1st half, reduced time left for MI to score to a few seconds.
Michigan is in that list. Irvin and Walton are seniors. They played 6 guys last night which tells me something.
no just being double devil's advocate lol
And also, one thing I was thinking about, the effort RU plays on D has got to have some affect on the O (and maybe even foul shooting)...lot of energy expended playing D this year. Last year? not so much.
And also, one thing I was thinking about, the effort RU plays on D has got to have some affect on the O (and maybe even foul shooting)...lot of energy expended playing D this year. Last year? not so much.
the biggest misconception is that this year's team plays harder. Ask Mike Williams if playing the 3 or 4 spot last year was easier than playing the 2 this year.
THERE IS ZERO DOUBT THIS YEAR'S TEAM PLAYS HARDER. But yes...Williams playing 6'8'' guys was taxing.
It is possible that the lineups we had to throw out on the court because of injuries increased offense, but crushed us defensively.
Personally i am not a fan of the allocation of touches AND the general mission of the offense. Maybe I am overrating the skills of our bigs and underestimating the impact of a 30 second shot clock.
You are wrong regarding the fouling at the end of the first half. The mistake was on Freeman for fouling someone shooting a three as time was expiring. Luckily he missed two of three.
I don't get the continual negative posts from you on the Coach. Yes, he still has a lot to prove having not even completed one season yet plus he needs to demonstrate he can recruit. But if you can't see there is significant improvement from prior years, you either are not watching or have an agenda for which improvement doesn't fit.
Pike is the face of the coaching staff so he tends to get the credit. I agree with you we have a very good staff.
1. Should have the bench fouling and not starters.
2. I am a huge fan of Pikiell. Not continual negative posts...just playing devil's advocate...that's all
Hopefully we are willing to pay his assistants to keep them here
I love Pikiell but I can't say he's the best coach in the league that has a top 10 all time coach still coaching with Izzo.
Agree with 1. to a point. Both Sanders and Freeman had zero fouls at that stage and both then would've gone in with just one a piece if not for Freeman's bad foul on the three.
agree and you know what, there are ALOT of good to great coaches in this year. Pike to me is the in good catagory until he wins games...much like Chambers and Miles who similarly do well with little talent but even those two have not won at a high level in conference. I think our fans have been so used to bad basketball that when they see competitive basketball, they feel they are seeing Coach K....and I am not slamming Pike. I love him. He is good coach. Just what this program needs and if he can recruit this program will take off. I just think our fans tend to go overboard a little bit.
Little Ricky took a team with 8 wins to 21 wins in one season...had a solid base who lost alot of close games but then added a top 25 class and look what happened. That is a great example of coaching. Doug Collins has moved Northwestern up incremently every year taking a bunch of so so talented players and has them on the cusp of their first NCAA tourney.
Izzo and Beilein are masterminds. Matta, Turgeron, and Crean. even though some will say they underacheive have the credentials that say otherwise. McCaffery does more with less at Iowa and doing pretty good with a bunch of freshmen this year. Gard has kept the Wisky system churning without missing a beat after Ryan left. The only coach that has underacheived and not accomplished anything is Groce who may or may not be canned based on how his Illini finish
The grade is incomplete. 3 years ago at this time I already wrote off Jordan. The fact that he took over the 2015-16 team and turned them in to a NCAA tournament caliber D (looking at kenpom) is close to a miracle.
3 things I need to see that tells me he is the answer (as opposed to right now that he could be the answer)
1. make strides offensively...we are still shockingly bad, but actually showing signs of improving
2. recruit...with this it is going to take time. My watch starts with next year's class
3. will players continue to compete hard in Years 2,3 and 4. It is all new and players have bought in. Will the same effort be there when things aren't new. He is a player's coach and I REALLY want to see it work.
Let me restate the defensive strides have been enormous. I would have given 100 to 1 odds we would be #61 in the country in defensive efficiency and in the middle of the pack in the B1G in B1G games only.
3 things I need to see that tells me he is the answer (as opposed to right now that he could be the answer)
1. make strides offensively...we are still shockingly bad, but actually showing signs of improving
2. recruit...with this it is going to take time. My watch starts with next year's class
3. will players continue to compete hard in Years 2,3 and 4. It is all new and players have bought in. Will the same effort be there when things aren't new. He is a player's coach and I REALLY want to see it work.
Let me restate the defensive strides have been enormous. I would have given 100 to 1 odds we would be #61 in the country in defensive efficiency and in the middle of the pack in the B1G in B1G games only.
remember Mike Rice's first year and how well they competed and we all thought we were on the right path....15-16. Now listen I believe Pike is better than Rice in alot of ways. Comparing it though, Rice brought in a very good class for his 2nd year and got mixed results for two years as the team did not buy in all the time. You make a good point...will the next group of players in year 3 and 4 buy into it like Pike's first years team did. When you recruit at a higher level of talent, the ego stroking needs to be increased. Pike is a good coach, we see that but there are pitfalls to overcome as better talent comes in
Big hopeful difference between Rice and Pikiell--I don't expect Pikes to lose his three best leaders like Mike did. An upper class team will help continue to lay the foundation.
I looked at history.
defensive efficiency rankings
FHJ last year 169th
Rice Year 1 81st
Rice year 2 60th
Rice year 3 148th
Very interesting to see the team get a year older and have such a drop off defensively in Rice's last year. Maybe we cjhalk them up to the turmoil surrounding the team....or it could just be the freshman getting to comfortable (with minutes and other things) turning in to sophomores. Or dropoff from biruta to Judge?
defensive efficiency rankings
FHJ last year 169th
Rice Year 1 81st
Rice year 2 60th
Rice year 3 148th
Very interesting to see the team get a year older and have such a drop off defensively in Rice's last year. Maybe we cjhalk them up to the turmoil surrounding the team....or it could just be the freshman getting to comfortable (with minutes and other things) turning in to sophomores. Or dropoff from biruta to Judge?
I would say from the ego stroking perspective that Coach P is well served by this staff as K Hobbs must be familiar with that aspect from UConn and B Knight from Pitt.
Rice's staff had Rice from Pitt and Cox from Georgetown.
Totally disagree with #3. We had several fouls to give and he was right to have them foul. What was a brainfart however, was Freeman fouling that kid from behind the arc although personally, it didn't look like he even touched the kid. But that was the right move to use up your fouls to run down the clock. That was not too early. It's called good coaching and strategy.
Replay showed he did run into the player. Initial mistake is no one accounted for the player throwing the ball in bounds giving him a clear shot.
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Then I'm mistaken. From the angle I saw, he didn't touch him. Still, that's not on Pikiell. Freeman needs to use his head there.
That honor goes to MSU's coach, he has the ring.
But yea, Pike is a total stud. His staff is absolutely top notch too.
But yea, Pike is a total stud. His staff is absolutely top notch too.
It did depend on the angle. I first thought it should have been no call until I saw the second replay. I would put the bad play more on the person who was guarding the inbounder and lost track of the player.
Another example of posters wanting to give coaches credit for things they have not yet done. Previous examples include Kyle Flood and Chis Ash. I am a huge supporter of Coach P., but based on actual accomplishment, he is somewhere around the 14th best coach in the Big Ten.
During last nights game I saw something at the end of the first half to highlight the coach's value. Both in basketball and football under Flood.. I have gotten used to seeing coaching opportunities to do something smart with the game clock, field position, etc.. seeing those opportunities missed.
Pike's head is definitely IN THE GAME, IN THE MOMENT.
We got a good one. I hope recruits see it the same way.
Pike's head is definitely IN THE GAME, IN THE MOMENT.
We got a good one. I hope recruits see it the same way.
^^^ This. I had to explain to my non-super-basketball-savy friends why we were fouling at the end .. as I was explaining I couldn't believe it either. Just not used to seeing Rutgers coaches do these smart things.
Improvement is obvious. That being said please stop with this "best coach in the league". He has a lot to prove and it has to start with not just improving on what we have, but recruiting and actually winning some league games. Pike is good and maybe very good but the top coach in the Big 10 starts and ends here.
Now in his 22nd year, Tom Izzo has compiled an impressive list of accomplishments, including the 2000 NCAA National Championship, seven regular-season Big Ten Championships, five Big Ten Tournament titles, seven Final Four appearances, eight National Coach of the Year awards and a Big Ten-record 19 straight NCAA Tournament appearances.
Now in his 22nd year, Tom Izzo has compiled an impressive list of accomplishments, including the 2000 NCAA National Championship, seven regular-season Big Ten Championships, five Big Ten Tournament titles, seven Final Four appearances, eight National Coach of the Year awards and a Big Ten-record 19 straight NCAA Tournament appearances.
Best point in the thread was about how there were similar reactions to other coaches this early in their tenures, with disaster unforeseen but, to us, inevitable. I am a big fan of this coach, but I won't even put him in the middle of the pack until there is some more evidence.
But damn it feels good to not be embarrassed by the product on the floor. (How's THAT for a low bar?)
But damn it feels good to not be embarrassed by the product on the floor. (How's THAT for a low bar?)
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